What if they removed classes entirely and just left the skill trees?
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoLet's look at this a different way, Classes exist because it's easier to Balance Classes, since their entire kit is in a bubble. Remove that bubble and it will be much harder to Balance, probably impossible.
Zos already has a hard time balancing the Classes as is. Removing the Barrier between classes will only lead to even more drastic sledgehammer balance passes.
This is another good point. When we look at how much choice we have in ESO and we see how challenged Zenimax is to balance the game we can easily see that providing absolute "choice" would create even more balancing issues. We know this because what overperforms is what players use more which leads to nerfs. The game would become more volatile and since we would have fewer builds (as most players interested in performance will use the best skills) we would have to change our builds more often.
Since classes are a core part of the game's design and the leading developers were part of the core team that chose the design I think we can rest easy that classes will remain in the game.0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesYes but it is too late now.
Players got used to classes and they love their babies. There is no way they will agree to get rid of it now.
But it would be a better game without classes. It would be easier to balance it, would require less alts and less grinding.
Just look at WW and Vampirism, do you think they need to be classes? of course not it doesn't make sense!, but same could go for other classes.
Anyway the way classes are designed hurts us, when a class is nerfed beyond unplayable you have no options but bail it and start a new class over or take long break from the game.
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Mesite✭✭✭✭NoI remember going from Skyrim to ESO and being surprised there were classes. I would be interested to know if any other game has ever removed classes. And how it was received0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesAfter pushing hybrisation damage and healing(PvP) went through the roof. Guess what will happen when ppl will be able to pick 3 strong skill lines...
First of all the skill lines wouldn't be the ones you have today. There are lots of duplicated skills just to make the classes work.
Second of all some skill lines could be marked incompatible with another, same as Vampirism and WW currently work.
For example you could have Holy healing line and Dark healing line, and they won't heal when applied simultaneously.
Or take the necromancy skill line for example, it would be a very powerful skill line but incompatible with most of other heals, if players chooses to play the necromancy line they will be basically on their own, perfectly in line with the necromancy roleplaying.
Telling ya, a classless system would be so much better and creative.
A class is nothing more than a developer's vision on how the class should be played and we just play them as designed, take the templars for example, most of the players play it following the "This is my house" concept just because a developer thought so.1 -
francesinhalover✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yesoh hell yeah, i would use nightblades spammable mixed with my sorcerer abilities, maybe also add fire attacks, it would be amazing.
Id be a walking rainbow of awesomenessEdited by francesinhalover on June 3, 2022 5:38PMI am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!1 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesOreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Balance would become impossible, build diversity would cease to exist. Classes exist for a good reason.
What build diversity do we have now?
Battlegrounds are 75% mDKs now.
And I disagree on balance, it would be easier to balance it. They would balance individual skills without destroying a class.
Right now the balance is a mess, they either overbuff a class (like they did it with mDKs) or they nerf them beyond unplayable (like mag warden is I hear).1 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yesfrancesinhalover wrote: »oh hell yeah, i would use nightblades spammable mixed with my sorcerer abilities, maybe also add fire attacks, it would be amazing.
Id be a walking rainbow of awesomeness
Lol if only you would have 12 skill slots on the bar instead of 50 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yesphaneub17_ESO wrote: »We're already pretty close to the point where everyone is using the same skills everywhere else beyond non-class skills, opening it all up to everyone would push diversity out the window and into the trash heap.
But it is opened to everyone. If a certain combo is way overpowered then all the players switch classes and uses that combo. And the moment the combo is nerfed the class is being shelfed.
As result we players pay the price, and the price being the grind time.0 -
Mesite✭✭✭✭No
Why it is a no then? Didn't you enjoy the skyrim classless concept more?
Skyrim was awesome. And I didn't use the pre-generated classes for TES3 or TES4 as I chose skills. But when I play ESO I identify with the classes. If they hadn't had classes I wouldn't have had so many different characters , or so much variety, and I wouldn't still be enjoying it. I still create new toons, even now.2 -
Parasaurolophus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoHonestly... Classes are one of the things that make eso feel a little different from other parts of the TES series. I definitely wouldn't want to see classes in any other TES RPGs. But alas, such things should be planned at the earliest stages of development and not break the game 8 years after the release. Just deal with it. This will not happen as there will be no open world pvp or flying mounts. Or a vet.overland...PC/EU0 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoYou remove Classes and you just get more complicated New World, which is not a super great experienceAltoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup0 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoCame from an MMO where that was actually a thing, the results were as follows
15 viable builds to tank in end game content
7 viable builds to crowd control in end game content
35 viable builds to deal damage in end game content
11 viable builds to make a healer in end game content
But given a chance all players will optimize the fun out of a game if given the option to do so, even if they are not doing it willingly
As a result
of the 15 tanks, only 1 was ever used
of the 7 CC, only 1 was ever used
of the 35 DPS, only 1 was ever used
of the 11 healers, only 1 was ever used
Why? simple, those builds that dominated all the others did their job ~1% better than any of the other options on the board, it's why all the tanks used str/con/rec builds with defiance and cleave
it's why all the crows control builds used ego/rec/dex with ego storm and ego sleep
it's why all the dps players used dex/int/rec with lighting ball and lighting arc
it's why all the healers used pre/rec/con with serephrim and conduit
tl;dr without class restrictions players will make 1 super meta build per role and everything else wouldn't be touched1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoThe illusion of choice is not really a choice at all. Not to mention the balancing burden that would be placed on those directing the game.
People like to think it would enrich the experience but all it would do is place additional scrutiny under problematic outliers regarding what is "meta" while simultaneously making it a nightmare to balance.
This is not a single player role playing game, it is an mmorpg and certain measures of control need to be in place no matter how much you want it to be skyrim with friends.Edited by exeeter702 on June 3, 2022 9:13PM1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoYes but it is too late now.
Players got used to classes and they love their babies. There is no way they will agree to get rid of it now.
But it would be a better game without classes. It would be easier to balance it, would require less alts and less grinding.
Just look at WW and Vampirism, do you think they need to be classes? of course not it doesn't make sense!, but same could go for other classes.
Anyway the way classes are designed hurts us, when a class is nerfed beyond unplayable you have no options but bail it and start a new class over or take long break from the game.
No it wouldnt. I find it naive to assume that question wasnt raised by the early dev team when the game was in its design idea phase. They opted to go the class route for a number of very important reasons.Edited by exeeter702 on June 3, 2022 9:24PM1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoI don't think it would be very much fun. Pretty sure everyone would use one "meta build to rule them all" - maybe one build each for tank, healer, and dps.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesTo go around the tendency to create just one build for a certain role, every skill would as well need skills to counter or disable them. In EVE it works fine, because there are counter-measure and counter-counter-measure modules, where you are able to negate the impact of a certain build meta and make it rather useless (if you know beforehand, that the enemy will bring this kind of builds to the battlefield). That there is a way in EVE, to counter pretty much any meta build to the point, that it would be nearly useless, creates a balance, because there is no build which would be victorious in every given scenario.
ESO's skill lines lack effective counter and counter-counter measures - and that is why there are meta builds, which work most of the time. Balancing such a system is difficult and has to be done very carefully - given the history how ZOS is handling balance, I would not bet a dime on that it would be done with care and gradually. Balancing a game is a difficult job and ZOS doesn't have a history of being able to fine-tune it - they use a sledgehammer instead - so better leave it at classes.Edited by Lysette on June 4, 2022 12:21AM0 -
AvalonRanger✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not sureNot bad idea though, then how to find out building style of your group team mate?
Damage shield design will not prove decent tank instantly.My playing time Mon-Friday UTC13:00-16:00 [PC-NA] CP over2000 now.
I have [1Tough tank] [1StamSorc-DD] [1Necro-DD] [1Real Healer]
with [1Stam Blade].
But, I'm Tank main player. Recently I'm doing Healer.
2023/12/21
By the way...Dungeon-Meshi(One of Famous Japanese fantasy story comic book) got finale...
Good-bye "King of Monster Eater".
2024/08/23
Farewell Atsuko Tanaka...(-_-) I never forget epic acting for major Motoko Kusanagi.0 -
Uvi_AUT✭✭✭✭✭NoI would leave. I hate nothing more than those "one size fits all" carebear-mmos.
The game is way too homogenic as it is. with everyone uses the same playstyle (dot on ground, keep buff up, LAweave).
With no classes everyone would use the same skills too. At least now its a little bit different, even if the difference between classes is mostly cosmetic.Edited by Uvi_AUT on June 4, 2022 8:37AMRegistered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....1 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoI built my characters around their class. It would be no fun if that was taken away. Yes I could choose to stay the same class but for any character where I'm doing harder content I would probably end up moving to the "best" thing.
AwA already ruined a lot of the fun of having alts, to me this would be the last straw.
I would be ok with a class change being available for people who want it, though.0 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoOreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Balance would become impossible, build diversity would cease to exist. Classes exist for a good reason.
This ^ and besides combat being completely broken, removing class identity would hurt a lot of the RP aspect of the game as well.0