Sorry to hear, been there and dealt with Guilds like that. Keep looking and you will find a good one. I bet in 6 months that guild will be long gone, most of them that treat people like that never last long.

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I think a player should always be given a reason for a kick. It doesn't have to be a long detailed conversation but something. This is just the right thing to do and may help the player correct whatever behavior led to the kick in the future.

This is just asking for conflict though.

I disagree. It's basic human decency imo. It doesn't need to be detailed but something should be stated. You can just block the person afterwards if you don't want to hear back from them. But leaving them to second guess themselves and be upset and confused, because of the guild leadership's fear of confrontation is just disrespectful imo.

Mr_Stach wrote: »

If you get triggered and upset when someone tells you that you weren't vibing with the rest of the group, the problem may be you.

Just Sayin. Communication is kind of an Essential Portion of an MMO Community

(Not Saying this is what happened here to OP)

Being upset about losing contact with someone you thought you were on friendly terms with is pretty normal human emotion.

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I think a player should always be given a reason for a kick. It doesn't have to be a long detailed conversation but something. This is just the right thing to do and may help the player correct whatever behavior led to the kick in the future.

This is just asking for conflict though.

Say you have a player threatening guild members. You kick them. In no way whatsoever should you continue to have conversations with this person. You shouldn't have to teach someone to not be a problem.

Also, this is a video game. I am not a GM of a guild, but if I were, it is not my job to teach people how to interact with other people. I am not a councilor.

It seems clear if the person has obvious extreme negative behavior they will already know why they were kicked so in the situation being described there is no reason for further interaction. I do not think Silver expects such obvious interactions to need further explanation.

And even then, guild leadership can just ignore any further communication from the former member which would prevent guild leadership from fueling any conflict. If the former member begins harassing the guild and/or members then it becomes an issue for Zenimax, but this escalation into harassment would likely happen regardless.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

If this is true I would have thought that actually is against the terms of service. It's racism.

Well, it's a type of bigotry yes( which racism could arguably fall under) but not racism. I suppose I COULD have reported it if I had bothered to get proof or official statements from others and possibly forced my way back into the guild...

A player cannot force their way back into a guild. ZoS will not make any guild have any player for a member that they do not want.

Zos won't force a person into a guild. But the can and have forcibly dismantled guilds.

There must have been something pretty egregious going on in those guilds. o_O

jaws343 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I’m a little surprised with how many people are backing up the GM who kicked OP. Of course they had some reason, but it doesn’t excuse the absolute lack of communication with OP about whatever they deemed to be the issue. I was in a similar situation where I was suddenly kicked from a guild I loved, and it took a lot of asking to hear what the reason was. Thought these people were my friends, but in the end, it was a facade. The least they could have done was pull me aside and tell me to knock whatever I was doing off. The GM in this story could have done the same, but they took the most uncaring route. Reason or no reason, if there’s ZERO communication with the offender, it’s a scummy and low thing to kick them from a guild like that.

I've said it already, but I think people are failing to realize that sometimes (more often than not) that type of communication ends up making a situation worse. Sometimes it is best to just move on without confrontation, especially depending on the reasons for removal. Why make it worse by reaching out? There are plenty of guilds in the game, the kicked player can just move on, and the guild owes no-one anything.

I have strong opinions on this, so don't take it personally- its natural we're all going to have different points of view and come from different places.

The whole premise of Guilds is supposed to be about fostering community and belonging. And that means something to a lot of people. If you happily take on the power to kick, take on the decency to be fair. Integrity.

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I’m a little surprised with how many people are backing up the GM who kicked OP. Of course they had some reason, but it doesn’t excuse the absolute lack of communication with OP about whatever they deemed to be the issue. I was in a similar situation where I was suddenly kicked from a guild I loved, and it took a lot of asking to hear what the reason was. Thought these people were my friends, but in the end, it was a facade. The least they could have done was pull me aside and tell me to knock whatever I was doing off. The GM in this story could have done the same, but they took the most uncaring route. Reason or no reason, if there’s ZERO communication with the offender, it’s a scummy and low thing to kick them from a guild like that.

I've said it already, but I think people are failing to realize that sometimes (more often than not) that type of communication ends up making a situation worse. Sometimes it is best to just move on without confrontation, especially depending on the reasons for removal. Why make it worse by reaching out? There are plenty of guilds in the game, the kicked player can just move on, and the guild owes no-one anything.

I have strong opinions on this, so don't take it personally- its natural we're all going to have different points of view and come from different places.

The whole premise of Guilds is supposed to be about fostering community and belonging. And that means something to a lot of people. If you happily take on the power to kick, take on the decency to be fair. Integrity.

Part of the process of fostering community is removing people who are detrimental to the community.

There are caustic people in MMORPGs. There are people who cause drama in a guild. There are people who harass other players in the guild and outside of the guild.

As such there are times people do need to be removed and without hesitation or leadership is just allowing them to destroy that community they worked so hard to foster.

I have not read every post in this thread but unless the leadership of the guild that kicked them speaks up we have only heard one side of the story. We do not know what truly transpired. We should not judge the OP nor should we judge the guild that kicked them and our thoughts about this situation are not based on being fully informed.

Just saying this to truly put the situation into accurate perspective. I do hope the person that started this thread finds a guild that works for them.

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I’m a little surprised with how many people are backing up the GM who kicked OP. Of course they had some reason, but it doesn’t excuse the absolute lack of communication with OP about whatever they deemed to be the issue. I was in a similar situation where I was suddenly kicked from a guild I loved, and it took a lot of asking to hear what the reason was. Thought these people were my friends, but in the end, it was a facade. The least they could have done was pull me aside and tell me to knock whatever I was doing off. The GM in this story could have done the same, but they took the most uncaring route. Reason or no reason, if there’s ZERO communication with the offender, it’s a scummy and low thing to kick them from a guild like that.

I've said it already, but I think people are failing to realize that sometimes (more often than not) that type of communication ends up making a situation worse. Sometimes it is best to just move on without confrontation, especially depending on the reasons for removal. Why make it worse by reaching out? There are plenty of guilds in the game, the kicked player can just move on, and the guild owes no-one anything.

I have strong opinions on this, so don't take it personally- its natural we're all going to have different points of view and come from different places.

The whole premise of Guilds is supposed to be about fostering community and belonging. And that means something to a lot of people. If you happily take on the power to kick, take on the decency to be fair. Integrity.

Part of the process of fostering community is removing people who are detrimental to the community.

There are caustic people in MMORPGs. There are people who cause drama in a guild. There are people who harass other players in the guild and outside of the guild.

As such there are times people do need to be removed and without hesitation or leadership is just allowing them to destroy that community they worked so hard to foster.

I have not read every post in this thread but unless the leadership of the guild that kicked them speaks up we have only heard one side of the story. We do not know what truly transpired. We should not judge the OP nor should we judge the guild that kicked them and our thoughts about this situation are not based on being fully informed.

Just saying this to truly put the situation into accurate perspective. I do hope the person that started this thread finds a guild that works for them.

There are absolutely situations where someone should be kicked without question, warning, or further exchanges.

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I’m a little surprised with how many people are backing up the GM who kicked OP. Of course they had some reason, but it doesn’t excuse the absolute lack of communication with OP about whatever they deemed to be the issue. I was in a similar situation where I was suddenly kicked from a guild I loved, and it took a lot of asking to hear what the reason was. Thought these people were my friends, but in the end, it was a facade. The least they could have done was pull me aside and tell me to knock whatever I was doing off. The GM in this story could have done the same, but they took the most uncaring route. Reason or no reason, if there’s ZERO communication with the offender, it’s a scummy and low thing to kick them from a guild like that.

I've said it already, but I think people are failing to realize that sometimes (more often than not) that type of communication ends up making a situation worse. Sometimes it is best to just move on without confrontation, especially depending on the reasons for removal. Why make it worse by reaching out? There are plenty of guilds in the game, the kicked player can just move on, and the guild owes no-one anything.

I have strong opinions on this, so don't take it personally- its natural we're all going to have different points of view and come from different places.

The whole premise of Guilds is supposed to be about fostering community and belonging. And that means something to a lot of people. If you happily take on the power to kick, take on the decency to be fair. Integrity.

Part of the process of fostering community is removing people who are detrimental to the community.

There are caustic people in MMORPGs. There are people who cause drama in a guild. There are people who harass other players in the guild and outside of the guild.

As such there are times people do need to be removed and without hesitation or leadership is just allowing them to destroy that community they worked so hard to foster.

I have not read every post in this thread but unless the leadership of the guild that kicked them speaks up we have only heard one side of the story. We do not know what truly transpired. We should not judge the OP nor should we judge the guild that kicked them and our thoughts about this situation are not based on being fully informed.

Just saying this to truly put the situation into accurate perspective. I do hope the person that started this thread finds a guild that works for them.

There are absolutely situations where someone should be kicked without question, warning, or further exchanges.

Which is exactly what I said. Thanks

You could probably drop the attitude and get whatever it is you want to get across here just fine.

I originally wanted to restate my original argument to clarify that I'm not against kicking toxic people from guilds (which seems to be what you and the poster are reading from my response), but that there are plenty of other circumstances where a message would be the decent thing to do. I thought that would be unnecessary considering I wrote that just above, so was just agreeing with the aspect of your response I think is right.

jaws343 wrote: »

I've said it already, but I think people are failing to realize that sometimes (more often than not) that type of communication ends up making a situation worse. Sometimes it is best to just move on without confrontation, especially depending on the reasons for removal. Why make it worse by reaching out? There are plenty of guilds in the game, the kicked player can just move on, and the guild owes no-one anything.

Wow... wow wow... come on.
It's a just a matter of respect. And unless there is a real reason to show disrespect, everyone owes everyone respect by default.
Back when I was a GM I have kicked a few people and ALWAYS took the time to explain. Someone being incompatible with your group's culture is not necessarily a bad person. Typically, in spite of the guild being clearly advertised as "social" some people would prove to be motivated by competition and results. That is not a good fit for our guild but it makes a perfect recruit for a progression guild. Same goes for attitude towards minorities, humour, "stupid jokes", sharing of private life, etc... It's a matter of compatibility, not good or bad.
It DOES definitely help and make things better to explain that not fitting in one place does not mean not fitting anywhere. It's a matter of respect and everyone should take the time and effort to do it.