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Warden spammable

Wellsley
Wellsley
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I know, I know, another post to complain about the Warden, but there's so many for a good reason.

This class has so many problems that they have to be taken separately. Here I will talk about the spammable.

The animation. A bird because Cliff Racers were a big part of the "Morrowind Experience" was a bad idea.
The speed issue. What's the point of having such a slow, ranged and even melee skill when there's faster for both ?
There are other issues with this skill that players will want to talk about.

Warden deserves better. Dive should be replaced with another skill.
Ice stalactite would be a perfect spammable for Winter's Embrace. Netch tentacle, vine hit... There is so much potential and I'm sure everyone has lots of ideas.
  • joseayalac
    joseayalac
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    This rework would be much welcome! The current version of the spammable feels terrible to use!
  • jecks33
    jecks33
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    Those birds are cringe, I prefer to use the good old force pulse
    PC-EU
  • Wellsley
    Wellsley
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    jecks33 wrote: »
    Those birds are cringe, I prefer to use the good old force pulse

    And i understand you.
    I find it a shame to have to play another skill because Dive is bad. This is proof that this skill needs to change.
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    If we got a frost damage spammable, it'd be for the best for it to fufil the niche of a melee spammable as dive already acts as a ranged one.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Wolfpaw
    Wolfpaw
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    If we got a frost damage spammable, it'd be for the best for it to fufil the niche of a melee spammable as dive already acts as a ranged one.

    The Warden's of Vvardenfell have a good looking claw ability, would like this as a melee spammable, even better if it was Ice. Third cast turns it range for one cast maybe?

    If anyone interested checking these Warden Skills (like melee claw)
    Brigand Beastcaller
    Balmora, Vvardenfell
    Head out north entrance go a little NE to that dark structure below lava pond on map. Melee range for enemy to trigger the Warden (ice? it's blue) Claw.

    Edited by Wolfpaw on May 18, 2022 1:53AM
  • Dekrypted
    Dekrypted
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    The terrible animation alone makes this skill nowhere near even worth considering for pvp on both mag AND stamden. On stamden if they're in dw and spin to win, birds act almost as a meme compared to the fact that they're just building ult for a dawnbreaker sub assault spin combo. The dmg done passive is more useful to their combo compared to the actual spammable in that scenario. With magden as some others have said before me, force pulse exists and if wardens had a class spammable worth running, I'm sure you'd see plenty of magdens using it over an animation that has existed since launch (2014 and if im wrong, my bad). The vampire spammable was a nice alternative, but with this alternative the only options are to play in a limited melee capacity or have meh ranged options. Psijic spammable you may be thinking? In 2022 you're suggesting I use a skill that has barely been touched since its release only a year after wardens themselves were released? "lol" is my response to that.

    This class has an identity crisis. If they want wardens to just be tanks and healers, give us a sign. Like an obvious one. (Some of us, me included aren't that bright lol) Combat in 2022 entering this new chapter is alot more fast paced, but in pvp atleast, it feels like I'm still in 2017.

    I want to be an icemage/druid thing in pvp and zos keeps telling me no or to try harder with less. It's exhausting.
  • Mr_Stach
    Mr_Stach
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    Dekrypted wrote: »

    This class has an identity crisis. If they want wardens to just be tanks and healers, give us a sign.

    I think a large issue with Zos, is they tried to lazer focus each tree to a Role, but that has never worked that way. Each class uses skills from every tree on all roles except for Warden and probably Necro.

    Every tree should have useful skills for any given build. Sure on Warden Animal Companion tree is used. But Green Balance and Winter's Embrance, just one or two skills each tops will make it on any given build. Everything else is Universal Skills.

    At this point it's too late to completely redesign trees. But Zos should really work with the playerbase to make changes that allow for good class identity. Or maybe add new skills to trees across all classes for some new spice, but I doubt that'll happen.

    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • ResidentContrarian
    ResidentContrarian
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    I'm not gonna lie, I don't even slot that skill on my wardens.
  • Wellsley
    Wellsley
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    I'm not gonna lie, I don't even slot that skill on my wardens.

    I'm not surprised.
  • Wellsley
    Wellsley
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    What do you prefer between ice stalactite, netch tentacle and vine blow ? Other ideas ?
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    How about first cast summons 3 angry birds around you and each next case throws an Angry Bird at your enemies.
    Bird Fist!
  • Wellsley
    Wellsley
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    How about first cast summons 3 angry birds around you and each next case throws an Angry Bird at your enemies.
    Bird Fist!

    There is already Stone Giant for that.
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    Wellsley wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    How about first cast summons 3 angry birds around you and each next case throws an Angry Bird at your enemies.
    Bird Fist!

    There is already Stone Giant for that.

    Yeah...that's the point. Zos isn't great with the skill reworks. But no matter how stupid it gets, I guess it can't get much worse than the current skill.
  • Wellsley
    Wellsley
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    Wellsley wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    How about first cast summons 3 angry birds around you and each next case throws an Angry Bird at your enemies.
    Bird Fist!

    There is already Stone Giant for that.

    Yeah...that's the point. Zos isn't great with the skill reworks. But no matter how stupid it gets, I guess it can't get much worse than the current skill.

    We have to agree on a skill and convince Zenimax.
  • Mr_Stach
    Mr_Stach
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    tw2fz8s17zqm.gif

    I mean the Feedback to Changes is kinda Whack for ESO. Kinda like a Monkeys Paw, people will ask for X, Zos gives X adjacent. People asked for a Stam Spammable for DK, Toxic Whip was a big ask for a long time, then we got the Stone Giant rework that basically no one uses.

    If your feedback is even considered, you're not going to get what you asked for, one way or another.
    Edited by Mr_Stach on May 18, 2022 12:59PM
    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    Wellsley wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    Wellsley wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    How about first cast summons 3 angry birds around you and each next case throws an Angry Bird at your enemies.
    Bird Fist!

    There is already Stone Giant for that.

    Yeah...that's the point. Zos isn't great with the skill reworks. But no matter how stupid it gets, I guess it can't get much worse than the current skill.

    We have to agree on a skill and convince Zenimax.

    There's some optimism
  • Wellsley
    Wellsley
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    Mr_Stach wrote: »
    tw2fz8s17zqm.gif

    I mean the Feedback to Changes is kinda Whack for ESO. Kinda like a Monkeys Paw, people will ask for X, Zos gives X adjacent. People asked for a Stam Spammable for DK, Toxic Whip was a big ask for a long time, then we got the Stone Giant rework that basically no one uses.

    If your feedback is even considered, you're not going to get what you asked for, one way or another.

    The difference with here is that many players are against a true stamwhip. Here very few people can defend Dive, or skills like Flame Skull.
    DK got Stone Giant and a hybrid whip (both deserve better but that's not the point), I still have hope that one day we will have a real stamwhip.

    For now the best we can do is keep posting and coming up with ideas. So we won't go unnoticed.
    Edited by Wellsley on May 18, 2022 1:15PM
  • Pevey
    Pevey
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    No, please. If ZOS reworks it, we're going to get something silly like stagger or bound armaments instead of a simple spammable. Bird has problems, but anything is better than the arm this skill and then use it 3 times but only if the moons align or some other such [snip].

    [edited for profanity bypass]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 21, 2022 6:13PM
  • Wellsley
    Wellsley
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    Pevey wrote: »
    No, please. If ZOS reworks it, we're going to get something silly like stagger or bound armaments instead of a simple spammable. Bird has problems, but anything is better than the arm this skill and then use it 3 times but only if the moons align or some other such [snip].

    Dive is the reason Wardens prefer to use other skills. It's up to us to make proposals.

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 21, 2022 6:13PM
  • Wolfpaw
    Wolfpaw
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    Wellsley wrote: »
    Pevey wrote: »
    No, please. If ZOS reworks it, we're going to get something silly like stagger or bound armaments instead of a simple spammable. Bird has problems, but anything is better than the arm this skill and then use it 3 times but only if the moons align or some other such [snip].

    Dive is the reason Wardens prefer to use other skills. It's up to us to make proposals.

    Kinda in-game already also,

    If anyone interested checking these Warden Skills (like melee claw)
    Brigand Beastcaller
    Balmora, Vvardenfell
    Head out north entrance go a little NE to that dark structure below lava pond on map. Melee range for enemy to trigger the Warden (ice? it's blue) Claw.

    If in melee range they hit you 3x in a row with it, I would like this skill to be somewhat similar to Necro Skull, but increased damage by X, on third cast becomes range. This could play well with Shalks midrange and/or chasing enemies down.

    The npc version looks similar to Predator's wrist blades, but blue.

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 21, 2022 6:13PM
  • Pevey
    Pevey
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    In pve cutting dive for stamden is actually really nice. Stacking the bleeds is the only way to get a decent parse with stamden. It will become even more trash tier if zos replaces it with something else.
  • Mr_Stach
    Mr_Stach
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    Pevey wrote: »
    In pve cutting dive for stamden is actually really nice. Stacking the bleeds is the only way to get a decent parse with stamden. It will become even more trash tier if zos replaces it with something else.

    That's fair, and really the way I would "Fix" Birds is Make them faster, remove the unneeded range aspect and remove the offbalance stipulation.

    Sick of Warden needing to jump through hoops
    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • Pevey
    Pevey
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    Mr_Stach wrote: »
    Pevey wrote: »
    In pve cutting dive for stamden is actually really nice. Stacking the bleeds is the only way to get a decent parse with stamden. It will become even more trash tier if zos replaces it with something else.

    That's fair, and really the way I would "Fix" Birds is Make them faster, remove the unneeded range aspect and remove the offbalance stipulation.

    Sick of Warden needing to jump through hoops

    I also really like the range. It makes using bow/bow/tzogvin instead of daggers/2H a fairly trivial change, so that stamden can do range fights like in vAS. EDIT: provided that you are at least close enough for shalks to hit.
    Edited by Pevey on May 18, 2022 4:07PM
  • Mr_Stach
    Mr_Stach
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    It's fine that it's ranged, that's great. But the Range/Off-balance/Bleed Stipulation is annoying.

    It should just do the Bleed on every hit.
    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • Pevey
    Pevey
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    Mr_Stach wrote: »
    It's fine that it's ranged, that's great. But the Range/Off-balance/Bleed Stipulation is annoying.

    It should just do the Bleed on every hit.

    Oh, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, I'm not sure if the new CP star is really going to bring lightning back like ZOS hopes, but I have my fingers crossed. Having someone proc OB on cooldown is key for warden dps. Lightning going away has really hurt. ZOS has a trend of pve mechs where positioning is so important, meaning loose stacks because of meteors and such. Yandir hm, vrol, etc. Have to loose stack and stay in position. So moving back the 7m? required to proc the OB yourself is not really doable. When I can do, the missed LA attack or 2 are worth it. Anyways, it's annoying, and really hoping for healers to start running lightning staves again.
  • merpins
    merpins
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    I think the warden spammable works fine damage wise. It could use a minor buff, but the damage itself is okay Loses out to some other spammables, like Wrecking Blow (which is what I use)... The stipulations for activating extra effects are a bit specific and annoying, but nothing you can't do. It would be better if those were reworked a bit. But It looks meh and feels terrible to use. I understand that the theme of the class itself is around morrowind, hence mushrooms and creatures found in morrowind, but then what's with the bear and the ice attacks, right?

    I'd love for it to be changed into something different, like a bear claw strike or something else. But if they didn't want to change it, I'd love for it to feel more responsive. As it sits, I would never use it because it feels terrible to use. Every other spammable feels better, from Wrecking Blow, to Snipe, to Elemental Weapons, they're all way more weighty and responsive. This skill just has you point, then a cliff racer attacks. Neat theme. But the delay makes it feel floaty in a not great way.
    Edited by merpins on May 18, 2022 4:40PM
  • Wellsley
    Wellsley
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    Mr_Stach wrote: »
    It's fine that it's ranged, that's great. But the Range/Off-balance/Bleed Stipulation is annoying.

    It should just do the Bleed on every hit.

    Don't prefer ice spammable ? I thougt.
  • Mr_Stach
    Mr_Stach
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    I understand that the theme of the class itself is around morrowind, hence mushrooms and creatures found in morrowind, but then what's with the bear and the ice attacks, right?

    The thing is Warden Lore has 0 to do with Morrowind. It's about the Green and Y'ffre. So each Skill line makes sense with with that in mind. Y'ffre was a major god to the Woodelves (Represented by Animal Companions), Breton Wyrd Sisters (Represented by Green Balance), and the Snow Elves (Represented by Winter's Embrace). Y'ffre also has strong ties to the Khajiit.

    I think the Morrowind tie in was just convenient, and I wouldn't mind if they made the Cliff Racer a Hawk or something.

    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • Wellsley
    Wellsley
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    I think the warden spammable works fine damage wise. It could use a minor buff, but the damage itself is okay Loses out to some other spammables, like Wrecking Blow (which is what I use)... The stipulations for activating extra effects are a bit specific and annoying, but nothing you can't do. It would be better if those were reworked a bit. But It looks meh and feels terrible to use. I understand that the theme of the class itself is around morrowind, hence mushrooms and creatures found in morrowind, but then what's with the bear and the ice attacks, right?

    I'd love for it to be changed into something different, like a bear claw strike or something else. But if they didn't want to change it, I'd love for it to feel more responsive. As it sits, I would never use it because it feels terrible to use. Every other spammable feels better, from Wrecking Blow, to Snipe, to Elemental Weapons, they're all way more weighty and responsive. This skill just has you point, then a cliff racer attacks. Neat theme. But the delay makes it feel floaty in a not great way.

    It's true, the damage is correct, that's what I think anyway.

    What bothers me the most is the animation and speed of this skill.
  • Mr_Stach
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    Wellsley wrote: »
    Mr_Stach wrote: »
    It's fine that it's ranged, that's great. But the Range/Off-balance/Bleed Stipulation is annoying.

    It should just do the Bleed on every hit.

    Don't prefer ice spammable ? I thougt.

    I would love to have an Ice Spammable. But realistically, fixing what we already have is easier than creating new animations and new skills.

    I wouldn't mind if they just made the Magic Damage to be Frost Damage. And my thought would be to have the Ice Bird shatter on impact to do an AoE.

    Something similar to this:

    4ep12ckkbewd.png
    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
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