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Warden spammable
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Wellsley✭✭✭
I would love to have an Ice Spammable. But realistically, fixing what we already have is easier than creating new animations and new skills.
I wouldn't mind if they just made the Magic Damage to be Frost Damage. And my thought would be to have the Ice Bird shatter on impact to do an AoE.
Something similar to this:
I tell myself that with Tales of Tribute they can largely do it. A new spammable.0 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe they'll do it when they make the Warden and Necro Companions. But I think High Isle is the Gwent Expansion.Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup0 -
PrinceShroob✭✭✭✭✭Cliff Racer costs as much as most other ranged spammable skills and deals identical damage (it technically does more because Piercing Cold increases its damage by 10%). Although the damage is slightly delayed, it's not possible to lose the damage from it by casting it again due to the global cooldown.
The cost and damage of the skill are fine. I don't mind the delay--I'm sure it has some ramifications in PvP, but I don't really want to see the "rhythm" of the skill affected, especially when there's already class-agnostic spammables available. If you have trouble using it, you just need to get used to the beat.
My major problem with the skill is that Off Balance is a soft CC that prevents enemies from being chained by tanks. I'm not sure what I'd replace the Off Balance proc with. The damage increase on Screaming Cliff Racer is hard to quantify because, per the tooltip's wording, you should get bonus damage as long as you're not literally inside the target.
If we want to keep the theme of "damage Wardens don't provide a group buff but do heavy cleave damage," Screaming Cliff Racer could either cleave nearby enemies or deal additional damage if the target is afflicted with a debuff (which would synergize with Minor Vulnerability from Fetcher Infection, Major and Minor Breach from Deep Fissure, Chilled from Winter's Revenge, and Overcharged from dealing magic damage).
I'm ambivalent about changing the damage type. If it were changed to frost, the visuals of the skill would need to be updated to show that the cliff racer is an ice sculpture.MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »I understand that the theme of the class itself is around morrowind, hence mushrooms and creatures found in morrowind, but then what's with the bear and the ice attacks, right?
Presumably, if the other skills represent Morrowind's native flora and fauna, Feral Guardian and the Winter's Embrace skill line are a sendup to Bloodmoon, Morrowind's expansion, which took place on Solstheim.0 -
Dalsinthus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am increasingly main-ing a warden but never use dive. I don't use it because it is clunky and slow and seems to do low damage relative to other options. In PVP it is especially easy for enemies to anticipate and avoid.
The morph effects with increased range, off balance and bleed or increased damage, can stay or go as far as I'm concerned.
My suggestions:
-For all morphs, decrease the travel and animation time significantly such that it hits at the same speed as skills like force pulse, swallow soul, or the light attack crystal weapon/elemental weapon. Originally this skill was unavoidable in PVP and so the slower approach time was justifiable. But now that the skill can be dodged, the slowness of the effect is simply harmful to the overall utility and feel of the skill.
-For all morphs, increase the damage slightly so that this skill does competitive damage with other class spammables.
-Magic morph: change the animation entirely to a frost shard/spear. Change the damage type to frost. Yes it is weird that this is an animal companion skill (maybe call it an ice wraith?) but warden really needs more frost dps options, including a spammable. It makes good sense to put this in the skill tree that emphasizes damage.
-Stamina morph: keeping the cliff racer animation is fine, I guess. I don't love it but I doubt that ZOS would be willing to rework the skill that much. I just want the skill to feel better to use with faster animations and damage per second that can match that of other classes.3 -
Dalsinthus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Follow up to add that one thing hurting Cutting Dive for stam characters is that the skill is intended to be used at range but synergizes poorly with the Bow skill line passives, which largely apply to bow skills only. If the bow passives were adjusted to apply to ranged skills instead of only bow skills, that might make the kit of a ranged stam warden come together more coherently.2 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah the Bow Passives really just want you to use Bow Abilities, but if say Hawkeye changed to:
"Your successful Light and Heavy Attacks increase the damage of your Ranged Direct Damage Abilities by 5% for 5 seconds, stacking up to 5 times."
That would be greatEdited by Mr_Stach on May 18, 2022 6:01PMAltoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well Warden has turned into a Magic and Bleed Damage class. Not Frost Damage lol.
If we stay true to the “animal” theme I want to see something like this for the Animal Companions tree.
Feral Guardian: Magic Damage.
Polar Guardian: Frost Damage. Deals reduced damage but no longer needs to be slotted on both bars.
Eternal Guardian: Magic Damage. Revives on Death.
Dive: Magic Damage. Deals up to 10% more damage for range.
Frozen Dive: Frost Damage. Spawns a frost wraith that detonates on impact, striking targets within 6 meters. Deals 10% more damage to Chilled Targets.... now it can be used instead of Force Pulse.
Screaming Cliff Racer: Magic Damage. Deals up to 15% more Damage based on range. Now instead costs Stam. Great for ranged Stam builds.
Deep Fissure: Formally “Scorch” but renamed to Deep Fissure. Deals Magic Damage.
Deep Freeze: Frost Damage. Applies Major Breach. If the target already has Major Breach, then they take 8% more damage from all Frost Damage skills for 10 seconds.
Subterranean Assault: Magic Damage. Strikes a second time.
Swarm: Magic Damage.
Fetcher Infection: Magic Damage. Every second cast deals 50% more damage.
Creeping Winter: Frost Damage. The duration is increased by 0.5 seconds and damage increased by 0.5% whenever Chilled is applied. (Up to 50% more damage)Edited by Vaoh on May 18, 2022 6:24PM0 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ehhh I think the Bleed Damage is really good for Stamden, carves out a Niche as the "Savage Guardian of the Wilds" thing. Magden is really where the Identity Suffers.Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Warden has a passive for 10% increase to Magic and Frost Damage.Ehhh I think the Bleed Damage is really good for Stamden, carves out a Niche as the "Savage Guardian of the Wilds" thing. Magden is really where the Identity Suffers.
It really doesn’t make sense to have four different damage types when their supposed main element (Frost) is barely used.
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Wellsley✭✭✭Frozen Dive: Frost Damage. Spawns a frost wraith that detonates on impact, striking targets within 6 meters. Deals 10% more damage to Chilled Targets.... now it can be used instead of Force Pulse.
I prefer a new spammable, but if we kept this one, a frost wraith might be interesting. It all depends on the animation, of course, but it will still be better than what we have now.
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Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Warden has a passive for 10% increase to Magic and Frost Damage.Ehhh I think the Bleed Damage is really good for Stamden, carves out a Niche as the "Savage Guardian of the Wilds" thing. Magden is really where the Identity Suffers.
It really doesn’t make sense to have four different damage types when their supposed main element (Frost) is barely used.
Update the passive then? I think the Magic and Frost was a misstep from the get-go, that should've been a Magicka Based Damage Type and a Stamina Based Damage Type.
I would've gone for Frost and Poison at the time, but now Frost and Bleed sound good to me.Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup5 -
Wellsley✭✭✭Ehhh I think the Bleed Damage is really good for Stamden, carves out a Niche as the "Savage Guardian of the Wilds" thing. Magden is really where the Identity Suffers.
Honestly I don't think many stamdens play or will play with it, they prefer to use dizzying but i could be wrong.
What I want above all is a new spammable or a new animation for Dive. I love the Warden but I neglect him because Dive is bad.1 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Also even with Hybridization, I don't think Zos would have a Magic Damage Skill cost Stamina.
But whatevs. When has Zos ever done things based on "Making Sense"Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup0 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ehhh I think the Bleed Damage is really good for Stamden, carves out a Niche as the "Savage Guardian of the Wilds" thing. Magden is really where the Identity Suffers.
Honestly I don't think many stamdens play or will play with it, they prefer to use dizzying but i could be wrong.
What I want above all is a new spammable or a new animation for Dive. I love the Warden but I neglect him because Dive is bad.
AFAIK, every single stamden in end game raid guilds uses the bleed stack from the bird. No one uses dizzying in serious pve content.1 -
pikHz✭✭✭Honestly if it were up to me I would make Dive and both morphs Stam based. Keep Cutting Dive as is, and turn Screaming Cliff Racer into a Stam melee morph. Perhaps some kind of claw animation or something, with a bonus damage mechanic based on bleeds on the target.
Then I'd just turn Crystallized Slab into a spammable. Reduce cost to spammable standard and require a target to cast, keep the charges over 6 seconds but rather than damage absorption they increase your damage in some way. For example, gaining a damage-boosting charge for 6 seconds by doing critical/frost damage while its slotted, up to 3 charges, or starting with 3 charges and having some minor mechanic where you try to avoid losing them by not taking projectile damage or something. The charges could either refresh with each cast or once every 6 seconds on cast depending on what the prior mechanic would look like.
I'd also just be boring and turn Frozen Retreat into a frost Scalding Rune by removing the pull and synergy and adding a DOT to any enemies hit when it triggers lol. Or have it burst higher damage and immobilize in fewer, longer intervals like a frost-based Shadow Silk or something. Like have it burst and immobilize at 2 seconds, 7 seconds, and 12 seconds or something like that.
These are all only half thought out it would be nice to see Dive and Frost damage get some love.0 -
Wellsley✭✭✭Ehhh I think the Bleed Damage is really good for Stamden, carves out a Niche as the "Savage Guardian of the Wilds" thing. Magden is really where the Identity Suffers.
Honestly I don't think many stamdens play or will play with it, they prefer to use dizzying but i could be wrong.
What I want above all is a new spammable or a new animation for Dive. I love the Warden but I neglect him because Dive is bad.
AFAIK, every single stamden in end game raid guilds uses the bleed stack from the bird. No one uses dizzying in serious pve content.
I should have specified PvP.
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Wellsley✭✭✭Then I'd just turn Crystallized Slab into a spammable. Reduce cost to spammable standard and require a target to cast, keep the charges over 6 seconds but rather than damage absorption they increase your damage in some way. For example, gaining a damage-boosting charge for 6 seconds by doing critical/frost damage while its slotted, up to 3 charges, or starting with 3 charges and having some minor mechanic where you try to avoid losing them by not taking projectile damage or something. The charges could either refresh with each cast or once every 6 seconds on cast depending on what the prior mechanic would look like.
I think it's easier to make a real spammable with a good animation.
Modify the Dive animation or replace the skill, in one of the three skill lines simply.
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Wellsley✭✭✭For now, here are the proposals (new spammable or new Dive) we have :
Me :
- (Ice ?) Netch tentacle.
- Ice stalactite.
- (Ice ?) Vine hit.
Wolfpaw :
- Claw. Apparently a skill like that already exists with some NPCs.
"Brigand Beastcaller
Balmora, Vvardenfell
Head out north entrance go a little NE to that dark structure below lava pond on map."
Sandman929 :
- New Dive like Stone Giant : first cast summons 3 angry birds around you and each next case throws an Angry Bird at your enemies.
Dalsinthus :
- Magic morph : Frost shard/spear.
Vaoh :
- Frozen Dive : Frost Damage. Spawns a frost wraith that detonates on impact, striking targets within 6 meters. Deals 10% more damage to Chilled Targets.
pikHz :
- New Crystallized Slab : Reduce cost to spammable standard and require a target to cast, keep the charges over 6 seconds but rather than damage absorption they increase your damage in some way. For example, gaining a damage-boosting charge for 6 seconds by doing critical/frost damage while its slotted, up to 3 charges, or starting with 3 charges and having some minor mechanic where you try to avoid losing them by not taking projectile damage or something. The charges could either refresh with each cast or once every 6 seconds on cast depending on what the prior mechanic would look like.
Edited by Wellsley on May 20, 2022 12:18AM2 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For now, here are the proposals (new spammable or new Dive) we have :
Me :
- (Ice ?) Netch tentacle.
- Ice stalactite.
- (Ice ?) Vine hit.
Wolfpaw :
- Claw. Apparently a skill like that already exists with some NPCs.
"Brigand Beastcaller
Balmora, Vvardenfell
Head out north entrance go a little NE to that dark structure below lava pond on map."
Sandman929 :
- New Dive like Stone Giant : first cast summons 3 angry birds around you and each next case throws an Angry Bird at your enemies.
Dalsinthus :
- Magic morph : Frost shard/spear.
Vaoh :
- Frozen Dive : Frost Damage. Spawns a frost wraith that detonates on impact, striking targets within 6 meters. Deals 10% more damage to Chilled Targets.
pikHz :
- New Crystallized Slab : Reduce cost to spammable standard and require a target to cast, keep the charges over 6 seconds but rather than damage absorption they increase your damage in some way. For example, gaining a damage-boosting charge for 6 seconds by doing critical/frost damage while its slotted, up to 3 charges, or starting with 3 charges and having some minor mechanic where you try to avoid losing them by not taking projectile damage or something. The charges could either refresh with each cast or once every 6 seconds on cast depending on what the prior mechanic would look like.
Good call on this, thank you.0 -
Wellsley✭✭✭For now, here are the proposals (new spammable or new Dive) we have :
Me :
- (Ice ?) Netch tentacle.
- Ice stalactite.
- (Ice ?) Vine hit.
Wolfpaw :
- Claw. Apparently a skill like that already exists with some NPCs.
"Brigand Beastcaller
Balmora, Vvardenfell
Head out north entrance go a little NE to that dark structure below lava pond on map."
Sandman929 :
- New Dive like Stone Giant : first cast summons 3 angry birds around you and each next case throws an Angry Bird at your enemies.
Dalsinthus :
- Magic morph : Frost shard/spear.
Vaoh :
- Frozen Dive : Frost Damage. Spawns a frost wraith that detonates on impact, striking targets within 6 meters. Deals 10% more damage to Chilled Targets.
pikHz :
- New Crystallized Slab : Reduce cost to spammable standard and require a target to cast, keep the charges over 6 seconds but rather than damage absorption they increase your damage in some way. For example, gaining a damage-boosting charge for 6 seconds by doing critical/frost damage while its slotted, up to 3 charges, or starting with 3 charges and having some minor mechanic where you try to avoid losing them by not taking projectile damage or something. The charges could either refresh with each cast or once every 6 seconds on cast depending on what the prior mechanic would look like.
Good call on this, thank you.
I'll do more later. After several other suggestions.1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For now, here are the proposals (new spammable or new Dive) we have :
Me :
- (Ice ?) Netch tentacle.
- Ice stalactite.
- (Ice ?) Vine hit.
Wolfpaw :
- Claw. Apparently a skill like that already exists with some NPCs.
"Brigand Beastcaller
Balmora, Vvardenfell
Head out north entrance go a little NE to that dark structure below lava pond on map."
Sandman929 :
- New Dive like Stone Giant : first cast summons 3 angry birds around you and each next case throws an Angry Bird at your enemies.
Dalsinthus :
- Magic morph : Frost shard/spear.
Vaoh :
- Frozen Dive : Frost Damage. Spawns a frost wraith that detonates on impact, striking targets within 6 meters. Deals 10% more damage to Chilled Targets.
pikHz :
- New Crystallized Slab : Reduce cost to spammable standard and require a target to cast, keep the charges over 6 seconds but rather than damage absorption they increase your damage in some way. For example, gaining a damage-boosting charge for 6 seconds by doing critical/frost damage while its slotted, up to 3 charges, or starting with 3 charges and having some minor mechanic where you try to avoid losing them by not taking projectile damage or something. The charges could either refresh with each cast or once every 6 seconds on cast depending on what the prior mechanic would look like.
Good call on this, thank you.
I'll do more later. After several other suggestions.
I can try to get an img, on console so a few workarounds is needed. Unless a fellow PC Warden beats me to it:-)1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ehhh I think the Bleed Damage is really good for Stamden, carves out a Niche as the "Savage Guardian of the Wilds" thing. Magden is really where the Identity Suffers.
Honestly I don't think many stamdens play or will play with it, they prefer to use dizzying but i could be wrong.
What I want above all is a new spammable or a new animation for Dive. I love the Warden but I neglect him because Dive is bad.
AFAIK, every single stamden in end game raid guilds uses the bleed stack from the bird. No one uses dizzying in serious pve content.
I should have specified PvP.
Cutting dive is used in pvp aswell, by bow wardens or dual wield wardensPower Wealth And Influence.1 -
Wellsley✭✭✭For now, here are the proposals (new spammable or new Dive) we have :
Me :
- (Ice ?) Netch tentacle.
- Ice stalactite.
- (Ice ?) Vine hit.
Wolfpaw :
- Claw. Apparently a skill like that already exists with some NPCs.
"Brigand Beastcaller
Balmora, Vvardenfell
Head out north entrance go a little NE to that dark structure below lava pond on map."
Sandman929 :
- New Dive like Stone Giant : first cast summons 3 angry birds around you and each next case throws an Angry Bird at your enemies.
Dalsinthus :
- Magic morph : Frost shard/spear.
Vaoh :
- Frozen Dive : Frost Damage. Spawns a frost wraith that detonates on impact, striking targets within 6 meters. Deals 10% more damage to Chilled Targets.
pikHz :
- New Crystallized Slab : Reduce cost to spammable standard and require a target to cast, keep the charges over 6 seconds but rather than damage absorption they increase your damage in some way. For example, gaining a damage-boosting charge for 6 seconds by doing critical/frost damage while its slotted, up to 3 charges, or starting with 3 charges and having some minor mechanic where you try to avoid losing them by not taking projectile damage or something. The charges could either refresh with each cast or once every 6 seconds on cast depending on what the prior mechanic would look like.
Good call on this, thank you.
I'll do more later. After several other suggestions.
I can try to get an img, on console so a few workarounds is needed. Unless a fellow PC Warden beats me to it:-)
It would be good !0 -
Wellsley✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Ehhh I think the Bleed Damage is really good for Stamden, carves out a Niche as the "Savage Guardian of the Wilds" thing. Magden is really where the Identity Suffers.
Honestly I don't think many stamdens play or will play with it, they prefer to use dizzying but i could be wrong.
What I want above all is a new spammable or a new animation for Dive. I love the Warden but I neglect him because Dive is bad.
AFAIK, every single stamden in end game raid guilds uses the bleed stack from the bird. No one uses dizzying in serious pve content.
I should have specified PvP.
Cutting dive is used in pvp aswell, by bow wardens or dual wield wardens
Flame Skull too, but not many players use them.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Ehhh I think the Bleed Damage is really good for Stamden, carves out a Niche as the "Savage Guardian of the Wilds" thing. Magden is really where the Identity Suffers.
Honestly I don't think many stamdens play or will play with it, they prefer to use dizzying but i could be wrong.
What I want above all is a new spammable or a new animation for Dive. I love the Warden but I neglect him because Dive is bad.
AFAIK, every single stamden in end game raid guilds uses the bleed stack from the bird. No one uses dizzying in serious pve content.
I should have specified PvP.
Cutting dive is used in pvp aswell, by bow wardens or dual wield wardens
Flame Skull too, but not many players use them.
It depends, on your build but yeahPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Wellsley✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Ehhh I think the Bleed Damage is really good for Stamden, carves out a Niche as the "Savage Guardian of the Wilds" thing. Magden is really where the Identity Suffers.
Honestly I don't think many stamdens play or will play with it, they prefer to use dizzying but i could be wrong.
What I want above all is a new spammable or a new animation for Dive. I love the Warden but I neglect him because Dive is bad.
AFAIK, every single stamden in end game raid guilds uses the bleed stack from the bird. No one uses dizzying in serious pve content.
I should have specified PvP.
Cutting dive is used in pvp aswell, by bow wardens or dual wield wardens
Flame Skull too, but not many players use them.
It depends, on your build but yeah
Yes that doesn't represent many players.0 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭They should buff cliffracer a bit so it is viable as a ranged warden spammable in PvP, maybe by buffing the speed. I dont think the skill should be removed and replaced by something completely different. As a meele spammable warden should cut the player with an ice blade or scratch them with animal claws.0
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Wellsley✭✭✭They should buff cliffracer a bit so it is viable as a ranged warden spammable in PvP, maybe by buffing the speed. I dont think the skill should be removed and replaced by something completely different. As a meele spammable warden should cut the player with an ice blade or scratch them with animal claws.
If I understand correctly, you are talking about two different spammables. Dive for distance and another for melee.
This could be a solution. Increase the speed of Dive for those who want to play from a distance, and create new spammable like a vine hit (Green Balance) or with ice (Winter's Embrace).
You mentioned an ice sword, I hadn't thought of that and I must say I like it.
Edited by Wellsley on May 21, 2022 4:54PM0