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ZoS for the sake of performance please reconsider your earlier LA ideas.
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PvP_Exploiter✭✭✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »
That's was not the reason.
It was because they swapped the place of Vigor and Rapids, because Vigor is a more important skill. But everyone complained it was an anti-QoL change because they were slow, so they put it on Continuous Attack.5 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭OP seems to claim a lot of things here without proof.
I'm against changing the combat mechanics in any way, EVEN if it increased performance. [snip]
[edited for minor baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 22, 2022 11:13AM3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is irrelevant how the LA/HA damage scales since the server would still need to calculate it.
Please provide a link to Zenimax saying it would reduce the server load if that was ever the case.0 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To my opinion, if an animation is canceled, so should its damage since the fireball(or other) never did it the enemy3 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭neferpitou73 wrote: »Are we playing the "mechanics cause performance issues" game again? Because the last three times they've "fixed" mechanics issues performance has just continued to plummet.
ZoS needs to invest in their servers; nothing else they've tried has worked. It's as simple as that; and coincidentally it's pretty much the only thing they haven't tried.
Not only that but I believe they do "move resources around" like in Midyear Mayhem and it helps!! I don't remember if we got official confirmation of this but there is at least a lot of anecdotal evidence.
There may be architectural reasons why more servers / server resources would not help but if that's the case this is yet another area where a direct response would be helpful to reduce ongoing speculation.
The LA/HA is a "yea, but at what cost" idea. All the fun in the game should not be ruined to "fix" it. While a lot of people focused in DPS, I believe it was a very problematic change for healing as well. And I don't remember it being cited as being done to improve performance but, given everything, I wouldn't rule it out without confirmation either.0 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭It is irrelevant how the LA/HA damage scales since the server would still need to calculate it.
Please provide a link to Zenimax saying it would reduce the server load if that was ever the case.
Its multiple posts and topics, feel free to read through it all for the U26 PTS and Dev Comments. It was between March and April of 2020. If you need a reminder, the majority of all tests back then were for performance improvements.0 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »To my opinion, if an animation is canceled, so should its damage since the fireball(or other) never did it the enemy
So you're saying every ability should have 1 second casting time? Because you can't really undo instant damage if you cancel the animation a while after.
No thanks.0 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭neferpitou73 wrote: »Are we playing the "mechanics cause performance issues" game again? Because the last three times they've "fixed" mechanics issues performance has just continued to plummet.
ZoS needs to invest in their servers; nothing else they've tried has worked. It's as simple as that; and coincidentally it's pretty much the only thing they haven't tried.
Not only that but I believe they do "move resources around" like in Midyear Mayhem and it helps!! I don't remember if we got official confirmation of this but there is at least a lot of anecdotal evidence.
There may be architectural reasons why more servers / server resources would not help but if that's the case this is yet another area where a direct response would be helpful to reduce ongoing speculation.
The LA/HA is a "yea, but at what cost" idea. All the fun in the game should not be ruined to "fix" it. While a lot of people focused in DPS, I believe it was a very problematic change for healing as well. And I don't remember it being cited as being done to improve performance but, given everything, I wouldn't rule it out without confirmation either.
The issue with the 2020 LA test is that healers needed to land 3 consecutive hits to get the max resource sustain buff (weaving broke the 'combo'). And since most healers use Heavy Attacks to regain resources it was making it really hard for them to get back resources. Im not saying the 2020 model was what should be brought in, I am saying ZoS did a ton of redesign work trying to bring it over and the shelved it. Two years have now passed and it should be looked at again.Edited by Unknown_Redemption on March 22, 2022 11:17AM0 -
RoninMB✭✭✭So you're saying that people light attack weaving is what's causing performance issues, gotcha. I'm sure the 3/4 of the server population running around with companions out has nothing to do with degrading server performance. /s5 -
Ardan147✭✭✭✭As if it would even help.
The three laws of (ESO) serverdynamics:
1. The number of simultaneous users the servers can handle without [snip] the bed can never increase.
2. The total number of bugs in the code can never decrease.
3. Impossibility of eliminating crashes.
[Edited for Censor Bypass]
Edited by Psiion on March 24, 2022 11:24PMThis creature called a songbird. What a devious creation! This winged nuisance erodes sanity with its incessant chirping. What a brilliant form of torture!0 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭So you're saying that people light attack weaving is what's causing performance issues, gotcha. I'm sure the 3/4 of the server population running around with companions out has nothing to do with degrading server performance. /s
AI has set parameters and actions, so youre right (minus the sarcasm), companions actually do not strain anything.0 -
ForeverJenn✭✭✭I challenge you to compare your average properly LA weaved parsed against your everyday causal button masher. You'll be surprised who is actually trying to send more input signals and who is spending more time trying to do it.Edited by ForeverJenn on March 22, 2022 7:46PM1
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NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »The only test that made a minor difference was the removal of crosshealing. ZOS chose not to implement it.
Light Attack changes would make difference, it didnt go into effect due to comments on the PTS. I agree that the healing limitations were bad as it removed the feeling of being included when in big PVP fights. Removing the absurd damage LAs do wouldnt change how the game feels.
How little damage do you propose LAs do that you think people will stop weaving in PvP?Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭ForeverJenn wrote: »I challenge you to compare your average properly LA weaved parsed against your everyday causal button masher. You'll be surprised who is actually trying to send more input signals and who is spending more time trying to do it.
Thats my point, some people click a LA 1x per second (LA->Ability, LA->Ability, Bar Swap, LA->Ability, etc) where other people will legit spam LA more than 4x per second. Thats a ton of info the servers need to react to.
Folks started doing bash weaves (LA-> Bash -> Ability, LA-> Bash -> Ability, Bar Swap, LA->Bash -> Ability, etc). That is 240+ actions per minute, all for the sake of damage, which was quickly nerfed. Some of it might be to keep damage numbers in line, sure, but some of it is to ease off sooo many things happening per second - e.g. performance.0 -
propertyOfUndefined✭✭✭✭✭I agree. Very much in favor of revisiting the old proposal — especial if it means less client-server chatter.0 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I PvP barely at all but I will say that pretty much the ONLY times I've crashed have been when I've played the ability keys and the mouse like a piano doing the minute waltz, or when I've been in the same area as other players who are, from the graphics, obviously doing likewise. You get the long pause when your character stops doing anything at all (except dying, where relevant) and then... Darkness.Edited by Northwold on March 22, 2022 9:34PM0 -
J18696✭✭✭✭✭Are we going to just ignore the fact they have already said they are recoding the server architecture entirely why don't you just let them do one thing at a time before we all start crying about light attacks causing lag0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Please provide any concrete evidence that LAs cause lag. Lag is not an issue on dummy parses, and for the most part, not an issue in trial fights, where the vast majority of LA weaving happens. Lag plagues PVP, and group finder is broken, but I dont see how that is in any way related to LAs, which have been part of the game since launch.
Also, please provide evidence to support your claim that LAs do 20% of a parse. Meta parses are typically in the range of 12-14 % of damage from LAs, which is significantly lower than you claim. I am happy to provide links to Meta parses or parses of my own if needed.I don't know how much impact LA have on server but I agree LA being 20% of total DPS is ridiculous. Learning skills & boss mechanics to be competitive is one thing, learning how to weave feels like an unnecessary burden everyone has to deal with.
They don't. Current LA numbers are much lower than that.
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Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Please provide any concrete evidence that LAs cause lag. Lag is not an issue on dummy parses, and for the most part, not an issue in trial fights, where the vast majority of LA weaving happens. Lag plagues PVP, and group finder is broken, but I dont see how that is in any way related to LAs, which have been part of the game since launch.
Also, please provide evidence to support your claim that LAs do 20% of a parse. Meta parses are typically in the range of 12-14 % of damage from LAs, which is significantly lower than you claim. I am happy to provide links to Meta parses or parses of my own if needed.I don't know how much impact LA have on server but I agree LA being 20% of total DPS is ridiculous. Learning skills & boss mechanics to be competitive is one thing, learning how to weave feels like an unnecessary burden everyone has to deal with.
They don't. Current LA numbers are much lower than that.
20% is actually normal for mid range players. When dots are cut early, ultimates missed, etc, the LA damage actually creeps far ahead of the rest of the skills. That being said, I dont need your parses as this is not what the thread is about.
This thread isnt being used to 'prove' anything, its asking for the combat team to reconsider what was almost implemented. If you want to read through the prior discussions that is fine. As I said above, you can refer to the Dev tracker and PTS for U26 which was around March to April of 2020.0