ZoS for the sake of performance please reconsider your earlier LA ideas.

Unknown_Redemption

Unpopular opinion, but, I'd rather have a smoother gaming experience if some things had the proposed major reworks.

Please reconsider the utility changes to Light Attacks and Heavy Attacks to ease server computation stains. I still dont feel like these need to be the source of 20% of our damage.

Alternatively, tie abilities and light attacks together, so that they go off as an automatic combo (Or have a toggle option under combat settings). People are spamming LA buttons at least 4x per second trying to hit that .5sec cooldown - thats a ton of data input coming from every person.

As a consumer, I can see ZoS is trying and I am willing to accept whatever is needed to make things run better.

neferpitou73

Are we playing the "mechanics cause performance issues" game again? Because the last three times they've "fixed" mechanics issues performance has just continued to plummet.

ZoS needs to invest in their servers; nothing else they've tried has worked. It's as simple as that; and coincidentally it's pretty much the only thing they haven't tried.

Cuddlypuff

Why not just press a single button to start the auto-rotation for your class? The active/"spammy" combat system is one of the main factors that differentiates ESO from other games in a positive way.

Stamicka

How would this do anything for performance?

Unknown_Redemption

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Why not just press a single button to start the auto-rotation for your class? The active/"spammy" combat system is one of the main factors that differentiates ESO from other games in a positive way.

World of Warcraft has parry, block, dodge, riposte, and weapon swing all automatically fired when in combat. There is a reason those are built in and not given free control: Performance.

Unknown_Redemption

Stamicka wrote: »

How would this do anything for performance?

The same reason they gave Continuous Attack the Major Gallop buff. Everyone constantly pressing Rapid Maneuver caused problems.

zaria

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Are we playing the "mechanics cause performance issues" game again? Because the last three times they've "fixed" mechanics issues performance has just continued to plummet.

ZoS needs to invest in their servers; nothing else they've tried has worked. It's as simple as that; and coincidentally it's pretty much the only thing they haven't tried.

Server performance is rarely an issue I think outside of huge fights in Cyrodil.
Yes you get issues but this is mostly software bugs.
Yes I want the Cyrodil servers to be upgraded for larger battles. However this ignoring:

The client in the room, each quarter we get new motifs , styles, costumes, pets and mounts.
All you have to load into memory.
As this is an major income source its not something ZoS will change

One simple remedy would be to lower graphic settings in Cyrodil and trials. Especially particle effects as its so much effects.

Stamicka

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

How would this do anything for performance?

The same reason they gave Continuous Attack the Major Gallop buff. Everyone constantly pressing Rapid Maneuver caused problems.

Reducing the damage of light attacks would do nothing. Light attacks are free so people who do endgame content will weave no matter what, there’s no reason not to.

The only reason I like the combat system is because it is fast paced. They should absolutely NOT slow it down for “performance” reasons.

Stamicka

zaria wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Are we playing the "mechanics cause performance issues" game again? Because the last three times they've "fixed" mechanics issues performance has just continued to plummet.

ZoS needs to invest in their servers; nothing else they've tried has worked. It's as simple as that; and coincidentally it's pretty much the only thing they haven't tried.

Server performance is rarely an issue I think outside of huge fights in Cyrodil.
Yes you get issues but this is mostly software bugs.
Yes I want the Cyrodil servers to be upgraded for larger battles. However this ignoring:

The client in the room, each quarter we get new motifs , styles, costumes, pets and mounts.
All you have to load into memory.
As this is an major income source its not something ZoS will change

One simple remedy would be to lower graphic settings in Cyrodil and trials. Especially particle effects as its so much effects.

Nope. Graphic settings have little to do with it. There’s many issues with skill delay, unresponsive inputs, and desync. These are all caused by bad server performance. You might lose some frames in large battles, but the server performance is what makes things unplayable. It’s not just Cyrodiil, end game trials suffer too. Compared to previous years, every aspect of the game just feels slower.

Unknown_Redemption

Stamicka wrote: »

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

How would this do anything for performance?

The same reason they gave Continuous Attack the Major Gallop buff. Everyone constantly pressing Rapid Maneuver caused problems.

Reducing the damage of light attacks would do nothing. Light attacks are free so people who do endgame content will weave no matter what, there’s no reason not to.

The only reason I like the combat system is because it is fast paced. They should absolutely NOT slow it down for “performance” reasons.

ZoS specifically said changing the utility of LA would ease the servers. They shelved the idea for future consideration after the PTS threads. I think the time has come for them to reconsider.

And yes, if LAs gave 2-3% max damage, many folks would weave for score pushing. But for casual game play, there would be no reason to worry about that extra crumb.

Stamicka

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

How would this do anything for performance?

The same reason they gave Continuous Attack the Major Gallop buff. Everyone constantly pressing Rapid Maneuver caused problems.

Reducing the damage of light attacks would do nothing. Light attacks are free so people who do endgame content will weave no matter what, there’s no reason not to.

The only reason I like the combat system is because it is fast paced. They should absolutely NOT slow it down for “performance” reasons.

ZoS specifically said changing the utility of LA would ease the servers. They shelved the idea for future consideration after the PTS threads. I think the time has come for them to reconsider.

And yes, if LAs gave 2-3% max damage, many folks would weave for score pushing. But for casual game play, there would be no reason to worry about that extra crumb.

They’ve said a lot of things would fix the servers. I made a whole post about it. Remember when they tested adding cooldowns in PvP to ease the servers? It never works and the performance will continue to worsen.

In casual gameplay now you don’t need to light weave. Have you seen normal and overland content lately?

Like I said, once you get it down there’s just no reason not to weave. People would still do it. It would just be another nerf for the sake of performance gains we never see.

Deanlolz

Unfortunately this update has proven that there is still too much data for ZoS to track on a per character basis. If they're truly serious about improving performance they will make skill lines and mount upgrades account wide.

If, after making those changes, performance issues still remain, then perhaps we can consider changes to the combat system.

Unknown_Redemption

Stamicka wrote: »

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

How would this do anything for performance?

The same reason they gave Continuous Attack the Major Gallop buff. Everyone constantly pressing Rapid Maneuver caused problems.

Reducing the damage of light attacks would do nothing. Light attacks are free so people who do endgame content will weave no matter what, there’s no reason not to.

The only reason I like the combat system is because it is fast paced. They should absolutely NOT slow it down for “performance” reasons.

ZoS specifically said changing the utility of LA would ease the servers. They shelved the idea for future consideration after the PTS threads. I think the time has come for them to reconsider.

And yes, if LAs gave 2-3% max damage, many folks would weave for score pushing. But for casual game play, there would be no reason to worry about that extra crumb.

They’ve said a lot of things would fix the servers. I made a whole post about it. Remember when they tested adding cooldowns in PvP to ease the servers? It never works and the performance will continue to worsen.

In casual gameplay now you don’t need to light weave. Have you seen normal and overland content lately?

Like I said, once you get it down there’s just no reason not to weave. People would still do it. It would just be another nerf for the sake of performance gains we never see.

This has nothing to do with learning how to weave. Its not hard to do, its just spamming the LA button endlessly. But THAT is data the server needs to calculate and determine if it is 'time' and it bogs everything down.

Cuddlypuff

The only test that made a minor difference was the removal of crosshealing. ZOS chose not to implement it.

Unknown_Redemption

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

The only test that made a minor difference was the removal of crosshealing. ZOS chose not to implement it.

Light Attack changes would make difference, it didnt go into effect due to comments on the PTS. I agree that the healing limitations were bad as it removed the feeling of being included when in big PVP fights. Removing the absurd damage LAs do wouldnt change how the game feels.

Unknown_Redemption

Deanlolz wrote: »

Unfortunately this update has proven that there is still too much data for ZoS to track on a per character basis. If they're truly serious about improving performance they will make skill lines and mount upgrades account wide.

If, after making those changes, performance issues still remain, then perhaps we can consider changes to the combat system.

The mount thing is actually really insightful. Every character that is leveling them has a unique rolling 20hr timer, that honestly has to put a strain on something. At the very least, these should just become 'daily' upgrades to become available when either quests refresh or the ledgermain reset happens a few hours earlier.

PlagueSD

zaria wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Are we playing the "mechanics cause performance issues" game again? Because the last three times they've "fixed" mechanics issues performance has just continued to plummet.

ZoS needs to invest in their servers; nothing else they've tried has worked. It's as simple as that; and coincidentally it's pretty much the only thing they haven't tried.

Server performance is rarely an issue I think outside of huge fights in Cyrodil.
Yes you get issues but this is mostly software bugs.
Yes I want the Cyrodil servers to be upgraded for larger battles. However this ignoring:

The client in the room, each quarter we get new motifs , styles, costumes, pets and mounts.
All you have to load into memory.
As this is an major income source its not something ZoS will change

One simple remedy would be to lower graphic settings in Cyrodil and trials. Especially particle effects as its so much effects.

Nope, graphics has nothing to do with performance. I run at an average of between 85 and 120 fps. my ping is normally around 85-110ms. I STILL have to hit my ultimate at least 5 times before it goes off.

Arthtur

As an earlier post was considered as a baiting i will write this in a diffrent way.

What if after "removing" those LA we wont get performance gains? Will we remove PvP next? After PvP Dungeons? After Dungeons Housing? And what if this helps? We are happy that there is no lag after removing half of the game? Also its not like ZOS will be able to add anything new then as that would bring back performance problems.

Sorry but i dont see any way in which removing something is healthy for the game.

Unknown_Redemption

Arthtur wrote: »

As an earlier post was considered as a baiting i will write this in a diffrent way.

What if after "removing" those LA we wont get performance gains? Will we remove PvP next? After PvP Dungeons? After Dungeons Housing? And what if this helps? We are happy that there is no lag after removing half of the game? Also its not like ZOS will be able to add anything new then as that would bring back performance problems.

Sorry but i dont see any way in which removing something is healthy for the game.

Light Attacks were never considered for being removed, its changing how they function.

festegios

Why do I just get the sense the op can’t get his light attacks in so therefor they must be removed so he doesn’t have to think about them anymore?

neferpitou73

Every time I read a thread like this I feel like I'm in a time loop (actually I think I've written this same post before): "Change this one thing and it'll fix performance forever." We've seen it with AOE spam, group sizes, cross healing, proc sets and now achievements. And every time they removed something fun from the game the performance has just gotten worse and worse. Simple pattern recognition would indicate that more solutions of the same type will produce similar results.

I feel that what we are seeing today is the inevitable result of a development philosophy that places short term profit over game stability. For years we've seen ZoS sweep gamebreaking bugs under the rug, while they continue to pump out more content for immediate profit.

For years PvP has suffered gamebreaking lag and bugs that were largely ignored (because who cares about PvP it's a small portion of the playerbase); it then spread to endgame PvE content (but who cares about that, Trial groups are also a small portion of the playerbase); then to vet dungeons (but who takes those seriously anyway) and finally now to housing and overland.

Anyone who's ever worked with a computer knows that building on a program with buggy code is only going to result in more buggy code.
It's important to work out those kinks before you move forward. You cannot build your house on a shaky foundation. And yet that's what it feels like ZoS has been doing for the last several years at least. The game's foundation feels like it's made of sand.

ZoS needs to take time off from pumping out new content and making sure the stuff that is already in their game works. We don't care about a new dungeon if it's too buggy to run. We're not going to play a card game if the things that drew us to the game don't work.

All of us here understand that ZoS needs to make money. What's more we're happy to give them our money. So long as they give us a product that works.

Gaeliannas

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Are we playing the "mechanics cause performance issues" game again? Because the last three times they've "fixed" mechanics issues performance has just continued to plummet.

ZoS needs to invest in their servers; nothing else they've tried has worked. It's as simple as that; and coincidentally it's pretty much the only thing they haven't tried.

It is pretty weird actually, the game is obviously popular, but they seem to have a real aversion to adding or replacing hardware, which makes no sense. They have literally tried everything else as you said. The elephant in the room is, why were new servers not bought every time they added new content so they could maintain the existing levels of performance? Or did they and just never bother to mention it, and this really is a spaghetti code nightmare? Only they can say, but they aren't saying anything.

WrathOfInnos

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Why not just press a single button to start the auto-rotation for your class? The active/"spammy" combat system is one of the main factors that differentiates ESO from other games in a positive way.

World of Warcraft has parry, block, dodge, riposte, and weapon swing all automatically fired when in combat. There is a reason those are built in and not given free control: Performance.

There is a reason we're all playing ESO and not WoW. Better combat and more direct control are a big part of it for me.

themaddaedra

Lol nice try.

Cadbury

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Why not just press a single button to start the auto-rotation for your class? The active/"spammy" combat system is one of the main factors that differentiates ESO from other games in a positive way.

World of Warcraft has parry, block, dodge, riposte, and weapon swing all automatically fired when in combat. There is a reason those are built in and not given free control: Performance.

There is a reason we're all playing ESO and not WoW. Better combat and more direct control are a big part of it for me.

Well..that and the ESO's stories are a bit better IMO

renne

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

How would this do anything for performance?

The same reason they gave Continuous Attack the Major Gallop buff. Everyone constantly pressing Rapid Maneuver caused problems.

Reducing the damage of light attacks would do nothing. Light attacks are free so people who do endgame content will weave no matter what, there’s no reason not to.

The only reason I like the combat system is because it is fast paced. They should absolutely NOT slow it down for “performance” reasons.

ZoS specifically said changing the utility of LA would ease the servers. They shelved the idea for future consideration after the PTS threads. I think the time has come for them to reconsider.

And yes, if LAs gave 2-3% max damage, many folks would weave for score pushing. But for casual game play, there would be no reason to worry about that extra crumb.

If you're talking about casual gameplay, most people don't weave anyway, because they're casual players.

Most people will hit their skills until they run out of resources and spam light attacks until it comes back (or, if they've read a load screen, heavy attack until they can go back to hitting skills). I watch other people play when I am doing overland stuff and believe me the vast majority of people aren't parsing on a dragon or world bosses.

Lauranae

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Why not just press a single button to start the auto-rotation for your class? The active/"spammy" combat system is one of the main factors that differentiates ESO from other games in a positive way.

World of Warcraft has parry, block, dodge, riposte, and weapon swing all automatically fired when in combat. There is a reason those are built in and not given free control: Performance.

And happily we are not WoW!!! GRRRR

LashanW

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

This has nothing to do with learning how to weave. Its not hard to do, its just spamming the LA button endlessly. But THAT is data the server needs to calculate and determine if it is 'time' and it bogs everything down.

Perhaps try to learn how to LA weave correctly instead of asking for reworks that were shelved for good reason.

Arthtur

Sorry but right now LA deal nice amount of damage. Nerfing it to the point where there isn't any reason to use them is just like removing them.
If servers are so bad that we have to change how attacks work then i think its time to close the servers. And this isn't a joke.
Also if LA would be nerfed there wouldnt be any change in "casual" content because u can do it without pressing any buttons. Companions will do it for u.
Or maybe there will be a change... Because i saw some ppl who were using only LA and this would make their live harder.

Anyway this was discused a lot of times already and there were screenshots and videos of parses breaking 100k DPS on a dummy. If u want u can get even Godslayer without LA.
And i think that's enough for me. I wrote my opinion already.

I hope u can have fun in the game anyway.

Succuby

In project where i play now you do combo from skills and Left and Right mouse button clicks.

Takes more press but work perfect and fill perfect.

In teso buttons just do not press.

So reason to LA is strange looking thing, but some players like it, they think they are better than others becouse of that - it makes them special )))

Special toxics ))

Armanie

I don't know how much impact LA have on server but I agree LA being 20% of total DPS is ridiculous. Learning skills & boss mechanics to be competitive is one thing, learning how to weave feels like an unnecessary burden everyone has to deal with.