Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Its pretty obvious from what exactly? If hes alone and doesnt have the means to 1vX these players. His only option is to ambush and kill them. The OP clearly states that he was unaware these were strictly PvEers until after all the fighting.

I don't see where OP said they were unaware they were questers. Their quote: "I finish my daily, get my tickets, then hang out, ganking some of the stray AD who were hanging around the town doing their quests." It indicates: 1) They could have left; 2) They knew they were picking on stray questers and not a team of attackers.

PvEers need to stop assuming that because they are present in the zone that they somehow are entitled to some sort of reprieve from the primary purpose of the zone. If you go in there you are fair game. Simple as that. Simply questing there does not give you some special dispensation from PvP. Nor does it mean that PvPers HAVE to abide by rules of conduct where they ignore you for questing. They do not owe you that.

Is it really so much to ask for players to be considerate to each other? I don't even see this as an issue of PVP'er vs PVE'er. Do PVP'ers themselves like to be ganked when they're just doing a simple town quest that has nothing to do with factions? What do you gain from ganking questers? A few measly AP? A feeling of heroism? On the other side, however, there's a real sense of anxiety and dread, with some PVE'ers swearing off PVP totally because of this.

Let's not forget this is a game. People come to ESO to have fun, and Cyrodiil can be fun, once we're able to overcome the anxieties of getting into a PVP zone. Capturing keeps and resources can be fun (when you win), and dying in those circumstances is fair enough. But the way I see town quests, is that they're not really PVP, so why can't we let people (PVP/PVE'ers alike) do those in peace?

Anyway, I know nothing will change. The last time I was around for MYM, in 2019, the forums were exactly the same. I just wish people would see the "everyone and everything is fair game" attitude can cause real anxiety. So maybe it's not exactly against the rules. Should it be encouraged? I don't think so.

I am a PVE’r so I avoid Cyro. Those that PVE should expect PVP when In zone. Gankers who hang out at quest sites are a different thing. Gankers don’t care about PVP, they just want to kill as many PVE as possible as many times as possible. You’d think they would want a challenge. Isn’t that what its about? The challenge of fighting another player? I guess it makes the ganker feel superior somehow. I don’t know.

BretonMage wrote: »

Indigogo wrote: »

This is infuriating, no one listens when you try and explain how cyrodiil works, and how to succeed in it.

Flipping an enemy town and hanging out in it is not only inviting pvp, but you are the aggressor.

Those are hard facts.

You (your alliance) took an objective and created an enemy spawn point. It is not an innocent, harmless activity.
While I was a bit flippant earlier, the letter writer did indeed grief other pveers by taking away their home town to quest in and is just as guilty of preventing someone else from questing as the ganker.

I don't know who this comment is directed at, I'm not part of AD. That's a fair point, and it's true this particular case seems to fall in the grey area of right and wrong, more so if the letter writer was part of the team that flipped the town, rather than some random PVE'er who came in after. My posts were more about the comment that if you're in Cyrodiil, expect to be ganked. Quite simply, I don't think that's right.

And I'm confused about that. Seriously I really am no shade. It's certainly not FUN I'll give you that completely. But in a war wouldn't you expect snipers? Mines? Sneaky traps? Cyro is a 3 way war. Guerilla warfare is as old as time. Hit and run. It may be distasteful to some( not really my cup of tea either, though I've dabbled in the past) but it exists, is viable, and you should expect it even inside a "safe" keep your faction owns.

Gankers are not necessarily griefers. I mean, they're obviously trying to give enemy players grief, but that doesn't mean they're doing it to intentionally grief specific players. Sure, they might be; even in-your-face melee PvPers who would never deign to go into stealth mode can be guilty of targetting specific enemy players. But a lot of PvPers-- the majority, I suspect-- are just going after enemy players as though they're (hopefully) smarter and more powerful NPCs. You can see this if you watch them streaming on Twitch, because they're just calmly cruising through Cyrodiil or IC, dispassionately mowing down every enemy player they see and occasionally dying to them-- in which case they calmly rez and jump back into the fray for another round.

BretonMage wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Its pretty obvious from what exactly? If hes alone and doesnt have the means to 1vX these players. His only option is to ambush and kill them. The OP clearly states that he was unaware these were strictly PvEers until after all the fighting.

I don't see where OP said they were unaware they were questers. Their quote: "I finish my daily, get my tickets, then hang out, ganking some of the stray AD who were hanging around the town doing their quests." It indicates: 1) They could have left; 2) They knew they were picking on stray questers and not a team of attackers.

PvEers need to stop assuming that because they are present in the zone that they somehow are entitled to some sort of reprieve from the primary purpose of the zone. If you go in there you are fair game. Simple as that. Simply questing there does not give you some special dispensation from PvP. Nor does it mean that PvPers HAVE to abide by rules of conduct where they ignore you for questing. They do not owe you that.

Is it really so much to ask for players to be considerate to each other? I don't even see this as an issue of PVP'er vs PVE'er. Do PVP'ers themselves like to be ganked when they're just doing a simple town quest that has nothing to do with factions? What do you gain from ganking questers? A few measly AP? A feeling of heroism? On the other side, however, there's a real sense of anxiety and dread, with some PVE'ers swearing off PVP totally because of this.

Let's not forget this is a game. People come to ESO to have fun, and Cyrodiil can be fun, once we're able to overcome the anxieties of getting into a PVP zone. Capturing keeps and resources can be fun (when you win), and dying in those circumstances is fair enough. But the way I see town quests, is that they're not really PVP, so why can't we let people (PVP/PVE'ers alike) do those in peace?

Anyway, I know nothing will change. The last time I was around for MYM, in 2019, the forums were exactly the same. I just wish people would see the "everyone and everything is fair game" attitude can cause real anxiety. So maybe it's not exactly against the rules. Should it be encouraged? I don't think so.

Speaking as someone who deeply felt that anxiety when I first when to Cyrodiil for my Master Angler fish...you can't remove that anxiety for players without removing PVP.

There are some players for whom the mere risk of PVP happening starts the blood pressure rising, sets them on alert, and makes them anxious.

That's still me. I love Cyrodiil battles, but that's rather straightforward PVP that doesn't hit me with the same tension. When I quest, fish, and hunt skyshards in Cyrodiil and Imperial City, I'm still an anxious ball of nerves and I'm a PVP Legate. In doses, I can really enjoy this gameplay now, but it took me a long time to get here. There's nothing quite like that tension in the rest of PVE. I'm also really aware of my mood, and will call it quits if I'm getting too frustrated. My mantra is "I'm going to die and that's okay!"


So where does that leave us? I see a couple of options:

A. Players for whom PvPvE activities are genuinely uncomfortable can choose to skip them, thus missing out on the rewards. I think this is a excellent choice for anyone who just wants to have fun - why do something you dislike?

B. Players for whom PvPvE activities are genuinely uncomfortable can choose to seek the rewards anyway, accepting that they need to do gameplay that they don't like in order to get the rewards they want. More power to them! This is exactly how I started out.

C. Players for whom PvPvE activities are genuinely uncomfortable can choose to seek the rewards, anyway, complaining bitterly that they have to do gameplay they don't like and begging ZOS in dozens of different ways to give them the rewards without having the to play the game/event as intended.


As you probably guessed, my approach when I wanted my Master Angler fish was (B.) Yeah, I got ganked while fishing. I didn't enjoy it, but I understood that it was acceptable PVP gameplay. I accepted the risk of PVP because I wanted the reward of my fish badly enough.

I don't think that my anxiety about PVP justifies asking for a PVE-only version so that I can get those rewards without ever doing gameplay that makes me anxious.

I don't go looking for questers, but if I happen to run into one at a quest point, I always wait until they move away from the quest giver before trying to kill them.

This event I think was much better than last year or earlier, I haven't really seen much ganker camping quest point this year. Last year and earlier it was fairly common to find them ganking inside the quest buildings and such, this year the fightings in towns were mostly for strategic reason and the ownership of the town - and if a quester caught up in that they died - but beyond that if a quester left the guards and flags alone then usually nobody really bothered them.

Even ZOS says that all the Mayhem Event Ticket quests are PVP activities, so the idea that you can willingly queue up for a PVP zone during a PVP event to do PVP activities and somehow still call yourself a "civilian" is hilarious.

This is a game. We can draw all the war analogies we want, but the simple truth is that every single person in Cyrodiil or Imperial City chose to be there. They chose to participate in a PVP Event doing PVP activities in PVP zone where everyone on two enemy teams is fair game at all times. Refusing to fight is a personal choice you make that is not binding on either your alliance mates nor the enemy players who are playing the game mode as intended.

When I , as an EP player walk into Cropsford on my healer or quest in Imperial City on my fragile speedster Craglorn farmer, the only thing that matters to AD and DC players is that red shield above my head. Even if I never once raise my bow in self-defense, I am 100% a valid target at all times.

I chose to queue up for a PVP zone to do PVP activities during a PVP Event. I'm not going to pretend that I'm a "civilian" who shouldn't be touched just because I'm questing.

I think what is so interesting is why do people who are not PVPers go into Cyrodiil and do zero to prepare for Cyrodiil? Do they also go into a vet trial with their vMSA build? Do they go into vMSA on their dungeon healer build? My guess is no. So why do they come into Cyrodiil and do nothing to prepare. There are plenty of guides out there to help you survive a gank... you may not kill anyone, but if you just want to do the quests, you don't have to.

If you stand in the middle of the road , don't complain that a vehicle ran you over! No special privileges. Enter into a pvp zone you may be kill , just that simple.