Gankers at Questpoints

Arunei

FluffWit wrote: »

Accusing people of harassment isn't wise. I'd probably target them after that too.

I've had people politely message me telling me they were just questing and asking me to not to kill them. Was always happy to oblige.

But at that point it actually becomes harassment because you're purposefully going out of your way to target them, so...

Alinhbo_Tyaka

My experience as a PvE player in Cryodiil is if there is a ganker at quest locations controlled by my alliance all it takes is letting folks know in zone chat and PvP players will usually show up to take care of the ganker. After that the ganker generally leaves the area never to return. Sometimes it might take another death or two for them to get the point but in the end the quest location returns to a relaxed area to accept and turn in quests.

If the quest location changes hands during a quest it is hit or miss as to whether I will be able to continue questing. A couple of things help to at least be able to turn a quest in. First for pet classes is to be sure all pets as dismissed. Another is be obvious when approaching the quest giver taking your time. Also avoid the opposing alliance NPCs so as to not enter combat with them. If you are making it obvious you are a solo quester not out to fight or take back the town most groups will leave you alone.

Lumenn

hafgood wrote: »

Sorry but the OP's behaviour is exactly what PvErs want to hear. It feeds the idea many have that all PvPers are just horrible nasty people waiting at quest points to kill them.

Yes I know its PvP, but for many it's their first time in Cyrodiil. Ganking them just puts them off coming back. We need them to come back, we need them to learn what to do in Cyro and to learn to PvP.

Every ganked victim at a quest turn in is another potential PvPer that will probably never be back. Which is a shame.

And for many it may make them angry or determined to get revenge. Maybe it will point out a lack of skills in a game they are starting to find boring and breath a determined new life into them. Or maybe they will think it was awesome and want to be just like the op. You can't list one possible result out of a million ways someone will react and claim it's fact. Harassment is one thing, and should be discouraged but getting ganked in enemy territory when you accepted a dangerous mission? That's SUPPOSED to happen. It's a war zone. Appreciate the people that don't kill an enemy, but never expect kindness.

CP5

Lumenn wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Sorry but the OP's behaviour is exactly what PvErs want to hear. It feeds the idea many have that all PvPers are just horrible nasty people waiting at quest points to kill them.

Yes I know its PvP, but for many it's their first time in Cyrodiil. Ganking them just puts them off coming back. We need them to come back, we need them to learn what to do in Cyro and to learn to PvP.

Every ganked victim at a quest turn in is another potential PvPer that will probably never be back. Which is a shame.

And for many it may make them angry or determined to get revenge. Maybe it will point out a lack of skills in a game they are starting to find boring and breath a determined new life into them. Or maybe they will think it was awesome and want to be just like the op. You can't list one possible result out of a million ways someone will react and claim it's fact. Harassment is one thing, and should be discouraged but getting ganked in enemy territory when you accepted a dangerous mission? That's SUPPOSED to happen. It's a war zone. Appreciate the people that don't kill an enemy, but never expect kindness.

When someone is killed without a chance to even see their attacker before they die, it more often than not is off-putting. Sure, some may seek revenge or try to come up with ways to improve, but with little to no way to do so (never had a chance to fight back or did no damage when they did) they're far more likely to say "[snip] this" and leave.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Lumenn

CP5 wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Sorry but the OP's behaviour is exactly what PvErs want to hear. It feeds the idea many have that all PvPers are just horrible nasty people waiting at quest points to kill them.

Yes I know its PvP, but for many it's their first time in Cyrodiil. Ganking them just puts them off coming back. We need them to come back, we need them to learn what to do in Cyro and to learn to PvP.

Every ganked victim at a quest turn in is another potential PvPer that will probably never be back. Which is a shame.

And for many it may make them angry or determined to get revenge. Maybe it will point out a lack of skills in a game they are starting to find boring and breath a determined new life into them. Or maybe they will think it was awesome and want to be just like the op. You can't list one possible result out of a million ways someone will react and claim it's fact. Harassment is one thing, and should be discouraged but getting ganked in enemy territory when you accepted a dangerous mission? That's SUPPOSED to happen. It's a war zone. Appreciate the people that don't kill an enemy, but never expect kindness.

When someone is killed without a chance to even see their attacker before they die, it more often than not is off-putting. Sure, some may seek revenge or try to come up with ways to improve, but with little to no way to do so (never had a chance to fight back or did no damage when they did) they're far more likely to say "[snip] this" and leave.

Glad you admit to other alternative reactions. As for dying before you see their attacker or damage them back, well, I don't pvp like I used to but trust me, that happens to all of us from time to time either through inattention, game performance, SOMETHING. I DO know what you mean as I wouldn't pvp in ESO at first due to corpse campers in another game that you QUESTed in forEVER. But real griefing is hard here. In cyro and bgs you don't lose any gear, you don't have to run naked on a corpse run, you don't lose experience. You at most lose some time, in which again you accepted a dangerous mission in enemy territory in a war zone because you want whatever shiney is on the menu. You cant jump the "do not cross" line at a zoo and be mad that the lion ate you.

[edited to remove quote]

CP5

And don't expect people to want to come back if you treat newer players in pvp areas as easy marks to be killed for your own amusement.

Mik195

I just don't understand why these people can't wait until questers are done talking to the quest giver or getting the skyshard. If they are a PVPer, they can put up a good fight if you jump them before, during or after the quest giver. If they are a PVEer, you can most likely kill them after they get done. Making someone stress over their ability to get tickets or endeavor doesn't encourage people to care if ZOS keeps supporting PVP.

Kwoung

CP5 wrote: »

And don't expect people to want to come back if you treat newer players in pvp areas as easy marks to be killed for your own amusement.

Sorry, but that happens 24x7x365 in Cyrodiil, funny thing is, no one has a mark on them saying whether they are just questing, ganking, or trying to take an objective. So it is pretty hard to "target" the newer players on purpose. If however, you stroll around like you are questing in Stonefalls ignoring everything that might happen around you, you are gonna die. There are a great many of us that PVP in Cyrodiil now, because we came here for whatever reason, and ended up having fun and staying. As a matter of fact, that is probably the case with 90% of the folks who play in Cyrodiil now, our toons didn't just pop out of eggs in Cyrodiil like Raptors ready to kill anyone that comes along, every one of us started in PVE and over time, found Cyrodiil to be more fun and challenging than beating some set mechanics over and over and over.

The only bad thing that can happen to someone in Cyrodiil, is they feel emasculated because another player made their pixels lay down involuntarily, which when you think about it... really?

CP5

Some pvp'ers love making other players "pixels lay down involuntarily" because they know that by doing it, by just happening to be next to a quest turn in location that just happened to be the time of an event that draws in non-pvp'ers, they're wasting someone else's time. Some people who enjoy causing others grief go into pvp because they're able to directly interact with other players, with the intent of making their time in game worse.

Yes, death to other players is expected in these locations, but I remember the 5th year anniversary pvp week and the siege set up in quest turn in buildings. Stuff like that isn't pvp, not for an objective or a challenge, but for some player to get in anothers way by constantly wasting their time, because those who aren't prepared for pvp make for easy targets, and while this event hasn't prompted as many post like it, there was a trend for a long time of people saying things implying their coming joy at finding and griefing as many inexperienced players as possible.

Pvp'ers need to take some ownership in the fact that, while performance and balance are a poorly designed rollercoaster, that pvp is a player driven experience. Help newer players, and they may stick around longer, growing the community and giving more players to continue the experience for everyone. Indulge in the influx of newer players as a chance to get a quick power trip by driving them into the ground with little to no resistance, over and over again? There is a reason why friction exist between the two groups, and that behavior isn't helping.

starkerealm

CP5 wrote: »

There is a reason why friction exist between the two groups, and that behavior isn't helping.

I mean, I'm still thinking about the PvPers who used to hunt down RPers in the overland (mostly in taverns and inns), then would bombard the area with as many particle effects as they could manage (refreshing paths, shards, liquid lightning, ect.) with the explicit intention of crashing the RPers' clients.

There's a reason that ESO's PvP community has the reputation that it does.

Lumenn

CP5 wrote: »

Some pvp'ers love making other players "pixels lay down involuntarily" because they know that by doing it, by just happening to be next to a quest turn in location that just happened to be the time of an event that draws in non-pvp'ers, they're wasting someone else's time. Some people who enjoy causing others grief go into pvp because they're able to directly interact with other players, with the intent of making their time in game worse.

Yes, death to other players is expected in these locations, but I remember the 5th year anniversary pvp week and the siege set up in quest turn in buildings. Stuff like that isn't pvp, not for an objective or a challenge, but for some player to get in anothers way by constantly wasting their time, because those who aren't prepared for pvp make for easy targets, and while this event hasn't prompted as many post like it, there was a trend for a long time of people saying things implying their coming joy at finding and griefing as many inexperienced players as possible.

Pvp'ers need to take some ownership in the fact that, while performance and balance are a poorly designed rollercoaster, that pvp is a player driven experience. Help newer players, and they may stick around longer, growing the community and giving more players to continue the experience for everyone. Indulge in the influx of newer players as a chance to get a quick power trip by driving them into the ground with little to no resistance, over and over again? There is a reason why friction exist between the two groups, and that behavior isn't helping.

So are you suggesting that pvp shouldn't kill enemy players in their territory? Should they make them tea and tell them how long they've been looking for them? I don't pvp much anymore so I can't say WE as I'm not in it much but come on. Compared to other pvp games dying here is already kid gloves. Some players just avoid killing obvious questers and some don't. Again, lion/lions den. I've seen just as much toxicity in pve with what you're wearing, what race/class you are, what numbers you're pulling what achievements you have. Just let it be. I don't think we should make a care bear pvp for people who won't pvp. How much easier should we make it on people?

ArchangelIsraphel

As a PVE player who has come to love ESO PVP in Cyro, I want to share some tips that have helped me survive.

I know that many PVE players would rather avoid PVP all together and never participate in it. But participating in a siege where you are helping your faction obtain an Emperor can be one of your greatest assets when avoiding combat in Cyro.

Learning how PVP groups move, what their goals are, and where those leading will be heading on the map has helped me survive during times when I want to go to cyro solo and avoid PVP. Knowing what keeps are highly sought after when you see that a group is on the move can keep you alive, because you learn the most likely path that a group will take. Then you can stay completely clear of it, even moving into "enemy territory" with confidence.

You will also learn the topography of the maps and what parts of it remain largely empty for long periods of time, so that you can move through those areas to avoid combat.

Participating in siege will also teach you to watch the map itself for signs telling you were enemy players are. If you have prior experience in taking keeps and running with a group, it is then easy to predict the groups movement across the board and where they will likely be heading next.

Having such knowledge can also make you feel more empowered and less vulnerable if you are under geared or unprepaired for pvp. "Knowing your enemy" can sometimes be a better weapon than going into combat directly.

With this knowledge, I have successfully escorted PVE friends who hate PVP to do scouting missions for their tickets each day of the event without getting them killed at all. I have also been able to go to cyro to take advantage of the gathering bonus for multiple hours on end without being noticed at all. (I'm not saying this to brag about it or anything like that. I'm saying it because you can totally learn how to do this too, and it can be a lot of fun. I want you guys to realize that learning these things really does work.)

It does not guarantee that you will never get killed or run into roving parties who are looking for a fight separate from the larger groups, but ever since learning how PVP actually works in Cyro, I do not run face first into an unwanted fight as often, if at all. My experience in cyro has improved ten fold because of it, and I rather enjoy going there now.

In fact, I know it may seem like village quests are the quickest and easiest solution for a PVE player to avoid combat, but I have always found almost 100% of the time that a scouting mission is less likely to end in being noticed. A scouting mission may take longer, but with knowledge of how the board works, it can actually take less time than dealing with gankers in a village that they will target because they KNOW you are going to be there. With scouting missions, no one really knows where you are, especially if you are aware of how to slip through the board unnoticed.

I'm posting this because I see that this thread is about being ganked doing village quests, and learning these things can help you avoid going to the villages or dealing with gankers at all. Seriously, if you feel you can, try playing with a group- you might like the experience way better than the tension of trying to do a village quest.

Kwoung

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

As a PVE player who has come to love ESO PVP in Cyro, I want to share some tips that have helped me survive.

I know that many PVE players would rather avoid PVP all together and never participate in it. But participating in a siege where you are helping your faction obtain an Emperor can be one of your greatest assets when avoiding combat in Cyro.

Learning how PVP groups move, what their goals are, and where those leading will be heading on the map has helped me survive during times when I want to go to cyro solo and avoid PVP. Knowing what keeps are highly sought after when you see that a group is on the move can keep you alive, because you learn the most likely path that a group will take. Then you can stay completely clear of it, even moving into "enemy territory" with confidence.

You will also learn the topography of the maps and what parts of it remain largely empty for long periods of time, so that you can move through those areas to avoid combat.

Participating in siege will also teach you to watch the map itself for signs telling you were enemy players are. If you have prior experience in taking keeps and running with a group, it is then easy to predict the groups movement across the board and where they will likely be heading next.

Having such knowledge can also make you feel more empowered and less vulnerable if you are under geared or unprepaired for pvp. "Knowing your enemy" can sometimes be a better weapon than going into combat directly.

With this knowledge, I have successfully escorted PVE friends who hate PVP to do scouting missions for their tickets each day of the event without getting them killed at all. I have also been able to go to cyro to take advantage of the gathering bonus for multiple hours on end without being noticed at all. (I'm not saying this to brag about it or anything like that. I'm saying it because you can totally learn how to do this too, and it can be a lot of fun. I want you guys to realize that learning these things really does work.)

It does not guarantee that you will never get killed or run into roving parties who are looking for a fight separate from the larger groups, but ever since learning how PVP actually works in Cyro, I do not run face first into an unwanted fight as often, if at all. My experience in cyro has improved ten fold because of it, and I rather enjoy going there now.

In fact, I know it may seem like village quests are the quickest and easiest solution for a PVE player to avoid combat, but I have always found almost 100% of the time that a scouting mission is less likely to end in being noticed. A scouting mission may take longer, but with knowledge of how the board works, it can actually take less time than dealing with gankers in a village that they will target because they KNOW you are going to be there. With scouting missions, no one really knows where you are, especially if you are aware of how to slip through the board unnoticed.

I'm posting this because I see that this thread is about being ganked doing village quests, and learning these things can help you avoid going to the villages or dealing with gankers at all. Seriously, if you feel you can, try playing with a group- you might like the experience way better than the tension of trying to do a village quest.

That is really good advice, much akin to learning the mechanics of a dungeon, trial or any PVE content. While I do PVP, my wife and I do a great many quests in Cyro as well, where we don't want to be bothered and are generally in PVE gear, well because it makes the quests go a lot faster. Because of our experience there, we generally run into no one at all and quest in peace, even during MYM. Knowing what your doing, goes a long ways, even when your goal is to avoid it, once again, much akin to skipping content to reach a goal in PVE, because you know how and can.

CP5

Lumenn wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Some pvp'ers love making other players "pixels lay down involuntarily" because they know that by doing it, by just happening to be next to a quest turn in location that just happened to be the time of an event that draws in non-pvp'ers, they're wasting someone else's time. Some people who enjoy causing others grief go into pvp because they're able to directly interact with other players, with the intent of making their time in game worse.

Yes, death to other players is expected in these locations, but I remember the 5th year anniversary pvp week and the siege set up in quest turn in buildings. Stuff like that isn't pvp, not for an objective or a challenge, but for some player to get in anothers way by constantly wasting their time, because those who aren't prepared for pvp make for easy targets, and while this event hasn't prompted as many post like it, there was a trend for a long time of people saying things implying their coming joy at finding and griefing as many inexperienced players as possible.

Pvp'ers need to take some ownership in the fact that, while performance and balance are a poorly designed rollercoaster, that pvp is a player driven experience. Help newer players, and they may stick around longer, growing the community and giving more players to continue the experience for everyone. Indulge in the influx of newer players as a chance to get a quick power trip by driving them into the ground with little to no resistance, over and over again? There is a reason why friction exist between the two groups, and that behavior isn't helping.

So are you suggesting that pvp shouldn't kill enemy players in their territory? Should they make them tea and tell them how long they've been looking for them? I don't pvp much anymore so I can't say WE as I'm not in it much but come on. Compared to other pvp games dying here is already kid gloves. Some players just avoid killing obvious questers and some don't. Again, lion/lions den. I've seen just as much toxicity in pve with what you're wearing, what race/class you are, what numbers you're pulling what achievements you have. Just let it be. I don't think we should make a care bear pvp for people who won't pvp. How much easier should we make it on people?

What I'm saying is if you "happen to be" in a location where people turn in quest, and "happen to be" there during an even drawing in many people who normally don't pvp come in, and decide to just "stick around ganking people doing the quest," what are you expecting? A meaningful pvp fight against skilled players? Some objective? Or just easy targets to flaunt ones own ego? Consider the impact your actions have on others, since pvp depends on other player participating to continue.

Mayrael

To make it simple. If you kill EVERYONE who quest you will be fine, if you hunt just for that SPECIFIC player that can be considered as harassment. Simple as that.

BretonMage

I've nothing against PVPers who attack players from opposing factions who cross their paths. "Hanging out and ganking" questers, otoh, is particularly predatory behaviour that, even if not against TOS, is not doing the community any favours. I guess it could be the equivalent of the toxic PUG who votes to kick you from a dungeon for some ridiculous or irrelevant reason.

Lumenn wrote: »

It's a war zone. Appreciate the people that don't kill an enemy, but never expect kindness.

Sorry, no, it's a game, and we should expect kindness, or at the very least, fairness. Toxicity should never be normalised.

Northwold

CP5 wrote: »

When someone is killed without a chance to even see their attacker before they die, it more often than not is off-putting. Sure, some may seek revenge or try to come up with ways to improve, but with little to no way to do so (never had a chance to fight back or did no damage when they did) they're far more likely to say "[snip] this" and leave.

Yes. When I see this kind of behaviour in Cyro my immediate reaction is "these people are pathetic and I've got better things to do with my life". Clearly the players who engage in this sort of behaviour don't. So, you know, whatever floats their boat, I guess. But it gives me absolutely no desire to spend any more time in Cyro than is necessary.

[edited to remove quote]

moleculardrugs

VaranisArano wrote: »

Here's Gina Bruno's comment on that type of thing, screenshotted for brevity. The comments shown are on page 1 and 2. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546727/was-it-ever-confirmed-if-tea-bagging-is-against-tos-now/p1



In short, repeatedly killing questers is not -by itself- harassment. The context is PVP happening in a PVP zone.

But if you are going out of your way to target that one player or combining it with stuff like hate whispers, the context of your actions does matter.

Those are some cool glasses! I actually end up teabagging dungeon bosses or WBs if they proved difficult for our group at the time. I rarely rarely RARELY teabag other players even in PvP unless they make it their specific objective to try to kill me and only me in battlegrounds or if they camp inside a tower in Cyrodiil and tower troll rather than actually try to claim a resource or wait for more to get there to help them clear the resource.

(oh and of course I'd stop if I was asked to stop. Have never had a player ask and most definitely have never had Lady Thorn ask me to stop )

LesserCircle

Northwold wrote: »

Sorry it is harassment (even if not against the rules) and totally unnecessary. The game has included content in PvP zones that is not actually PvP and you're deliberately and repeatedly taking out people who are doing nothing to you and are trying to complete that content, so killing people in the easiest way possible, just to get yourself off. Like a school bully who isn't big enough to actually fight people who are going to fight back.

Not even remotely cool. Just be considerate of other people. You know there are PvE questers who have no interest in fighting you, you know where they are. Just leave them alone.

So if I'm a PvPer doing quests in Bruma and "They just want to pve" but that includes killing the guards and getting the flags, I should let them do it because they don't want to PvP with me?

I just don't understand why would you come to a PvP/PvE zone with full trial gear instead of at least making a tanky defensive build. You can PvE just fine with that, plus they know what they're getting into. It's just annoying having to scan each player and decide if a person is PvE or not. I see an enemy and I kill that enemy, it's that simple. If they come again and again it's their fault not mine.

There might be PvE content but it's still a PvP zone and those people not doing anything to you will be the same ones that come finish you when you're at low health or outnumbered. I will keep playing my way.

Northwold

LesserCircle wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Sorry it is harassment (even if not against the rules) and totally unnecessary. The game has included content in PvP zones that is not actually PvP and you're deliberately and repeatedly taking out people who are doing nothing to you and are trying to complete that content, so killing people in the easiest way possible, just to get yourself off. Like a school bully who isn't big enough to actually fight people who are going to fight back.

Not even remotely cool. Just be considerate of other people. You know there are PvE questers who have no interest in fighting you, you know where they are. Just leave them alone.

So if I'm a PvPer doing quests in Bruma and "They just want to pve" but that includes killing the guards and getting the flags, I should let them do it because they don't want to PvP with me?

I just don't understand why would you come to a PvP/PvE zone with full trial gear instead of at least making a tanky defensive build. You can PvE just fine with that, plus they know what they're getting into. It's just annoying having to scan each player and decide if a person is PvE or not. I see an enemy and I kill that enemy, it's that simple. If they come again and again it's their fault not mine.

There might be PvE content but it's still a PvP zone and those people not doing anything to you will be the same ones that come finish you when you're at low health or outnumbered. I will keep playing my way.

And this is in large part why many people find some elements of the PvP player base extremely off-putting. "I will keep playing my way" in this context -- of staking out quest points -- is actively antisocial.

Regarding flags, one of the more baffling curiosities of ESO regarding armouries, specifically, is that crafting writs will ask you to craft something that can only be crafted at one of the Cyro armouries. That's a separate issue but it is utterly maddening because, yes, it does require you to take the flags before you can even use the crafting station. And there is absolutely no inherent connection at all between crafting and PvP.

I think some aspects of the game's design have been poorly thought out. The crafting thing is one. The quests in a PvP area are another. But that is the way the game is. And most PvP players are aware of that. Maybe they should have put no kill zones around quest points but they didn't. Maybe they should have allowed players to enter Cyro under a neutral flag, but they didn't. So some consideration of other people is actually required.

Jack-0

CP5 wrote: »

And don't expect people to want to come back if you treat newer players in pvp areas as easy marks to be killed for your own amusement.

I see that as something of a rite of passage. All the pvpers were new once, too, and must’ve had their backsides kicked by more experienced players, and so the chain continues. People need to get over their sensitivity to this stuff, as someone else said above, it’s not like you lose anything at all on death. In Ultima Online you could have your entire corpse clean looted, THAT was something to get agitated about.

People have become so afraid and so entitled at the same time, it’s a really bad mix.

Larcomar

Kwoung wrote: »

It is almost like they think all PVPers are jerks, and if someone cut them slack, it must be a sign of weakness they can exploit. Then of course, ensues the inevitable forum posts about how they got ganked at a quest point.

That was the conclusion we came to. Or to be more precise, these "questers" were waving the white flag when they thought they'd lose but as soon as they spotted someone they thought was afk or alone or weaker then them, they suddenly turned into rambo. It was entirely opportunistic.

I had a couple of pve heroes hold block and then when I flashed them a block back to show I wouldn't attack then, they sort of... manoevred round for a few seconds while they made up their mind, decided to go for it and then unleashed their full burst combo on me. Which generally considered of light attacks. It was usually a pretty shot fight.

It would be funny, except the guild I run with in mym uses it to farm AP, do achievements, get skyshards etc and alot of *our* pve'rs come along. Some of whom don't even have pvp gear. It's a bit galling to wave at the two blues "questing," wait for them to finish their quest and let them ride off into the distance. Only to find that they promptly ganked the guy coming in late who just had to pick up that lore book on the way.

I do sometimes wonder about the narrative on this forum that has it that pve'rs are nice friendly people while pvp'rs are jerks. I see worse behaviour in pve than I ever see in pvp. And it's usually from people who are supposed to be my "team mates" rather than, you know, the guys who are there to kill me...

biminirwb17_ESO

I think many pve players think that the town gankers suddenly disappear after the event, they don't. They are always there or hiding in a delve or stealthed in a resource tower or on a well worn path. etc etc

Its a playstyle that while not my cup of tea it is preferred by some.

You are not being treated differently because you are trying to turn in a quest.

agelonestar

There's always someone in the PVP zones who take up a position of righteous indignation when they are..... yeah, PVP'd !!

What you did wasn't against ToS.

In context, I applaud you sticking around when big numbers of enemy showed up and then taking out strays. I say that as primarily a Yellow. Nice job.

However..... honour dictates that I tell you...... I've got my eye on you sunshine! hahahaha lo All's fair in love and the Alliance War.

ApoAlaia

In my personal experience 'town' gankers are rare, even during the event.

There is much more AP to be made elsewhere.

If you go through the effort of putting such a build together and learning to get the timing right with the totally unpredictable behaviour in Cyro (will my ult go off, will it not? who knows... what about the skills? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) you have other farming spots that will net better gains (and LeLs).

Said that personally I would only consider it harassment if these person(s) made a point of chasing me around the campaign(s) and farming me specifically wherever I may turn up.

That so far has not happened. Not saying is impossible or that it hasn't happen to anyone but it has not happened to me.

However if I go to turn in a quest, I get ganked, I try again later and I get ganked once more, even if is by exactly same the person(s) I would not personally consider that harassment.

I would ponder why they are wasting their time when they could be farming entire zergs by giving them the runaround at keep resources for instance, and it would be a minor nuisance, but ultimately if that is what they've chosen to do with their time, up to them.

madrab73

Gankers are at their strongest right now after they were 'balanced' by someone who mains the class. Nerf incoming next patch.

The quest givers being in towns balances danger/reward. You get AP and pvp items as reward so shouldn't be PVE only.

Lumenn

CP5 wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Some pvp'ers love making other players "pixels lay down involuntarily" because they know that by doing it, by just happening to be next to a quest turn in location that just happened to be the time of an event that draws in non-pvp'ers, they're wasting someone else's time. Some people who enjoy causing others grief go into pvp because they're able to directly interact with other players, with the intent of making their time in game worse.

Yes, death to other players is expected in these locations, but I remember the 5th year anniversary pvp week and the siege set up in quest turn in buildings. Stuff like that isn't pvp, not for an objective or a challenge, but for some player to get in anothers way by constantly wasting their time, because those who aren't prepared for pvp make for easy targets, and while this event hasn't prompted as many post like it, there was a trend for a long time of people saying things implying their coming joy at finding and griefing as many inexperienced players as possible.

Pvp'ers need to take some ownership in the fact that, while performance and balance are a poorly designed rollercoaster, that pvp is a player driven experience. Help newer players, and they may stick around longer, growing the community and giving more players to continue the experience for everyone. Indulge in the influx of newer players as a chance to get a quick power trip by driving them into the ground with little to no resistance, over and over again? There is a reason why friction exist between the two groups, and that behavior isn't helping.

So are you suggesting that pvp shouldn't kill enemy players in their territory? Should they make them tea and tell them how long they've been looking for them? I don't pvp much anymore so I can't say WE as I'm not in it much but come on. Compared to other pvp games dying here is already kid gloves. Some players just avoid killing obvious questers and some don't. Again, lion/lions den. I've seen just as much toxicity in pve with what you're wearing, what race/class you are, what numbers you're pulling what achievements you have. Just let it be. I don't think we should make a care bear pvp for people who won't pvp. How much easier should we make it on people?

What I'm saying is if you "happen to be" in a location where people turn in quest, and "happen to be" there during an even drawing in many people who normally don't pvp come in, and decide to just "stick around ganking people doing the quest," what are you expecting? A meaningful pvp fight against skilled players? Some objective? Or just easy targets to flaunt ones own ego? Consider the impact your actions have on others, since pvp depends on other player participating to continue.

Unfortunately questers aren't labled, not all questers are honorable, nonviolent, and not all of these gankers are pvp. Pve is in here eating their own maybe even worse than we do.

We'll never see eye to eye on this. I can SEE where you're coming from, but I also expected (and it happened SO many times) to get killed every time I went to a pvp zone because that's the objective. Some people will always go after the weak and new. That's why I also said some will, some won't. Appreciate the ones that don't, but don't expect it. Is it something I do? No, but I was also big into martial arts when I was a younger man(generations ago) and we were disciplined, bow before and after matches. This teabagging behavior for example is just crude to me and shows you have no class. Having also seen real combat you appreciate honor in your enemy, but expecting means you're dead.

BretonMage wrote: »

I've nothing against PVPers who attack players from opposing factions who cross their paths. "Hanging out and ganking" questers, otoh, is particularly predatory behaviour that, even if not against TOS, is not doing the community any favours. I guess it could be the equivalent of the toxic PUG who votes to kick you from a dungeon for some ridiculous or irrelevant reason.

Lumenn wrote: »

It's a war zone. Appreciate the people that don't kill an enemy, but never expect kindness.

Sorry, no, it's a game, and we should expect kindness, or at the very least, fairness. Toxicity should never be normalised.

And again, I'll say appreciate the ones who let you be, but don't expect it. If we play chess should I not take your bishop because it will hurt your feelings? If we're playing poker with fake money already and I have a winning hand should I fold because you'll be upset? Well, sometimes I will. But I'm old. I've dealt with generations of babies and children. I've also dealt with( and been) the adult who's so stressed they need ONE thing to go right today. So I might be the lion you appreciate as I let you be. If you're not hostile your AP doesn't mean much to me so have a nice day. But don't EXPECT it from others when you're in a war zone, turning a town that helps a faction with AP, you're in their territory, and they are young and hungry. Following someone is toxic. Defending a resource isn't.(I personally think it's POINTLESS for AP gain but the OP stated they were just leaving when opportunity dropped. ) What do you think we do if we need a quest done or need gear from one of the vendors there the rest of the year? Ask ep or dc to nicely step aside and please don't gank me? We either go in a grp, get good enough to do it ourselves, or cross our fingers and hope we luck out. We don't get mad someone protected their resource. We EXPECT that. The whole problem is quest givers in a pvp zone. People want the shiney, they want the pretty pretty gear, but they don't want to accept the risk involved in getting it. Pvp is part of that risk.

DragonRacer

Some of my thoughts and experiences as a many-years-long PvEr who utterly hates PvP, but clenches my teeth together for this event every year because I want the event tickets.

I have a fairly tanky PvE build. I'm sure not tanky by PvP standards at all, given I can be killed in still a relatively quick manner by a PvP player.. even when I hold my shield up the entire time trying to say "Hey, dude, I just wanna turn in my quest."

I guess the stories I see here of PvPers showing shield, then betraying that gentlemen's agreement is why I have, not a single time this entire event, had the shield respected. I will stand there, shield up, for several long moments not attacking at all, then roll my eyes as I die. Enjoy your easy AP and/or the 5-10 Tel Var I had on me, I guess. Shield means nothing in IP or Cyrodiil.

I spent a few days in the weeks before the event pre-loading IC quests on two characters and grabbing as many town quests close to AD bases as I could, in order to literally avoid actual PvP as much as possible. My goal was to be able to go in, turn in my quests, and GTFO.

Not everyone has a lot of time to play some days. This is where the issue of camping a town and repeatedly ganking or, in one instance I had, zerging PvE questers gets super annoying. "If you keep coming back over and over again, that's on you." Yeah, maybe, but if I only have 30 minutes to game that day and turned in my safe-inside-the-base IC daily, and I see a town my alliance color, my goal is to zip in, turn in quest for event tickets, and leave. You sitting there not even attempting to take the town (real PvP) and instead just killing questers repeatedly is low-brow, and people get angry because you are literally wasting someone's time/preventing a person from getting their event ticket. I know, boo hoo, but it seems more sporting, IMO, to go at someone engaging in actual PvP.

Sometimes speaking up as a quester works. Shockingly, in the days I was pre-loading IC quests, one district that was my color had some red vampire PvPer who camped one of the quest spots. I died three times to this person, even when I held my shield up and did not fight back each time. Finally, I loaded back in and put in zone chat that I was just trying to get the daily done, didn't wanna PvP (yes, in a PvPvE zone, sorry), and that I hoped they were enjoying killing someone holding up a shield and not fighting back because that had to be super fun and giving soooooo much Tel Var. They must have actually seen the message because I was left alone after that. So, that was a bravo.

Cyrodiil, on the other hand. LOL Some blues were camping a town and zerging questers at turn-in. Since it was a large group that killed me, I figured it was bad timing on my part and they must be trying to take the town. But when I checked my map... no battle symbol on that town. Travel again. Approach quest turn-in. Zerged again. So, I went back to base and grabbed a scouting mission. Rode to the butt-end of nowhere to do the report. Saw a nearby fort my alliance owned and saw one of the resources was blue. I thought, okay, let's try something. I'd never been able to solo a resource before in past Mayhems and I was a long way from home, so I thought if a resource showed under attack on the map, surely some folks would rush over to PvP and give me a blood port back home. Or, at worst, the enemy guard NPCs would do the same. It took an obscenely long amount of time because, again, tank not DPS. But the resource guards couldn't kill me and I took a resource back for my own color all by myself - which did feel pretty cool - but THE ENTIRE TIME, not a single PvP player showed. They sure did love zerging PvErs in that town 2 minutes prior, though. LOL

ArchMikem

Kwoung wrote: »

FYI, the targeting a particular player type of griefing, means you are following them with the intention of harassing that particular player by ganking them over and over. You sitting at a location and ganking anyone that comes into that area, doesn't count. If the same clown keeps running up and getting killed over and over, that is on him for being an idiot, and not you targeting a particular person. Otherwise, every keep attack would be considered griefing.

I am not a fan of ganking PVE questors at quest locations myself, but it isn't against the rules. There are PVP ways to deal with it, and if someone has an issue with it happening, should use those to solve the issue.

That person is not an idiot or a clown when they have to keep going back to the same spot to finally turn in a quest that gankers keep stopping them from doing.

Also stop name calling.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

kargen27 wrote: »

And it sure isn't good for the game. PvP needs more players. Players are often introduced to PvP through these events. If they have a horrible time of it they will not return.

Very much this. I’ve had at least three newbies grouped with me during the event.

Jack-0 wrote: »

I see that as something of a rite of passage. All the pvpers were new once, too, and must’ve had their backsides kicked by more experienced players, and so the chain continues. People need to get over their sensitivity to this stuff

Quoting this as I think this is part of the disconnect, because they don’t have to get over it. They could go back to PvE full time and Cyrodiil can continue to bleed players until ZOS shuts down the PvP portion of the game entirely. The PvErs will not care, because they do not PvP, and ZOS will not care, because the vast majority of their players will be happy with the PvE offerings (=> $$$) and they will no longer have to worry about performance in Cyrodiil. We can’t make ZOS care, but we can make the PvE crowd care by converting more of them into PvPers.

In short, if you’re going to actively discourage new people from trying Cyrodiil by going out of your way to make them miserable, don’t turn around and complain that the servers are garbage or there’s too much lag. ZOS will put their money where it will make them money, and that means putting it where more people play.