Gankers at Questpoints

TechMaybeHic

So a couple mayhems ago or so; I was heading to a town to flip it back. I saw an enemy leaving toward me, stop and step back a bit, and knowing the timing of the event; I rode by and nothing happened. I start taking a flag, then the next thing i know; that player as well as a couple others, attack me while I'm clearing the NPCs.

From how they died faster than the NPCs; I knew what they were so now I will just kill anyone I come across if they might be in play for an objective. I have better things to do than camp and gank, but my mindset will be anything that can be flipped will be taken and defended.

BretonMage

Lumenn wrote: »

Following someone is toxic. Defending a resource isn't.(I personally think it's POINTLESS for AP gain but the OP stated they were just leaving when opportunity dropped. )

OP specifically said they were "hang[ing] out, ganking some of the stray AD who were hanging around the town doing their quests". Defending resources is obviously fair PVP play, but that's not what OP was doing. If I were attacking a resource and I get killed, that's fair enough. But just going to a town and doing a quest to help refugees find supplies? That's not entirely fair, is it?

SerafinaWaterstar

On a more positive note - bored during event as needed a break from continually dying to necro ball groups in dc, so group went & did some town dailies.

In Chey, (I know it can’t be owned so no excuse for ganking there) doing dailies. Group of 5 reds also doing them. We managed to leave each other alone, and at one point, when I was hiding behind stuff near merchant to check inventory, one of them even stood in front of me and waved.

Which was nice.🙂

(But leave obvious questers alone during this event. ‘Oh I killed the pve noob’ not really something of which to be proud. Be better.)

Kwoung

ArchMikem wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

FYI, the targeting a particular player type of griefing, means you are following them with the intention of harassing that particular player by ganking them over and over. You sitting at a location and ganking anyone that comes into that area, doesn't count. If the same clown keeps running up and getting killed over and over, that is on him for being an idiot, and not you targeting a particular person. Otherwise, every keep attack would be considered griefing.

I am not a fan of ganking PVE questors at quest locations myself, but it isn't against the rules. There are PVP ways to deal with it, and if someone has an issue with it happening, should use those to solve the issue.

That person is not an idiot or a clown when they have to keep going back to the same spot to finally turn in a quest that gankers keep stopping them from doing.

Also stop name calling.

You do realize there are multiple campaigns and you can turn a quest in at a town in any of them? Preferably one in which the enemy isn't camping? Seriously, its like needing to pick up milk from one of the 2 convenience markets across from each other, and deciding to walk in the one that you can see is clearly being robbed, because you prefer that one?

Also, name calling targets a person, I targeted a behavior. People who walk out in streets looking at their cell phone instead of noticing the bus they are about to walk in front of... are idiots as well. I really don't know a better word for it.

CP5

Kwoung wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

FYI, the targeting a particular player type of griefing, means you are following them with the intention of harassing that particular player by ganking them over and over. You sitting at a location and ganking anyone that comes into that area, doesn't count. If the same clown keeps running up and getting killed over and over, that is on him for being an idiot, and not you targeting a particular person. Otherwise, every keep attack would be considered griefing.

I am not a fan of ganking PVE questors at quest locations myself, but it isn't against the rules. There are PVP ways to deal with it, and if someone has an issue with it happening, should use those to solve the issue.

That person is not an idiot or a clown when they have to keep going back to the same spot to finally turn in a quest that gankers keep stopping them from doing.

Also stop name calling.

You do realize there are multiple campaigns and you can turn a quest in at a town in any of them? Preferably one in which the enemy isn't camping? Seriously, its like needing to pick up milk from one of the 2 convenience markets across from each other, and deciding to walk in the one that is currently being robbed, because you prefer that one?

Unless the other campaigns are more heavily dominated by other factions, towns under other factions control, with other faction groups actively running in them. It isn't like 2 markets across from each other, but more like one market is close, the other is on the far side of town, and at this one you may get shanked on your way in and at the other one you'll get tossed out for not being on the right side.

Lumenn

BretonMage wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Following someone is toxic. Defending a resource isn't.(I personally think it's POINTLESS for AP gain but the OP stated they were just leaving when opportunity dropped. )

OP specifically said they were "hang[ing] out, ganking some of the stray AD who were hanging around the town doing their quests". Defending resources is obviously fair PVP play, but that's not what OP was doing. If I were attacking a resource and I get killed, that's fair enough. But just going to a town and doing a quest to help refugees find supplies? That's not entirely fair, is it?

OP said they were finishing up THEIR quests when a group came by and flipped the town so they stayed(which is what I said, and you quoted.) I.E. opportunity dropped. They did not specifically( according to them) set out to camp and hunt questers, but since the OPPORTUNITY dropped (again that's what I said according to OP and you quoted) they took it. And a town is an AP resource in cyro. I'm not sure what your trying to say here or what your point was. Was it to suggest OP was lying? Make them look that way? Idk what you're saying. But even if they did camp a town so what? It's not my cup of tea. It's unsportsmanlike and inefficient but /shrug. And OP stated that wasn't what they did so...?

Pretty sure we've covered everything already? And some of us will never see eye to eye. It's simple. Pve are getting ganked by pvp AND pve. Pvp AND pve have toxic players. Some(I would venture to say most) pvp players don't bother obvious (key word here, OBVIOUS) questers unless they bother them. some of these gankers are normally pve players as well. YOU DONT GO INTO PVP AND GET MAD THAT YOU GOT PVP'D. There are plenty of participation trophies already. If the particular "shiney" you want is worth it, you take the risk and play the game. I don't go into a dungeon for a mask and get mad the boss didn't lay down and die.

Ragnarok0130

vsrs_au wrote: »

Why did ZOS enable quests in this zone? It seems pretty obvious that PvP and PvE don't mix in a single zone. Threads like this (and there are many) demonstrate this perfectly. I'm a PvE only player, and I'll probably never enter this zone for questing, because threads like this have discouraged me from doing so.

I'm not criticising anyone, I'm just honestly confused about why a dual-use zone exists when it causes so much non-game conflict between players.

Yeah I agree with your observation. For those who want to do the PVE quests in Cyro I think a good compromise would be either to have a PVE Cyrodiil server or allow those PVE players to disable a PVP flag once they enter Cyrodiil and not be able to engage in PVP at all unless they leave the server and re-queue with a PVP flag. I know this suggestion is controversial to many PVPers but repeatedly ganking PVE guys while questing isn't going to entice them to actually try and potentially enjoy PVP it'll just sour them on PVP even more.

I will say that I used to only PVP in games like Battlefield but have actually enjoyed Cyrodiil PVP from the first time Midyear Mayhem debuted so events like Mayhem with solid PVP group leaders are the best way to introduce PVE guys to PVP in ESO IMO.

Zama666

I hate getting ganked....but

Ganker gonna Gank.

Respawn back at the keep....

Arthur_Spoonfondle

If someone is just in Cyrodiil to do quests and not participating in PVP, then just leave them alone, they're not doing you any harm.

Nobody likes the sad git ganker, who thinks deliberately making a nuisance of himself, makes him look like the big man he is not.

Ulvich

How many times must one gank another to prove they are better? Chances are good that once you gank someone you wont have to prove yourself again. Kill them once and move on.
I have yet to kill anyone at quest givers. Not my style.

belial5221_ESO

If you goto a town to take it,and kill everyone there,or going there that is ok.Hiding in a building invisible another faction owns,and constantly killing questers as they walk in or talking to npc to farm AP should not be ok.ZOS should disable invisibility in quest cities to help prevent that.Invisibility ganking is not PVP,it's just griefing,seeing usually the other person has no chance to block,or retaliate, making it one sided. People complain PVP is dying or don't get alot of people outside events,maybe if PVEers weren't discouraged by actions like this they'd be more inclined to do it more.

BretonMage

Lumenn wrote: »

OP said they were finishing up THEIR quests when a group came by and flipped the town so they stayed(which is what I said, and you quoted.) I.E. opportunity dropped. They did not specifically( according to them) set out to camp and hunt questers, but since the OPPORTUNITY dropped (again that's what I said according to OP and you quoted) they took it. And a town is an AP resource in cyro. I'm not sure what your trying to say here or what your point was.

Yes, it's pretty obvious you don't get my point. OP wasn't actually defending the resource, they weren't trying to take the town back from AD or anything. They were just picking on random questers. Whether they set out to gank, or decided to gank after questing, it was still a decision they made. You yourself said setting out to hunt questers was "unsportsmanlike", so it seems you agree it isn't fair. You seem to draw the line at camping at towns, though to me, WHEN a player makes the decision to gank is hardly relevant.

My point initially anyway, was that ganking random questers is toxic and shouldn't be normalised. Yes, there's toxicity in both PVE and PVP, and very recently during the Undaunted event, the forums were similarly full of players complaining about toxic PUGs. That toxicity happens at all shouldn't function as encouragement for more toxicity to occur.

TechMaybeHic

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

If you goto a town to take it,and kill everyone there,or going there that is ok.Hiding in a building invisible another faction owns,and constantly killing questers as they walk in or talking to npc to farm AP should not be ok.ZOS should disable invisibility in quest cities to help prevent that.Invisibility ganking is not PVP,it's just griefing,seeing usually the other person has no chance to block,or retaliate, making it one sided. People complain PVP is dying or don't get alot of people outside events,maybe if PVEers weren't discouraged by actions like this they'd be more inclined to do it more.

If I'm by myself with 35 enemies; the only strategy to contest the point, which like it or not, the point of these quests being in the PvP zone is to make it contested; would be to "gank" or otherwise hit and run.

You all misunderstand quests in Cyrodiil as being PvE because of what they're objectives explicitly require. Capturing a flag even is not directly an objective that requires PvP yet are the primary focus of Cyrodiil. But they are PvP quests because they exist in a PvP zone.

And it's not like all gankers only go for the PvEers. There are quite a few that will wait out and ignore any objective in Cyrodiil hoping to get a chance to take down the best players they can find. It's just the threat we all deal with in Cyrodiil and frankly adds some excitement

VaranisArano

ArchMikem wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

FYI, the targeting a particular player type of griefing, means you are following them with the intention of harassing that particular player by ganking them over and over. You sitting at a location and ganking anyone that comes into that area, doesn't count. If the same clown keeps running up and getting killed over and over, that is on him for being an idiot, and not you targeting a particular person. Otherwise, every keep attack would be considered griefing.

I am not a fan of ganking PVE questors at quest locations myself, but it isn't against the rules. There are PVP ways to deal with it, and if someone has an issue with it happening, should use those to solve the issue.

That person is not an idiot or a clown when they have to keep going back to the same spot to finally turn in a quest that gankers keep stopping them from doing.

Also stop name calling.

Nobody has to keep going back. There's lots of other ways to get event tickets.

I've been that quester who's a target of opportunity.

I've been the quester who's a target of opportunity multiple times in quick succession because I kept going back to the same spot or running past the same group of PVPers.

It didn't stop me from getting my tickets. It just reminded me about the wisdom of not doing the exact same thing if I want a different result.

Mythgard1967

Also on a Positive note....

I also got a tell from an opposing faction this weekend.....

I am a below average PVP'r...I will never be a good or great one. I Love playing cyro and joining a big group clashing with another big group. It is fun. Sometimes I will play BG. I do NOT enjoy IC. It is too...crazy and skill dependent. I did step into IC this weekend and even found a couple people to group up with.

Had a good time; learned some things.

I do run a PVP build; but I haven't really played enough to learn "best practices". I was running AD and someone from DC sent me a few tells giving me some advice on strategies and how to play in IC. I figured they could probably tell I was newb; but, that I was actually trying to learn. This person even held off ganking me when I got separated from my group so I could make my way back.

It was generally in the vein of "how not to get baited" and "how to hold a point".

The upshot?? I just might make my way back to IC.....

Northwold

I made a poll on whether there should be a neutral flag.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/599161/neutral-flag-in-cyrodiil-for-pve-players

Nomadic_Atmoran

BretonMage wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

OP said they were finishing up THEIR quests when a group came by and flipped the town so they stayed(which is what I said, and you quoted.) I.E. opportunity dropped. They did not specifically( according to them) set out to camp and hunt questers, but since the OPPORTUNITY dropped (again that's what I said according to OP and you quoted) they took it. And a town is an AP resource in cyro. I'm not sure what your trying to say here or what your point was.

Yes, it's pretty obvious you don't get my point. OP wasn't actually defending the resource, they weren't trying to take the town back from AD or anything. They were just picking on random questers. Whether they set out to gank, or decided to gank after questing, it was still a decision they made. You yourself said setting out to hunt questers was "unsportsmanlike", so it seems you agree it isn't fair. You seem to draw the line at camping at towns, though to me, WHEN a player makes the decision to gank is hardly relevant.

My point initially anyway, was that ganking random questers is toxic and shouldn't be normalised. Yes, there's toxicity in both PVE and PVP, and very recently during the Undaunted event, the forums were similarly full of players complaining about toxic PUGs. That toxicity happens at all shouldn't function as encouragement for more toxicity to occur.

Its pretty obvious from what exactly? If hes alone and doesnt have the means to 1vX these players. His only option is to ambush and kill them. The OP clearly states that he was unaware these were strictly PvEers until after all the fighting. So if he was targeting them before that. He was doing so under the assumption (and rightly so considering the environment) that they were open to PvP as that is what you are consenting to when you enter Cyrodiil.

PvEers need to stop assuming that because they are present in the zone that they somehow are entitled to some sort of reprieve from the primary purpose of the zone. If you go in there you are fair game. Simple as that. Simply questing there does not give you some special dispensation from PvP. Nor does it mean that PvPers HAVE to abide by rules of conduct where they ignore you for questing. They do not owe you that.

DragonRacer

CP5 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

FYI, the targeting a particular player type of griefing, means you are following them with the intention of harassing that particular player by ganking them over and over. You sitting at a location and ganking anyone that comes into that area, doesn't count. If the same clown keeps running up and getting killed over and over, that is on him for being an idiot, and not you targeting a particular person. Otherwise, every keep attack would be considered griefing.

I am not a fan of ganking PVE questors at quest locations myself, but it isn't against the rules. There are PVP ways to deal with it, and if someone has an issue with it happening, should use those to solve the issue.

That person is not an idiot or a clown when they have to keep going back to the same spot to finally turn in a quest that gankers keep stopping them from doing.

Also stop name calling.

You do realize there are multiple campaigns and you can turn a quest in at a town in any of them? Preferably one in which the enemy isn't camping? Seriously, its like needing to pick up milk from one of the 2 convenience markets across from each other, and deciding to walk in the one that is currently being robbed, because you prefer that one?

Unless the other campaigns are more heavily dominated by other factions, towns under other factions control, with other faction groups actively running in them. It isn't like 2 markets across from each other, but more like one market is close, the other is on the far side of town, and at this one you may get shanked on your way in and at the other one you'll get tossed out for not being on the right side.

Not to mention the whole "purposefully wasting another player's time when they obviously just want to turn in a quest". You can't just hop from one campaign to another while in Cyrodiil, from what I can tell. You either have to get back to base and leave via wayshrine to PvE land, then queue for another campaign and wait. Or queue for IC, enter, then queue for another Cyrodiil campaign, and wait.

So, it's really not a choice between two convenience stores across from each other. It's more like having to leave the convenience store you are already in, drive across town, and hope that convenience store will work. And if it doesn't, drive another 30 minutes across town to try another one again.

Nomadic_Atmoran

DragonRacer wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

FYI, the targeting a particular player type of griefing, means you are following them with the intention of harassing that particular player by ganking them over and over. You sitting at a location and ganking anyone that comes into that area, doesn't count. If the same clown keeps running up and getting killed over and over, that is on him for being an idiot, and not you targeting a particular person. Otherwise, every keep attack would be considered griefing.

I am not a fan of ganking PVE questors at quest locations myself, but it isn't against the rules. There are PVP ways to deal with it, and if someone has an issue with it happening, should use those to solve the issue.

That person is not an idiot or a clown when they have to keep going back to the same spot to finally turn in a quest that gankers keep stopping them from doing.

Also stop name calling.

You do realize there are multiple campaigns and you can turn a quest in at a town in any of them? Preferably one in which the enemy isn't camping? Seriously, its like needing to pick up milk from one of the 2 convenience markets across from each other, and deciding to walk in the one that is currently being robbed, because you prefer that one?

Unless the other campaigns are more heavily dominated by other factions, towns under other factions control, with other faction groups actively running in them. It isn't like 2 markets across from each other, but more like one market is close, the other is on the far side of town, and at this one you may get shanked on your way in and at the other one you'll get tossed out for not being on the right side.

Not to mention the whole "purposefully wasting another player's time when they obviously just want to turn in a quest". You can't just hop from one campaign to another while in Cyrodiil, from what I can tell. You either have to get back to base and leave via wayshrine to PvE land, then queue for another campaign and wait. Or queue for IC, enter, then queue for another Cyrodiil campaign, and wait.

So, it's really not a choice between two convenience stores across from each other. It's more like having to leave the convenience store you are already in, drive across town, and hope that convenience store will work. And if it doesn't, drive another 30 minutes across town to try another one again.

Doesn't matter. If the convenience store doesnt have the reese cups you so desperately need. You are still going to drive across town for your reese cups or wait for them to get more.

DragonRacer

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

FYI, the targeting a particular player type of griefing, means you are following them with the intention of harassing that particular player by ganking them over and over. You sitting at a location and ganking anyone that comes into that area, doesn't count. If the same clown keeps running up and getting killed over and over, that is on him for being an idiot, and not you targeting a particular person. Otherwise, every keep attack would be considered griefing.

I am not a fan of ganking PVE questors at quest locations myself, but it isn't against the rules. There are PVP ways to deal with it, and if someone has an issue with it happening, should use those to solve the issue.

That person is not an idiot or a clown when they have to keep going back to the same spot to finally turn in a quest that gankers keep stopping them from doing.

Also stop name calling.

You do realize there are multiple campaigns and you can turn a quest in at a town in any of them? Preferably one in which the enemy isn't camping? Seriously, its like needing to pick up milk from one of the 2 convenience markets across from each other, and deciding to walk in the one that is currently being robbed, because you prefer that one?

Unless the other campaigns are more heavily dominated by other factions, towns under other factions control, with other faction groups actively running in them. It isn't like 2 markets across from each other, but more like one market is close, the other is on the far side of town, and at this one you may get shanked on your way in and at the other one you'll get tossed out for not being on the right side.

Not to mention the whole "purposefully wasting another player's time when they obviously just want to turn in a quest". You can't just hop from one campaign to another while in Cyrodiil, from what I can tell. You either have to get back to base and leave via wayshrine to PvE land, then queue for another campaign and wait. Or queue for IC, enter, then queue for another Cyrodiil campaign, and wait.

So, it's really not a choice between two convenience stores across from each other. It's more like having to leave the convenience store you are already in, drive across town, and hope that convenience store will work. And if it doesn't, drive another 30 minutes across town to try another one again.

Doesn't matter. If the convenience store doesnt have the reese cups you so desperately need. You are still going to drive across town for your reese cups or wait for them to get more.

And when the sale on Reese's Cups ends, the convenience store gets to enjoy only seeing its patron customers again instead of any added blood. LOL

SeaGtGruff

Larcomar wrote: »

as soon as they spotted someone they thought was afk or alone or weaker then them, they suddenly turned into rambo.

That reminds me of the time I killed a Grand Overlord. I was in Cyrodiil a few years ago for some AvA PvE (scouting missions and solo-capturing resources) with some impromptu "running with the zerg and sieging keeps" thrown in. I don't think it was during a PvP event, just a normal day in Cyrodiil. I had a mission to somewhere near EP's base, so I ported as close as I could, which was Bleaker's Outpost. Earlier I'd been there helping DC take it from EP, and it had passed back and forth between the alliances all night while everyone played Ring Around Rumare. Anyway, I leave Bleaker's, hop on my mount to ride toward the NE corner of Cyrodiil, and as I'm riding away I pass by an EP who's crouched in stealth mode as though waiting for backup to go retake Bleaker's. At first I just ride past, but then I think, they're obviously waiting to retake the outpost, so why not? So I turned around and rode back and forth until I unstealthed them again, then started attacking. They never fought back at all, but I was determined to stop them from retaking the outpost, so I kept whacking away, and whacking away, and whacking away. Finally they died, and then this message pops up-- Achievement earned, Kill a Grand Overlord. I'm guessing they must have parked their character there in stealth and gone AFK or something, and it was cool to get the achievement (although not so much how I got it), but at the time all I could think was, "Oh, poop, I think I just painted a big red X on my back!"

Larcomar wrote: »

I had a couple of pve heroes hold block and then when I flashed them a block back to show I wouldn't attack then, they sort of... manoevred round for a few seconds while they made up their mind, decided to go for it and then unleashed their full burst combo on me.

I've had a few players attack me in IC, then stop when I stood there holding block. In those cases I always turn from them and do whatever it was I was originally trying to do-- such as splash an urn with annointed oil-- then run off to do the next quest objective. If they keep attacking me rather than stopping because I'm holding block, I may or may not fight back, but when I do I never expect to actually win-- although on a few occasions I've managed to kill the other player, to my great surprise, or fight to a draw. If the quest involves killing and possibly looting NPCs, or freeing citizens, then I'll often just ignore the attackers and focus on trying to kill and loot an NPC before I get killed by the enemy player(s), or trying to kill the NPCs so the citizen(s) can go free. In some of those cases I'll manage to complete the quest just before I get killed, so they get AP and X from killing me, and I get a quick trip back to base to turn in my completed quest-- a win-win.

But I don't block, wait for the attacker to stop, and then start attacking them back. If someone does that to you, they might be hoping for an easy kill, but I think some PvE players just freak out and don't stop to think straight. I'll always leave any enemy players alone in neutral quest towns in Cyrodiil, or if I see them in delves or at quest objectives trying to kill Black Daggers, or Minwe, or whoever. One time I rode up to the quest giver at Weynon Priory to turn in a quest and grab another one. Another DC player rode up just ahead of me, and as I dismounted I saw that there was an EP player already standing there as well. There was a short pause after I dismounted while the other DC player interacted with the quest giver, then suddenly the EP player started to attack me. I fought back, I think the other DC player may have joined in, and in a second the EP player was dead. In hindsight I think maybe they just freaked out and started attacking as a way of saying "Go away! Go away! Go away!"

Then again, there are players who will attack an enemy player or enemy NPC in order to deliberately get killed so they can rez back at base, so that might have been what happened. I think I ran into someone like that the other day. I had just finished killing Grey Vipers at Wooden Hand Outlook for a Fighters Guild bounty and was mounting up to head back north when out of the blue an EP player attacked me. I had just completed my bounty quest, so getting killed would have given me a quick trip back to base, but I'd already decided to ride over to Carmala Outpost to try to help DC take it from EP, so I decided to oblige them by fighting back. I attacked, but they never fought back after their initial attack, just turned to face away from me and stood there while I whacked on them, not trying to fight back or run away. My DPS is below average (which I actually enjoy), so it took several long seconds to kill them, but I gave them a quick trip back to base if that's what they wanted. I wasn't sure if I should feel bad for attacking them back while they pointedly stood there facing away, or feel good about helping them get to base in a hurry.

DragonRacer wrote: »

I have a fairly tanky PvE build. I'm sure not tanky by PvP standards at all, given I can be killed in still a relatively quick manner by a PvP player.. even when I hold my shield up the entire time trying to say "Hey, dude, I just wanna turn in my quest."

I guess the stories I see here of PvPers showing shield, then betraying that gentlemen's agreement is why I have, not a single time this entire event, had the shield respected. I will stand there, shield up, for several long moments not attacking at all, then roll my eyes as I die. Enjoy your easy AP and/or the 5-10 Tel Var I had on me, I guess. Shield means nothing in IP or Cyrodiil.

That sounds a lot like me, except most of the time I don't mind getting killed. If I'd been having a bad day before cranking up the game, then I might get frustrated about being repeatedly ganked while trying to do a quest, but most of the time I'll just rez, head back, and try again, rinsing and repeating as many tines as needed to finally complete the quest. Usually I'm able to finish without it taking too long, but sometimes it does take a while.

ArchMikem wrote: »

That person is not an idiot or a clown when they have to keep going back to the same spot to finally turn in a quest that gankers keep stopping them from doing.

As far as getting your tickets during the PvP event goes, there's no reason the PvE quester can't go do some other quest for their tickets and wait until another time to turn in that particular town quest.

But it isn't the same if there's a daily endeavor to complete a quest for a specific town, because if you're trying to get that daily endeavor then you do absolutely need to be in that town. I mean, you could do one of the other daily endeavors instead, but in some cases you might have already done the two that were the easiest for you, and the endeavor for the Cyrodiil town quest might be the easiest of the remaining three, so you might feel like you don't have a lot of choice. If you're a PvP player, I think it's just good manners to leave enemy PvE players alone when they're in a town for the quests, which goes double if there's a PvP event on and players are just trying to farm event coffers, or if there's an endeavor that day for completing a quest in that town. If both are true-- a PvP event plus a daily endeavor-- then I think it goes triple.

But it's a PvP war zone, so getting attacked and possibly killed by enemy players is to be expected. Good manners are not to be expected in Cyrodiil or IC, but that just makes them all the more awesome when they do occur.

Mik195

It's ZOS' fault, but if you are killing "enemies" at the quest givers, your toon is a not a good person. The town quests are mostly/not all about helping civilians (saving them from dremora, kepping the town's books safe, helping priest heal better, etc.). Maybe ZOS shouldn't have created the town quests or made them war-related.

NordSwordnBoard

It would help to remove the doors from places that require entry for quests. The worst is Crops because the inside is so small, no hiding from an AoE in there. If you need the door loading delay to kill people, you are bad.

They took the doors off towers partly because of the loading effect - and it caused a concentration of players to get farmed.

If I'm not waiting on an enormous defense tick, I will gladly help people kill quest gankers. Part of the problem is towns reward as much AP as a resource yet have 3 flags. Defense of the nearby castles is both easier and more rewarding. So, PvPers don't always jump at the mention crops is under attack by gankers when something bigger is going down.

The endeavor quests might be better served in towns like Cheydinhal and Chorrol, places with no campaign significance.

Lumenn

BretonMage wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

OP said they were finishing up THEIR quests when a group came by and flipped the town so they stayed(which is what I said, and you quoted.) I.E. opportunity dropped. They did not specifically( according to them) set out to camp and hunt questers, but since the OPPORTUNITY dropped (again that's what I said according to OP and you quoted) they took it. And a town is an AP resource in cyro. I'm not sure what your trying to say here or what your point was.

Yes, it's pretty obvious you don't get my point. OP wasn't actually defending the resource, they weren't trying to take the town back from AD or anything. They were just picking on random questers. Whether they set out to gank, or decided to gank after questing, it was still a decision they made. You yourself said setting out to hunt questers was "unsportsmanlike", so it seems you agree it isn't fair. You seem to draw the line at camping at towns, though to me, WHEN a player makes the decision to gank is hardly relevant.

My point initially anyway, was that ganking random questers is toxic and shouldn't be normalised. Yes, there's toxicity in both PVE and PVP, and very recently during the Undaunted event, the forums were similarly full of players complaining about toxic PUGs. That toxicity happens at all shouldn't function as encouragement for more toxicity to occur.

Again you seem to...twist words. I actually said I (personally) think setting out to camp a town is unsportsmanlike. And guess what? Who CARES what I think. I'd prefer a straight up sword and board open fight you can see a mile away but that leaves us with fewer classes now doesn't it. That's the beauty of an mmo. You get all kinds of people from all over who think differently. OP didn't even set out for that, it just happened so yes, when does make a difference. And you can tell pure questers from pvp doing quests 100% of the time? Even if everyone had your super power QUESTERS ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM PVP IN A PVP ZONE. It's part of the game and the risk you take when you decide you want whatever is in that zone badly enough to take it. If you can't accept getting killed by players don't go to a zone who's FOCUS is killing players. I know I'm old, and some of my views are outdated, but honestly walking into a lions den really expecting not to get eaten because it wouldnt be "fair" ...again, camping a town isn't my cup of tea. But for many it is. And it's a VALID way to play in pvp. Just because I wouldn't do it and you think it's not fair, doesn't make it invalid.

Lumenn

Mik195 wrote: »

It's ZOS' fault, but if you are killing "enemies" at the quest givers, your toon is a not a good person. The town quests are mostly/not all about helping civilians (saving them from dremora, kepping the town's books safe, helping priest heal better, etc.). Maybe ZOS shouldn't have created the town quests or made them war-related.

To be fair, the pve quests are full of killing people because someone said they're bad and making several choices on who's soul you have to sacrifice. Completely stressed a lawful good playthrough I had...

VaranisArano

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

It would help to remove the doors from places that require entry for quests. The worst is Crops because the inside is so small, no hiding from an AoE in there. If you need the door loading delay to kill people, you are bad.

They took the doors off towers partly because of the loading effect - and it caused a concentration of players to get farmed.

If I'm not waiting on an enormous defense tick, I will gladly help people kill quest gankers. Part of the problem is towns reward as much AP as a resource yet have 3 flags. Defense of the nearby castles is both easier and more rewarding. So, PvPers don't always jump at the mention crops is under attack by gankers when something bigger is going down.

The endeavor quests might be better served in towns like Cheydinhal and Chorrol, places with no campaign significance.

Yep. I keep asking ZOS to do this.

It's just a matter of consistency. If it's not okay for PVPers to get farmed in a load screen transition at resources, then questers deserve the same ability to defend themselves.

Alternatively, use the Imperial City story quest solution and just slap a sanctuary effect inside the building. You have to make it to the door, but once inside, you're safe.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

LesserCircle wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Sorry it is harassment (even if not against the rules) and totally unnecessary. The game has included content in PvP zones that is not actually PvP and you're deliberately and repeatedly taking out people who are doing nothing to you and are trying to complete that content, so killing people in the easiest way possible, just to get yourself off. Like a school bully who isn't big enough to actually fight people who are going to fight back.

Not even remotely cool. Just be considerate of other people. You know there are PvE questers who have no interest in fighting you, you know where they are. Just leave them alone.

So if I'm a PvPer doing quests in Bruma and "They just want to pve" but that includes killing the guards and getting the flags, I should let them do it because they don't want to PvP with me?

I just don't understand why would you come to a PvP/PvE zone with full trial gear instead of at least making a tanky defensive build. You can PvE just fine with that, plus they know what they're getting into. It's just annoying having to scan each player and decide if a person is PvE or not. I see an enemy and I kill that enemy, it's that simple. If they come again and again it's their fault not mine.

There might be PvE content but it's still a PvP zone and those people not doing anything to you will be the same ones that come finish you when you're at low health or outnumbered. I will keep playing my way.

Bruma isn't really a good example as a player can do all of the quests there without raising the attention of the guard NPC's if they are careful.

TechMaybeHic

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Sorry it is harassment (even if not against the rules) and totally unnecessary. The game has included content in PvP zones that is not actually PvP and you're deliberately and repeatedly taking out people who are doing nothing to you and are trying to complete that content, so killing people in the easiest way possible, just to get yourself off. Like a school bully who isn't big enough to actually fight people who are going to fight back.

Not even remotely cool. Just be considerate of other people. You know there are PvE questers who have no interest in fighting you, you know where they are. Just leave them alone.

So if I'm a PvPer doing quests in Bruma and "They just want to pve" but that includes killing the guards and getting the flags, I should let them do it because they don't want to PvP with me?

I just don't understand why would you come to a PvP/PvE zone with full trial gear instead of at least making a tanky defensive build. You can PvE just fine with that, plus they know what they're getting into. It's just annoying having to scan each player and decide if a person is PvE or not. I see an enemy and I kill that enemy, it's that simple. If they come again and again it's their fault not mine.

There might be PvE content but it's still a PvP zone and those people not doing anything to you will be the same ones that come finish you when you're at low health or outnumbered. I will keep playing my way.

Bruma isn't really a good example as a player can do all of the quests there without raising the attention of the guard NPC's if they are careful.

Bruma might have the most traffic of the 3 towns though. It's smack dab in the middle of 1 keep and 2 outposts.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I am not a ganker, but I have certainly dabbled in it over the years.

While I sort of get the intrigue of doing it in IC because the PVEers in there likely have telvar to steal, I still don't think its the best way to farm Telvar if that is your goal. IC gankers are certainly out there. Best thing to do is build to be tanky. IC gankers dont want a fight because they have their own stones to worry about. Give them even the semblance of one, and most will vanish.

In Cyro, it makes absolutely no sense to gank Towns for questers unless you literally are learning to gank and want easier targets. Cyro players dont have telvar to steal and a quester is not going to be worth diddly squat in AP. While I wont say it never happens, I cannot remember the last time I was ganked in a town in Cyro. Personally, getting ganked is perhaps my favorite activitiy. I love popping a detect pot and watching them freak out.

Mostly, I think the problem is wildly overstated. And the solutions are very straight forward. Gankers use stealth to prey on squishy appointments with quick kills. Dont be squishy, perhaps learn a few stealth counters its not complicated. Most are terrible in a straight up fight, because they simply arent built for it. You dont even have to win said fight, just make it last longer than 5 seconds. They will move on.

PVP is not for everyone, and no denying the learning curve is steeper than a lot of areas of the game. That said, for the most part, only your pride and maybe a little time is at risk. Learning to be tanky really isnt that complicated.

Mythgard1967

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

In hindsight I think maybe they just freaked out and started attacking as a way of saying "Go away! Go away! Go away!"

OMG; this is so true and it is me. My first time in Cyro; I was there for Skyshards and delves. Before going; I prepared. I outfitted the character for PVP...knowing full well...I wouldn't win in any fight...but you know...it is all learning experience.

I ventured in. I stayed off pathways and watched where I was on the map...trying to avoid direct lines from objective to objective.

I saw no one else for like an hour. I had managed to get some things done.

I was in a delve heading down (in an area my faction controlled but was very distant from base) and ran into my first ever seen enemy player. Ohhh red name with a shield over his head. I knew I was dead. But dang it...I was gonna at least dent him before going down. He backed into a corner and I killed him. There was maybe a token resistance.

I felt the rush of OMG I killed a PVPer!!! It lasted all of 5 seconds before the brain kicked in and said "you just killed some poor guy who was doing the same as you only he was way further from a spawn point". I still feel a little guilty about needlessly slaughtering that "enemy" nightblade.

That nightblade was probably out there thinking "I HATE PVP and PVP'ers and i was so close to my LAST skyshard or Delve!!!"