PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Elsonso · February 2022

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, who from Microsoft is in charge / oversees Zos (or Bethesda or whichever)?

This won't matter. ZOS has people running it. XBox does not sit there and manage things for ZOS. Even if such an email, or media conversation, attracts enough attention for XBox to ask, ZOS will simply explain what is going on, and why, and that will be the end of it.

From what I know, there is one person in the whole world that really matters in this, and if they cannot be convinced to change plans, then plans will not change. Having met him, I will say that he did not come across as someone who is so stubborn that he will never change his mind, but he will need a compelling reason to do it (rightly so). He can't afford to be wishy-washy, so reasons need to be solid and more compelling than what prompted the decision to do it.

Not impossible, but rather unlikely. That said, I remain somewhat hopeful that he will see the error of his ways, repent, and change his mind.

tmbrinks wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Since this will soon be the 3rd week of testing in what is normally 5 weeks per PTS cycle.

If no changes to this in patch 7.3.2 which is the third week patch. What are the odds are that its going as is live?

If no changes in X.2 patch, I'd put it at >98% it goes live.

Currently I'd say it's in the >75% it goes live.

90% as of the first drop of PTS, 99.99% after the second drop, 100% if no changes, or only bug fixes in third.

(Edit: it should be "100%" for all PTS drops, but I always like an out.

)

Saieden · February 2022

Vrienda wrote: »

Okay so am I to understand that several quests, events and pretty much all delve/world boss and their associated first-time completion exp will be gone?

When I first heard about this I -presumed- it would be like WoW's version of account wide achievements. But all this is doing is making it harder to grind skilllines (Undaunted) and to level up (With the first time exp being removed).

All the while you won't make skill points or skyshards account wide (The latter without cost). Am I to presume to public dungeon event skill points are gone too or what?

What's the point of this? Just make all the rewards (titles) account wide and call it a day.

As I've understood it till now, you get the first time xp bonus, but as soon as you walk within map reveal range, it is marked white on your map as complete, including inactive dolmens. You also won't trigger any respawns of bosses in delves if they've recently died.

tomofhyrule · February 2022

Saieden wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

Okay so am I to understand that several quests, events and pretty much all delve/world boss and their associated first-time completion exp will be gone?

When I first heard about this I -presumed- it would be like WoW's version of account wide achievements. But all this is doing is making it harder to grind skilllines (Undaunted) and to level up (With the first time exp being removed).

All the while you won't make skill points or skyshards account wide (The latter without cost). Am I to presume to public dungeon event skill points are gone too or what?

What's the point of this? Just make all the rewards (titles) account wide and call it a day.

As I've understood it till now, you get the first time xp bonus, but as soon as you walk within map reveal range, it is marked white on your map as complete, including inactive dolmens. You also won't trigger any respawns of bosses in delves if they've recently died.

But what you also miss out on is the bonus XP from getting an achievement. You'll get the 'location discovered' XP and the basic XP from killing the boss (when it finally respawns), but there's also some XP that is awarded from getting achievement points as well. Those are now gone, making it harder to level characters/grind CP.

Granted, a delve boss 5 point achievement doesn't really do much XP-wise, but something like the dungeon slayers in a vet DLC is a nice helping of XP and will usually pop another CP point for you.

Jaraal · February 2022

majulook wrote: »

Since this will soon be the 3rd week of testing in what is normally 5 weeks per PTS cycle.

If no changes to this in patch 7.3.2 which is the third week patch. What are the odds are that its going as is live?

The simple fact that they are working on a Q&A to clear up our "confusion" tells you that they are going to go ahead and push this out to live. It's sad, in light of some of the heartwarming stories presented here, that they are going to needlessly throw some of their most passionate customers under the bus like this.

It would have been nice if they had given more advanced notice, so we could have had more of an opportunity to get more achievements done on our characters before it all becomes a moot point. But the development schedule and the ever changing "vision" is always the first priority.... not the customers.

KMarble · February 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

@DarcyMardin summed it up perfectly. It is heartbreaking.

I honestly don't know how anyone could think this is a good idea. Why build this vast beautiful world then take away our ability to explore it? Why let us create unique characters that develop their own personalities then make them all just blend into one?

It's already a shame how some players skip everything and power level in huge mobs in Alik'r. I was in that zone earlier and someone was advertising to level players from level 3 to 50 in 1 hour and 15 minutes.

Is this really how you envisioned your game, ZoS? Because this change is a huge step in that direction.

I've noticed that the game has been shrinking* for a while now.

The last time we got a little surprise when fishing was in Murkmire (a new furnishing fish).

The last time stealing gave us something interesting was in Elsweyr (multiple furnishings). I'll go further and say that the enticement for stealing was pretty much abandoned after TG and DB. Did you know there are secret caches in both Hew's Bane and Gold Coast? AFAIK those only exist there. It was, IMO, a nice addition that was abandoned soon after inception.

The collection quests have been incorporated into the antiquities system starting with Blackwood. In hindsight, it was pointing to some sort of global achievement, since we can only do those once. They also cut out the story that was used to get you started in those.

Last year we saw the most ill-conceived world event so far. An event where players should gather with the same goal that was set in a separate instance, and then players would get even more scattered since there are 3 different paths (instances) to get to the final boss.

Every expansion, until last year, had at least 3 daily quests. CWC and S. Elsweyr had 4. Blackwood and Fargrave only have two.

*not only in terms of how long it takes to finish each zone's story and side quests, but also the amount of side content/fun things you can get that would keep (at least some) players still exploring a zone.

Vrienda · February 2022

Saieden wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

Okay so am I to understand that several quests, events and pretty much all delve/world boss and their associated first-time completion exp will be gone?

When I first heard about this I -presumed- it would be like WoW's version of account wide achievements. But all this is doing is making it harder to grind skilllines (Undaunted) and to level up (With the first time exp being removed).

All the while you won't make skill points or skyshards account wide (The latter without cost). Am I to presume to public dungeon event skill points are gone too or what?

What's the point of this? Just make all the rewards (titles) account wide and call it a day.

As I've understood it till now, you get the first time xp bonus, but as soon as you walk within map reveal range, it is marked white on your map as complete, including inactive dolmens. You also won't trigger any respawns of bosses in delves if they've recently died.

I just tested this on the PTS. You get only basic exp for discovering it. Killing the boss gives no bonus. Same story for world bosses and dolmens.

This means that a way I really enjoyed using to level (Delve running), is no longer possible.

This is abysmal. This has to be one of the worst changes they've ever made to the game. If you finished everything you literally can only level alts by mob grinding, pvp, dungeons or questing. All the exploration objectives are automatically complete (But you still have to do into the delve to get the skyshard because money).

old_scopie1945 · February 2022

Vrienda wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

Okay so am I to understand that several quests, events and pretty much all delve/world boss and their associated first-time completion exp will be gone?

When I first heard about this I -presumed- it would be like WoW's version of account wide achievements. But all this is doing is making it harder to grind skilllines (Undaunted) and to level up (With the first time exp being removed).

All the while you won't make skill points or skyshards account wide (The latter without cost). Am I to presume to public dungeon event skill points are gone too or what?

What's the point of this? Just make all the rewards (titles) account wide and call it a day.

As I've understood it till now, you get the first time xp bonus, but as soon as you walk within map reveal range, it is marked white on your map as complete, including inactive dolmens. You also won't trigger any respawns of bosses in delves if they've recently died.

I just tested this on the PTS. You get only basic exp for discovering it. Killing the boss gives no bonus. Same story for world bosses and dolmens.

This means that a way I really enjoyed using to level (Delve running), is no longer possible.

This is abysmal. This has to be one of the worst changes they've ever made to the game. If you finished everything you literally can only level alts by mob grinding, pvp, dungeons or questing. All the exploration objectives are automatically complete (But you still have to do into the delve to get the skyshard because money).

Or by using the Crown Store. The plan is coming together now.

jad11mumbler · February 2022

majulook wrote: »

Since this will soon be the 3rd week of testing in what is normally 5 weeks per PTS cycle.

If no changes to this in patch 7.3.2 which is the third week patch. What are the odds are that its going as is live?

100% from day one is my bet.
Has ZoS ever changed much from the PTS because of player feedback?
I've rarely seen them even acknowledge feedback.

silvereyes · February 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

It's already a shame how some players skip everything and power level in huge mobs in Alik'r. I was in that zone earlier and someone was advertising to level players from level 3 to 50 in 1 hour and 15 minutes.

Power leveling doesn't necessarily mean people are "skipping everything". There are lots of reasons for a player to do so.

Me personally, I've already done all of Cadwell's Gold back in the pre One Tamriel days, and most of the side quests as well. I also regularly re-do content, whenever the fancy strikes.

However, I do power level all my new characters (using master writs; it's faster, and it doesn't bother others).

After the first character, I find the sub CP 160 experience annoying on new alts. I generally know what I'm doing now, and I want do be able to play with all my build's skills. I know about and actively build around gear sets, and I don't want gear drops to be outleveled in an hour.

On live today, I essentially have something like a Game Plus mode, where I can play through everything again and collect everything again, but I keep my CP, gear and collectibles. I really like this mode, and it's provided me with hundreds of hours of enjoyment. The bosses are way too easy, but otherwise, it's fun to replay objectives and stories.

What we have on PTS is awful. By making a bunch of zone objectives account-wide, the devs are absolutely gutting that way of playing.

SilverBride · February 2022

silvereyes wrote: »

What we have on PTS is awful. By making a bunch of zone objectives account-wide, the devs are absolutely gutting that way of playing.

That is the way a lot of us play. I spend most of my time doing quests and clearing maps. It takes a long time to complete all these on a character and I get side tracked if I run into something interesting along the way which makes it take even longer. But I don't mind because the journey is where I find my enjoyment.

I am not one to go along with 'doom and gloom' and 'it's the end of the world', but in this case it feels like both.

Vrienda · February 2022

I'm gonna be blunt. I've been subscribed to this game since early access on the 31st of March 2014 with the only break I can remember being in Elsweyr when my bank account locked up during the payment for a few days.

If this change goes through I'm done.

Completely done.

You gut alt levelling? That's it. I can live with Undaunted being more obtuse and annoying to grind. But I absolutely refuse to let you lock me out of content of redoing certain story content (collection quests) and getting exp on my alts for exploration activities.

I love this game. I WHALE for this game.

Don't. Do. This.

Tandor · February 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

What we have on PTS is awful. By making a bunch of zone objectives account-wide, the devs are absolutely gutting that way of playing.

That is the way a lot of us play. I spend most of my time doing quests and clearing maps. It takes a long time to complete all these on a character and I get side tracked if I run into something interesting along the way which makes it take even longer. But I don't mind because the journey is where I find my enjoyment.

I am not one to go along with 'doom and gloom' and 'it's the end of the world', but in this case it feels like both.

I play that way too. Every one of my 50 or so characters does quests, crafting, fishing, zone completions etc, not because I'm a completionist and and want them all to do everything but because that's how I enjoy playing the game - and getting the rewards and achievements for those things on each of them is part and parcel of that. If that way of playing multiple characters is effectively taken away then I'll just press on with my single character on my new third account and mothball the other two accounts, which would include cancelling their 6 monthly subscriptions of course.

Elsonso · February 2022

Tandor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

What we have on PTS is awful. By making a bunch of zone objectives account-wide, the devs are absolutely gutting that way of playing.

I am not one to go along with 'doom and gloom' and 'it's the end of the world', but in this case it feels like both.

If that way of playing multiple characters is effectively taken away then I'll just press on with my single character on my new third account and mothball the other two accounts, which would include cancelling their 6 monthly subscriptions of course.

Too soon to burn bridges.

I pre-ordered High Isle, so I will be around until at least some time in July. Maybe not as often, though. After that, it will be much more clear which bridges to burn.

Xarc · February 2022

why not everything shared EXCEPT achievement/titles from PVE dungeon/trials and PVP ?

Tandor · February 2022

Elsonso wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

What we have on PTS is awful. By making a bunch of zone objectives account-wide, the devs are absolutely gutting that way of playing.

I am not one to go along with 'doom and gloom' and 'it's the end of the world', but in this case it feels like both.

If that way of playing multiple characters is effectively taken away then I'll just press on with my single character on my new third account and mothball the other two accounts, which would include cancelling their 6 monthly subscriptions of course.

Too soon to burn bridges. I pre-ordered High Isle, so I will be around until at least some time in July. Maybe not as often, though. After that, it will be much more clear which bridges to burn.

I agree that we don't know the final outcome yet, but I'm focusing on my single character account for now and will take a decision on the other account subscriptions before they come up for renewal in March and May. I don't have the stomach to play those characters meanwhile given the threat to their individuality. I would never delete them, just park them.

SilverBride · February 2022

Xarc wrote: »

why not everything shared EXCEPT achievement/titles from PVE dungeon/trials and PVP ?

Because some of us care about museum achievements and being able to track if that character has done this delve yet, etc.. Some of us don't want our "good" characters to have thief or dark brotherhood titles and reputations. There are a multitude of reasons why not.

Elsonso · February 2022

Tandor wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

What we have on PTS is awful. By making a bunch of zone objectives account-wide, the devs are absolutely gutting that way of playing.

I am not one to go along with 'doom and gloom' and 'it's the end of the world', but in this case it feels like both.

If that way of playing multiple characters is effectively taken away then I'll just press on with my single character on my new third account and mothball the other two accounts, which would include cancelling their 6 monthly subscriptions of course.

Too soon to burn bridges. I pre-ordered High Isle, so I will be around until at least some time in July. Maybe not as often, though. After that, it will be much more clear which bridges to burn.

I agree that we don't know the final outcome yet, but I'm focusing on my single character account for now and will take a decision on the other account subscriptions before they come up for renewal in March and May. I don't have the stomach to play those characters meanwhile given the threat to their individuality. I would never delete them, just park them.

My plan is to park all of my PC characters, except for Anniversary and High Isle, and for those two things, one character and only one character will ever be played. I do have my XBox account, which I used to play daily until recently, where ESO Plus does not expire until this summer. I will likely spend some time there, as I only play one character on XBox. I do have the transfer characters from PC, which are 2015 versions of my PC characters, that I will delete before U33 comes out. They are just there because I have not bothered to delete them, just in case I need them for some reason. I won't be needing them.

ArchangelIsraphel · February 2022

Tandor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

What we have on PTS is awful. By making a bunch of zone objectives account-wide, the devs are absolutely gutting that way of playing.

That is the way a lot of us play. I spend most of my time doing quests and clearing maps. It takes a long time to complete all these on a character and I get side tracked if I run into something interesting along the way which makes it take even longer. But I don't mind because the journey is where I find my enjoyment.

I am not one to go along with 'doom and gloom' and 'it's the end of the world', but in this case it feels like both.

I play that way too. Every one of my 50 or so characters does quests, crafting, fishing, zone completions etc, not because I'm a completionist and and want them all to do everything but because that's how I enjoy playing the game - and getting the rewards and achievements for those things on each of them is part and parcel of that. If that way of playing multiple characters is effectively taken away then I'll just press on with my single character on my new third account and mothball the other two accounts, which would include cancelling their 6 monthly subscriptions of course.

This. Exactly this. Well said! For so many of us, the achievements are not about a completionist mentality or a need to get every single achievement on every single character. That's not what we need or how we feel. We may attain them all, we may not. What achievements are about is a record of a journey taken with a specific character.

All I can say is, I feel a great sense of loss when I play my newest characters, knowing that all I achieve with them will be wiped away, and that I will never have the opportunity to go out and get these achievements with any character ever again.

Vrienda · February 2022

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

Would love an update on this soon. Really wanna know if this auto-completion for delves, dolmens, abyssal geysers and world bosses is intentional or a product of how achievements used to work. As well as the quests and 'world events'/random encounters with characters tied to achievements.

SerafinaWaterstar · February 2022

Preparing for the worst & for the exciting new game add-on, Elder Spreadsheets Online.

This just sucks all the fun & joy out of my gaming. Am very very sad about this.

And reading some of the posts on here, where people have shared their joy in this game, how it has helped through dark times - and then getting feeling that Zos cares not a jot about this but will push this through regardless makes me angry. They don’t deserve some of the lovely players this game has.

PeacefulAnarchy · February 2022

I really hope there's an update soon because this thread has over 1000 replies, which is more than any PTS thread in the past three years (maybe longer, I gave up after 250 pages). Only 4 threads have even half as many replies.

Razakel13 · February 2022

I'm not opposed to AWA on principle but I can't understand why ZOS would implement it in such a way as to render playing on multiple characters totally pointless. Don't they want people to, y'know, play their game?

It feels like this was implemented in the way that required the least amount of thought and effort on their part. If this is such a problem for people that they feel like they "have" to "grind" for achievements (I want to ask these people why they're playing a game they don't enjoy but that's a whole other thread), I'd be fine with rewards and titles going account-wide, but for the love of Todd, please leave per-character achievement tracking alone.

Many others in this thread more articulate than myself have made it clear why this is such a distressing change. I'm a huge single-player Elder Scrolls fan and was looking forward to having similar journeys with many different characters in this game. I just want to say that if this goes live as it is currently implemented on the PTS, I will unsubscribe, uninstall and not look back. I've subbed and spent money on crowns and had planned to continue to do so, but I've mainly been using ESO as an off-game between updates for a certain alliterative, roman-numeral'd competitor. Coming from that game, and not really having played any other MMOs, between the current AWA implementation, the grotesque monetization, and the PVP situation, it is shocking to see the lack of appreciation and consideration ZOS seems to have for its community.

DUTCH_REAPER · February 2022

tmbrinks wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Soooo I’ll still be able to “play” any content I want? Check
I am still the person “playing” the characters in game? Check
When I make a new character, I can get to endgame content quicker on the new character bc I already earned the achievements on a character I have been playing for 8 years? Heck yes!

Do it ZOS!!!!! Yaaaaassss

Nope

Your second toon will still have to unlock and level all the skills, do quests and the like but it will actually take you longer because you won't be able to repeat some things, and you won't be able to tell things like which delves and public dungeons you've done, which skill points you've unlocked from questlines etc any more when you need skill points.

You'll also (as it stands) no longer be able to get multiple of some of the objects you can get now.

There is no 0-50 button and the CP behaviour hasn't changed from the existing server wide behaviour.

About the only thing you will be able to do is paste an achievement on one character that you did on another when someone is asking for proof for trials. I think you can assume trial people will be taking a different approach, although actually you can do that today with a friend as you can repaste someone else's achiveement anyway.

Well if that is the case I would recommend people go now and get multiples of the furnishing items they want before it goes live. As far as delves when I make a new character I just buy all the sky shards now. I don’t make new characters to RP. I like Pvp and doing trials and dungs. It’s so repetitive having to get all these achievements. I can’t remember when the last time I was asked to “show” a title for proof. Either I have the screen shots of a parse and am able to perform on trial or I’m not. This doesn’t affect me. Just makes it easier to select a title I guess? And the only ones I care about are Former Emperor and Warlord. But if ZOS can make achievements global to where I don’t have to grind something out I would love that!

So, your answer to breaking something in the game is "well, just do it before they break it..?"

I can't see how that is acceptable to anybody.

Lol didn’t mean it like that. It is obvious many people play this game differently. Hopefully the devs and solve this.

Wolfkeks · February 2022

As someone who wants AwA I definitely agree with everyone here that the systems needs to be reworked.

One of my chars still can't finish the Litany of Blood quest they started before AwA came to the PTS (feels a bit like Schrödingers Achievement, can't finish the quest, but it is kinda finished 🙃) and I noticed that when I wanted to buy PvP achievement furnishings on my DC character that I can't do that for some reason (though my EP char had the achievements for that). Not sure if this is intended or not but it seems a bit bugged.

There are lots of good solutions people came up with that should make both sides happy and I hope that we'll get an update regarding this soon. 🤘

TheImperfect · February 2022

OK I'm going to say it, I really hate this.

wolfie1.0. · February 2022

Elsonso wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Well if that is the case I would recommend people go now and get multiples of the furnishing items they want before it goes live. As far as delves when I make a new character I just buy all the sky shards now. I don’t make new characters to RP. I like Pvp and doing trials and dungs. It’s so repetitive having to get all these achievements. I can’t remember when the last time I was asked to “show” a title for proof. Either I have the screen shots of a parse and am able to perform on trial or I’m not. This doesn’t affect me. Just makes it easier to select a title I guess? And the only ones I care about are Former Emperor and Warlord. But if ZOS can make achievements global to where I don’t have to grind something out I would love that!

So, your answer to breaking something in the game is "well, just do it before they break it..?"

I can't see how that is acceptable to anybody.

I am reasonably certain that there are role players, not me, who are taking screen shots of all of their achievements so that they can start journaling the exploits of their characters outside of the game itself. I don't find that acceptable, either.

Although, wise was the person who recognized years ago that ESO was very lean in this area and is already doing it. I would have never imagined that ZOS would do what they they have on PTS right now. I guess that if it matters, don't depend on an in-game feature to continue to do it, do it yourself.

Maybe some addons that can help the PC people on this point...
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info580-HarvensQuestJournal.html#info
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1991-Notebook2018.html#info

you are assuming that ZOS doesn't break the addon, and that the mod author will keep it updated. We shouldn't HAVE to rely on 3rd party stuff to track character progression. that should be native.

newtinmpls · February 2022

Raevenglass wrote: »

For so many of us, the achievements are not about a completionist mentality or a need to get every single achievement on every single character. That's not what we need or how we feel. We may attain them all, we may not. What achievements are about is a record of a journey taken with a specific character.

All I can say is, I feel a great sense of loss when I play my newest characters, knowing that all I achieve with them will be wiped away, and that I will never have the opportunity to go out and get these achievements with any character ever again.

I am so sad for this.

And frankly this is why I've not yet purchased the next chapter.

This takes a LOT of the fun out of the game for me.

wolfie1.0. · February 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

@DarcyMardin summed it up perfectly. It is heartbreaking.

I honestly don't know how anyone could think this is a good idea. Why build this vast beautiful world then take away our ability to explore it? Why let us create unique characters that develop their own personalities then make them all just blend into one?

It's already a shame how some players skip everything and power level in huge mobs in Alik'r. I was in that zone earlier and someone was advertising to level players from level 3 to 50 in 1 hour and 15 minutes.

Is this really how you envisioned your game, ZoS? Because this change is a huge step in that direction.

If this goes live they might as well just roll out template characters with all of the goody bags, 3600 cp, and all gear sets unlocked and 1 billion gold, and all quests marked complete.

newtinmpls · February 2022

Razakel13 wrote: »

I'm not opposed to AWA on principle but I can't understand why ZOS would implement it in such a way as to render playing on multiple characters totally pointless. Don't they want people to, y'know, play their game?.

Well....

Apparently those of use who run multiple characters on multiple accounts and like to explore differently on the different characters don't spend as much money as those who just want account wide everything.

Supposedly there are enough tracking sub-programs that if a lot of people had characters they played significantly differently, it would have shown up.

OTOH...I've studied statistics and 90% of it is asking the right question the right way and collecting the right type of data with the right sampling system

Vevvev · February 2022

jad11mumbler wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Since this will soon be the 3rd week of testing in what is normally 5 weeks per PTS cycle.

If no changes to this in patch 7.3.2 which is the third week patch. What are the odds are that its going as is live?

100% from day one is my bet.
Has ZoS ever changed much from the PTS because of player feedback?
I've rarely seen them even acknowledge feedback.

Only time I've seen it is with the light and heavy attack changes during one PTS cycle that had such terrible feedback and game breaking madness associated with it that they scraped it entirely. In essence make the light attacks restore resources and the heavy attacks be the primary damage dealing attacks. Led to light attacks still dominating because now you'll never run out of resources, and heavy attack builds becoming monster scary in the PvP duels that took place.