Vet ranks: a terrible idea

Cthulu · April 2014

I personally like the idea of the vet levels. You get to play through the zones/stories of all the factions so you aren't endlessly grinding the same dungeons over and over again to level up. In my opinion this is one of the few things they did right.

Not only does it allow them to recycle the content, so makes life a little easier on the development end, but as I've mentioned, it allows the players to see all of the game, in its entirety, without having to make several characters just to play the other factions.

alterfenixeb17_ESO · April 2014

terroristKMKZ wrote: »

Craglorn will be coming out soon, and I have a vet rank 1 templar. Don't get me wrong I love the PVP but it hardly awards any vet XP, it would take years to get up to vet rank 10 playing PVP. And I refuse to grind low-level quests in other zones just so I can play the new zone.

I signed up for these forums just to make this topic. This is my first post ever here. Please consider allowing ALL vet ranks to enter craglorn or whatever new zones you come out with. This game has had a lot of problems and very disappointing group content, but hey the games only been out a month, and I think it looks like it could have a very promising future if the grouping was just a little bit better (I bought the game hoping there would be 6 player and 12 player dungeons, but nope... I found myself going back to LOTRO because the game has better grouping and that game is free)

LotRO is free up to around level 35 (still with limits). After that either sub or pay for content. I don't deny the fact that their business model is not really that bad and actually works for people that do not rush the content (it can be cheaper than paying sub really) but still it is paid content.

Also care to read patch notes from PTS?

guterreeb17_ESO · April 2014

I love the "read the patch notes for 1.1" ppl you do know double of 42 is 84?! and that in pool of 2million 84 isn't exactly relevant...
We should be getting at least 600 to 1k xp per vet mob, I actualy try and skip as many mobs as I can to the quest objective, because they are a inderense to lvling, I get no xp from them I get not chalenge either, just a long asstime to kill them.
So I just bolt escape or mistform my way to quest objectives or to the skyshard/boss of a dungeon and on my way to the next.

wrlifeboil · April 2014

The one thing that stands out in VR zones are how empty the zones are. It's almost like playing on a low pop realm in WoW before the devs there started merging servers.

I don't mind playing on empty realms. Just saying that in eso the contrast between starting in a leveling zone like Khenarthi's Roost as a level 1 compared to starting it as a VR rank player was very noticable.

Aci · April 2014

Well, I heard rumors that you can hit and click to instant max level in another known mmo, and you can do raids there night and day. But! This is not ESO. Actually I dont care that leveling takes that long, and yes, many things take their time in this game. Good for me.

I hope the devs wont listen too much to impatient customers. But I also hope there will be also more group content to keep people busy.

What I hope for is housing, new intruments or notes i could play with my char, some balance fixes for pvp that wont affect pve so much.

Somebody raged yesterday:
"Gameplay is such a fail, this mainquest is impossible. I dont want to use other skills to finish this quest, I dont want to try it again in one or two level, I dont want to try a different tactics, I ..."
This really happened and I REALLY hope gameplay never becomes like he demanded.

daraganyrygyb16_ESO · April 2014

Mk , just do main quest ,dolmen , world boss and public dungeon for every zone and you will be vet 10 + dolmen , world boss and some dungeon are group things if no one have noticed.+ Craglorn will be a zone entirely for group. And If you want to level in pvp you can. Ive pvped for a week and get from vet 4 to 7 yes its longer but you can do it and it change from pve

ataw · April 2014

If vr is not changed or modified to be funner i will not be renewing my sub

i'm already unsubed i will give it a month before they start fixing stuff because the customer base flys away i will not be paying till than

BrassRazoo · April 2014

Just play the game.
Your subscription has barely even started and you already want to be max level.
It is supposed to be an adventure and an experience.
Develop your build and skills and enjoy it.
Be patient and take your time, I don't understand what everyone's rush is.
The game is not going to go away overnight and it can only get better in time and so should you.
I suspect many of the people who are VR10 already used an exploit or two to get there anyway.
As far as I'm concerned they will be nowhere near as good as a character with a full compliment of skill points if they have not done any quests or gone through the VR levels as designed.
If they only have the skill points from level 1-50 plus a few dungeons and if they get a few from PvP the will be very limited (and should be) in what their one main can do.

Lausanna · April 2014

I like the idea of leveling through the other faction's content at least once. But I am going to have alts and probably won't want to do this on all of them.

My main character is my "overachiever" who I want completing everything. But my alts are more specific, some are more RP'd characters, so they aren't going to want to do their enemy's quests. And aside from that, I'm not going to want to do every single quest 8 times. (assuming I ever have time in my life to level that many alts, which is highly unlikely, but if I did, I'd want options).

I vote for keeping the current system, but also adding more options, so that people who aren't interested in doing all that questing multiple times don't have to. I kind of assume that this is the plan anyway though. Right now most of us only have one character so it's not such a hardship, but down the road they're going to have to add more options or leveling alts is not going to be a good time.

Perseas · April 2014

yes but u cannot progress guys... it gives u a quest and at vet5 the quest renew again for the second alliance. So you cannot get 10 vet lvls, without doing the main story of all 2 extra alliances. (only if you avoid ALL side quests and do only the main stories).

dragnar12 wrote: »

sorry we rushed the game out
cus we wanted your money
we knew that the new mmo,s releasing soon ( name,s here )
would take eway money from our game
ty for your money
we did not have end game content
so we just made other factions the end game ( smart right ? )
any way ty for your money TY TY TY TY TY
now could u plz give us more so we can get a bigger car ?

we promise we will add expansive items to the shop
like a 20 usd horse saddle ( so u can give us more money )

most of u bought our imperial edition
so we know u like pay walls in our game
and we promise we will add more of those in the future !

we love u !

ps there are no bugs
just restart your computer or type /camp
or disable your addons

intriguing comment! I always said so, they are in Hawaii now and dancing hula hoop, with lots of girls and buzz.
I just need a clear answer from zenimax about the game economy. The game economy is based in guilds, not all people joining guilds and that automatically means, the game has no economy for a big human population! What are they planning? Are they planning anything?

They advertised ESOelite forum system, but its not working... Nobody will join forums to buy an item! I did 1 week ago, but nothing... lol

If they dont give us clear updates about what they plan to do with the economy, I may have to pause the game, there is no point for me if there is no economy!
COD is broken and trying to sell via the chat is considered as spam... So I am avoiding it.

stokesc · April 2014

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Just play the game.
I suspect many of the people who are VR10 already used an exploit or two to get there anyway.
As far as I'm concerned they will be nowhere near as good as a character with a full compliment of skill points if they have not done any quests or gone through the VR levels as designed.
If they only have the skill points from level 1-50 plus a few dungeons and if they get a few from PvP the will be very limited (and should be) in what their one main can do.

You sure about that? That's a very sweeping statment that you have no facts to back it up with....

Anyway, the Vet content is good in the fact it gives you a chance to experience the other factions quest lines. However there's now not a great deal of appeal to lvl my alts as I've done all the story\side quests in those zones and now knowing all the bugs in certain quests I'm even less likely to start going through the motions again until it's all sorted.

At the end of the day though, Craglorn is for all Vet lvls so if you don't want to do the additional content/alliance zones you don't have to. Will you be at a disadvantage, yes but again that's your choice. Plenty of options out there...

Robbiejuve · April 2014

dawnhawk wrote: »

Veteran levels are the time sink that would normally be taken up by "heroics" or various other mechanic that requires you to perform basic progression toward increasingly difficult end game content.

I don't agree with the OP but if veteran ranks in this game simply require more quest grinding, how is that producing a better player?

I don't play it but I think the MMO that shall remain nameless got it right. A raid level for the casual player where almost no mechanic can kill you and then build from there to accommodate the more dedicated guilds.

The gear or the encounter isn't the same so what do the elitist have against it?

I like questing, I don't mind doing it for my VR but it isn't making me a better raider.

JexTex · April 2014

The veteran rank system is a joke and very poorly thought out...they will lose alot of subs due to the veteran rank system.....this isnt the first mmo ever someone should tell them that...

BrassRazoo · April 2014

stokesc wrote: »

You sure about that? That's a very sweeping statment that you have no facts to back it up with....

Sure? No. I said "suspect" and yes I do have proof in the form of confessions.
It is not a mystery and people freely admit it and enjoy the fact that they got there cheaply and try and troll people who do it legitimately.
Good on them, does not bother me but it is worth a mention.

dawnhawk · April 2014

Robbiejuve wrote: »

I don't agree with the OP but if veteran ranks in this game simply require more quest grinding, how is that producing a better player?

My personal experience? It doesn't "simply require more "solo" (sic) quest grinding".

Since I'm presuming that is what you were actually asking.

Some of the quests when tuned to VR are a royal pain to do solo, in fact there are threads about them on these forums. There are the VR dungeons for grouping. Most of us* actually group up for dolmens (as in we actually form a party) - and the one that I've seen that didn't was an utter mess. We* also tend to at least partner up for public dungeons (not the solo dungeons).

* again "in my personal experience" - I can't speak to how everyone ELSE plays the game, but I play it as an mmo...with other people.

SunfireKnight86 · April 2014

Vet ranks are terrible. They seem like they were thought up at the last minute in an attempt to make the world feel more "open", but just came off as another form of level corridor. Some of you say that Vet ranks are meant for groups, but as a well built nightblade I've only had trouble with MAYBE 2 or 3 quests in the entire game. (Anything involving mobs that can't be stunned/knockbacked which is almost nothing) I can stealth past almost everything and can hold my own against 3-4 mobs on my level easily.

Let's look at WoW for comparison, since it's the big dog on campus.
-The story is terrible and so silly that most people I know skip the dialogue. Its a tangled mess.
-It has tons of zones full of solo content that can be done in a different order if you want to branch out. They don't railroad you into taking the same path as everyone else until the end of the game, and even then there is plenty of room to chose. Groups quests are also found in every zone.
-a huge PvP community that is actually balanced,
-tons of dungeons and raids for group players both as you level and at the end, -admittedly bad crafting,
-an auction house that lets people get rich if they want to play it.
-You can reach cap in multiple ways, (PVP, group, or solo)
-you're forced to gear up at the end in only two ways (PVP or raids)

ESO by comparison:

-A fun story that is solo only; actively forcing players to make it a solo game about 10% of the time.
-Has 19 zones, all of which are soloable and MUST be played in order to reach cap. There is no variation except which 5 zones you do first.
-There are 16 normal dungeons and six (I think it's six) "heroic" dungeons. Those are literally the only time you have to group. Hell, if you wait five minutes at an anchor or worldboss people will show up and you can just help take them down without ever grouping up. No coordination required.
-The crafting is fun, but if they add raids it will become as pointless as it is in WoW. Better drops coming from endgame 12 mans/ rare crafting mats coming from the same raids means that it's a time sink with no payoff. They haven't done this yet, but it looks like they're leaning that way.
-The auction system is laughably bad as it stands. Selling in/zone is much better/
-PvP is actually better, but its reliant on you doing the PvE content to level to the point where you can do it well, and its broke as all get out right now.
-You can only reach cap one way.
-Its not a super gear dependent game. A skilled v10 in blue can take a turd in gold.

Now we have Craiglorn, which is forced group only. In what way is this open world? Just because we can chose what skills we want as we level up outside of class? That gets crapped on by the fact that they give us enough SP to get damn near everything if we want it. By the time you run everything almost every class build looks pretty damn similar.

DON'T GET ME WRONG! ESO is way more fun to play than WoW, and the Elder Scrolls IP blows it out of the water. The combat is sooooo much more fun than any other MMO that it's silly it took people this long to combine action and MMO.

As it stands though veteran ranks took out any incentive I had to go back and play again. Why bother? I've seen everything and I have every skill except for 9 lines that other classes get! They should have just capped at 50, made it slower, and called it GG. With Craiglorn being group only, and PvP being busted as all *** with the DK/Vamp crap going on, odds are good I will be pausing my sub for a year or so after I'm finished dicking around by the end of May. In a year and change when they've added a lot more content I will come back and play that.

sinz_xb16_ESO · April 2014

I agree with people who are saying that this game doesn't make it very attractive to level alts as you will be doing 100% the exact same content as your main character.

I do like Veteran Ranks however, it's a nice way to further progress your character.

I think to make alts more attractive they should increase XP gained in PvP. In Warhammer Online I didn't even touch the PvE areas because I could fully level up during PvP which I loved about that game. I made so many alts there because of that. Would love to see that happening in this game as well!

Wreaken · April 2014

terroristKMKZ wrote: »

Craglorn will be coming out soon, and I have a vet rank 1 templar. Don't get me wrong I love the PVP but it hardly awards any vet XP, it would take years to get up to vet rank 10 playing PVP. And I refuse to grind low-level quests in other zones just so I can play the new zone.

I signed up for these forums just to make this topic. This is my first post ever here. Please consider allowing ALL vet ranks to enter craglorn or whatever new zones you come out with. This game has had a lot of problems and very disappointing group content, but hey the games only been out a month, and I think it looks like it could have a very promising future if the grouping was just a little bit better (I bought the game hoping there would be 6 player and 12 player dungeons, but nope... I found myself going back to LOTRO because the game has better grouping and that game is free)

So here is my question, why would you as a veteran 1 character want to enter an area that is mechanically designed for people who are veteran 10+? What could you possible hope to achieve?

Borondir · April 2014

I had no problems reaching the next vr rank before i go to the next veteran area. Maybe you don't do every quest, skipped the dungeons, ignored the pvp daily quest and killed only monsters when really needed.

I was vr 6,5 after leaving the first veteran faction. And i really don't care how long it takes till the next level. I know that i will be vr 10 before i finish all veteran areas and thats enough. Veteran areas are the end game at the moment, beside the veteran dungeons and pvp. This was well known before release. Accept it or go back to WoW.

rashkosh127ub17_ESO · April 2014

As far as I read, they are doubling the amount of vet xp you get from pvp kills in the craglorn update. I am almost positive vet xp does scale up the higher vet level you are (atm I get about three times as much vet xp per kill as I do alliance points.) Double that with the release of craglorn and I bet leveling through pvp to v12 will be completely viable. Will questing be faster? Probably.. but at least there will be options.

For those who are complaining and also don't like pvp... If you don't like the story driven quests or the mass scale of pvp, what exactly did you come to ESO for?

Shillen · April 2014

I love the veteran ranks. I really didn't want to make characters in the other factions just to experience their quests.

If you hate questing rest assured they are boosting the VP gains from mobs and PvP so you won't have to quest.

GreasedLizard · April 2014

2x kill xp is still not enough of a change.

Need 10x lol. I can get 650xp or more from a kill in early Coldharbor @ L45, absolutely dreading VR

I am also a completionist, so I have taken my time in AD, and got all the Skill Pts, worked on many weapon, guild lines.

There will be a point in the very near future, where I won't feel much for character progression, and I will be shoe-horned into only method of advancement in levels (ranks)

Sure I'd like to experience the other zones, most like as an alt though. Maybe one for sure lol.

People have suggested getting the 'Silver' bosses, dungeons, dolmens etc all done to hit VR3, and then start running the very first quests. Your vet XP will be 3x for quest rewards and will keep in line nicely all the way through that campaign.

Of course, that requires people and coordination. And this crap is so set to solo questing. VR areas are dead, and phasing, even when trying to be synced, fails often.

CaptainSilverbrow · April 2014

This is among the laziest time sinks I've seen in gaming. They couldn't even have opened up new faction-related storylines that opened up tripartite-contested versions of the opposing faction's zones wherein you're running quests to advance your faction's interests in those zones, they just shoehorn you into them playing for the other factions in phases relegated to initial faction affiliation. This could have been a great way to advance the PvP element and competition, so long as the incursors' camps were secured by elite NPC guards, or even just he PvE element while keeping the story going.

This completely destroyed several of the game's compelling elements, and people are already leaving (which can't be seen, as with new games, there are people coming in just as fast); two of my guilds, both of which consisted almost entirely of beta players, don't even log in anymore. It hasn't even been a full month. Bravo, ZOS, who else could manage deconstructing in one fell swoop something that took years to build?

Stravok · April 2014

Vet leveling was fun at first but got old quick to me. This is just my opinion and people like different things out of game-play. BUT...I really would not like to do that all over with my alts. I do see one major advantage in vet leveling it makes you learn how to pay your toon more effectively and makes you use different builds and skills that you might not have used in 1-50 leveling.

For those that keep saying that V10's have used exploits to get there, you need to just need to learn that there are people out there that have a lot more time than others, or they had a leveling partner or hell, you might just be a slow arse. Whatever the case stop pointing your fingers at others and making accusations just cuz you are not maxed Vet level. I myself had a leveling partner and we hit V10 about 2 weeks ago but we played everyday and put in a lot of hours.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO · April 2014

The only way, I think, VRs could negatively impact the game is that it makes people less likely to roll alts on the other alliances as they've already seen the zones...

I love visiting new zones, but well... I'll have already seen them by the time I reach VR10

Shillen · April 2014

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO wrote: »

The only way, I think, VRs could negatively impact the game is that it makes people less likely to roll alts on the other alliances as they've already seen the zones...

I love visiting new zones, but well... I'll have already seen them by the time I reach VR10

Shouldn't even be allowed to play the other factions, IMO. Pick one and that's it. That's how you make people care about their faction and makes the game more interesting.

Napkins · April 2014

Darzil wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

For the love of God, no forced pve raids to remain competitive!!! No, we left world of raidcraft behind for a reason. Matt Firor, please learn from the Trials of Atlantis in Dark Age of Camelot. You killed the game with that expansion.

The PvE to be competitive in RvR did indeed harm DAOC for RvR focussed players. It was great for PvE players in DAOC. As long as Veteran ranks and raids have marginal impact on PvP here this shouldn't be a big deal.

Wait.....daoc had pve players? I thought pve was only for reaching max lvl.

Can't wait for Uthgard 2.0!

netsike · April 2014

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

This is among the laziest time sinks I've seen in gaming. They couldn't even have opened up new faction-related storylines that opened up tripartite-contested versions of the opposing faction's zones wherein you're running quests to advance your faction's interests in those zones, they just shoehorn you into them playing for the other factions in phases relegated to initial faction affiliation. This could have been a great way to advance the PvP element and competition, so long as the incursors' camps were secured by elite NPC guards, or even just he PvE element while keeping the story going.

This completely destroyed several of the game's compelling elements, and people are already leaving (which can't be seen, as with new games, there are people coming in just as fast); two of my guilds, both of which consisted almost entirely of beta players, don't even log in anymore. It hasn't even been a full month. Bravo, ZOS, who else could manage deconstructing in one fell swoop something that took years to build?

I agree, it doesn't make any sense to choose an alliance, you can play in every and it feels like they are not even enemies, but buddies... I also wouldn't force the players to go to the other 2 alliances and quest again...It's like another 100levels.

Veshal · April 2014

Dear OP,

I'm not sure you have gotten the gist of how experience with this game is headed towards yet. Unlike (Insert MMO her) you will have to put in a lot of time, and a lot of effort to achieve something rewarding. There are no button mashing rotations that most mmo's have.

They are increasing XP for PvP and PvE to solve the problem you have. To boost the leveling so that more than 1% of people will experience Craglorn.

This is definitely not the game where you will get instant gratification for minimal effort or time. Just because you hit 50 or veteran, doesn't mean you should unlock everything or be able to experience all the content whenever you like.

Crafting is the same. If you want to craft to the best gear or items, you're gonna have to manage your traits well, and prepare yourself for a checklist that is guaranteed to be time consuming.

My problem with the criticism for this game is that it's continuously over things that can and will be fixed, as well as the mentality of most MMO players. That mentality is "Gimme gimme gimme, now now now."

Reviews are crushing this game because it wasn't instantly perfect.

This game is a time investment, and a lot of players (most all) are seeking instant gratification or a pat on the back because they can't have what they want right now.

The truth is, every successful MMO has problems or things that need tweaked.

Give it time.

jimdove · April 2014

I just wish they went full on DAOC RVR mode and had PVP ranks (skills and items follow) Not EZ mode either, proper hardcore numbers needed to ding each Realm Rank.