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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Auction house is a must!
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Kiash✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I love the fact there isn't an auction house. I like that these trade guilds have formed. It brings something fresh to the game.
As far as I can tell, the only fresh thing it brings to this game is an unusually bad economy and extra spam.
Could you give me some specifics about what these Guild Stores bring to this game that you find so fresh and appealing?
And I'm not being sarcastic. I am actually curious as to your answer and the question is genuine.
It doesn't matter what he says you'll still disagree with him. I still prefer the guild store method over a broken centralized AH controlled by the few elite trade barons that end up running every other MMO's economy like GW2 and WoW.
I like the social aspect involved in trading in this game, if you don't like to socialize, it may not be for you.
An AH would ruin the feel and depth of the world of Tamriel in ESO imo. Why adventure, socialize, make friendships etc. if you can just go to a broken centralized AH and buy the best items in the game for a few gold? Completely takes the point and purpose out of MMORPG's.
I don't get why you think browsing a Guild Store listing is so much more social than browsing a Public Auction House listing. It's basically the same thing... except in one of them you can actually find what you are looking for.
I'm plenty social. I join groups all the time. Help others take down world bosses. In fact I can't think of a single time I have turned down someone asking me for help.
Just because I want an economy that works doesn't mean I'm anti-social.
You want an economy that doesn't work and has broken every other MMO's economy to advance quicker. .
No this game already has an economy that doesn't work. I am asking for one that does.
And I have played many MMORPGs that had a public auction house. It didn't break any of them. So I find your claims that Public Auction houses break the economies on all other games inaccurate and wildly exaggerated.
If that's your opinion, that is fine, you are entitled to that. Even a cursory google search shows how AH's break in game economies of any MMO. Numbers don't lie, but as I said I support your right to that opinion even if I disagree.
The economy doesn't work for you because you want the path of least resistance, which is also understandable, I just don't agree with it personally.
Show me these numbers then. Rift, SWTOR, GW2 all have thriving, vibrant economies. You can buy what you need, sell what you don't. Everyone buys, everyone sells. Everyone has access. Unlike this poor excuse for an economy. I vendor everything I don't need. The only time I utilize the ridiculous chat spam sales model is if I have a motif to trade.
GW2's entire economy is controlled by maybe 50-100 people. The centralized overlord style of economy might work for you, but it does not work for me.
http://blacklionsprofit.com/guild-wars-2-gold-guide/
http://www.killtenrats.com/2013/01/23/gw2-market-patterns/
The second article is especially telling after they did the first round of bot bans, the prices of goods skyrocketed in most cases, signaling a majority of the economy is controlled by TP baron bot farmers.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/
Shows numbers of sales for an item and graphs representing price fluctuations over time. Look at the graph, see instances for certain items where 10000 of an item suddenly hits the market at once. That's one person, a single player, controlling who knows how many other players using the TP. The system is great for the everyday player who was no idea whats going on behind the scenes and doesn't mind feeding these barons. For those of us who want a vibrant and successful player controlled economy that everyone can take part in, the centralized AH method does nothing but harm.1 -
Allyah✭✭✭[...]And as I added in my above post, if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.
Vibrant economies enhance game play. It doesn't alter it for the worse like you seem to think.
The game economy works fine without selling anything to other players. If people are waiting until level 50 to craft, it is no wonder they are finding crafting difficult. There's a reason mats level up with each area. Why do you need rarer materials to level up your crafting? The answer is "You don't."1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I love the fact there isn't an auction house. I like that these trade guilds have formed. It brings something fresh to the game.
As far as I can tell, the only fresh thing it brings to this game is an unusually bad economy and extra spam.
Could you give me some specifics about what these Guild Stores bring to this game that you find so fresh and appealing?
And I'm not being sarcastic. I am actually curious as to your answer and the question is genuine.
It doesn't matter what he says you'll still disagree with him. I still prefer the guild store method over a broken centralized AH controlled by the few elite trade barons that end up running every other MMO's economy like GW2 and WoW.
I like the social aspect involved in trading in this game, if you don't like to socialize, it may not be for you.
An AH would ruin the feel and depth of the world of Tamriel in ESO imo. Why adventure, socialize, make friendships etc. if you can just go to a broken centralized AH and buy the best items in the game for a few gold? Completely takes the point and purpose out of MMORPG's.
I don't get why you think browsing a Guild Store listing is so much more social than browsing a Public Auction House listing. It's basically the same thing... except in one of them you can actually find what you are looking for.
I'm plenty social. I join groups all the time. Help others take down world bosses. In fact I can't think of a single time I have turned down someone asking me for help.
Just because I want an economy that works doesn't mean I'm anti-social.
You want an economy that doesn't work and has broken every other MMO's economy to advance quicker. .
No this game already has an economy that doesn't work. I am asking for one that does.
And I have played many MMORPGs that had a public auction house. It didn't break any of them. So I find your claims that Public Auction houses break the economies on all other games inaccurate and wildly exaggerated.
If that's your opinion, that is fine, you are entitled to that. Even a cursory google search shows how AH's break in game economies of any MMO. Numbers don't lie, but as I said I support your right to that opinion even if I disagree.
The economy doesn't work for you because you want the path of least resistance, which is also understandable, I just don't agree with it personally.
Show me these numbers then. Rift, SWTOR, GW2 all have thriving, vibrant economies. You can buy what you need, sell what you don't. Everyone buys, everyone sells. Everyone has access. Unlike this poor excuse for an economy. I vendor everything I don't need. The only time I utilize the ridiculous chat spam sales model is if I have a motif to trade.
GW2's entire economy is controlled by maybe 50-100 people. The centralized overlord style of economy might work for you, but it does not work for me.
.
I must have been one of these rare overlords then cause it worked for me just fine back when I played that game
Edited by Jeremy on April 29, 2014 3:05PM3 -
moXrox✭✭✭NO for AH
This is a megaserver and therefore an AH would be a not a good decision.
Edited by moXrox on April 29, 2014 3:08PMMusic Channel:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCQHvIypA0v70w4uu_ej8wyg/featured
Tolkien Fantasy Music, Medieval, Pagan & Nordic Music Style1 -
Kiash✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I love the fact there isn't an auction house. I like that these trade guilds have formed. It brings something fresh to the game.
As far as I can tell, the only fresh thing it brings to this game is an unusually bad economy and extra spam.
Could you give me some specifics about what these Guild Stores bring to this game that you find so fresh and appealing?
And I'm not being sarcastic. I am actually curious as to your answer and the question is genuine.
It doesn't matter what he says you'll still disagree with him. I still prefer the guild store method over a broken centralized AH controlled by the few elite trade barons that end up running every other MMO's economy like GW2 and WoW.
I like the social aspect involved in trading in this game, if you don't like to socialize, it may not be for you.
An AH would ruin the feel and depth of the world of Tamriel in ESO imo. Why adventure, socialize, make friendships etc. if you can just go to a broken centralized AH and buy the best items in the game for a few gold? Completely takes the point and purpose out of MMORPG's.
I don't get why you think browsing a Guild Store listing is so much more social than browsing a Public Auction House listing. It's basically the same thing... except in one of them you can actually find what you are looking for.
I'm plenty social. I join groups all the time. Help others take down world bosses. In fact I can't think of a single time I have turned down someone asking me for help.
Just because I want an economy that works doesn't mean I'm anti-social.
You want an economy that doesn't work and has broken every other MMO's economy to advance quicker. .
No this game already has an economy that doesn't work. I am asking for one that does.
And I have played many MMORPGs that had a public auction house. It didn't break any of them. So I find your claims that Public Auction houses break the economies on all other games inaccurate and wildly exaggerated.
If that's your opinion, that is fine, you are entitled to that. Even a cursory google search shows how AH's break in game economies of any MMO. Numbers don't lie, but as I said I support your right to that opinion even if I disagree.
The economy doesn't work for you because you want the path of least resistance, which is also understandable, I just don't agree with it personally.
Show me these numbers then. Rift, SWTOR, GW2 all have thriving, vibrant economies. You can buy what you need, sell what you don't. Everyone buys, everyone sells. Everyone has access. Unlike this poor excuse for an economy. I vendor everything I don't need. The only time I utilize the ridiculous chat spam sales model is if I have a motif to trade.
GW2's entire economy is controlled by maybe 50-100 people. The centralized overlord style of economy might work for you, but it does not work for me.
.
I must have been one of these rare overlords then cause it worked for me just fine back when I played that game
Good for you! It doesn't work for me.0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭No to Auction House either. I really like the setup ZoS has employed with Guild Stores. BTW, for those who don't know this, recently in an ALOG Paul Sage of ZoS said that as soon as they are capable of making Guilds larger they will do so, right now it's a hardware issue. They are also looking at even more functionality within Guilds but he didn't say what specifically.2 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I love the fact there isn't an auction house. I like that these trade guilds have formed. It brings something fresh to the game.
As far as I can tell, the only fresh thing it brings to this game is an unusually bad economy and extra spam.
Could you give me some specifics about what these Guild Stores bring to this game that you find so fresh and appealing?
And I'm not being sarcastic. I am actually curious as to your answer and the question is genuine.
It doesn't matter what he says you'll still disagree with him. I still prefer the guild store method over a broken centralized AH controlled by the few elite trade barons that end up running every other MMO's economy like GW2 and WoW.
I like the social aspect involved in trading in this game, if you don't like to socialize, it may not be for you.
An AH would ruin the feel and depth of the world of Tamriel in ESO imo. Why adventure, socialize, make friendships etc. if you can just go to a broken centralized AH and buy the best items in the game for a few gold? Completely takes the point and purpose out of MMORPG's.
I don't get why you think browsing a Guild Store listing is so much more social than browsing a Public Auction House listing. It's basically the same thing... except in one of them you can actually find what you are looking for.
I'm plenty social. I join groups all the time. Help others take down world bosses. In fact I can't think of a single time I have turned down someone asking me for help.
Just because I want an economy that works doesn't mean I'm anti-social.
You want an economy that doesn't work and has broken every other MMO's economy to advance quicker. .
No this game already has an economy that doesn't work. I am asking for one that does.
And I have played many MMORPGs that had a public auction house. It didn't break any of them. So I find your claims that Public Auction houses break the economies on all other games inaccurate and wildly exaggerated.
If that's your opinion, that is fine, you are entitled to that. Even a cursory google search shows how AH's break in game economies of any MMO. Numbers don't lie, but as I said I support your right to that opinion even if I disagree.
The economy doesn't work for you because you want the path of least resistance, which is also understandable, I just don't agree with it personally.
Show me these numbers then. Rift, SWTOR, GW2 all have thriving, vibrant economies. You can buy what you need, sell what you don't. Everyone buys, everyone sells. Everyone has access. Unlike this poor excuse for an economy. I vendor everything I don't need. The only time I utilize the ridiculous chat spam sales model is if I have a motif to trade.
GW2's entire economy is controlled by maybe 50-100 people. The centralized overlord style of economy might work for you, but it does not work for me.
.
I must have been one of these rare overlords then cause it worked for me just fine back when I played that game
LOL same here. I bought and sold all the time, in GW2 and SWTOR....I made millions of credits in SWTOR just selling loot drops and excess crafting materials. Perfect example of a working economy. I'm too casual to work the market, I just sell what I don't need and buy what I do need.
Unfortunately, that's too much of a pain in the ass in ESO, so I just vendor everything.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[...]And as I added in my above post, if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.
Vibrant economies enhance game play. It doesn't alter it for the worse like you seem to think.
The game economy works fine without selling anything to other players. If people are waiting until level 50 to craft, it is no wonder they are finding crafting difficult. There's a reason mats level up with each area. Why do you need rarer materials to level up your crafting? The answer is "You don't."
I never said you needed rarer materials to level up your crafting. So you are challenging with me over something I never wrote.
Let me post it again what I actually wrote for you:
if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.
In other words, most people don't even bother crafting green or blue items for themselves while they are leveling up. They do this because they have to rely almost solely on their own efforts in this regard. The economy being in such a state of utter crap they can't reliably buy the materials they need to help them out.
This encourages people to hoard all of their materials and not fully-utilize their crafting until they reach level 50.
Hopefully that explains better what I was saying 3 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO for AH
This is a megaserver and therefore an AH would be a not a good decision.
I'd be willing to bet money that one is implemented at some point. Too many people want it, and whether any of you want to admit it or not, a centralized marketplace is essential to a healthy economy. Besides, GW2 has a megaserver AH, and it works just fine. However, even if they didn't want one single megaserver AH, they will have to do faction based at the very least. This economy in its current state is all but non existent.3 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I love the fact there isn't an auction house. I like that these trade guilds have formed. It brings something fresh to the game.
As far as I can tell, the only fresh thing it brings to this game is an unusually bad economy and extra spam.
Could you give me some specifics about what these Guild Stores bring to this game that you find so fresh and appealing?
And I'm not being sarcastic. I am actually curious as to your answer and the question is genuine.
It doesn't matter what he says you'll still disagree with him. I still prefer the guild store method over a broken centralized AH controlled by the few elite trade barons that end up running every other MMO's economy like GW2 and WoW.
I like the social aspect involved in trading in this game, if you don't like to socialize, it may not be for you.
An AH would ruin the feel and depth of the world of Tamriel in ESO imo. Why adventure, socialize, make friendships etc. if you can just go to a broken centralized AH and buy the best items in the game for a few gold? Completely takes the point and purpose out of MMORPG's.
I don't get why you think browsing a Guild Store listing is so much more social than browsing a Public Auction House listing. It's basically the same thing... except in one of them you can actually find what you are looking for.
I'm plenty social. I join groups all the time. Help others take down world bosses. In fact I can't think of a single time I have turned down someone asking me for help.
Just because I want an economy that works doesn't mean I'm anti-social.
You want an economy that doesn't work and has broken every other MMO's economy to advance quicker. .
No this game already has an economy that doesn't work. I am asking for one that does.
And I have played many MMORPGs that had a public auction house. It didn't break any of them. So I find your claims that Public Auction houses break the economies on all other games inaccurate and wildly exaggerated.
If that's your opinion, that is fine, you are entitled to that. Even a cursory google search shows how AH's break in game economies of any MMO. Numbers don't lie, but as I said I support your right to that opinion even if I disagree.
The economy doesn't work for you because you want the path of least resistance, which is also understandable, I just don't agree with it personally.
Show me these numbers then. Rift, SWTOR, GW2 all have thriving, vibrant economies. You can buy what you need, sell what you don't. Everyone buys, everyone sells. Everyone has access. Unlike this poor excuse for an economy. I vendor everything I don't need. The only time I utilize the ridiculous chat spam sales model is if I have a motif to trade.
GW2's entire economy is controlled by maybe 50-100 people. The centralized overlord style of economy might work for you, but it does not work for me.
http://blacklionsprofit.com/guild-wars-2-gold-guide/
http://www.killtenrats.com/2013/01/23/gw2-market-patterns/
The second article is especially telling after they did the first round of bot bans, the prices of goods skyrocketed in most cases, signaling a majority of the economy is controlled by TP baron bot farmers.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/
Shows numbers of sales for an item and graphs representing price fluctuations over time. Look at the graph, see instances for certain items where 10000 of an item suddenly hits the market at once. That's one person, a single player, controlling who knows how many other players using the TP. The system is great for the everyday player who was no idea whats going on behind the scenes and doesn't mind feeding these barons. For those of us who want a vibrant and successful player controlled economy that everyone can take part in, the centralized AH method does nothing but harm.
I read your links...they describe exactly how supply and demand works. I'm not sure what your point is.2 -
Evanis✭✭✭No AH pls, 4 Tradeguilds = 2000 Players to trade, well enough.
2000 actively trading members is not the reality. How many of us currently belong to guilds that have hundreds of members on the roster, but only 10%-20% are actually considered active? Plus, the 25% listing fee is cost prohibitive for anything other than premium items. The no AH concept was interesting and I thought I would give it a chance, but simply put, it is not working for a majority of players.2 -
Allyah✭✭✭[...]And as I added in my above post, if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.
Vibrant economies enhance game play. It doesn't alter it for the worse like you seem to think.
The game economy works fine without selling anything to other players. If people are waiting until level 50 to craft, it is no wonder they are finding crafting difficult. There's a reason mats level up with each area. Why do you need rarer materials to level up your crafting? The answer is "You don't."
I never said you needed rarer materials to level up your crafting. So you are challenging with me over something I never wrote.
Let me post it again what I actually wrote for you:
if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.
In other words, most people don't even bother crafting green or blue items for themselves while they are leveling up. They do this because they have to rely almost solely on their own efforts in this regard. The economy being in such a state of utter crap they can't reliably buy the materials they need to help them out.
This encourages people to hoard all of their materials and not fully-utilize their crafting until they reach level 50.
Hopefully that explains better what I was saying
Ah, I did misunderstand the way you were using the word utilize. ^^
However, you have quests and dungeons to supplement you with w/e you can't gain from crafting. Should everyone be able to make top-notch gear at lower levels? I certainly don't think so. My original points stands: The game economy works fine without buying/selling anything to other characters. You may not have top-gear but it doesn't break your ability to play.1 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭I like the way they have it set up, I have a main guild, 4 other trade guilds! Time too make some money!2
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Kiash✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I love the fact there isn't an auction house. I like that these trade guilds have formed. It brings something fresh to the game.
As far as I can tell, the only fresh thing it brings to this game is an unusually bad economy and extra spam.
Could you give me some specifics about what these Guild Stores bring to this game that you find so fresh and appealing?
And I'm not being sarcastic. I am actually curious as to your answer and the question is genuine.
It doesn't matter what he says you'll still disagree with him. I still prefer the guild store method over a broken centralized AH controlled by the few elite trade barons that end up running every other MMO's economy like GW2 and WoW.
I like the social aspect involved in trading in this game, if you don't like to socialize, it may not be for you.
An AH would ruin the feel and depth of the world of Tamriel in ESO imo. Why adventure, socialize, make friendships etc. if you can just go to a broken centralized AH and buy the best items in the game for a few gold? Completely takes the point and purpose out of MMORPG's.
I don't get why you think browsing a Guild Store listing is so much more social than browsing a Public Auction House listing. It's basically the same thing... except in one of them you can actually find what you are looking for.
I'm plenty social. I join groups all the time. Help others take down world bosses. In fact I can't think of a single time I have turned down someone asking me for help.
Just because I want an economy that works doesn't mean I'm anti-social.
You want an economy that doesn't work and has broken every other MMO's economy to advance quicker. .
No this game already has an economy that doesn't work. I am asking for one that does.
And I have played many MMORPGs that had a public auction house. It didn't break any of them. So I find your claims that Public Auction houses break the economies on all other games inaccurate and wildly exaggerated.
If that's your opinion, that is fine, you are entitled to that. Even a cursory google search shows how AH's break in game economies of any MMO. Numbers don't lie, but as I said I support your right to that opinion even if I disagree.
The economy doesn't work for you because you want the path of least resistance, which is also understandable, I just don't agree with it personally.
Show me these numbers then. Rift, SWTOR, GW2 all have thriving, vibrant economies. You can buy what you need, sell what you don't. Everyone buys, everyone sells. Everyone has access. Unlike this poor excuse for an economy. I vendor everything I don't need. The only time I utilize the ridiculous chat spam sales model is if I have a motif to trade.
GW2's entire economy is controlled by maybe 50-100 people. The centralized overlord style of economy might work for you, but it does not work for me.
http://blacklionsprofit.com/guild-wars-2-gold-guide/
http://www.killtenrats.com/2013/01/23/gw2-market-patterns/
The second article is especially telling after they did the first round of bot bans, the prices of goods skyrocketed in most cases, signaling a majority of the economy is controlled by TP baron bot farmers.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/
Shows numbers of sales for an item and graphs representing price fluctuations over time. Look at the graph, see instances for certain items where 10000 of an item suddenly hits the market at once. That's one person, a single player, controlling who knows how many other players using the TP. The system is great for the everyday player who was no idea whats going on behind the scenes and doesn't mind feeding these barons. For those of us who want a vibrant and successful player controlled economy that everyone can take part in, the centralized AH method does nothing but harm.
I read your links...they describe exactly how supply and demand works. I'm not sure what your point is.
If you don't understand the links, I can't really help you there. Supply and Demand was not even remotely the main subject of any of those links.0 -
elladora✭I think something in between the current system and an AH is needed. Issues I have with the current system are:
1) BUYING. I can't find any of an item I want to buy, eg i want to craft glyphs for my own V1 gear so I need Rera and Kuta, I'd like to upgrade a piece of gear so I need Elegant Lining, maybe my guilds are badly chosen but there are zero of these items listed.
2) STORE UI. I am using an add-on that allows search by text. The guild store UI needs a huge amount of work. Search by text, categories that filter properly, more categories eg Materials> Enchanting > Potency. It would be nice if you could search all your guild stores together.
3) SELLING. I don't have enough information to determine a fair selling price (or a price for an item so it WILL sell) and even when I am listing in-demand items on the guild store cheaply they aren't selling. I suspect this is partly due to the user-unfriendly interface and partly the low number of potential buyers.
These are the things I would like fixed, I think a bigger market of people to buy from and sell to would solve 1) and 3) but that that bigger market should still be limited in size to protect the economy. I think the impact of 2) is greatly underestimated, a fast, easy-to-use system would encourage greater use of the guild stores.2 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I love the fact there isn't an auction house. I like that these trade guilds have formed. It brings something fresh to the game.
As far as I can tell, the only fresh thing it brings to this game is an unusually bad economy and extra spam.
Could you give me some specifics about what these Guild Stores bring to this game that you find so fresh and appealing?
And I'm not being sarcastic. I am actually curious as to your answer and the question is genuine.
It doesn't matter what he says you'll still disagree with him. I still prefer the guild store method over a broken centralized AH controlled by the few elite trade barons that end up running every other MMO's economy like GW2 and WoW.
I like the social aspect involved in trading in this game, if you don't like to socialize, it may not be for you.
An AH would ruin the feel and depth of the world of Tamriel in ESO imo. Why adventure, socialize, make friendships etc. if you can just go to a broken centralized AH and buy the best items in the game for a few gold? Completely takes the point and purpose out of MMORPG's.
I don't get why you think browsing a Guild Store listing is so much more social than browsing a Public Auction House listing. It's basically the same thing... except in one of them you can actually find what you are looking for.
I'm plenty social. I join groups all the time. Help others take down world bosses. In fact I can't think of a single time I have turned down someone asking me for help.
Just because I want an economy that works doesn't mean I'm anti-social.
You want an economy that doesn't work and has broken every other MMO's economy to advance quicker. .
No this game already has an economy that doesn't work. I am asking for one that does.
And I have played many MMORPGs that had a public auction house. It didn't break any of them. So I find your claims that Public Auction houses break the economies on all other games inaccurate and wildly exaggerated.
If that's your opinion, that is fine, you are entitled to that. Even a cursory google search shows how AH's break in game economies of any MMO. Numbers don't lie, but as I said I support your right to that opinion even if I disagree.
The economy doesn't work for you because you want the path of least resistance, which is also understandable, I just don't agree with it personally.
Show me these numbers then. Rift, SWTOR, GW2 all have thriving, vibrant economies. You can buy what you need, sell what you don't. Everyone buys, everyone sells. Everyone has access. Unlike this poor excuse for an economy. I vendor everything I don't need. The only time I utilize the ridiculous chat spam sales model is if I have a motif to trade.
GW2's entire economy is controlled by maybe 50-100 people. The centralized overlord style of economy might work for you, but it does not work for me.
http://blacklionsprofit.com/guild-wars-2-gold-guide/
http://www.killtenrats.com/2013/01/23/gw2-market-patterns/
The second article is especially telling after they did the first round of bot bans, the prices of goods skyrocketed in most cases, signaling a majority of the economy is controlled by TP baron bot farmers.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/
Shows numbers of sales for an item and graphs representing price fluctuations over time. Look at the graph, see instances for certain items where 10000 of an item suddenly hits the market at once. That's one person, a single player, controlling who knows how many other players using the TP. The system is great for the everyday player who was no idea whats going on behind the scenes and doesn't mind feeding these barons. For those of us who want a vibrant and successful player controlled economy that everyone can take part in, the centralized AH method does nothing but harm.
I read your links...they describe exactly how supply and demand works. I'm not sure what your point is.
If you don't understand the links, I can't really help you there. Supply and Demand was not even remotely the main subject of any of those links.
Maybe not, but that is what they describe, in great detail.1 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not in favor of a AH, maybe a bazar where you have to have a stall to set up and be in attendance in order to sell. Socialize and meet people, strike bargains and sell wares or services. Just a thought.Edited by Alurria on April 29, 2014 4:32PM1 -
gnostici✭✭✭I have never and probably will never use a guild store because they're always empty and it's a waste of time to even click to see them. Zone auctions are worthless because they're spammy, are just constant contests to see who can rip off whom, and are filled with misinformation. Auction houses lead to the wholesale manipulation and domination of the game economy.
So, as it stands, there is no good way to implement a player economy. You just have to throw yourself under the bus with whatever is available, and deal with the hassle of it all.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[...]And as I added in my above post, if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.
Vibrant economies enhance game play. It doesn't alter it for the worse like you seem to think.
The game economy works fine without selling anything to other players. If people are waiting until level 50 to craft, it is no wonder they are finding crafting difficult. There's a reason mats level up with each area. Why do you need rarer materials to level up your crafting? The answer is "You don't."
I never said you needed rarer materials to level up your crafting. So you are challenging with me over something I never wrote.
Let me post it again what I actually wrote for you:
if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.
In other words, most people don't even bother crafting green or blue items for themselves while they are leveling up. They do this because they have to rely almost solely on their own efforts in this regard. The economy being in such a state of utter crap they can't reliably buy the materials they need to help them out.
This encourages people to hoard all of their materials and not fully-utilize their crafting until they reach level 50.
Hopefully that explains better what I was saying
The game economy works fine without buying/selling anything to other characters .
Just read what you are saying here and then ask yourself this: how is an economy working fine if no buying/selling with other people is happening?
Scavenging everything yourself is not an example of an economy working fine.
So I don't understand what your point is other than to say you can get by on this game without having to trade with others. And while that is true, it doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying.2 -
oldkye✭✭I'm not going to pretend like I wouldn't be ok with a Auction house the push of MMO's to "not" have one so they don't seem like "WoW" is silly this was part of FF14's downfall when it first started and part of why it was remade they specifically said they didn't include it to "not be like WoW" when FF11 was out before WoW and had a Auction house.
That said I feel the "Real" problem is the fees to sell in the guild store 25% is Huge! when you can just spam in chat to 15x the players and get "Full Price" why they would ding us so much to sell in the guild store when they already limited us to only 500 people is beyond me it's like kicking us when we are down.1 -
Allyah✭✭✭[...]And as I added in my above post, if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.
Vibrant economies enhance game play. It doesn't alter it for the worse like you seem to think.
The game economy works fine without selling anything to other players. If people are waiting until level 50 to craft, it is no wonder they are finding crafting difficult. There's a reason mats level up with each area. Why do you need rarer materials to level up your crafting? The answer is "You don't."
I never said you needed rarer materials to level up your crafting. So you are challenging with me over something I never wrote.
Let me post it again what I actually wrote for you:
if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.
In other words, most people don't even bother crafting green or blue items for themselves while they are leveling up. They do this because they have to rely almost solely on their own efforts in this regard. The economy being in such a state of utter crap they can't reliably buy the materials they need to help them out.
This encourages people to hoard all of their materials and not fully-utilize their crafting until they reach level 50.
Hopefully that explains better what I was saying
The game economy works fine without buying/selling anything to other characters .
Just read what you are saying here and then ask yourself this: how is an economy working fine if no buying/selling with other people is happening?
Scavenging everything yourself is not an example of an economy working fine.
So I don't understand what your point is other than to say you can get by on this game without having to trade with others. And while that is true, it doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying.
Correct me if I'm wrong but your point seems to be we need an AH because the economy doesn't work. My point is that we don't because it does. The system isn't broken and you want it fixed. Here's why it isn't broken:
Establishing what the economy consists of:
You can buy and sell from vendors. That's part of the economy. When mobs drop loot, they are part of the economy. When NPC's give you loot as rewards, that's part of the economy. When you craft something to sell, that is part of the economy. When you buy bag/bank space for mass amounts of gold, that is part of the economy.
To (hopefully) make it more clear:
Economy:
1. The wealth and resources of a country or region, especially in terms of the production and consumption of goods and services.
2.Careful management of available resources.
Establishing how the economy works (in part):
There are common resources that everyone can get to but there are also rare resources that only higher level players have access to creating demand for items that are harder to find. Limited space makes it difficult for people to max out their crafting completely too quickly. The high price of space for items creates a gold sink which prevents people from accumulating money and/or items too quickly.
No one said you have to scavenge everything yourself. It is just possible to do so if you choose. That is still much harder to do than to buy things from others - incentive to buy (so again, economy.)
But let's pretend it is broken. I can agree the system in place isn't perfect. But tell me: how is an AH going to fix anything? I've never seen an AH do anything but drive prices up and up and up. If there is a demand for something, you will be able to sell it in zone chat. If there isn't a demand, there are at least 6 other different things to do with whatever it is that you can't sell to another person (deconstruct, vendor, enchant, improve, destroy, use with an alt...). So far no one has been able to convince me an AH would help the economy in any way but I have years of MMO experience with AH types ruining economy and player interaction.3 -
oldkye✭✭@Allyah Well like I said in my post above you I like a AH cause it's easy the economist in me(which is my degree) is ecstatic at the lack of one lol they set the costs of moving goods incredibly high from low storage to the 25% fee to sell in guild stores.
Though this will clearly slow economic growth how the economy of the game adapts to these challenges I will be watching for some time lol.0 -
Allyah✭✭✭@Allyah Well like I said in my post above you I like a AH cause it's easy the economist in me(which is my degree) is ecstatic at the lack of one lol they set the costs of moving goods incredibly high from low storage to the 25% fee to sell in guild stores.
Though this will clearly slow economic growth how the economy of the game adapts to these challenges I will be watching for some time lol.
To be honest, I feel slow moving economic growth is a good thing in an MMO because no MMO economy I've played in has been infallible (and the economy usually just gets worse). The longer they delay the inevitable, the better. Personally, I feel like they've balanced it pretty well, though. If you have anymore views from an economist student's point of view I'd be very interested to hear. ^^0 -
oldkye✭✭@Allyah Well like I said in my post above you I like a AH cause it's easy the economist in me(which is my degree) is ecstatic at the lack of one lol they set the costs of moving goods incredibly high from low storage to the 25% fee to sell in guild stores.
Though this will clearly slow economic growth how the economy of the game adapts to these challenges I will be watching for some time lol.
To be honest, I feel slow moving economic growth is a good thing in an MMO because no MMO economy I've played in has been infallible (and the economy usually just gets worse). The longer they delay the inevitable, the better. Personally, I feel like they've balanced it pretty well, though. If you have anymore views from an economist student's point of view I'd be very interested to hear. ^^
No your correct slow growth is often best and indeed the preferred in the real world however in MMO's the economy functions a little different the inflow of currency is inexhaustible monsters will always drop gold and vendors will always give it for selling items this would normally cause extreme inflation but developers are aware of this so they incorporate "Money sinks" like repairs to control the amount of gold in the economy.
This allows you to also counter rapid economic growth with larger sinks but the balance is not so easy to maintain I find the best game economies are able to function mostly "hands off" by the developers.
My favorite example is Eve Online which also has large costs to moving goods including the threat of goods being attacked during transport you would think this would be bad but actually it's simply a cost passed on to consumers like the real world that people make a business out of mitigating.
So we may well find the economy is far "more" balanced that that of WoW or other games but it will take time to see and I will enjoy watching ^.^2 -
Allyah✭✭✭@Allyah Well like I said in my post above you I like a AH cause it's easy the economist in me(which is my degree) is ecstatic at the lack of one lol they set the costs of moving goods incredibly high from low storage to the 25% fee to sell in guild stores.
Though this will clearly slow economic growth how the economy of the game adapts to these challenges I will be watching for some time lol.
To be honest, I feel slow moving economic growth is a good thing in an MMO because no MMO economy I've played in has been infallible (and the economy usually just gets worse). The longer they delay the inevitable, the better. Personally, I feel like they've balanced it pretty well, though. If you have anymore views from an economist student's point of view I'd be very interested to hear. ^^
No your correct slow growth is often best and indeed the preferred in the real world however in MMO's the economy functions a little different the inflow of currency is inexhaustible monsters will always drop gold and vendors will always give it for selling items this would normally cause extreme inflation but developers are aware of this so they incorporate "Money sinks" like repairs to control the amount of gold in the economy.
This allows you to also counter rapid economic growth with larger sinks but the balance is not so easy to maintain I find the best game economies are able to function mostly "hands off" by the developers.
My favorite example is Eve Online which also has large costs to moving goods including the threat of goods being attacked during transport you would think this would be bad but actually it's simply a cost passed on to consumers like the real world that people make a business out of mitigating.
So we may well find the economy is far "more" balanced that that of WoW or other games but it will take time to see and I will enjoy watching ^.^
That's all good to know. ^^ Thank you. I do wonder at the long-term survivability of the current economy but I definitely don't think the AH is the answer. I'm pretty interested to see how it works out as well. As long as there is no AH. Then I'll just be bored 'cause... been there, done that.0 -
Guild banks stores are great for groups, but how about the solo players who don't want to join a group? An Auction House levels the game for everyone.
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Granz✭✭I agree with the OP. Not having an AH is really a design flaw. I understand why but they need to stop gold selling a different way. This game needs a place for us to sell other than a guild store.2
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Striken7✭✭✭This will be one the of the many "features" that continues to drive away players until it is remedied. The current system is too cumbersome, too limited, and punishes you for using it.
You know what happens when you just need to be as different as possible from those other successful MMO's? You make an unsuccessful one.4 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Still not a fan of a basic AH without restrictions. At wow for instance you can farm ore for an hour and you instantly have enough gold for a horse.
I find that not that good, as it kind of negates the long levity of the "progress"
However, it would still be fun to have trading post´s where players can contribute and build it (one each town). That trading post could then offer one slot each day, where a person could post his offer.
Trading post´s would need to be specialist however, so that not each trading post is the same. Players should need to travel to a different town if they for instance want wood or iron.
This would also offer a new skill line "trader", where you can invest points to unlock more slots, to lower the fee, increase your delivery time, get higher profit´s like a bonus for successful sells ...0
This discussion has been closed.