Economy rigged

MEBengalsFan2001 · November 2021

trpajzla wrote: »

Yes. Increase of the price of Daedra heart was predictable but it is annoying still watch what market is doing and how it is (over)reacting and still try to be one step ahead of others.
I made 2 millions just on daedra but it doesn't make me happy.

My point is that devs just can't make such huge artificial high demand on some existing/ cheap / slow farming item as Daedra heart and not increase droprate 1000x to get chance market replenish and adjust without shocks.
Heartwood is similar problem just not so painful.

Or they can do that and eat it on the forum because it suggests they don't understand the most basic rules of the economy and the market in their own game.
The rule is demand/offer if devs are unsure what I'm talking about.

Well to the economy 101. It's called the rule of supply and demand. If supply is high, price goes down. If supply starts to go down and demand remains constant the price goes up, etc...

For instance certain event recipe are cheap during events and few months after the event. Than price goes up really fast.

redspecter23 · November 2021

It's been touched on in the thread a bit but how about for a gold sink provide crown crates in game for gold?

This takes the gold out of the economy and tosses it into the void.
Players get bound cosmetics so they can't put those things back into the economy.
Anyone buying these crates could have bought them as a gold:crown gift anyway.
It provides a safe way to exchange gold for some crown items that are popular gold:crown gifts.

The only concern is that ZOS would not be likely to skip out on their own earnings by selling crates. They could keep the newest crate season to the crown store exclusively and offer older seasons through the in game vendor so it doesn't cut into crown sales for the newest crates. Other than that one point, it could help balance out players with massive amounts of gold and keep inflation in check.

FeedbackOnly · November 2021

Treeshka wrote: »

Well for Daedra Hearth it was expected since new furniture recipes requires this material.

👀 About to unload a lot of them

Easily_Lost · November 2021

I am sure that this has been said already.

If you don't want to pay the high prices, FARM them yourself!

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2021

zaria wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

The problem is the gold sinks aren't strong enough. We've had rampant inflation for a while, opposite problem of NW.

Only half of the equation. Game needs more gold sinks AND we need to seriously curb the supply of new gold into the game, cough cough, crafting writs. I will never understand why people refuse to look at the other side of the coin every time this conversation comes up.

Well nerf crafting writs the ZoS way

Well I guess Chromium Plating could very easy go way past a million a piece. As they also drop the main reason to to crafting writs. Be very careful that you ask for.

@zaria
To be clear. I am not suggesting they nerf crafting writs to lower the amount of gold mats coming into the game. I am suggesting they nerf the amount of gold that comes into the game from turning in the quest (probably more or only on PC, console doesn't have the same problem). In fact, I think if they reduced or eliminated gold, they could probably increase the amount of gold mats that drop. It is simply too easy to print 100k gold out of thin air once a day.

Adding gold into the game causes inflation, the same is not true of gold mats. In fact, I think if they nerfed the gold, but also increased the drop rate of mats, you would actually have more mats in the market and it would bring prices down. I never sell my gold mats from writs, because I get more gold than I know what to do with. If they shut off the gold, I would probably become a seller of my mats at some point.

Inflation is like a clogged sink about to flood your house. Sure, you need to unclog the drain, but first thing you do is turn off the faucet. Gold absolutely pours into this game, AND there isn't much to spend it on...

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

The problem is the gold sinks aren't strong enough. We've had rampant inflation for a while, opposite problem of NW.

Only half of the equation. Game needs more gold sinks AND we need to seriously curb the supply of new gold into the game, cough cough, crafting writs. I will never understand why people refuse to look at the other side of the coin every time this conversation comes up.

Well, part of the reason not to touch the flow of new gold via writs/dailies is that lowering that amount hurts players with less gold and does little to the players who have a ton of gold. It's a little like trying to shut the barn door after the horses have gotten loose.

Another reason is that consoles generate a lot less gold due to writs because of no addons. So lowering the amount of gold hurts them when they don't have this problem.

If ZOS does want to slow gold generation by writs, there's two good ways to do it.

1. Remove the API used by addons like Lazy Writ Crafter and force all players to use the base game functionality. This hampers the ability of PC players to quickly do writs on multiple characters and brings future PC gold generation closer in line with console.

2. Lower the gold rewards on PC only, though again, that hurts PC players with less gold who craft for their money and doesn't touch the richer players who primarily trade for their money and have lots of stored gold. Don't touch console because their gold generation levels aren't a problem.

Absolutely, you would need to target console differently than PC. In fact, I think the most obvious proof that this is a real issue is the drastically different levels of inflation we see on PC vs Console. The elephant in the room is crafting writs.

I would suggest, that a lot of people with really deep pockets do in fact do writs. Also, if you nerfed the new gold, but increased the gold mats that dropped, you would arguably be able to transfer some of that wealth to the crafters, because without the gold, they are much more likely to sell there mats. I have thousands of gold mats and millions and millions of gold. I don't sell my mats for 2 reasons. One, I simply don't need the gold because I get it from writs, and two, inflation is so rampant that selling gold mats makes no financial sense. My gold doesn't generate interest, but my gold mats are worth more and more everyday (in terms of gold), largely due to inflation.

I know nerfing writs is not a popular position, but I think, it would be very effective on PC at curbing inflation.

Gelmir · November 2021

Are you sure Dremora motifs are 3 mill gold?! Did you want to say 300, or even 3000?

AlnilamE · November 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS does want to slow gold generation by writs, there's two good ways to do it.

1. Remove the API used by addons like Lazy Writ Crafter and force all players to use the base game functionality. This hampers the ability of PC players to quickly do writs on multiple characters and brings future PC gold generation closer in line with console.

Before I knew about Lazy Writ Crafter, I would do writs on all my characters. These days, I just do them on one and a half, because the loading screens are a pain and it gets boring. If they implemented your suggestion, I don't think it would make much of a difference because the base UI now shows you what you need to craft.

Mind you, my LWC is set up so that I still have to press "craft" rather than it automatically doing the writ when one interacts with the crafting station.

But this would probably encourage people to focus more on the consumable writs, since those can be pre-done, and you would lower the supply of equipment improvers.

Personally, I don't care if people flip stuff. I'm cheap and I only buy cheap stuff. If it's too expensive, I'll farm it myself.

But every time someone sells something in the game 4.5% of the sale amount disappears forever, so a flipper that buys something to re-sell is activating that gold sink twice.

redspecter23 · November 2021

Gelmir wrote: »

Are you sure Dremora motifs are 3 mill gold?! Did you want to say 300, or even 3000?

I'm assuming they were referring to the gold book which would have a massive value compared to the purple pages due to rarity and collector value.

kargen27 · November 2021

"Droprate of ressources are IMO too low and can't keep up with demand. Look at perfect Roe its prices just rise and rise"

Perfect Roe is tied to a microcosm of the game. Achievement hunters tend to stop fishing once they get the achievement. Other than achievements there really isn't much reason to fish. Really the only other reason to do so is that Perfect Roe is selling at a decent price. For a while now a recipe using Perfect Roe has been the go to recipe for sustain in builds you can find on popular build sites. That increased demand so prices increased accordingly.
I have two characters that are master fishermen and from time to time fish with a third. When prices increased I unloaded some Perfect Roe but still have some in reserve.
Prices may drop a little. All the fishing holes in the new zone have players standing around waiting for them to spawn. Don't know if they are just achievement hunters or if maybe an antiquity drop is associated with fishing. Either way for a while there should be more Perfect Roe.
And speaking of, a good way to increase something like Perfect Roe would be to tie more antiquities to fishing or to add furniture motifs to the loot pool. Get people fishing so supply catches up to demand.

wolfie1.0. · November 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

The problem is the gold sinks aren't strong enough. We've had rampant inflation for a while, opposite problem of NW.

Only half of the equation. Game needs more gold sinks AND we need to seriously curb the supply of new gold into the game, cough cough, crafting writs. I will never understand why people refuse to look at the other side of the coin every time this conversation comes up.

Well, part of the reason not to touch the flow of new gold via writs/dailies is that lowering that amount hurts players with less gold and does little to the players who have a ton of gold. It's a little like trying to shut the barn door after the horses have gotten loose.

Another reason is that consoles generate a lot less gold due to writs because of no addons. So lowering the amount of gold hurts them when they don't have this problem.

If ZOS does want to slow gold generation by writs, there's two good ways to do it.

1. Remove the API used by addons like Lazy Writ Crafter and force all players to use the base game functionality. This hampers the ability of PC players to quickly do writs on multiple characters and brings future PC gold generation closer in line with console.

2. Lower the gold rewards on PC only, though again, that hurts PC players with less gold who craft for their money and doesn't touch the richer players who primarily trade for their money and have lots of stored gold. Don't touch console because their gold generation levels aren't a problem.

I don't see ZOS making any server specific changes that are not required to make the game work specificallyfor that server. If you remove the gold on one they will do it for all. And honestly I would be OK with this. As the majority of the value in writs is in the other items you get. But if they go this route I would also request that they remove the CP perks that either reduce cost of gold expenses, or increase gold production. I would also ask that they change how thievery works as well as fences and other sources of gold generation (ie new gold)

Removing addons will make it more difficult but not impossible to maintain the same level of commitment to crafting writs. Writs are predictable and honestly with how they changed the quests for these they can still be crafted fast without lazy writ.

morrowjen · November 2021

gamergirldk wrote: »

Let us buy Transmution crystals now that would drain gold out of ppl

I would love this. I'm a caregiver for someone who is very sick. Doing group content just isn't always possible right now because I never know when I'll be needed for an emergency but I still need transmutes.

etchedpixels · November 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS does want to slow gold generation by writs, there's two good ways to do it.

1. Remove the API used by addons like Lazy Writ Crafter and force all players to use the base game functionality. This hampers the ability of PC players to quickly do writs on multiple characters and brings future PC gold generation closer in line with console.

2. Lower the gold rewards on PC only, though again, that hurts PC players with less gold who craft for their money and doesn't touch the richer players who primarily trade for their money and have lots of stored gold. Don't touch console because their gold generation levels aren't a problem.

If they wanted to deal with the writs it would IMHO be far more sensible to cap writs per day by account or make them reduce in value per toon. That means that the large number of casual players for whom it's their main income are unaffected but the folks racking up 9 or 18 toons and running a production line would get a lot less return for grinding them. Capping that (or just all daily quests) per account along with random dungeon non XP rewards would go a long way to fixing the 'grind 18 times to win' situation and also mean that it's practical to allow folks who want a lot of toons for end game play or roleplaying to have even more without unbalancing things further.

hafgood · November 2021

Sorry but if you think making large houses available for gold is a gold sink then you don't have a clue about what is needed.

For a gold sink to have any effect it has to affect every single player on the server, making a house available for gold does not do that. Sure it takes some gold out or the game but there are a lot of players that have no interest in housing.

This means that those players with lots of money with no interest in housing still have lots of money.

Therefore it isn't a valid gold sink for solving this pc problem.

And contrary to belief, the devs don't have an issue on 2/6 servers. They don't have an issue at all.

redspecter23 · November 2021

hafgood wrote: »

Sorry but if you think making large houses available for gold is a gold sink then you don't have a clue about what is needed.

For a gold sink to have any effect it has to affect every single player on the server, making a house available for gold does not do that. Sure it takes some gold out or the game but there are a lot of players that have no interest in housing.

This means that those players with lots of money with no interest in housing still have lots of money.

Therefore it isn't a valid gold sink for solving this pc problem.

And contrary to belief, the devs don't have an issue on 2/6 servers. They don't have an issue at all.

I think the bigger issue with housing is that it's a one time buy. Sure, they can release more houses over time and some people will just buy them all, but that's a lot of work for repeat gold sinks.

Some of the talk of gold sinks is preventative in nature. ESO is in a much better situation than other games, but it's a careful balance that on PC is slipping slowly into inflation territory. I'm sure the devs do keep an eye on this as it's been relatively stable over the last 7 years. That doesn't mean to not worry about it at all though.

kargen27 · November 2021

One thing they could do for a small gold sink is quit putting crown repairs in the daily rewards. Maybe increase cost of repairing armor as well. Personally I don't think there is an inflation problem in the economy. The prices flow as supply and demand fluctuates. The vast majority of players can get everything they need and most of what they want.

I think for most things we are in a good balance where you can decide purchase or farm for yourself.

huntgod_ESO · November 2021

vgabor wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Remove the API that MM and Tamriel Trade Center use and the economy will fix. Those addons allow for data that goes far beyond the scope of what the devs intended. They allow for too much flipping.

I'm sorry to say, but you're disillusioned if you think TTC will help you with any high volume flipping. While I didn't bother with flipping, I've been in top trading guilds where I saw serious flippers porting through each zone to check guild traders everywhere regularly and snatch up deals before they even are shown on TTC. If you try to follow TTC you're simply too late and the items you see really worth to flip will not be there at the merchant when you arrive as someone making their regular rounds already took them.

That is absolutely incorrect, but flippers have the same access to TTC and have probably automated things a big so they can search faster or ve alerted when something pops that meets their criteria. I could script something pretty easily to automate this and then as soon as it pops, I go there. But the idea of manually going from trader to trader and dealing with the tremendous load times for specific searches, then changing those searches and on and on, seems like way more work than needed.

If I am trying to get something that people are actively flipping, that is what I do, I watch TTC and refresh it frequently, when something pops, I port there immediately and most of the time get it in time. But once that listing time goes from NOW to 5 minutes, it's gone.

kargen27 · November 2021

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

vgabor wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Remove the API that MM and Tamriel Trade Center use and the economy will fix. Those addons allow for data that goes far beyond the scope of what the devs intended. They allow for too much flipping.

I'm sorry to say, but you're disillusioned if you think TTC will help you with any high volume flipping. While I didn't bother with flipping, I've been in top trading guilds where I saw serious flippers porting through each zone to check guild traders everywhere regularly and snatch up deals before they even are shown on TTC. If you try to follow TTC you're simply too late and the items you see really worth to flip will not be there at the merchant when you arrive as someone making their regular rounds already took them.

That is absolutely incorrect, but flippers have the same access to TTC and have probably automated things a big so they can search faster or ve alerted when something pops that meets their criteria. I could script something pretty easily to automate this and then as soon as it pops, I go there. But the idea of manually going from trader to trader and dealing with the tremendous load times for specific searches, then changing those searches and on and on, seems like way more work than needed.

If I am trying to get something that people are actively flipping, that is what I do, I watch TTC and refresh it frequently, when something pops, I port there immediately and most of the time get it in time. But once that listing time goes from NOW to 5 minutes, it's gone.

Flippers have a route. They are proactive in searching for items. Not specific items but any item that is under priced. It is their end game. They get in the game update their price sheet (many have their own spread sheet they have created) and then hit the circle. I know because several were in a trade guild I was a member of and they would talk in discord about that kind of stuff. For them the hunt for a bargain was/is fun. It might also surprise you what they make most their gold flipping. Usually isn't motifs and things like that. If they find a low priced motif sure they grab it but they are looking for bulk.

If you are looking for that weapon or motif that there are less than 50 listed at any given time and most those already gone then you are not competing with the serious flippers.

AlnilamE · November 2021

morrowjen wrote: »

gamergirldk wrote: »

Let us buy Transmution crystals now that would drain gold out of ppl

I would love this. I'm a caregiver for someone who is very sick. Doing group content just isn't always possible right now because I never know when I'll be needed for an emergency but I still need transmutes.

Go to Cyrodiil and repair walls with all your characters until each has 25k AP and you'll get 50 transmutes at the end of the campaign.

You can do this at your leisure, and if you need to afk, the worst thing that can happen is your keep gets taken over and you die.

catskin · November 2021

so, whats wrong with a bit of inflation? ZOS made a change the other day, gave the ESO + people a larger monthly crowns stipend effecting the crown to gold prices and the economy in ways no customer with their limited information can predict , I would bet they can make tons of those type of adjustments if needed. Their first question is, it even needed. economists are like the weather, there is always somebody screaming that the sky is falling. Inflation? Earn More Gold.

I can't dps for sheet, should they change the game to fit me? give me a fancy proc set? oh wait....never mind.

ZOS_Volpe · November 2021

Greetings,

As we do not allow conspiracy theories or misinformation, we are now going to close this thread. We understand that everyone has their own opinions they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community.

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.