VaranisArano wrote: »But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.
VaranisArano wrote: »But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.
The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.
Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.
FlopsyPrince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.
The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.
Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.
Exactly.
It may not be true, but this kind of behavior gives the impression they don't care, even for comments on things on the test server. Why even have that if you are going to ignore feedback?
SeaGtGruff wrote: »corrosivechains wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Gamerscape2007 wrote: »Of course, Eso will continue to go on. Idk where you get the thriving part, but it doing good. If it is thriving, Good. You like the game? Awesome. [snip]
The game has grown every year for the past few years and turned it's reputation around from one of the worst MMOs at launch, to one of the best. It's also making plenty of money with people eager to make purchases and items people want to see in the cash shop commonly requested.
You may not like it, but I think most would describe this game as thriving by any metric. [snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]
this is objectively false:
https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline/stats
As you can see the game is in a steady decline in player base again. It was climbing for awhile and saw some spikes with new content, but it's back to dropping.
Edit: Also, performance is more than just how much FPS you get while sitting in your personal house. This IS NOT a single-player game.
Something seems off on that page.
Look at the graph near the top of the page.
Then scroll down and look at the list of monthly numbers.
They don't jive with each other.
SilverBride wrote: »corrosivechains wrote: »
https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline/stats
As you can see the game is in a steady decline in player base again. It was climbing for awhile and saw some spikes with new content, but it's back to dropping.
This is the second thread that linked to those stats as proof that ESO is losing players but it actually shows the exact opposite.
You can't pull out a small section of a graph and get an accurate picture. Take a look at the graph from 2016 to today and you see the numbers steadily rising for the past 5 years. You also see normal fluctuations, but the general direction is up.
The numbers in the list below the graph also show a consistent increase in subscribers and active players for the past 5 years.
joerginger wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.
The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.
Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.
Exactly.
It may not be true, but this kind of behavior gives the impression they don't care, even for comments on things on the test server. Why even have that if you are going to ignore feedback?
They need the PTS not for any actual testing, but as a tool for promotion. Streamers can then generate hype for the next thing ZOS is about to release.
corrosivechains wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »corrosivechains wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Gamerscape2007 wrote: »Of course, Eso will continue to go on. Idk where you get the thriving part, but it doing good. If it is thriving, Good. You like the game? Awesome. [snip]
The game has grown every year for the past few years and turned it's reputation around from one of the worst MMOs at launch, to one of the best. It's also making plenty of money with people eager to make purchases and items people want to see in the cash shop commonly requested.
You may not like it, but I think most would describe this game as thriving by any metric. [snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]
this is objectively false:
https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline/stats
As you can see the game is in a steady decline in player base again. It was climbing for awhile and saw some spikes with new content, but it's back to dropping.
Edit: Also, performance is more than just how much FPS you get while sitting in your personal house. This IS NOT a single-player game.
Something seems off on that page.
Look at the graph near the top of the page.
Then scroll down and look at the list of monthly numbers.
They don't jive with each other.
You mean monthly averages?
Jeffrey530 wrote: »Gamerscape2007 wrote: »
Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.
I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.
Edit Formating
They mean the players that have played since Beta and spent literally thousands of dollars on the game over the years. Myself I'm over $3,500 paid to play this game total. So ya, people like us do expect to be listened to when things aren't working as advertised.
Jeffrey530 wrote: »Jeffrey530 wrote: »Gamerscape2007 wrote: »
Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.
I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.
Edit Formating
They mean the players that have played since Beta and spent literally thousands of dollars on the game over the years. Myself I'm over $3,500 paid to play this game total. So ya, people like us do expect to be listened to when things aren't working as advertised.
Imagine thinking $3500 is a lot lol spanning over 8 years. Most of us who played for 5-8+ years would have spent similar or even more than that. Tell me again if they haven't listened to you after you pump in billions to get some shares, then I'll feel for you. When I find eso not enjoyable anymore I'll just leave and find another game, I honestly don't understand the ' I need to reveal how much one spent in a game thus the gaming company has to listen to me' logic
Using your logic, McDonalds' burger has never looked like what is being advertised nor is it as tasty as it described in the ads, but yet I keep buying their meals for 8 years and now I am 'qualified' to make any demands and I expect them to listen and respond to me! That just sounds foolish.
joerginger wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.
The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.
Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.
Exactly.
It may not be true, but this kind of behavior gives the impression they don't care, even for comments on things on the test server. Why even have that if you are going to ignore feedback?
They need the PTS not for any actual testing, but as a tool for promotion. Streamers can then generate hype for the next thing ZOS is about to release.
Jeffrey530 wrote: »Jeffrey530 wrote: »Gamerscape2007 wrote: »
Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.
I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.
Edit Formating
They mean the players that have played since Beta and spent literally thousands of dollars on the game over the years. Myself I'm over $3,500 paid to play this game total. So ya, people like us do expect to be listened to when things aren't working as advertised.
Imagine thinking $3500 is a lot lol spanning over 8 years. Most of us who played for 5-8+ years would have spent similar or even more than that. Tell me again if they haven't listened to you after you pump in billions to get some shares, then I'll feel for you. When I find eso not enjoyable anymore I'll just leave and find another game, I honestly don't understand the ' I need to reveal how much one spent in a game thus the gaming company has to listen to me' logic
Using your logic, McDonalds' burger has never looked like what is being advertised nor is it as tasty as it described in the ads, but yet I keep buying their meals for 8 years and now I am 'qualified' to make any demands and I expect them to listen and respond to me! That just sounds foolish.
EdmondDontes wrote: »Jeffrey530 wrote: »Jeffrey530 wrote: »Gamerscape2007 wrote: »
Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.
I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.
Edit Formating
They mean the players that have played since Beta and spent literally thousands of dollars on the game over the years. Myself I'm over $3,500 paid to play this game total. So ya, people like us do expect to be listened to when things aren't working as advertised.
Imagine thinking $3500 is a lot lol spanning over 8 years. Most of us who played for 5-8+ years would have spent similar or even more than that. Tell me again if they haven't listened to you after you pump in billions to get some shares, then I'll feel for you. When I find eso not enjoyable anymore I'll just leave and find another game, I honestly don't understand the ' I need to reveal how much one spent in a game thus the gaming company has to listen to me' logic
Using your logic, McDonalds' burger has never looked like what is being advertised nor is it as tasty as it described in the ads, but yet I keep buying their meals for 8 years and now I am 'qualified' to make any demands and I expect them to listen and respond to me! That just sounds foolish.
I sure hope you come across my business and do some shopping. Nothing I could ever do would upset you even if you spent $5k or more.
joerginger wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.
The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.
Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.
Exactly.
It may not be true, but this kind of behavior gives the impression they don't care, even for comments on things on the test server. Why even have that if you are going to ignore feedback?
They need the PTS not for any actual testing, but as a tool for promotion. Streamers can then generate hype for the next thing ZOS is about to release.
SeaGtGruff wrote: »
(1) Nowhere on that list of monthly numbers does the word "averages" appear.
(2) Supposing that it's obvious that those numbers represent averages, and that there is therefore no need to put that word anywhere on that list, let's look at the graph and think about it, taking a specific portion of it as an example.
(2a) The highest portion of that graph is between the two lines labelled "2021-02" and "2021-04." There are three circles-- a bit hard to make out on my iPad, but they're there-- presumably representing the numbers of "Active Players" (according to the heading above the graph) for the months 2021-02, 2021-03, and 2021-04. There are many peaks and valleys on the graph, but that 3-month period represents the highest peak. The graph drops off sharply from the circle for 2021-04 and the circle for 2021-05, rises up a bit to 2021-07, and then drops off steadily after that. But more to the point, 2021-04 is the highest point, and everything after that is lower.
(2b) Now look at the list of numbers below the graph-- the one that says "ACTIVE PLAYERS" above the third column. The list shows that the numbers of both "SUBSCRIBERS" and "ACTIVE PLAYERS" have been steadily growing since 2016-10. More to the point, the numbers for 2021-09 are higher than the numbers for 2021-04.
(3) Hence my comment, "They don't jive with each other."
SeaGtGruff wrote: »So you're suggesting that when both the graph and the numerical list on that page use the phrase "active players" to describe what's being graphed and listed, it might be lying? I'm confused. All I did was point out that the values that were graphed don't match up with the values that were listed below. I'm not trying to suggest that either one is bogus or deceptive, merely saying that they don't jive with each other even though they share the same descriptive phrase-- "active players."
FlopsyPrince wrote: »Many things in the game push players away from the game:
- Inflexible handling of many in game issues.
[snip]
- Not fixing long-term bugs.
- Not adding small and obvious quality of life issues. (Such as multi-fillet).
Yes, the obvious reply that will come is to stop playing, but that doesn't mean it is good to continually poke at the players and those involved with this forum.
Does any MMO provider really listen to its players? Not doing everything they want of course, but listening to them in a clear and relevant manner?
[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]
proteinexe wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Many things in the game push players away from the game:
- Inflexible handling of many in game issues.
[snip]
- Not fixing long-term bugs.
- Not adding small and obvious quality of life issues. (Such as multi-fillet).
Yes, the obvious reply that will come is to stop playing, but that doesn't mean it is good to continually poke at the players and those involved with this forum.
Does any MMO provider really listen to its players? Not doing everything they want of course, but listening to them in a clear and relevant manner?
[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]
It’s not a stop playing, it’s a ‘you dont know what’s happening behind the scenes’. They are probably trying to fix things, and it’s infuriating having an issue which isn't solved, but it’s a gigantic game and they’re team realistically isn't that big.
proteinexe wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Many things in the game push players away from the game:
- Inflexible handling of many in game issues.
[snip]
- Not fixing long-term bugs.
- Not adding small and obvious quality of life issues. (Such as multi-fillet).
Yes, the obvious reply that will come is to stop playing, but that doesn't mean it is good to continually poke at the players and those involved with this forum.
Does any MMO provider really listen to its players? Not doing everything they want of course, but listening to them in a clear and relevant manner?
[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]
It’s not a stop playing, it’s a ‘you dont know what’s happening behind the scenes’. They are probably trying to fix things, and it’s infuriating having an issue which isn't solved, but it’s a gigantic game and they’re team realistically isn't that big.
SeaGtGruff wrote: »
(1) Nowhere on that list of monthly numbers does the word "averages" appear.
(2) Supposing that it's obvious that those numbers represent averages, and that there is therefore no need to put that word anywhere on that list, let's look at the graph and think about it, taking a specific portion of it as an example.
(2a) The highest portion of that graph is between the two lines labelled "2021-02" and "2021-04." There are three circles-- a bit hard to make out on my iPad, but they're there-- presumably representing the numbers of "Active Players" (according to the heading above the graph) for the months 2021-02, 2021-03, and 2021-04. There are many peaks and valleys on the graph, but that 3-month period represents the highest peak. The graph drops off sharply from the circle for 2021-04 and the circle for 2021-05, rises up a bit to 2021-07, and then drops off steadily after that. But more to the point, 2021-04 is the highest point, and everything after that is lower.
(2b) Now look at the list of numbers below the graph-- the one that says "ACTIVE PLAYERS" above the third column. The list shows that the numbers of both "SUBSCRIBERS" and "ACTIVE PLAYERS" have been steadily growing since 2016-10. More to the point, the numbers for 2021-09 are higher than the numbers for 2021-04.
(3) Hence my comment, "They don't jive with each other."
None of which you have highlighted or counterpointed is actually how consumer based reporting works in market categories that are still considered "perishable items and/or purchases". This includes most software and subscription based products.
All the data from Jan-18 @ 10mil vs Jan-21 @ 19mil displays is that they have sold that many chapters and/or first subscription fees. Which also gets bolstered thanks to Covid and people being stuck at home for so long. Most my crew are Covid newbies, for example. Many got the game in 3/20 when things went on lockdown. Which you can see in their own posted trend the uptick in those single sales of 4mil copys/subs in a 1 yr period.
"Active" players and calculations are as simple as someone leaving their subscription active or an account having as little as 1 login per 30 day (or often 28 day) fiscal reporting period.
It doesn't actually mean people are playing the game.
I'm just sharing info about how these things work. Take it or leave it.
Edit: An example - If anyone remembers some years back. WoW claims its growth, from 2mil, to 7mil, to breaking 15mil. All the while shutting down and consolidating servers because those numbers don't actually portray real active logging information.
Even in ESO's case it would be hard to get an "active" count. The shear percentage of people that simply log in to get their dailies/stablemaster/maybe some writs and then log off is pretty unheard of. - I have 6 friends minimum on my list alone that do just this. They'll check out a chapter or DLC, then go back to being inactive.
I am wondering if/hoping we'll get an update on this considering the massive amounts of QoL updates that ZoS just covered in their ESO Live stream today.
VaranisArano wrote: »I am wondering if/hoping we'll get an update on this considering the massive amounts of QoL updates that ZoS just covered in their ESO Live stream today.
Sure we're getting the armory system to let us swap between two builds on the same character, like my PVP healer and PVE tank...but did we get Multi-fillet?
All joking aside, the armory system is a great example of ZOS taking addon functionalities and making them part of the base game.
Greetings,
As we have had to remove and edit a few posts, we would like to remind everyone that Discussing Disciplinary Actions both from In-Game, and on the Forums, is against the Forum's Community Rules. If you have questions or concerned over an action taken on the Forums, feel free to reach out to a moderator, or submit a ticket to the Support team here.
Moving forward, please keep discussion within the Community Rules.
corrosivechains wrote: »MS should probably take a pretty hard look at this company and clean things up a bit from the ground up.
[snip]
[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]
ZOS has been doing their best to drive players away for years, they do not seem to be doing that good a job of it, they are always open to new ways to try though.
I have been waiting 4 odd years to get all the books in the game on my main character, but they just keep adding more bugged books, or just removing a quest reward book completely from the game in order to prevent you getting all of them. How many years did we have to wait for them to make it possible to get all the Cyrodill books, such a simple thing it seems was impossible to fix? And then they go bananas and add yet another book we cannot all get. I do not see that AD lot inviting our EP and DC characters all over to the local Inn at their home base so we can catch up on the latest book. What were they thinking when they made it an AD exclusive?