Marcus_Aurelius wrote: ».Would that really be such a bad thing?Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »This would render the skill useles.
Magblade does not have a healing skill, it can only rely on resto staff rapid regen that half the time goes to someone else.
How you suggest a magblade could survive then?
I'm just joking. I know magblade isn't in a great place right now because it's my second most played class. My remarks are caused by the disdain I have for stamblades. NOBODY with that much burst damage should have access to a teleport and the ability to become invisible at will. It's actually ridiculous.
I'm just joking. I know magblade isn't in a great place right now because it's my second most played class. My remarks are caused by the disdain I have for stamblades. NOBODY with that much burst damage should have access to a teleport and the ability to become invisible at will. It's actually ridiculous.
People seem to love red herrings. The main benefit of cloak isn't getting away because shade does that much better. The benefit comes when you cloak in the middle of a fight, where your opponent loses targeting, and you can flank them and get all the massive benefits from that, damage, stun, etc.
To fix cloak a ramping cost wouldn't do much. But I would say that when in melee range, especially with opponent looking straight at you cuz you are fighting, you should NOT be able to cloak. You should have to run out of melee range first then cloak, and if that was the case ZOS could make the skill even more undetectable. Another change could be that if you hit an enemy from cloak/stealth, you're opponent has 100% inviso detection for 5 seconds, so you can't just cloak/hit/cloak/hit/cloak/hit.
Having instant line of sight which also suppresses dots and incoming projectiles (not all but most) ? Whilst maintaining the ability to heal all the way through? And it can be spammed ? Gives passive resistance when casted ? Gives damage when casted ? And can possibly allow for a stun after casting ? yes seems tuned very well indeed. Wish just one of my abilities give so much for pressing one button which can be spammed.
People seem to love red herrings. The main benefit of cloak isn't getting away because shade does that much better. The benefit comes when you cloak in the middle of a fight, where your opponent loses targeting, and you can flank them and get all the massive benefits from that, damage, stun, etc.
To fix cloak a ramping cost wouldn't do much. But I would say that when in melee range, especially with opponent looking straight at you cuz you are fighting, you should NOT be able to cloak. You should have to run out of melee range first then cloak, and if that was the case ZOS could make the skill even more undetectable. Another change could be that if you hit an enemy from cloak/stealth, you're opponent has 100% inviso detection for 5 seconds, so you can't just cloak/hit/cloak/hit/cloak/hit.
How does it not do all that ? Cloak gives a guaranteed critical hit which is damage. Cloak procs the nightblade passive which gives resistance. Cloak is stealth which allows for a stun. Cloak suppresses dots. Cloak suppresses damage skills such as frags, force pulse ect. When in Cloak you still can be healed. Cloak is not ramping cost and can be spammed like crazy. So yes it does do ALL THAT. Thats not me being bias. Thats me literally stating facts. Its like saying 2 + 2 does not equal 4. Yes it does. And no one can answer my problem with combat flaw with cloak. I shall just stick to 50 of my perfect combos being completely nullified by one button whilst they maintain there almost guaranteed full damage combo against me because I haven't got cloak
With all that said, there are a vast amount of ways to counter Cloak, not even counting the 4 hard counters that not only stip, but completely prevent cloak. Which are receiving a buff in the next update.
People seem to love red herrings. The main benefit of cloak isn't getting away because shade does that much better. The benefit comes when you cloak in the middle of a fight, where your opponent loses targeting, and you can flank them and get all the massive benefits from that, damage, stun, etc.
To fix cloak a ramping cost wouldn't do much. But I would say that when in melee range, especially with opponent looking straight at you cuz you are fighting, you should NOT be able to cloak. You should have to run out of melee range first then cloak, and if that was the case ZOS could make the skill even more undetectable. Another change could be that if you hit an enemy from cloak/stealth, you're opponent has 100% inviso detection for 5 seconds, so you can't just cloak/hit/cloak/hit/cloak/hit.
They already have that mechanic, it's called Stealth.
I suppose we could change the class defining skill that's supposed to work in your face to...."Try to Hide"
Joking aside, NB was designed to spam Cloak to control the engagement, that's the sole reason they have it. I get that some folks hate the playstyle, but damn it's super simple.
Block when they cloak, let them run away when they fail.
Granted it's a bit tougher after they removed the Invisibility condition on SA/Concealed in favor of the positional, but it still works fine.
I see most of the complaints and moaning about cloak NOT from a damage/engagement perspective, but rather from a defensive/dis-engagement one. For some reason people really froth at the mouth when people get away in ESO.
Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »No, there are already so many things that break stealth. This would render the skill useles.
If I said l2p, I'd probably get thrown out of this thread. Let me try and be more nuanced. Stamblades can't sustain cloak. There may be a few who can with Darloc Brae (and who likely have compromised damage for wearing that set), but most can do maybe 3 successive casts of it. They need magicka for Shadow Image as well. Indeed, if you fail to pull nightblades out of stealth, the likelihood is that they're not cloaking at all, but they're using Shadow Image.BlakMarket wrote: »Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »No, there are already so many things that break stealth. This would render the skill useles.
How would it render the skill useless? You just would need to sustain it if you wanted to perma cloak. I run detect pots on all my toons, even on my stam and magdk, I struggle to pull NB's out of stealth.
The other factor is speed. A fast character may outrun even the detect pot of a slow one. I'm as fast as they come on my magblade and I can have a hard time keeping another one in range. Let me ask you this, though: What else have I got? Have you played magblade much? If a magblade decides to f off, you gotta let them go. That's their prerogative. If they decide to fight, there are currently - this being the very high damage meta it is - a few builds that hit really hard. For the most part that involves Proxy Det, however, which you have to cast 8s in advance. By and large magblades remain inferior stamblades when it comes to damage. I play a magblade that can sustain perma-cloak. Not all can. Things have gotten a little easier in recent patches, but I still pay a price for that. I have to build a certain way and my damage is not the best. I am also squishy. I play a sustain build, not a tanky build and not a super high damage build, because you can't have everything. Perma-cloak is the one thing I'm looking for, a feature that makes my magblade substantially different to play from my stamblade. You want to take that away from me? From the weak build that has actually made the compromises to get there? No thank you.
Can I take down a 1vX-spec necro / warden / DK on my own with my build? Nope. Could you do it with a duelling-spec magblade? Perhaps. Could you do it with a currently stupidly OP-even-against-single-targets strategically executed bombing? Perhaps. I, however, the perma-cloaking spec, cannot do that. What do you think the likely outcome is against a stam brawler spec, if I square off against them in the open for any length of time? I die. 100%. Who do you think they kill first, if I put myself in the middle of an AvA fight? Me. I've been collateral damage from Crescent Sweeps, Dawnbreakers and Subterranean Assaults that weren't even aimed at me. That should tell you everything you need to know. A nightblade's defense is only as good as their last successful Shadow Image, Cloak or dodge roll. It's a very active defense. If you play a tankier class, a DK, and you can't deal with that, then that's on you. Your main problem is most likely impatience. It's not a slow DKs place to chase a fast nightblade. If they could do that successfully, the nightblade would have nothing left. It relies on being elusive. As a DK you have to wait for the fight to come to you and, then, one well-timed leap / Vateshran / execute combo will likely kill the nightblade. That's when you use the detection potion or skill. Not sooner. Do not expect to actively go hunting nightblades on your class. That's reserved for other nightblades and streaking sorcs.
Aside from this, ZOS are changing a bunch of things next patch already. Cloak mechanics and detection methods are being reworked. The viability of Proxy Det against single targets will be nerfed again.
Alchimiste1 wrote: »If I said l2p, I'd probably get thrown out of this thread. Let me try and be more nuanced. Stamblades can't sustain cloak. There may be a few who can with Darloc Brae (and who likely have compromised damage for wearing that set), but most can do maybe 3 successive casts of it. They need magicka for Shadow Image as well. Indeed, if you fail to pull nightblades out of stealth, the likelihood is that they're not cloaking at all, but they're using Shadow Image.BlakMarket wrote: »Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »No, there are already so many things that break stealth. This would render the skill useles.
How would it render the skill useless? You just would need to sustain it if you wanted to perma cloak. I run detect pots on all my toons, even on my stam and magdk, I struggle to pull NB's out of stealth.
The other factor is speed. A fast character may outrun even the detect pot of a slow one. I'm as fast as they come on my magblade and I can have a hard time keeping another one in range. Let me ask you this, though: What else have I got? Have you played magblade much? If a magblade decides to f off, you gotta let them go. That's their prerogative. If they decide to fight, there are currently - this being the very high damage meta it is - a few builds that hit really hard. For the most part that involves Proxy Det, however, which you have to cast 8s in advance. By and large magblades remain inferior stamblades when it comes to damage. I play a magblade that can sustain perma-cloak. Not all can. Things have gotten a little easier in recent patches, but I still pay a price for that. I have to build a certain way and my damage is not the best. I am also squishy. I play a sustain build, not a tanky build and not a super high damage build, because you can't have everything. Perma-cloak is the one thing I'm looking for, a feature that makes my magblade substantially different to play from my stamblade. You want to take that away from me? From the weak build that has actually made the compromises to get there? No thank you.
Can I take down a 1vX-spec necro / warden / DK on my own with my build? Nope. Could you do it with a duelling-spec magblade? Perhaps. Could you do it with a currently stupidly OP-even-against-single-targets strategically executed bombing? Perhaps. I, however, the perma-cloaking spec, cannot do that. What do you think the likely outcome is against a stam brawler spec, if I square off against them in the open for any length of time? I die. 100%. Who do you think they kill first, if I put myself in the middle of an AvA fight? Me. I've been collateral damage from Crescent Sweeps, Dawnbreakers and Subterranean Assaults that weren't even aimed at me. That should tell you everything you need to know. A nightblade's defense is only as good as their last successful Shadow Image, Cloak or dodge roll. It's a very active defense. If you play a tankier class, a DK, and you can't deal with that, then that's on you. Your main problem is most likely impatience. It's not a slow DKs place to chase a fast nightblade. If they could do that successfully, the nightblade would have nothing left. It relies on being elusive. As a DK you have to wait for the fight to come to you and, then, one well-timed leap / Vateshran / execute combo will likely kill the nightblade. That's when you use the detection potion or skill. Not sooner. Do not expect to actively go hunting nightblades on your class. That's reserved for other nightblades and streaking sorcs.
Aside from this, ZOS are changing a bunch of things next patch already. Cloak mechanics and detection methods are being reworked. The viability of Proxy Det against single targets will be nerfed again.
a good stamblade doesn't need to cloak more than two times in a row tbh. It wouldn't really affect them much
Andre_Noir wrote: »BlakMarket wrote: »It just makes sense.
Ofc. On top of that it should deal damage and stun (unblockable) when u cast it near someone
TequilaFire wrote: »Not all stamblades crutch on cloak, he is right.
TequilaFire wrote: »Not all stamblades crutch on cloak, he is right.
TequilaFire wrote: »Not all stamblades crutch on cloak, he is right.
Because stamblades can enter crouch after several cloaks. What about magblades?
TequilaFire wrote: »Not all stamblades crutch on cloak, he is right.
Because stamblades can enter crouch after several cloaks. What about magblades?
What about magblades?
TequilaFire wrote: »Not all stamblades crutch on cloak, he is right.
Because stamblades can enter crouch after several cloaks. What about magblades?
What about magblades?
I said it hundred times and will say again, if you chose to play dumb. This change will do nothing to stamblades and will remove magblades from PvP. And it's not like magblade is the stronger of the two.
I wonder how cloak discussions will look like once the pts changes to invisibility go live... Invisibility is going to become harder to break, but one will be able to take damage while invisible so might see more night blades slotting purge.
Once cloak becomes reliable to use, ZOS should consider giving it the roll dodge/streak treatment so that it can't be spammed.