I honestly had a dream last night where you could switch to vet zones and the enemies were all VR 18 to VR 20 (I that tells you how long I've played this game).

Ken_Koerperich wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Revitalizing old zones?

Really??

All I ever see while I play, when I do run across others in game is this:

Standing on Dolmen farming it in milliseconds....

Or speed past every mob to get to the "Quest" marker...

So how, when playing this way, would changing anything change the game?

Running past everything every time you play will still defeat making anything harder...

You're skipping at least 85% of it to begin with....

UGH!

Again, like we've all been saying. Want a challenge, take yourself on over to the Vet Dungeons, Trials, out to the PvPvE Zones and play there.

Those are harder...

Specially the PvPvE Zone, not only do you have to beat the mobs, you got to beat the yahoo's out to ruin your day....

Your examples prove the point of why we need a vet instance.

[removed quote]

Experienced players skip past that content because it isn't worth our time, and when we do decide or need to kill mobs we gather as many as we can to nuke down at once, not because we want to show off, but because it isn't worth our time dealing with enemies one at a time like they're normally arranged.

I couldn't care less about the big bad's army that I just ran past because I already know in advance they're just the same as every other mob I faced, a cardboard cutout that cast skills to waste their own time and who fail to put up even the semblance of a fight. But if the fight with them was engaging, enjoyable, actually a fight, then I would fight them and enjoy it. But that assumes I would even do the quest when I know in advance the final battle will be as forgettable as every fight before it.

And again, experienced players, who already run vet trials and dungeons on the regular, don't want to be told to keep to our corner. We want to actually enjoy the game, and there is no reason other than a time investment needed to make it happen. And when I said it would revitalize the older zones, I mean the people who never went to those zones because they were a chore to do may actually run them, since just because the content is old doesn't mean people wouldn't go to enjoy it.

CP5 wrote: »

Give mobs enough health so they don't get instantly killed by 2 uses of an aoe attack, enough damage to actually register as a threat, and reduce the cooldown on their abilities so they actually pose a threat while alive while removing skills that do nothing but waste their time. Think about conjurers who summon the bubbles that do nothing, or the healers who stand around doing nothing, or the archers who take 8s to fire a single shot, or the tanks that jump out of the map removing themselves from the battle. How are those challenging? Engaging? If they manage to do anything, it's to waste their own time.

People who do dungeons and trials don't want to be constantly told "go back to your corner", we want to explore the world, enjoy the story, engage in the biggest bit of content ZOS puts out, but we can't because that content puts us to sleep faster than the mobs could kill us if we were afk. Some of us want enemies that actually fight back.

then put on white gear and you get all that, that's like complaining normal dungeon mode needs to be harder because you steamroll it in gold optimized gear.
you also just made the game impossible for a good chunk of the playerbase that can't or don't want to optimize and learn to play just to finish a simple quest. guess leveling as tank or heal has to suck again else it's not worth it.
you might not care about when they quit out of frustration or boredom because to them fights are tedious, but are you willing to pay more to make up for the money they are not spending anymore?

CP5 wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier, creating a different rule set for a instance doesn't incur server strain (look at literally every dungeon having a normal and vet instance), nothing is being duplicated, just different rules being applied to a particular instance when it's made, similar to how cyrodiil and IC work. And since ZOS uses this tech everywhere, including overland where there are multiple instances of overland zones already, giving people the option to join an instance with a different rule set is something they already do. It would be a lot less effort than adding companions, who needed new systems, gear, actual voice over work (because someone mentioned how making a vet overland would need VO work which makes no sense), revitalizing old zones so long time players would actually visit them would be worth the effort.

since when is developer time free? also lol at less effort than adding companions, what you want is a revamp of EVERY overland content - are you aware how many zones that are? how many mobs you have to tune, check, retune, QA, and at the end of the day you a) either won't be satisfied because "wah zenimax you s*ck it's still too easy" or b) complain it's "too hard and tedious" now, and if not you someone else?
and after they spend all that time and money on "revitalizing old zones" - which btw long time players have already played through at least once, if not more - it's still one and done content you do for the quests, collect the reward and move on. if you want challenging fights the content is already in the game.

ThorianB wrote: »

I think better rewards should be part of harder difficulty. It's how games work as you pointed out. That is why i mentioned it. It is a motivator for people to try harder content than they are currently doing. People doing harder overland means that some of them will get better at playing and thus be able to do even harder content that would otherwise be much for them if they didn't "work" up to it.

This is actually a current problem with dungeons. There are such big leaps between dungeon difficulties it is hard to improve at them, especially when their is constant pressure by toxic players and accelerated paces set by speed runners. It makes "getting better" in a dungeon setting difficult for many casual players.

ZOS needs to improve the content difficulty curve and make sure its a smooth ride from easy to very difficult and they don't do that. Its all cliffs and canyons. Overland is the easiest content in the game. Even the elite and bosses are easy to solo and taking on a half dozen normal mobs at a time is not that difficult for most people( assuming players with a few hundred CP and blue/purple gear).

Allowing players to choose a difficulty level and encouraging them to play at a higher difficulty would improve the game. The rewards don't even have to be that much better either. 10% more gold per difficulty level and a better chance at more rare gear or items in drops per difficulty level or some such is really all you need.

not to burst your bubble, but that not how it works. we had a classic level progression for the first year of the game - and people quit in droves. and the one that didn't weren't suddenly all experts at the game; the amount of people who would profit from isn't worth it, and those who do don't need challenging quests to learn it in the first place. besides, how hard do you want questing to be? oneshots if you don't dodge the obviously telegraphed attack? people still die to that in vet dungeons and "don't stand in the fire" is as old as a tactic as MMOs are, but why do you think people are still repeating it?

it's also easy to ask for better rewards, but are you aware you're asking for (at least) two different difficulty curves at once? so you get better gear, which makes you stronger, which means mobs still need to be "challenging" to you. what about the next guy who maybe did 50/50 hard/normal content? 25/75? who runs around as tank with health instead of stamina/magicka and doesn't have the SP for extra sets of skill lines? sure, you don't need a tank for normal dungeons anyway, but there are still parts where you profit from it.
also good luck telling that guy to either buy blackwood for a companion or suck it up he will never get the better rewards unless he respecs constantly, for rewards which can only be better numerically, since you can't repeat quests. have fun explaining someone he just missed a crucial title or collectible because he didn't do it on a specific difficulty unless he rerolls or does it on another char again.

I get why people want "challenging" overland content, but I'don't think they understand what that actually means.

Krym wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

I think better rewards should be part of harder difficulty. It's how games work as you pointed out. That is why i mentioned it. It is a motivator for people to try harder content than they are currently doing. People doing harder overland means that some of them will get better at playing and thus be able to do even harder content that would otherwise be much for them if they didn't "work" up to it.

This is actually a current problem with dungeons. There are such big leaps between dungeon difficulties it is hard to improve at them, especially when their is constant pressure by toxic players and accelerated paces set by speed runners. It makes "getting better" in a dungeon setting difficult for many casual players.

ZOS needs to improve the content difficulty curve and make sure its a smooth ride from easy to very difficult and they don't do that. Its all cliffs and canyons. Overland is the easiest content in the game. Even the elite and bosses are easy to solo and taking on a half dozen normal mobs at a time is not that difficult for most people( assuming players with a few hundred CP and blue/purple gear).

Allowing players to choose a difficulty level and encouraging them to play at a higher difficulty would improve the game. The rewards don't even have to be that much better either. 10% more gold per difficulty level and a better chance at more rare gear or items in drops per difficulty level or some such is really all you need.

not to burst your bubble, but that not how it works. we had a classic level progression for the first year of the game - and people quit in droves. and the one that didn't weren't suddenly all experts at the game; the amount of people who would profit from isn't worth it, and those who do don't need challenging quests to learn it in the first place. besides, how hard do you want questing to be? oneshots if you don't dodge the obviously telegraphed attack? people still die to that in vet dungeons and "don't stand in the fire" is as old as a tactic as MMOs are, but why do you think people are still repeating it?

it's also easy to ask for better rewards, but are you aware you're asking for (at least) two different difficulty curves at once? so you get better gear, which makes you stronger, which means mobs still need to be "challenging" to you. what about the next guy who maybe did 50/50 hard/normal content? 25/75? who runs around as tank with health instead of stamina/magicka and doesn't have the SP for extra sets of skill lines? sure, you don't need a tank for normal dungeons anyway, but there are still parts where you profit from it.
also good luck telling that guy to either buy blackwood for a companion or suck it up he will never get the better rewards unless he respecs constantly, for rewards which can only be better numerically, since you can't repeat quests. have fun explaining someone he just missed a crucial title or collectible because he didn't do it on a specific difficulty unless he rerolls or does it on another char again.

I get why people want "challenging" overland content, but I'don't think they understand what that actually means.

Your post was very ranty and hard to follow and make sense of it. But i am going to try...

You are taking two events and assuming one caused the other. What you call classic level progression has been in MMOS for a very long time and games are still done with that type of progression. You think people quit in droves because overland was to hard?. When this game was young there was a severe lack of repeatable content... a majority of early game repeatable end game was PVP based. If you were a PVER before 1T you had very little to do when you reached end game. If you want to keep people engaged in an MMO you either need to pump out new content quickly or you need a load of repeatable content as filler people are willing to do. This game had neither( didn't help the dev team was porting it to consoles as well and not focused on releasing new content). The icing on this failure was it had a required sub.

So to recap:
1. A sub was required to play.
2. The game lacked content especially at the end of the game.
3. The repeatable endgame content it did have was PVP.

No one wants to pay a sub for a game that doesn't have any endgame content for them and most gamers don't like PVP or at least need a majority of their MMO to be PVE. That is why ESO almost died. The population started to climb when Orsinium was released and has been generally increasing YoY since. One Tamriel boosted that not because it got rid of leveled zones but because it went from a sub model to a B2P model which appeals to a lot more players.

It sounds like you think I was implying you are going to get some great reward from upping the difficulty level. You act as if going up a difficulty, gold gear will start dropping or something.

If you actually read my last line, it would be like a 10% increase in gold dropped from mobs and a chance at loot that is more rare dropping than the easier mode. So if a blue piece of gear has a 5% chance of dropping from this mob normally. It might get boosted to a 25% chance of dropping. Or we can go with something like a double loot drop chance(proc) firing 10% of the time where 10% of the mobs you kill will drop( from their loot table) as if you killed them twice. There is a few ways you can go about it none of which would cause the issues you seem to think they would.

I would think that achieves would be the same as they are now. You get the achieves for completing the content regardless of difficulty. Repeatable quests might have achieves for harder versions. Also i am not for sure why you are ranting about companions and rerolling? I don't think you understand the discussion and i am definitely sure you didn't understand my post.

You seem to think just because X has been in MMOs for ages means everyone knows about it. You also seem to think that everyone should "be good" by now because "X" has been around so long so if they die to it, they are just stupid or not paying attention. That's how you come off which is really elitist. Thats also not how the world works. Just because your good at something, its a "no brainer" to you, or it's easy for you, doesn't mean it is for others.

The difficulty curve in ESO is a mess. You go from really easy to a bit harder, to raid mechanics, to vet level raid mechanics. THEN you start vet content. There is no middle area. Its a giant canyon.

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

TheImperfect wrote: »

Satisfied customer here, the rest of life is challenging enough. I like ESO as it is, there is challenge we're needed and relaxation too.

and exactly how would a difficulty slider where I can make the game more challenging but you can leave it on "relax" mode affect your gameplay?

I'm open for that but implementing it could be very challenging if possible.

alberichtano wrote: »

Honestly I don't understand the problem. You want it harder? Well, remove your fancy armor and just use what plain white armor you can scavange. Still to easy? Just use the skin/fur/scales that the gods/moons/hist gave you. Still to easy? Do the same with voidsteel daggers. No enchants.

There, a challenge worthy of Ysgramor! ;-)

I literally beat the main story quest boss under 2-3 minutes (which was longer bc he had a stupid gamic of a mechanic that made him invulnerable so nothing engaging or intuitive) with only a helmet equipped, just weapons, a greatsword. I was level 13/15 with 0 CP points allocated.

ESO is relax MMO i love it.

This game is super easy if you can solo "Vet Trail HM" alone, Can you ?

SilverBride wrote: »

6Kyojin6 wrote: »

I literally beat the main story quest boss under 2-3 minutes (which was longer bc he had a stupid gamic of a mechanic that made him invulnerable so nothing engaging or intuitive) with only a helmet equipped, just weapons, a greatsword. I was level 13/15 with 0 CP points allocated.

And this is bad why? You are talking about the base game and story, not the final boss in a veteran trial. It is not going to be challenging. This is why veteran dungeons and trials and arenas were developed. That is where the challenge is and that is where the challenge should remain.

ESO is perfectly fine for the majority of its players just as it is. If this suggestion were to actually be implemented, optional or otherwise, there would be a lot of players leaving, many of whom are subscribers.

Are people leaving because companions were added? ZOS can add content people have no interest in without causing this kind of caustic reaction, how would this? Out of spite maybe, but letting overland accommodate people who are looking for a meaningful fight that actually lives up to the hype isn't the kind of thing to do that. As is experienced players avoid that content because of how disengaging it is, adding an option that many may not even realize exist wouldn't cause some mas exodus.

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no hype that the story boss needs to live up to because we are presented as the hero who is strong enough to beat them. The hype is for us. If we struggle with boss fights then we aren't living up to the hype.

I believe players would leave over an option that gives other players an unfair advantage, such as increased experience and/or rewards. And those are points that haven't been clearly defined in this proposal.

A few compromises have been presented throughout these threads. Below are some suggestions that would be fair to all.

• An optional veteran overland with more difficult mobs and boss fights - But the experience gained and the drops from mobs, quest bosses, world bosses and chests would remain the same in both instances.
• An optional scroll that the player could activate that would make the quest boss more challenging - But the quest boss would remain a one time fight per character as it is now, and reward the same drops.
• An option to scale mobs to the player's level, CP and gear. It could also take into account the player's experience, such as what achievements they have earned for veteran content. - But once again the experience and rewards would stay the same.

I believe these are reasonable suggestions that would be fair to all involved. What do you propose?

Already made my proposal.

Your 3rd option doesn't make sense since currently the game scales players to the mobs level. This is how a level 5 can be in the same zone as a level 50.
I suggest a slider that adjusts this scaling on my character. That's it. No more rewards for it. No impact on anyone else. Just the option for me to play the main game from the beginning with a new character, using whatever loot drops, and feel like the bad guys that the whole realm can't deal with are actually dangerous.

Why would anyone have a problem with that?

Only take off some armor, remember not evryone played long. Many people start at new.

There is hard content in the game.

Its called Trials, Arenas and Vet Dungeons.

Nestor wrote: »

There is hard content in the game.

Its called Trials, Arenas and Vet Dungeons.

We are well aware. I don't think people are asking for hard content so much as to not make everything overland so ridiculously easy. Or at least give up options to how hard we want it. Give the One Tamriel mechanics already built in most of the hard work for this is already done. All that has to be done is adjust the bonus/penalties per character based on the difficulty we want.

SilverBride wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Your 3rd option doesn't make sense since currently the game scales players to the mobs level. This is how a level 5 can be in the same zone as a level 50...
I suggest a slider that adjusts this scaling on my character.

Then why do you need a slider to adjust the scaling? Also, does the current scaling takes into account CP, gear and experiences, or just the player's level?

Because its too easy, that's why.

As I understand, it scales sub cp160 characters up to cp160. It takes into account gear quality, and I *think* co stars are applied as normal after scaling. I'm guessing it applies some kind of multiplier to all your stats. A slider could just tweak that multiplier to a lesser figure.

A fair point Silver, since some players enjoy the game as is and others are interested in a more challenging fight. That's why I've always suggested there be a simple option in a menu somewhere that you can toggle to just go between instances. And honestly if I wanted to farm gear or exp I would go to a normal instance since it's faster to kill enemies there, even if mobs dropped purple gear or provided double exp, if the fights take longer than twice as long normal would still be the way to go. So be it no bonus rewards or ones that are surpassed by going through normal, it doesn't matter, the option first is the goal.