Again............................? Are you joking?

MikeSkyrim333 · June 2021

MAOofDC wrote: »

I've been playing this game since Beta and this chapter's launch has been the worse launch to date, with the possible exception of the actual launch of the game. Even it would be a close race to the bottom. Bosses not spawning properly, disappearing gear, bugged quests. Last night I was in Veyond and in one chamber there was a hole in two walls. The holes looked out onto the base build plain with a grey sky and checker board ground and everything. Seriously how the hell was THAT missed.

Zos you really need to get your stuff together and you need to do it quickly. You have a boss now and we can start sending complaints up to Microsoft about how the current team is mismanaging part of their multi-billon dollar asset. I suspect Microsoft would want to look into that and make "adjustments" to the staff.

I think Lagmoor was worse

xSurge · June 2021

They've just extended the maintenance with no ETA.

Wolfenbelle · June 2021

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Notify in advance; take it down, sensible ETA till its back up. Taking it down EVERY DAY is a bit ...uhhh unprofessional for a AAA title that has had weeks on PTS.

The problem with their testing is the people that go on it. They just go on to test rotations and see what the best builds will be, they don't actually test it for them.

Actually, the problem with a public test server is that it is public. It is a cheap watered down form of User Acceptance Testing. Real UAT requires a team of in-house individuals who are familiar with the product, who are given test scripts to follow, and who report their pass/fail findings to the project manager and/or development team. When you ask the PUBLIC to do your testing, that is a guaranteed fail.

phil.maricel08ub17_ESO · June 2021

xSurge wrote: »

They've just extended the maintenance with no ETA.

Damn...well been looking for a reason to reinstall D3. No work, no ESO, guess the timing is right especially with D4 dropping later this year hopefully. Maybe just what I needed to help break this addiction called ESO.

Oryctolagus · June 2021

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Actually, the problem with a public test server is that it is public. It is a cheap watered down form of User Acceptance Testing. Real UAT requires a team of in-house individuals who are familiar with the product, who are given test scripts to follow, and who report their pass/fail findings to the project manager and/or development team. When you ask the PUBLIC to do your testing, that is a guaranteed fail.

I mean, the whole gaming industry believes that saying "game!" means they don't need to hire experienced QA professionals at a market rate. Nevermind test scripts, procedures, documentation. Automation, Stendarr forfend.

Or, possibly, too much automation and not enough eyeballs. Who knows.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO · June 2021

Trust in Microsoft.... Yeah bit skeptical about that, its the status quo, but still... better the devil you know.

twev · June 2021

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Notify in advance; take it down, sensible ETA till its back up. Taking it down EVERY DAY is a bit ...uhhh unprofessional for a AAA title that has had weeks on PTS.

The problem with their testing is the people that go on it. They just go on to test rotations and see what the best builds will be, they don't actually test it for them.

Actually, the problem with a public test server is that it is public. It is a cheap watered down form of User Acceptance Testing. Real UAT requires a team of in-house individuals who are familiar with the product, who are given test scripts to follow, and who report their pass/fail findings to the project manager and/or development team. When you ask the PUBLIC to do your testing, that is a guaranteed fail.

Our PTS is more of a sneak preview for people to kick the tires and get some fingerpoking time.

MAOofDC · June 2021

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

MAOofDC wrote: »

I've been playing this game since Beta and this chapter's launch has been the worse launch to date, with the possible exception of the actual launch of the game. Even it would be a close race to the bottom. Bosses not spawning properly, disappearing gear, bugged quests. Last night I was in Veyond and in one chamber there was a hole in two walls. The holes looked out onto the base build plain with a grey sky and checker board ground and everything. Seriously how the hell was THAT missed.

Zos you really need to get your stuff together and you need to do it quickly. You have a boss now and we can start sending complaints up to Microsoft about how the current team is mismanaging part of their multi-billon dollar asset. I suspect Microsoft would want to look into that and make "adjustments" to the staff.

I think Lagmoor was worse

Only for PvP this patch is messed up in so many basic ways.

Checking for holes in the walls is level design QA 101, not even 101 like elementary level thinking. Yes lag sucks and getting dropped because it sucks worse. But it just slows you down or forces you to log back in. Bugged quests and never spawning bosses stop all progression entirely.

The perfect example of this is the Toad Tongue boss daily. No only is the boss spawn timer messed up taking a hour or more to spawn sometimes you don't get credit for the kill and you need to wait for the boss to spawn all over again.

We can only hope they can get it together and fix this. Because if Microsoft come in fires everyone and put whoever in their places, may not have the passion to produce good Elder Scrolls content.

SpaceElf · June 2021

Oryctolagus wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Actually, the problem with a public test server is that it is public. It is a cheap watered down form of User Acceptance Testing. Real UAT requires a team of in-house individuals who are familiar with the product, who are given test scripts to follow, and who report their pass/fail findings to the project manager and/or development team. When you ask the PUBLIC to do your testing, that is a guaranteed fail.

I mean, the whole gaming industry believes that saying "game!" means they don't need to hire experienced QA professionals at a market rate. Nevermind test scripts, procedures, documentation. Automation, Stendarr forfend.

Or, possibly, too much automation and not enough eyeballs. Who knows.

I mean, does ZoS rely solely on the PTS for their entire UAT process? If so, that would be very foolish.

Bradyfjord · June 2021

Hopefully they can stop the random ping spikes that happen. Fingers crossed.

Oryctolagus · June 2021

SpaceElf wrote: »

Oryctolagus wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Actually, the problem with a public test server is that it is public. It is a cheap watered down form of User Acceptance Testing. Real UAT requires a team of in-house individuals who are familiar with the product, who are given test scripts to follow, and who report their pass/fail findings to the project manager and/or development team. When you ask the PUBLIC to do your testing, that is a guaranteed fail.

I mean, the whole gaming industry believes that saying "game!" means they don't need to hire experienced QA professionals at a market rate. Nevermind test scripts, procedures, documentation. Automation, Stendarr forfend.

Or, possibly, too much automation and not enough eyeballs. Who knows.

I mean, does ZoS rely solely on the PTS for their entire UAT process? If so, that would be very foolish.

I've seen weirder things in 20 years of QA, but I doubt it.

Is the dept under-staffed, under-tooled, and under-paid? It's a game studio, so.

MAOofDC · June 2021

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Notify in advance; take it down, sensible ETA till its back up. Taking it down EVERY DAY is a bit ...uhhh unprofessional for a AAA title that has had weeks on PTS.

The problem with their testing is the people that go on it. They just go on to test rotations and see what the best builds will be, they don't actually test it for them.

Actually, the problem with a public test server is that it is public. It is a cheap watered down form of User Acceptance Testing. Real UAT requires a team of in-house individuals who are familiar with the product, who are given test scripts to follow, and who report their pass/fail findings to the project manager and/or development team. When you ask the PUBLIC to do your testing, that is a guaranteed fail.

It's not a guaranteed fail a player might actual produce usable data for them on accident. If they sent an email to every account that logs onto the server they might get better results. Better but not what they could get if they had a robust in house team of testers. What they should be using the PTS for is stress testing the program. Give everyone an incentive to log on to the PTS at a certain time and do a particular activity even non very dedicated players would do that. It would make sure to stress whatever they are trying to stress.

nryerson1025 · June 2021

You complain when the game doesn't work, you complain when they try to fix it. What the f do you want from these people. Zenimax isn't blizzard, we all know that. Appreciate the fact that they are putting the time and resources info fixing it because there are a lot of companies out there that maybe wouldn't do the same

DreamyLu · June 2021

I takes longer than announced...

Elsonso · June 2021

.

SpaceElf wrote: »

Oryctolagus wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Actually, the problem with a public test server is that it is public. It is a cheap watered down form of User Acceptance Testing. Real UAT requires a team of in-house individuals who are familiar with the product, who are given test scripts to follow, and who report their pass/fail findings to the project manager and/or development team. When you ask the PUBLIC to do your testing, that is a guaranteed fail.

I mean, the whole gaming industry believes that saying "game!" means they don't need to hire experienced QA professionals at a market rate. Nevermind test scripts, procedures, documentation. Automation, Stendarr forfend.

Or, possibly, too much automation and not enough eyeballs. Who knows.

I mean, does ZoS rely solely on the PTS for their entire UAT process? If so, that would be very foolish.

ZOS has no UAT.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO · June 2021

nryerson1025 wrote: »

You complain when the game doesn't work, you complain when they try to fix it. What the f do you want from these people. Zenimax isn't blizzard, we all know that. Appreciate the fact that they are putting the time and resources info fixing it because there are a lot of companies out there that maybe wouldn't do the same

Those companies do not have the money or resources.

SpaceElf · June 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

.

SpaceElf wrote: »

Oryctolagus wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Actually, the problem with a public test server is that it is public. It is a cheap watered down form of User Acceptance Testing. Real UAT requires a team of in-house individuals who are familiar with the product, who are given test scripts to follow, and who report their pass/fail findings to the project manager and/or development team. When you ask the PUBLIC to do your testing, that is a guaranteed fail.

I mean, the whole gaming industry believes that saying "game!" means they don't need to hire experienced QA professionals at a market rate. Nevermind test scripts, procedures, documentation. Automation, Stendarr forfend.

Or, possibly, too much automation and not enough eyeballs. Who knows.

I mean, does ZoS rely solely on the PTS for their entire UAT process? If so, that would be very foolish.

ZOS has no UAT.

Um, okay...is that like some neat internal info you know about?

zharkovian · June 2021

I don't think ZoS receives enough information from their PTS, I am sure as someone else said, a good portion of the PTS users are just kicking the tires and not reporting bugs accurately, or at all. Stuff is bound to sneak through no matter what.

Elsonso · June 2021

SpaceElf wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

.

SpaceElf wrote: »

Oryctolagus wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Actually, the problem with a public test server is that it is public. It is a cheap watered down form of User Acceptance Testing. Real UAT requires a team of in-house individuals who are familiar with the product, who are given test scripts to follow, and who report their pass/fail findings to the project manager and/or development team. When you ask the PUBLIC to do your testing, that is a guaranteed fail.

I mean, the whole gaming industry believes that saying "game!" means they don't need to hire experienced QA professionals at a market rate. Nevermind test scripts, procedures, documentation. Automation, Stendarr forfend.

Or, possibly, too much automation and not enough eyeballs. Who knows.

I mean, does ZoS rely solely on the PTS for their entire UAT process? If so, that would be very foolish.

ZOS has no UAT.

Um, okay...is that like some neat internal info you know about?

No.... what evidence does anyone have that ZOS has any manner of user acceptance test? PTS has nothing to do with user acceptance. It is about feedback and tuning. No one can "accept" or "reject" anything. ZOS has first party certification, but this is not a user acceptance test. Chapter previews are marketing events, not user acceptance tests. The class reps can find out what is coming, and they may get access to super secret stuff, but this seems to be to generate feedback, not approval.

SpaceElf · June 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

SpaceElf wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

.

SpaceElf wrote: »

Oryctolagus wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Actually, the problem with a public test server is that it is public. It is a cheap watered down form of User Acceptance Testing. Real UAT requires a team of in-house individuals who are familiar with the product, who are given test scripts to follow, and who report their pass/fail findings to the project manager and/or development team. When you ask the PUBLIC to do your testing, that is a guaranteed fail.

I mean, the whole gaming industry believes that saying "game!" means they don't need to hire experienced QA professionals at a market rate. Nevermind test scripts, procedures, documentation. Automation, Stendarr forfend.

Or, possibly, too much automation and not enough eyeballs. Who knows.

I mean, does ZoS rely solely on the PTS for their entire UAT process? If so, that would be very foolish.

ZOS has no UAT.

Um, okay...is that like some neat internal info you know about?

No.... what evidence does anyone have that ZOS has any manner of user acceptance test? PTS has nothing to do with user acceptance. It is about feedback and tuning. No one can "accept" or "reject" anything. ZOS has first party certification, but this is not a user acceptance test. Chapter previews are marketing events, not user acceptance tests. The class reps can find out what is coming, and they may get access to super secret stuff, but this seems to be to generate feedback, not approval.

I figured because it had the word "test" in it, you know...the public was testing stuff on that server.

GreenHere · June 2021

zharkovian wrote: »

I don't think ZoS receives enough information from their PTS, I am sure as someone else said, a good portion of the PTS users are just kicking the tires and not reporting bugs accurately, or at all. Stuff is bound to sneak through no matter what.

I mean, a quick trip to the PTS subforum can pretty well dispel you of that notion, though. They're basically overflowing with "Yo, ZOS! This looks like it's about to be a problem if this goes to Live servers!" -type threads. 99% of which goes completely unacknowledged, and said problems make it through to live untouched.

Whether it's balancing, bugs, understandable oversights, or whatever -- PTS goers regularly find and report on potential pain points before they ever make in into the "real" game. ZOS just doesn't do much about such warnings and whatnot most of the time.

Ippokrates · June 2021

twev wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

What the actual f*** are we paying you for? Come on now.... lets be reasonable. How many maintenance is this? Once a day? Fire the filth at the top, throw money at the founding team and deeply apologize for not caring about gaming.

So when it happens to the EU server nothing is wrong, but once it happens to the US server the world is on fire? All I can say fine sir is "Hah!".

A lot of us on PC/NA think you guys on EU servers are getting a raw deal.
I haven't spoken to anyone who thinks NA is happily benefiting from EU having issues.

True, but you have so many "defenders" claiming that "we should go out", "it is murican company" and so on... so it nice to see for once how they handle their own treatment. Maybe this will convince some of them to see things from our perpective and quit BS.

Elsonso · June 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

Whether it's balancing, bugs, understandable oversights, or whatever -- PTS goers regularly find and report on potential pain points before they ever make in into the "real" game. ZOS just doesn't do much about such warnings and whatnot most of the time.

This is largely because they go directly from PTS to Live with no work period between. If they really intended to fix the stuff found on PTS before they went to Live, there would be more time between the final PTS drop and the first build for certification. They would use this time to address problems found by players during PTS.

Instead, these problems go into the backlog as if they were reported on Live and fixed as they get time, some before launch and the rest after launch, if ever.

Mahabahabtha · June 2021

danno8 wrote: »

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

If the problem is companion gear disappearing, I can see why they might want to fix it now and not wait another week.

A backend issue could certainly be disappearing gear if the servers are not properly saving your inventory or recording loot drops for specific items.

Could.... but why EU is still up, who have the same problems ?

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO · June 2021

So... erm, how do we fix this *** show?

phil.maricel08ub17_ESO · June 2021

Ippokrates wrote: »

And how many

twev wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

What the actual f*** are we paying you for? Come on now.... lets be reasonable. How many maintenance is this? Once a day? Fire the filth at the top, throw money at the founding team and deeply apologize for not caring about gaming.

So when it happens to the EU server nothing is wrong, but once it happens to the US server the world is on fire? All I can say fine sir is "Hah!".

A lot of us on PC/NA think you guys on EU servers are getting a raw deal.
I haven't spoken to anyone who thinks NA is happily benefiting from EU having issues.

True, but you have so many "defenders" claiming that "we should go out", "it is murican company" and so on... so it nice to see for three once how they handle their own treatment. Maybe this will convince some of them to see things from our perpective and quit BS.

I just want to say that anyone that even uses the term "Murica or Murican" should be completely disregarded and their post should be viewed as complete and utter ignorance. Please do not let deplorables get under your skin. Most sensible folks here that are genuine gamers feel for you guys over there having to deal with the constant issues surrounding your servers.

GreenHere · June 2021

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

So... erm, how do we fix this *** show?

We don't.

We wait (im)patiently while they do their work, and hope everything is working alright when they let us all barge back into the servers again.

scorpius2k1 · June 2021

Maintenance is going to be extended today.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7282103/#Comment_7282103

crazepdx · June 2021

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Notify in advance; take it down, sensible ETA till its back up. Taking it down EVERY DAY is a bit ...uhhh unprofessional for a AAA title that has had weeks on PTS.

The problem with their testing is the people that go on it. They just go on to test rotations and see what the best builds will be, they don't actually test it for them.

That is not correct. Go check the pts forums. Not only are their numerous parts regarding the problems now being faced with the companions and other areas of the current dlc, you will notice they started day 1 of release on pts. Add to that all the tickets submitted etc...
These issues have been known, talked about and alternatives suggested. ZOS chose to let these issues go live.

jdamuso · June 2021

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

What the actual [snip] are we paying you for? Come on now.... lets be reasonable. How many maintenance is this? Once a day? [snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

You're complaining that they are fixing what is broken, which is what we are paying them for.

What a silly statement.