The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
psa: light attack weave.
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Rescorla_ESO✭✭✭✭
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AFAIK there are only a small handful of ultimate skills that have a channel time longer than 1 second. All other class and weapon skills can still be used in LA weaves because the cast time is lower than the 0.8 second global cooldown.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 11, 2021 1:16PM1 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
No, just get rid of it. The point of LAs is to apply weapon effects, the point of heavy attacks is to regen resources. The value of a skill should not be dictated whether or not you can bug it out. Add a GCD to LA and add block to the CD list. Rebalance the game back to sane levels.
While I believe ZOS should constantly keep the power creep stats create over time in an MMORPG, I'm not a fan of lowering the skill ceiling on any level. Lowering how much damage a player does is fine, but taking away the ability to do that damage out of the hands of the player is always bad news bears. There should be a disparity between player skill, even at a high level. There will always be players who have mastered something so well they do it better than everyone else around them. That's just how every MMORPG has been (which is what ESO is), and how everything is in RL.
LA weaving is just one of the many skills a player can choose to master, or choose to ignore. If you choose to forgo performing it, that's your choice....play the game how you want. But your performance and success should prominently reflect that.
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You do realise that You can do more then enough DPS to complete every vet content in the game without perfect light attack weaving or without light attack weaving at all ? Heavy attack setups are capable to pull over 70-80k DPS. Most brainded I've seen (3 heavy attacks+2 DoTs rotation) can pull 70k and is easily repeatable in real content. That is well beyond overland content.
As for chanelled skills You seem to be quite disconnected from reality. Have You seen templars lately? Their whole rotation (especially on magplar) resolves around chanelled abilities - jabs and radiant oppression. Rapid strikes also had and still have its moments. And if by chanelled abilities You mean also those with cast times then crystal frag (used as spammable) , uppercut , snipe ,chanelled acceleration , dark exchange and few more are really decent and sometimes even used in meta options.
The issue with chanalled and cast time abilities usually is not that it makes light attack weaving less efficient (because it don't) but that it becomes harder to use those abilities in content where You need to move , block , dodge and swap a lot. For example good luck with chanelled or cast time abilities on last boss in vHoF HM when You're in the group that cannot burst through the execute. Chanelled abilities themselves when combined with instant cast ones can also make rotations unstable and clucky. There is also not that many chanelled or cast time abilities in the game that would be worth mentioned earlier drawbacks and even less of those abilities is strong enough to be worth slotting and that has nothing to do with light attack weaving.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 11, 2021 1:18PM3 -
Hexi✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
No, just get rid of it. The point of LAs is to apply weapon effects, the point of heavy attacks is to regen resources. The value of a skill should not be dictated whether or not you can bug it out. Add a GCD to LA and add block to the CD list. Rebalance the game back to sane levels.
While I believe ZOS should constantly keep the power creep stats create over time in an MMORPG, I'm not a fan of lowering the skill ceiling on any level. Lowering how much damage a player does is fine, but taking away the ability to do that damage out of the hands of the player is always bad news bears. There should be a disparity between player skill, even at a high level. There will always be players who have mastered something so well they do it better than everyone else around them. That's just how every MMORPG has been (which is what ESO is), and how everything is in RL.
LA weaving is just one of the many skills a player can choose to master, or choose to ignore. If you choose to forgo performing it, that's your choice....play the game how you want. But your performance and success should prominently reflect that.
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You do realise that You can do more then enough DPS to complete every vet content in the game without perfect light attack weaving or without light attack weaving at all ?
Sure you can.
You just won't get a group that will take you without doing it unless you get carried by a guild group. A few extreme exceptions don't invalidate my point because they require a certain class/gear combo.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 11, 2021 1:18PM0 -
Bobby's_UserID✭✭✭Not gonna lie, I love that this dead horse is beaten up every few weeks.
Weaving will never go away, either learn it or ignore it. They endorsed it long ago, if the would get rid of it, so many things would instantly go into the bin.
And saying the can't fix it is just wrong. ZOS chose to endorse it and left it in the game.
Nightblade would need a complete rework since they would not be able to use their main burst tool, grim focus. Also they would lose all sustain without Siphoning Strikes or Incap. Stamsorcs would lose their Bound Armaments. Everything that grant Empower would be useless. All mag classes would lose one of their most powerful single target skills.
Now lets go over sets that reward good weaving:
Galenwe, Relequen, Blood Moon, Crushing Wall, Essence Thief, Galerion, Hist Whisperer, Kinras, Kjalnars, Maw, Might of Lost Legion, Morkuldin, Noble Duelist, Poisonous Serpent, Queens Elegance, Savage Werewolf, Shalidors Curse, Soldier of Anguish, Spell Strat, Storm Master, Undaunted Infiltrator, Undaunted Unweaver, MK, Z'ens and Zaan.
BTW, you can also weave with channeled abilities. You obviously don't get the 1LA/s, but you still can fire one before you cast it. Templars weave with their Jesus beam and their Jabs, all classes should LA before Channeled Acceleration, Bow builds used to weave with Lethal Arrow, 2h builds used to weave some morph of Uppercut. Everyone is using Channeled Acceleration in some situations. There are so many channeled abilities in some sort of use.
I'm sure I missed a ton of stuff, simply because LAs are such a core concept of the game. And since they are such a core mechanic, weaving will always be the most effective way to play combat. Like it or not, that's just how this game is.Edited by Bobby's_UserID on May 11, 2021 1:28AM2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
No, just get rid of it. The point of LAs is to apply weapon effects, the point of heavy attacks is to regen resources. The value of a skill should not be dictated whether or not you can bug it out. Add a GCD to LA and add block to the CD list. Rebalance the game back to sane levels.
While I believe ZOS should constantly keep the power creep stats create over time in an MMORPG, I'm not a fan of lowering the skill ceiling on any level. Lowering how much damage a player does is fine, but taking away the ability to do that damage out of the hands of the player is always bad news bears. There should be a disparity between player skill, even at a high level. There will always be players who have mastered something so well they do it better than everyone else around them. That's just how every MMORPG has been (which is what ESO is), and how everything is in RL.
LA weaving is just one of the many skills a player can choose to master, or choose to ignore. If you choose to forgo performing it, that's your choice....play the game how you want. But your performance and success should prominently reflect that.
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You do realise that You can do more then enough DPS to complete every vet content in the game without perfect light attack weaving or without light attack weaving at all ?
Sure you can.
You just won't get a group that will take you without doing it unless you get carried by a guild group. A few extreme exceptions don't invalidate my point because they require a certain class/gear combo.
[snip]
Lol. During my 300-700 CP endeavours I was a heavy attack sorc. And I was pugging vDLC just fine. I was wearing mechanical + necropotence + illambris at the time. What I am getting at is, you don't need an optimised build for most of the game's hardest content. And no, I was not "carried" as you imply, cause at the time I was also off healing. Which means I was helping the tank stay alive (not my job) while doing mechs, and occasionally ressing the others that went down.
You can say whatever you want. You can say you can't complete hard content without weaving (false) or that weaving is a bug (false) that people don't use channeled skills (false) etc etc. But anyone with experience in that content will naturally see that you are wrong.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 11, 2021 1:19PM4 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
No, just get rid of it. The point of LAs is to apply weapon effects, the point of heavy attacks is to regen resources. The value of a skill should not be dictated whether or not you can bug it out. Add a GCD to LA and add block to the CD list. Rebalance the game back to sane levels.
While I believe ZOS should constantly keep the power creep stats create over time in an MMORPG, I'm not a fan of lowering the skill ceiling on any level. Lowering how much damage a player does is fine, but taking away the ability to do that damage out of the hands of the player is always bad news bears. There should be a disparity between player skill, even at a high level. There will always be players who have mastered something so well they do it better than everyone else around them. That's just how every MMORPG has been (which is what ESO is), and how everything is in RL.
LA weaving is just one of the many skills a player can choose to master, or choose to ignore. If you choose to forgo performing it, that's your choice....play the game how you want. But your performance and success should prominently reflect that.
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You do realise that You can do more then enough DPS to complete every vet content in the game without perfect light attack weaving or without light attack weaving at all ?
Sure you can.
You just won't get a group that will take you without doing it unless you get carried by a guild group. A few extreme exceptions don't invalidate my point because they require a certain class/gear combo.
[snip]
You can get that DPS on any class with easy rotation without weaving. As for group You can just make one with other people with simillar goals. Only small percentage of people in the game pulls top numbers yet vet content is cleared pretty often. You make situation to look more tragic then it really is. Most of the time when people fail to complete something it's not because their DPS was too lowdue to inability to weave perfectly but because they were simply dying to mechanics. And staying in red , not blocking or dodging on time etc have nothing to do with DPS people are pulling out.
Maybe if a newbie would spend more time figuring stuff out instead of brainlesly watching top parses on YT he would've better concept of what can be good for him. Also why do You bring newbies as an argument in conversation about clearing veteran content? Do You expect for every player to be able to finish veteran content right away?Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 11, 2021 1:19PM3 -
Hexi✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
No, just get rid of it. The point of LAs is to apply weapon effects, the point of heavy attacks is to regen resources. The value of a skill should not be dictated whether or not you can bug it out. Add a GCD to LA and add block to the CD list. Rebalance the game back to sane levels.
While I believe ZOS should constantly keep the power creep stats create over time in an MMORPG, I'm not a fan of lowering the skill ceiling on any level. Lowering how much damage a player does is fine, but taking away the ability to do that damage out of the hands of the player is always bad news bears. There should be a disparity between player skill, even at a high level. There will always be players who have mastered something so well they do it better than everyone else around them. That's just how every MMORPG has been (which is what ESO is), and how everything is in RL.
LA weaving is just one of the many skills a player can choose to master, or choose to ignore. If you choose to forgo performing it, that's your choice....play the game how you want. But your performance and success should prominently reflect that.
[Quoted post was removed]
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You do realise that You can do more then enough DPS to complete every vet content in the game without perfect light attack weaving or without light attack weaving at all ?
Sure you can.
You just won't get a group that will take you without doing it unless you get carried by a guild group. A few extreme exceptions don't invalidate my point because they require a certain class/gear combo.
Something which a newbie will have no concept of.
You can get that DPS on any class with easy rotation without weaving. As for group You can just make one with other people with simillar goals. Only small percentage of people in the game pulls top numbers yet vet content is cleared pretty often. You make situation to look more tragic then it really is. Most of the time when people fail to complete something it's not because their DPS was too lowdue to inability to weave perfectly but because they were simply dying to mechanics. And staying in red , not blocking or dodging on time etc have nothing to do with DPS people are pulling out.
Maybe if a newbie would spend more time figuring stuff out instead of brainlesly watching top parses on YT he would've better concept of what can be good for him. Also why do You bring newbies as an argument in conversation about clearing veteran content? Do You expect for every player to be able to finish veteran content right away?
"Just make your own group"
Yeah and the moment good players see the DPS the non-weavers are pulling they'll leave immediately. They even do it in Vet dungeons. It doesn't help that the overland content in the game is laughable. Back when Vet levels were a thing, you actually had to learn how to play the damn game.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 11, 2021 1:20PM0 -
Hexi✭✭✭✭✭[Quoted post was removed]
LOL
I've never been kicked from a group, not once.
Just because I think the system is completely idiotic doesn't mean I don't know how to do it, or refuse to. Nor do I complain about it while in a group or in guild chat. There's a time and a place for it.
The place for it is here, on the forum. That's what it's for, to voice opinions and concerns.
I have seen it happen though, many times. "lol y aren't u weving?!?" followed by "Umm, what's that mean?" followed by "Player X has been kicked"Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 11, 2021 10:20AM1 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
So making the timing for light attack+skill harder and more prone to lag will lower the ceiling? Please think about it for a moment... It will lower floor while ceiling stays the same...
if interrupted la does not do damage... la weaving as we know it is dead... so the ceiling looses pretty much all the la damage they can squeeze out of interrupted la weaving....
And la spammers lose all their damage, only those who perfectly execute elemental weapon with a light attack get any damage out of it, everything becomes more laggy because now server will request additional checkbox of if animation even happened from client side (which will never happen on weaker computers with worse net), and the laggier the instance the less damage everyone do.
Your "idea" is literally -get rid of light attack weaving for everyone that doesn't live on the servers and has a dedicated gaming computer, and add lag to everyone-
Additionally, the ceiling will "lose" as much damage from it as the floor, since the endgame floor does try to light attack weave.
You could theoretically put light attacks on the same GCD as skills, but this is entirely different from what you said...
endgame floor...holy move the goalpost moly..nobody has ever been talking about "endgame" floor when talking about raising the floor. What is meant by raising the floor is PUG floor. You know those who do 10k dps.
You really did not notice the following line "LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time." in my original post? Buffed LA would help the LA spamming half of the REAL dps floor.
Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag. LA weaving as we know it has the exact same problem. Only worse. One additional check serverside to see if T(new skill) - T (previous LA initiation) < duration LA is not gonna brake servers or clients. That's one check per gcd/la_duration. And a similar check already has to be done to see if T(new skill) - T(previous LA) < threshold_skill_will_not_fire anyway...
[snip]
As for put it on gcd versus mine. Going LA on gcd that has one important drawback. you need an emergency shield, heal, cc break. You are *** until gcd is done. With LA only firing on end of animation. You still can react as fast to a situtation as right now. You just loose the LA damage. Combat really feeling and actually being more dynamic and fast reactive is the really good thing about animation canceling that should not be lost imo.
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 11, 2021 1:22PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
[snip]
Because the lag is that bad. The EU servers are horrid. As an example, here is the screenshot I used to prove a guy that skills can be shot every second without light attacks.In any combat, the server can delay your casts anywhere between 0.05 sec to 0.3 sec, the difference is huge, and with your idea, it means light attacks not going off for those who are further from the server half the time. That issue is real, and starting to call my arguments "bad faith" and "bogus" is ridiculous, as proven in the screenshot.
As for put it on gcd versus mine. Going LA on gcd that has one important drawback. you need an emergency shield, heal, cc break. You are *** until gcd is done. With LA only firing on end of animation. You still can react as fast to a situtation as right now. You just loose the LA damage. Combat really feeling and actually being more dynamic and fast reactive is the really good thing about animation canceling that should not be lost imo.
What? So you can't put light attack on skill GCD because then you can't react to things? It makes no sense, you can still react exactly the same, like you do with the current skills, light attack will just be like any other spammable. You can react well after casting force pulse now can't you? Honestly I don't know how can you call my argument bogus and then say that.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 11, 2021 1:22PM0 -
ZOS_ConnorGmodGreetings all,
After review we have had to edit or remove a large number of posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.
You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.0 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
[snip]
Because the lag is that bad. The EU servers are horrid. As an example, here is the screenshot I used to prove a guy that skills can be shot every second without light attacks.In any combat, the server can delay your casts anywhere between 0.05 sec to 0.3 sec, the difference is huge, and with your idea, it means light attacks not going off for those who are further from the server half the time. That issue is real, and starting to call my arguments "bad faith" and "bogus" is ridiculous, as proven in the screenshot.
yes lag is bad. ping is bad for some worse for others.
All very clear and obvious and well known.
But please explain to me why you think all that affects my solutuon any worse than existing animation cancel solution.
ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
not a fan of repeating myself. have a quote.Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
[snip]
Because the lag is that bad. The EU servers are horrid. As an example, here is the screenshot I used to prove a guy that skills can be shot every second without light attacks.In any combat, the server can delay your casts anywhere between 0.05 sec to 0.3 sec, the difference is huge, and with your idea, it means light attacks not going off for those who are further from the server half the time. That issue is real, and starting to call my arguments "bad faith" and "bogus" is ridiculous, as proven in the screenshot.
yes lag is bad. ping is bad for some worse for others.
All very clear and obvious and well known.
But please explain to me why you think all that affects my solution any worse than existing animation cancel solution.making the timing for light attack + skill harder and more prone to lag0 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
[snip]
What? So you can't put light attack on skill GCD because then you can't react to things? It makes no sense, you can still react exactly the same, like you do with the current skills, light attack will just be like any other spammable. You can react well after casting force pulse now can't you? Honestly I don't know how can you call my argument bogus and then say that.
situation: mouse just pressed for la. saw sth i need to react to. but just missed chance to keep my finger from pressing mouse button
la not on gcd: shield skill can be cast way before gcd duration.
la on gcd: shield skill can onky be cast at end of gcd.
ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭
not a fan of repeating myself. have a quote.Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
[snip]
Because the lag is that bad. The EU servers are horrid. As an example, here is the screenshot I used to prove a guy that skills can be shot every second without light attacks.In any combat, the server can delay your casts anywhere between 0.05 sec to 0.3 sec, the difference is huge, and with your idea, it means light attacks not going off for those who are further from the server half the time. That issue is real, and starting to call my arguments "bad faith" and "bogus" is ridiculous, as proven in the screenshot.
yes lag is bad. ping is bad for some worse for others.
All very clear and obvious and well known.
But please explain to me why you think all that affects my solution any worse than existing animation cancel solution.making the timing for light attack + skill harder and more prone to lag
explain the why it is more affected by lag/ping exactly.
from alcast la guide:
You might soon notice that it doesn’t always work. This is due to your latency. Your connection to the server takes a while and this determines on how fast you will actually be able to make a Light Attack count
lag/ping affects current system already. in case you didnt know.
ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
[snip]
What? So you can't put light attack on skill GCD because then you can't react to things? It makes no sense, you can still react exactly the same, like you do with the current skills, light attack will just be like any other spammable. You can react well after casting force pulse now can't you? Honestly I don't know how can you call my argument bogus and then say that.
situation: mouse just pressed for la. saw sth i need to react to. but just missed chance to keep my finger from pressing mouse button
la not on gcd: shield skill can be cast way before gcd duration.
la on gcd: shield skill can onky be cast at end of gcd.
situation: mouse just clicked on force pulse (yes, my spammable has dedicated mouse button)
skill not on gcd: ?!?!
skill on gcd: shield skill can only be cast on the next gcd.
my point is, if light attack is on the same gcd as skills, you need to stop thinking about light attacks as non skills. it is as any other skill now. if you used it, it is literally as if you used force pulse. your complaint is like complaining that you can't use shield right after using force pulse.
explain the why it is more affected by lag/ping exactly.
from alcast la guide:
You might soon notice that it doesn’t always work. This is due to your latency. Your connection to the server takes a while and this determines on how fast you will actually be able to make a Light Attack count
lag/ping affects current system already. in case you didnt know.
i didnt say it will make it prone to lag, i saidmore prone to lag
which means, you know, it will be even, as quoted more prone to lag
and i did explain why it will be more prone to lag, in the same sentence,
which means, since the timing to get the light attacks work is more precise, and has a smaller window, it is making the timing for light attack + skill hardermaking the timing for light attack + skill harder
and then in later post, i even brought real time reports of howIn any combat, the server can delay your casts anywhere between 0.05 sec to 0.3 sec, the difference is huge, and with your idea, it means light attacks not going off for those who are further from the server half the time.
everything you are asking of me, i already explained in details, and even posted ingame reports created by dedicated combat addons to support those claims.
please read again the information and arguments i already provided for more insight.Edited by zvavi on May 11, 2021 2:07PM0 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
[snip]
What? So you can't put light attack on skill GCD because then you can't react to things? It makes no sense, you can still react exactly the same, like you do with the current skills, light attack will just be like any other spammable. You can react well after casting force pulse now can't you? Honestly I don't know how can you call my argument bogus and then say that.
situation: mouse just pressed for la. saw sth i need to react to. but just missed chance to keep my finger from pressing mouse button
la not on gcd: shield skill can be cast way before gcd duration.
la on gcd: shield skill can onky be cast at end of gcd.
situation: mouse just clicked on force pulse (yes, my spammable has dedicated mouse button)
skill not on gcd: ?!?!
skill on gcd: shield skill can only be cast on the next gcd.
my point is, if light attack is on the same gcd as skills, you need to stop thinking about light attacks as non skills. it is as any other skill now. if you used it, it is literally as if you used force pulse. your complaint is like complaining that you can't use shield right after using force pulse.[
please read again the information and arguments i already provided for more insight.
I dont bloody want la on the gcd!
so your whole "it is like force pulse" is totally bogus. and has no bearing whatsoever on my proposal.
Edited by remosito on May 11, 2021 2:38PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
[Quoted post was removed]
LA weaving is obviously a skill as clearly evidenced by the large majority of the player base (my estimate over 90%) don't know how to do it properly. Like any other skill, the more you practice it the better you get at it. I include myself in that group because I can't get past the 65K DPS threshold due to poor LA weaving on my backbar.
If You can't get past 65k (assuming we're talking about Iron Atro) then poor light attack weaving on backbar definietly is not main reason for that.Edited by axi on May 11, 2021 4:15PM0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
[Quoted post was removed]
LA weaving is obviously a skill as clearly evidenced by the large majority of the player base (my estimate over 90%) don't know how to do it properly. Like any other skill, the more you practice it the better you get at it. I include myself in that group because I can't get past the 65K DPS threshold due to poor LA weaving on my backbar.
If You can't get past 65k (assuming we're talking about Iron Atro) then poor light attack weaving on backbar definietly is not main reason for that.
Yeah probably not the main reason, for sure. There is probably something else that is a bigger slice of the "Not hitting high enough DPS" pie. But subpar LA weaving is definitely one of those pieces, even if it's a smaller slice.0 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
[Quoted post was removed]
LA weaving is obviously a skill as clearly evidenced by the large majority of the player base (my estimate over 90%) don't know how to do it properly. Like any other skill, the more you practice it the better you get at it. I include myself in that group because I can't get past the 65K DPS threshold due to poor LA weaving on my backbar.
If You can't get past 65k (assuming we're talking about Iron Atro) then poor light attack weaving on backbar definietly is not main reason for that.
Yeah probably not the main reason, for sure. There is probably something else that is a bigger slice of the "Not hitting high enough DPS" pie. But subpar LA weaving is definitely one of those pieces, even if it's a smaller slice.
I would aim at rotation and ability/sec ratio. With those 2 being at decent level You can have very poor light attack weaving and still go past 80k easily.Edited by axi on May 11, 2021 7:47PM0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
[Quoted post was removed]
LA weaving is obviously a skill as clearly evidenced by the large majority of the player base (my estimate over 90%) don't know how to do it properly. Like any other skill, the more you practice it the better you get at it. I include myself in that group because I can't get past the 65K DPS threshold due to poor LA weaving on my backbar.
If You can't get past 65k (assuming we're talking about Iron Atro) then poor light attack weaving on backbar definietly is not main reason for that.
Yeah probably not the main reason, for sure. There is probably something else that is a bigger slice of the "Not hitting high enough DPS" pie. But subpar LA weaving is definitely one of those pieces, even if it's a smaller slice.
I would aim at rotation and ability/sec ratio. With those 2 being at decent level You can have very poor light attack weaving and still go past 80k easily.
Yep. And then once your LA weaving improves you'll prob be hitting 90k+ at that point, essentially off to the moon you go!0 -
DawnsLight65✭✭✭[Quoted post was removed]
LOL
I've never been kicked from a group, not once.
Just because I think the system is completely idiotic doesn't mean I don't know how to do it, or refuse to. Nor do I complain about it while in a group or in guild chat. There's a time and a place for it.
The place for it is here, on the forum. That's what it's for, to voice opinions and concerns.
I have seen it happen though, many times. "lol y aren't u weving?!?" followed by "Umm, what's that mean?" followed by "Player X has been kicked"
I am a DPS Stamblade. CP735 I didnt start weaving until just recently. I run PUG dungeons everyday, and have been since level 40 Oct 2020. Some Vet, some not. I was NEVER asked why I wasnt weaving by either group, and I have NEVER been kicked by a group beacuse I didnt light weave.Ra'avi Ahjonihr Khajit Stamblade, Level 1500Master ThiefCrafter and ExplorerHero of the Dominion, Pact, and CovenantMember of the DragonguardFriend to Razum-darFavored of Azura'It does not matter to M'aiq how strong or smart one is. It only matters what one can do.' -M'aiq the Liar1 -
ForeverJenn✭✭✭Get the light attack helper and combat metronome addons to help you discover why you light attack weaving isn't so good. People will complain about using addons like this isn't a Bethesda related game, but come on. The addons help and improved my understanding and dps immensely.
But even without light attack weaving, dps should still be ok. The problem with players doing 3k dps is often because they are a werewolf just to be a werewolf and don't understand the class, or they're a legitimate newbie trying to do what they think is right and not understanding. Be kind and help those folks out. Or carry them thru and congratulate them on their new trophy.
I often try to help new players when I'm put in a random. More often then not, the players are just afraid to say they haven't been somewhere or don't know what they are doing. I've gotten into the habit of explaining fights and helping people understand what's going wrong. Most people are appreciative and I've only had one or two people take what I'm saying the wrong way.
It's the level 1600+ rushing dps that queues as a tank or healer that generally makes the dungeon unenjoyable for 3 other people. But you typical newbie will listen to your advice. I've seen it happen many times.
I often say " light attack before every skill to increase your dps!!!" I see a lot of people slowly attempt this, and they might not be doing much dps but they're trying and it's a start.Edited by ForeverJenn on May 18, 2021 7:50PM2 -
ehgzSoul ShrivenYeah, my DPS was about half of everyone else's. I just started the game.
Looks like weaving is the way to go.
Doesn't seem very intuitive though, you're doing two actions in the time frame of one action. I guess you can do three actions if you throw in an interrupt.
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Russvaj✭✭Yeah, my DPS was about half of everyone else's. I just started the game.
Looks like weaving is the way to go.
Doesn't seem very intuitive though, you're doing two actions in the time frame of one action. I guess you can do three actions if you throw in an interrupt.
.
you actually need to use third action as in synegries or pots regurally while light attack weaving if you want to reach most optimal dps and as for myself i like the mechanich that they put/accidently made and how it works becouse your job as a dps isnt just makign sure you dont get killed by almost any red circle on the ground in vet content its that plus managing to reach high dps on the boss fights1 -
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