Goregrinder wrote: »
Then you would probably want to play MMORPG's like WoW and EQ2. Auto attack systems, tab targeting, and multiple bars full of skills. That sounds like it would be more up your alley than ESO is, because ESO is not about having 7 bars full of spells to click on. It's combat from the very begging has been about choice, mechanical movements, weaving LA/HA between spells, and aiming at a (large) hit box. It's not about APM, this isn't StarCraft. It's about the flow of your rotation, and how consistently you can maintain that flow. Eventually you get fast enough to max out the GCD most of the time.
not interested in mmos at all.
I just want to play elder scroll games.
Too bad they decided on a mmo this round and threw in a really bad in my book combat system...
the systems you described from those others sound way nore up my alley I agree.
oldbobdude wrote: »Related but a little off the main topic. I think the gcd is 1s. Does that mean I can't recast the same skill until gcd passes or does it mean I can't cast any skill until gcd passes? It seems it might be any, but I'm still fairly new and miss a lot anyway.
Nord_Raseri wrote: »@katanagirl1
I feel like I'm missing something here. I wasn't looking down on or trying to offend you in any way. I was just trying to relay that weaving gets easier over time(To point, for me), just start off slow. But also build and class synergy and class familiarity are big factors at play. My friend got me to make a magdk, he does 90+k on trial dummy, while I could only pull 30k(after quite a bit of parsing). So comfortability with a class/build is also a huge plus. As for the trial dummy, I hear you, I don't have one either, I'm just lucky enough to have access to one in a guild hall(You are more than welcome to join, it's a housing guild). Also, sorry for the long write up.
katanagirl1 wrote: »
No it’s not you, I’m just a bit defensive. I’ve been trying this for years. It just doesn’t work for me (on console).
For one thing, NBs endless hail skill has that 3 sec animation that throws me off on the subsequent light attack. My light attacks often don’t register so I have to do two heavy attacks per rotation. That just kills it. 20k dps on a good day.
I’m done spending time with the training dummy. I’ll just farm furnishing plans.
Everyone assumes I don’t know what to do, but that is not the problem.
FriedEggSandwich wrote: »I often wonder if the problems people have with responsiveness on console are caused by bluetooth and wifi.
perfiction wrote: »
Don't forget that consoles are capped at 30 FPS, which further increases input lag compared to PC (60+ FPS). The game is also less stable in general (FPS drops, animations/models popping in due to slow loading etc. Hopefully next gen update will make the experience better). I think there are some issues with gamepad mode as well, my friend plays on really good PC using Xbox controller and he complains about skills randomly not being registered during rotation.
katanagirl1 wrote: »
No it’s not you, I’m just a bit defensive. I’ve been trying this for years. It just doesn’t work for me (on console).
For one thing, NBs endless hail skill has that 3 sec animation that throws me off on the subsequent light attack. My light attacks often don’t register so I have to do two heavy attacks per rotation. That just kills it. 20k dps on a good day.
I’m done spending time with the training dummy. I’ll just farm furnishing plans.
Everyone assumes I don’t know what to do, but that is not the problem.
[Quoted post has been removed.]
FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
Interesting, unless your friend is confirmed using a wired controller that could also suggest that wireless controllers might be part of the issue. I hate bluetooth, it always seems so eager to snooze (conserve energy), and wasn't designed with data integrity as a priority. There's a reason wireless pc gaming peripherals use 2.5GHz.
The tutorial has blocking and interrupting as forced checks you must complete to progress, but I very rarely see anyone low level using these in normal dungeons; even some vet dungeons have high CP players ignoring important interrupts and blocks. A majority of people will just go through the motions in a tutorial, then instantly forget what they've learned because the overland/story content simply does not require it. Putting LA weave training in the tutorial is not going to increase the awareness of LA weaving to an extent that is appreciable. More people might be aware, but not practicing since it is not required.
Ippokrates wrote: »
Have you never been in Unhallowed Grave? ;p
Yes I have. I remember now. The silly grapple deal.
trackdemon5512 wrote: »Before I used Street Fighter as an example. Both Street Fighter 4 and 5 have dedicated training modes which not only exemplify attacks, combos, and specials but also examples of how to chain them together. Furthermore the games have visual logs that in real time show your inputs. It’s excellent for training and more importantly informative for the player.
IMO combat dummies are FLAWED. The results are inaccurate and don’t show you enough. PC has combat logs apparently but that feels more like a developer tool than a player utility.
I would put in combat schools to this game, tailored to each class. You could go in, speak to an instructor, and learn what your abilities do. Many games like Legend of Zelda, Okami, etc have these and they’re extremely effective.
You could also add unique combat dummies that better track player attacks and inputs. A smarter decision seeing as players currently base their abilities off a ridiculous high HP trial dummy that buffs. 95% of players don’t want to sit there for several minutes to get an inaccurate number, let alone do it over and over, wasting their time.
FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
I often wonder if the problems people have with responsiveness on console are caused by bluetooth and wifi. Bluetooth between the controller and console, and then wifi between the console and the internet. Most pc players use ethernet and wired mouse/keyboard. But even wireless peripherals on pc are 2.5GHz, no pc gamer would use a bluetooth mouse (afaik). If I played on console I would insist on an ethernet connection at least, and if my controller came with a wire for data I would use it. Console players love the convenience, and part of that convenience is wireless, but pc players traditionally choose wires for a reason. Just a thought, and I know I'm assuming a lot.
Combat logs are extremely effective on the PC. Especially when you use something like Combat Metrics. You can get very detailed information about your performance, including (de)buff up-times, crit percentage, LA weave misses, how much time you wasted between attacks, how much total time you wasted between attacks during the fight, and so-on. As long as you understand the information you're looking at, you'll be able to see where you could have done way better and how to improve.
Just to illustrate how detailed and effective combat logs with CMX is, I ran out and killed a world boss. This isn't a parse, or anything special, but just to show what useful information the player can get from combat logs to improve their performance. Click on the pics to open their full size.
Those games you listed have the "instruction schools" because there's only one real way to play the respective character, even if there are multiple weapons and abilities. The class system in ESO is extremely dynamic, and allows for a plethora of effective end-game vTrial builds to be used just for Magcro, for instance. There's no single, ultimate meta build with a single, static rotation - even with parsing. Anyone subscribing to the idea of a single, ultimate meta build is just completely unaware of the game mechanics and group cohesion.
The best you can do - if you want to take the time - is to explain and help a fellow player understand. If they don't want to/can't use LA weaving, that's another thing completely.
Combat logs are extremely effective on the PC. Especially when you use something like Combat Metrics. You can get very detailed information about your performance, including (de)buff up-times, crit percentage, LA weave misses, how much time you wasted between attacks, how much total time you wasted between attacks during the fight, and so-on. As long as you understand the information you're looking at, you'll be able to see where you could have done way better and how to improve.
Just to illustrate how detailed and effective combat logs with CMX is, I ran out and killed a world boss. This isn't a parse, or anything special, but just to show what useful information the player can get from combat logs to improve their performance. Click on the pics to open their full size.
The best you can do - if you want to take the time - is to explain and help a fellow player understand. If they don't want to/can't use LA weaving, that's another thing completely.
poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »"I have long been under the impression that neither tool actually registers the attempted light attacks that just don't fire."
The big thing about LA that people forget and often have trouble with, is that if you lose target, it won't fire. The skill often will, and people just hammer away.
The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
So making the timing for light attack+skill harder and more prone to lag will lower the ceiling? Please think about it for a moment... It will lower floor while ceiling stays the same...
if interrupted la does not do damage... la weaving as we know it is dead... so the ceiling looses pretty much all the la damage they can squeeze out of interrupted la weaving....
I switched to PC from ps4 recently, and I can tell you from experience that LA weaving is a chore at best on console. I'd say 35% of the time, your LA doesn't even register. The difference on PC is not to be taken lightly, as it's massive.
Played with a fast internet and wired connection on both, but still LA weaving on console is very very hit or miss.
Really wish ZoS would do away with these sets or add to the timer to be more forgiving for console players.