psa: light attack weave.

Supertonicbaker

I found this mechanic out on accident. At Torinaan with my playing card inspired necro and went to blow up a couple of them scamps with a wall o’ elements. Accidentally hit the r-trigger and thought “HHMMMMmmmmmMMM!!!!” Went to Nestmother’s den to practice because I like having death stare at me while learning skills, rotations, etc, rather than a dummy. It’s really great, if it ever happens. On console, at least, not so much. Been leaning toward heavy attack with sprinkles of LA thrown in for fun. Works great for me when I take on a dungeon.

cheemers

@Flamebait

LA weaving is explained in a loading screen tip. Same as other basic game mechanics like using Soul Gems to rez. In sorry that you find it an intellectually or mechanically challenging concept, but that's not due to lack of in-game explanation.

pelle412

Merforum wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

In the testing I have seen, ONLY the LA portion of DPS that is 20% but the added benefit of doing LA PLUS SKILL about every second adds another about 20K DPS to the mix. How can all these people be so wrong that going from .7 la/s to .9 la/s gives 30K DPS all be wrong. I think that is more accurate.

I just looked at many DPS parses and if you kept the rotation exactly the same but removed the light attacks, that's the figure I mentioned.

ZOS_Lunar

Greetings everyone!

We've removed some posts from this thread as they violated our rules on baiting. We understand that everyone has their own opinions they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community.

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.

scorpius2k1

Weaving, aka "Animation Cancelling", sure it's easy and effective. However, it's yet another example of players necessitating a workaround for a bug in ESO that was never intended in the first place. ZoS adopted instead of fixing it after seeing players "got gud" exploiting and accepting said bug and now essentially labels it as a feature. Thankfully for them, players see this as a proper mechanic now and follow suit to get moar deeps.

It Just Works™

Half working, half malfunctioning game experience is the way. Instead of "L2P" ... "L2W", Learn To Workaround? /s
.

remosito

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Rugby_hook

Since weaving is an essential part of the game, I was expecting to see the concept introduced in the new tutorial but was saddened it wasn't. Would be a great way to teach new players the concept

Goregrinder

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

remosito

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

Goregrinder

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

oldbobdude

Related but a little off the main topic. I think the gcd is 1s. Does that mean I can't recast the same skill until gcd passes or does it mean I can't cast any skill until gcd passes? It seems it might be any, but I'm still fairly new and miss a lot anyway.

remosito

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

All my 10 chars are tanks or healer for group content.

Main reason being the la weave combat system requiring dummy humping. Followed rather closely by df queue times....

I guess having 10 chars and using them all rather regularly. And hating to make each pretty much a copy of the other gear and skills wise doesn't help. To much variation in rotations. Does not gel well with the being an old fart.... ;-)

Sergykid

there's a guide on steam about animation canceling if u think it would help u

blktauna

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

If you forget about LAs you cannot cast all skills every GCD because skills have a small variability in animation duration. The LA is used to shorten the skill animation to one GCD

This is such a pile of bull****, light attacks don't affect your ability to cast skills with a 1 second cooldown at all.

Try to cast a skill with a long animation a couple times in a row and find out how often you can cast per second.

no lie, its a royal PITA with bow skills. Not to mention LA does nothing when I'm at 40m range.

Tigertron

Flamebait wrote: »

A wonderful example of a fun way to design a game, nothing says great time like having to beat on a training dummy for hours at a time for days and weeks to play the most basic aspect of the game. YAY!

Any monster will work as well. I never practiced on a dummy for over a year. I only used them to test a rotation on. Always did my practice on stuff that fights back. It’s better.

zvavi

blktauna wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

If you forget about LAs you cannot cast all skills every GCD because skills have a small variability in animation duration. The LA is used to shorten the skill animation to one GCD

This is such a pile of bull****, light attacks don't affect your ability to cast skills with a 1 second cooldown at all.

Try to cast a skill with a long animation a couple times in a row and find out how often you can cast per second.

no lie, its a royal PITA with bow skills. Not to mention LA does nothing when I'm at 40m range.

come on guys, give me better skills to test, I am willing to find the skills that are not cast every second without la. please. I want to be enlightened. until then, I stand strong on my previous comment about it.

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Goregrinder

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

All my 10 chars are tanks or healer for group content.

Main reason being the la weave combat system requiring dummy humping. Followed rather closely by df queue times....

I guess having 10 chars and using them all rather regularly. And hating to make each pretty much a copy of the other gear and skills wise doesn't help. To much variation in rotations. Does not gel well with the being an old fart.... ;-)

Surprisingly ESO has very few buttons to a DPS rotation compared to almost every other MMORPG on the market. Even BDO requires you to memorize a handful of combos. ESO's is really easy in comparison, especially a One par Stamplar. But hey if you love tanking and healing then more power to you.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

All my 10 chars are tanks or healer for group content.

Main reason being the la weave combat system requiring dummy humping. Followed rather closely by df queue times....

I guess having 10 chars and using them all rather regularly. And hating to make each pretty much a copy of the other gear and skills wise doesn't help. To much variation in rotations. Does not gel well with the being an old fart.... ;-)

Its not hard. The basic weave is just timing and the rest is just fun for me. I love kiting around and banging off various things, as I play with the various enemies. I'm almost 75 myself.

Rescorla_ESO

Flamebait wrote: »

well not sure how people feel they are awesome because they can weave [snip] Honestly I have no problem with it but I know lots of people that do, and doesn't help that ZoS has no clue about teaching anything so I think it's a *** system. If they would not expect people to go and watch YouTube and content creators videos then it wouldn't be so bad, but as it is it's a nonsense system, [snip]

[edited for baiting]

I'm by no means awesome. With full gold gear except for jewelry my best DPS parse on the raid dummy is 55K. My delay in LA weaving is 0.25 on the front bar and 0.40 on the back bar. I know people with a LA delay of less than 0.10 and they end up with 75k+ on raid dummy parses. That is a 20K increase in DPS strictly from being more efficient in their LA weaving. Those players who can get their LA weave delay lower than 0.10 seconds are just flat out better at it than me. Kudos to them because they put the time in to practice and get better.

zvavi

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Flamebait wrote: »

well not sure how people feel they are awesome because they can weave [snip] Honestly I have no problem with it but I know lots of people that do, and doesn't help that ZoS has no clue about teaching anything so I think it's a *** system. If they would not expect people to go and watch YouTube and content creators videos then it wouldn't be so bad, but as it is it's a nonsense system, [snip]

[edited for baiting]

I'm by no means awesome. With full gold gear except for jewelry my best DPS parse on the raid dummy is 55K. My delay in LA weaving is 0.25 on the front bar and 0.40 on the back bar. I know people with a LA delay of less than 0.10 and they end up with 75k+ on raid dummy parses. That is a 20K increase in DPS strictly from being more efficient in their LA weaving. Those players who can get their LA weave delay lower than 0.10 seconds are just flat out better at it than me. Kudos to them because they put the time in to practice and get better.

It is not la delay, it is skill delay. You are firing skills slower. Light attacks are just an extra.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Make a training dummy tutorial already...and add one as a quest so newer players can be introduced to it...heck a seller next to it could sell pieces to assemble it....food for thought.

katanagirl1

Huh, 75k dps.

Maybe it’s easy for you. I’ve had several players try to help me and I get less than 1/3 of that. But that’s not on trial dummy because I don’t have one.

Also, I have way better dps than many on my friends list.

It’s not that easy to get the timing so precise. Be happy it is for you but don’t look down on the rest of us.

remosito

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

All my 10 chars are tanks or healer for group content.

Main reason being the la weave combat system requiring dummy humping. Followed rather closely by df queue times....

I guess having 10 chars and using them all rather regularly. And hating to make each pretty much a copy of the other gear and skills wise doesn't help. To much variation in rotations. Does not gel well with the being an old fart.... ;-)

Surprisingly ESO has very few buttons to a DPS rotation compared to almost every other MMORPG on the market. Even BDO requires you to memorize a handful of combos. ESO's is really easy in comparison, especially a One par Stamplar. But hey if you love tanking and healing then more power to you.

and how much dps loss is there if your timings are off. what is the apm for those?

I think I would vastly prefer lower apm but more skills. Needing to memorize a dozen things. And needing to create muscle memory as well for them are two very, very different things...

zvavi

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

All my 10 chars are tanks or healer for group content.

Main reason being the la weave combat system requiring dummy humping. Followed rather closely by df queue times....

I guess having 10 chars and using them all rather regularly. And hating to make each pretty much a copy of the other gear and skills wise doesn't help. To much variation in rotations. Does not gel well with the being an old fart.... ;-)

Surprisingly ESO has very few buttons to a DPS rotation compared to almost every other MMORPG on the market. Even BDO requires you to memorize a handful of combos. ESO's is really easy in comparison, especially a One par Stamplar. But hey if you love tanking and healing then more power to you.

and how much dps loss is there if your timings are off. what is the apm for those?

I think I would vastly prefer lower apm but more skills. Needing to memorize a dozen things. And needing to create muscle memory as well for them are two very, very different things...

Why do people continue bringing the "high apm" argument, when this game required such a low apm as the ceiling? At least your first part, about it being the timing is correct.

remosito

zvavi wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

All my 10 chars are tanks or healer for group content.

Main reason being the la weave combat system requiring dummy humping. Followed rather closely by df queue times....

I guess having 10 chars and using them all rather regularly. And hating to make each pretty much a copy of the other gear and skills wise doesn't help. To much variation in rotations. Does not gel well with the being an old fart.... ;-)

Surprisingly ESO has very few buttons to a DPS rotation compared to almost every other MMORPG on the market. Even BDO requires you to memorize a handful of combos. ESO's is really easy in comparison, especially a One par Stamplar. But hey if you love tanking and healing then more power to you.

and how much dps loss is there if your timings are off. what is the apm for those?

I think I would vastly prefer lower apm but more skills. Needing to memorize a dozen things. And needing to create muscle memory as well for them are two very, very different things...

Why do people continue bringing the "high apm" argument, when this game required such a low apm as the ceiling? At least your first part, about it being the timing is correct.

maybe because different people have different opinions on what low medium and high apm is for them?

zvavi

remosito wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

All my 10 chars are tanks or healer for group content.

Main reason being the la weave combat system requiring dummy humping. Followed rather closely by df queue times....

I guess having 10 chars and using them all rather regularly. And hating to make each pretty much a copy of the other gear and skills wise doesn't help. To much variation in rotations. Does not gel well with the being an old fart.... ;-)

Surprisingly ESO has very few buttons to a DPS rotation compared to almost every other MMORPG on the market. Even BDO requires you to memorize a handful of combos. ESO's is really easy in comparison, especially a One par Stamplar. But hey if you love tanking and healing then more power to you.

and how much dps loss is there if your timings are off. what is the apm for those?

I think I would vastly prefer lower apm but more skills. Needing to memorize a dozen things. And needing to create muscle memory as well for them are two very, very different things...

Why do people continue bringing the "high apm" argument, when this game required such a low apm as the ceiling? At least your first part, about it being the timing is correct.

maybe because different people have different opinions on what low medium and high apm is for them?

different opinions? this game for dds requires the apm to play a children's song on the piano, the same 10 seconds note song, with the same timing, while tapping on your leg once every note with your other hand. thats the level of apm needed in this game for dds. And just like piano, first approach might be a bit confusing, but a quick session of trying to do it slower, and gradually speeding up, will make you memorize the song and it's "right" speed pretty fast. Naturally in harder content you will also have to move, change targets, etc etc, but by then, hours of practice on the same song (rotation) in real content, should have already made you able to do it automatically. The only exception is when people don't have a "song" (rotation) in their head, so they are just spamming keys. of course they will never be good at the game, since the equivalent is just slamming the piano keys randomly. you don't get better at the piano by doing that. You get better at the piano by playing the same song over and over again.

remosito

zvavi wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

All my 10 chars are tanks or healer for group content.

Main reason being the la weave combat system requiring dummy humping. Followed rather closely by df queue times....

I guess having 10 chars and using them all rather regularly. And hating to make each pretty much a copy of the other gear and skills wise doesn't help. To much variation in rotations. Does not gel well with the being an old fart.... ;-)

Surprisingly ESO has very few buttons to a DPS rotation compared to almost every other MMORPG on the market. Even BDO requires you to memorize a handful of combos. ESO's is really easy in comparison, especially a One par Stamplar. But hey if you love tanking and healing then more power to you.

and how much dps loss is there if your timings are off. what is the apm for those?

I think I would vastly prefer lower apm but more skills. Needing to memorize a dozen things. And needing to create muscle memory as well for them are two very, very different things...

Why do people continue bringing the "high apm" argument, when this game required such a low apm as the ceiling? At least your first part, about it being the timing is correct.

maybe because different people have different opinions on what low medium and high apm is for them?

different opinions? this game for dds requires the apm to play a children's song on the piano, the same 10 seconds note song, with the same timing, while tapping on your leg once every note with your other hand. thats the level of apm needed in this game for dds. And just like piano, first approach might be a bit confusing, but a quick session of trying to do it slower, and gradually speeding up, will make you memorize the song and it's "right" speed pretty fast. Naturally in harder content you will also have to move, change targets, etc etc, but by then, hours of practice on the same song (rotation) in real content, should have already made you able to do it automatically. The only exception is when people don't have a "song" (rotation) in their head, so they are just spamming keys. of course they will never be good at the game, since the equivalent is just slamming the piano keys randomly. you don't get better at the piano by doing that. You get better at the piano by playing the same song over and over again.

so 110 base. does that include bar swaps? then movement, block, roll dodges. peak 150-200 for real content?

Is that high? It certainly isn't low in my book. Medium. But requiring very tight timings.

anyeay... opinion probably was the wrong word. and preference would have been better.

I'd vastly prefer lower. I think la only firing at end of animation, but still cancellable. and with 1 slot more per bar. Buffs at least 30s duration. dots 20. I'd enjoy that a lot more.

zvavi

remosito wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

All my 10 chars are tanks or healer for group content.

Main reason being the la weave combat system requiring dummy humping. Followed rather closely by df queue times....

I guess having 10 chars and using them all rather regularly. And hating to make each pretty much a copy of the other gear and skills wise doesn't help. To much variation in rotations. Does not gel well with the being an old fart.... ;-)

Surprisingly ESO has very few buttons to a DPS rotation compared to almost every other MMORPG on the market. Even BDO requires you to memorize a handful of combos. ESO's is really easy in comparison, especially a One par Stamplar. But hey if you love tanking and healing then more power to you.

and how much dps loss is there if your timings are off. what is the apm for those?

I think I would vastly prefer lower apm but more skills. Needing to memorize a dozen things. And needing to create muscle memory as well for them are two very, very different things...

Why do people continue bringing the "high apm" argument, when this game required such a low apm as the ceiling? At least your first part, about it being the timing is correct.

maybe because different people have different opinions on what low medium and high apm is for them?

different opinions? this game for dds requires the apm to play a children's song on the piano, the same 10 seconds note song, with the same timing, while tapping on your leg once every note with your other hand. thats the level of apm needed in this game for dds. And just like piano, first approach might be a bit confusing, but a quick session of trying to do it slower, and gradually speeding up, will make you memorize the song and it's "right" speed pretty fast. Naturally in harder content you will also have to move, change targets, etc etc, but by then, hours of practice on the same song (rotation) in real content, should have already made you able to do it automatically. The only exception is when people don't have a "song" (rotation) in their head, so they are just spamming keys. of course they will never be good at the game, since the equivalent is just slamming the piano keys randomly. you don't get better at the piano by doing that. You get better at the piano by playing the same song over and over again.

so 110 base. does that include bar swaps? then movement, block, roll dodges. peak 150-200 for real content?

Is that high? It certainly isn't low in my book. Medium. But requiring very tight timings.

I'd vastly prefer lower. I think la only firing at end of animation, but still cancellable. and with 1 slot more per bar. Buffs at least 30s duration. dots 20. I'd enjoy that a lot more.

for some classes? https://www.esologs.com/reports/Qpxng4a2PYmk8bv1#fight=1&type=casts less than 100 apm base. others? https://www.esologs.com/reports/fVD2M3bcK9GZTwQz#fight=1&type=casts 140 casts.
(which 30 of them were bar swap cause full dot rotation). And at peak you will probably reach 240 apm(another 2 action per sec) but averagely you will probably be around 150 apm. Which is again, equivalent to playing a children songs on the piano with on hand, while using the other to use another note every note you play with your right hand, with the occasional random addition of a small note. Thing is, most people don't preform that well, and tbh, it would be great if they preform half as well. Heck, a dd with aoe and boss specific setups, but a bit lower apm, will preform better in dungeons and trials averagely than a 1 build player with higher apm. There are other ways to optimise builds and push numbers in real content other than perfect 1 sec skill rotations, even if you fire skills a bit slower at 1.3. (especially since faster skill firing means worse sustain).

Either way, complaining about the "high apm" this game requires, without even knowing to "play" the simplest song (bare rotation) is like complaining that piano is impossible to some, without being able to play row row row the boat cause you never practiced it enough.

Nord_Raseri

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Huh, 75k dps.

Maybe it’s easy for you. I’ve had several players try to help me and I get less than 1/3 of that. But that’s not on trial dummy because I don’t have one.

Also, I have way better dps than many on my friends list.

It’s not that easy to get the timing so precise. Be happy it is for you but don’t look down on the rest of us.

@katanagirl1
I feel like I'm missing something here. I wasn't looking down on or trying to offend you in any way. I was just trying to relay that weaving gets easier over time(To point, for me), just start off slow. But also build and class synergy and class familiarity are big factors at play. My friend got me to make a magdk, he does 90+k on trial dummy, while I could only pull 30k(after quite a bit of parsing). So comfortability with a class/build is also a huge plus. As for the trial dummy, I hear you, I don't have one either, I'm just lucky enough to have access to one in a guild hall(You are more than welcome to join, it's a housing guild). Also, sorry for the long write up.

Goregrinder

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yep, gotta get your LA weaving down to a T. That's where training dummies become an invaluable tool, you can just beat on it all day long and develop that muscle memory with your LA weaving.

All I gotta do is have fun...

maybe if I would get paid to play the game. I might wanna do something as mindnumbing and soul destroying as standing in my virtual house and hit a dummy for hours on end. But salary would have to be pretty high tbh...

Fun for some of us, means playing the best we can and seeing how we stack up against everyone else. Then improving and seeing yourself rise in the ranks. It's just an indescribable feeling of accomplishment when you aren't where you want to be, then after some effort and practice and will power, get to where you want to be. For some of us, that is where the fun begins.

Totally understand.

Which is why I used I. to describe my view.

In contrast to poster I replied to which said "you gotta get totation down to a T amd get a dummy. and stand in front of it to train"..

just an old fart who hates when somebody tells him what he gotta do or not do... basically.. dont mind me ;-)

If you find other ways to build muscle memory then more power to you. A training dummy is the easiest way, since it has a lot of HP, and respawns after it dies. It also parses you, which can be used a frame of reference for progress. You kill two birds with one stone that way. But if you want to just use old fashioned NPCs, by all means, whatever gets you to the light at the end of the tunnel right?

All my 10 chars are tanks or healer for group content.

Main reason being the la weave combat system requiring dummy humping. Followed rather closely by df queue times....

I guess having 10 chars and using them all rather regularly. And hating to make each pretty much a copy of the other gear and skills wise doesn't help. To much variation in rotations. Does not gel well with the being an old fart.... ;-)

Surprisingly ESO has very few buttons to a DPS rotation compared to almost every other MMORPG on the market. Even BDO requires you to memorize a handful of combos. ESO's is really easy in comparison, especially a One par Stamplar. But hey if you love tanking and healing then more power to you.

and how much dps loss is there if your timings are off. what is the apm for those?

I think I would vastly prefer lower apm but more skills. Needing to memorize a dozen things. And needing to create muscle memory as well for them are two very, very different things...

Then you would probably want to play MMORPG's like WoW and EQ2. Auto attack systems, tab targeting, and multiple bars full of skills. That sounds like it would be more up your alley than ESO is, because ESO is not about having 7 bars full of spells to click on. It's combat from the very begging has been about choice, mechanical movements, weaving LA/HA between spells, and aiming at a (large) hit box. It's not about APM, this isn't StarCraft. It's about the flow of your rotation, and how consistently you can maintain that flow. Eventually you get fast enough to max out the GCD most of the time.