New character experience is a complete mess.

BejaProphet · May 2021

So I never play alts, until the past week when I made one. ZOS badly needs to fix the starter experience. Here is three examples...

1. Starter zones talking about me not having a soul when I have not yet lost it. Can you imagine how this would confuse a true new player? But this is the smallest problem.

2. I come to Vulkhel Guard for the first time. What do I find? People offering me quests for every piece of content ZOS has ever created. Are you kidding me?? I’ve got quest starters there from a DLC and the prelude to the same content in a few cases??? How is any new player meant to sort out this mess? And that with you not 25 quest slots.

3. But here is the kicker! I get my soul stolen, watch Lyris swap places with the prophet, emotional swear to myself that I will find a way to save her. Next, I walk down memory lane with the prophet. I exit the harbor and immediately the psychic projection of the prophet tells me it’s time to rescue Lyris.
I think, “ok, good. But I’m going to get the fighter’s guild skill line really quick so I can be leveling that on the daedra I’ll kill.” I enter the fighters guild and who do I see??!! It’s Lyris herself recruiting me for another DLC!!! Are you kidding me?!

This starting experience is a complete train wreck! I LOVE this game. And I am embarrassed to get people to try it at this point knowing this is what they are walking into. It was confusing to me, when I can remember every aspect of when each thing was added. I can not imagine what a new player must feel like.

omegatay_ESO · May 2021

I did the SAME as you a few days ago. I was like, yah, zos, great job. Not!
Good thing I am veteran and can sort it out. A new player is just screwed.
Had a friend try the game a few months ago. They liked it, but due to no direction, lack of a good new player experience, and just being overwhelmed in general, she quit.

LannStone · May 2021

BejaProphet wrote: »

3. But here is the kicker! I get my soul stolen, watch Lyris swap places with the prophet, emotional swear to myself that I will find a way to save her. Next, I walk down memory lane with the prophet. I exit the harbor and immediately the psychic projection of the prophet tells me it’s time to rescue Lyris.
I think, “ok, good. But I’m going to get the fighter’s guild skill line really quick so I can be leveling that on the daedra I’ll kill.” I enter the fighters guild and who do I see??!! It’s Lyris herself recruiting me for another DLC!!! Are you kidding me?!

I've just learned to ignore these things, but you make a good point
You would think it wouldn't be that hard to insert a couple lines of code :
Check if Coldharbour quest is started but not complete
Yes - show Lyris at Fighter's Guild
No - don't show Lyris at Fighter's Guild
I would think it's possible, because I have NPCs all the time congratulating me for quests I've completed, so I can see the game checks completion

RPGplayer13579 · May 2021

It's because its set up so that the player can do any quest in any order. With very few exceptions.

Soraka · May 2021

omegatay_ESO wrote: »

I did the SAME as you a few days ago. I was like, yah, zos, great job. Not!
Good thing I am veteran and can sort it out. A new player is just screwed.
Had a friend try the game a few months ago. They liked it, but due to no direction, lack of a good new player experience, and just being overwhelmed in general, she quit.

I also recently had a friend try the game. She said she was lost and hasn't been back on.

AlnilamE · May 2021

I agree with the OP.

But not being able to use wayshrines until you lost your soul would be a bit annoying.

Solid_Metal · May 2021

BejaProphet wrote: »

I come to Vulkhel Guard for the first time. What do I find? People offering me quests for every piece of content ZOS has ever created. Are you kidding me?? I’ve got quest starters there from a DLC and the prelude to the same content in a few cases??? How is any new player meant to sort out this mess? And that with you not 25 quest slots..

THIS, SO MUCH THIS !

i just recently create "main" alts, since DK complete bullcrap to play other than for tanking, i want to do zone completion for this alts, and the amount of quest pin is extremely overwhelming, i don't want to do DLC, i want to do main story

ZoS could just simply fix this by do not allow DLCs quest to appear BEFORE the player accept prologue quest, but alas

AcadianPaladin · May 2021

@BejaProphet 's observations are spot on as far as probably confusing and alienating new players. I'm sure glad that the game sent me to Coldharbour to begin the game when I started ESO.

I'm sure there are a lot of moving parts on improving this and pleasing everyone at the same time but I'd like to think that no matter what order you want to quest in that most of us could agree that boosting the quest log to 100 and allowing a subcategory called something like 'Maybe later' where you could stick all the DLC/prologue type quests your encounter in your travels. That way you could accept the quest from Stuga, for example, check it out, see that it takes you to a zone that has nothing to do with your active questlines/you're not yet interested in and stick it in the 'Maybe later' section of the quest log where it would quietly rest and not even show quest arrows until/if you moved it to your 'Active quests' section.

Iccotak · May 2021

I'll say what I've said before: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/571355/i-want-the-original-coldharbour-intro-tutorial/p1

The original Coldharbour introduction was the best one they made. It taught the basic mechanics and it was EPIC.
You start as a lowly prisoner escaping gruesome and terrifying torture, sneaking around to avoid the guards, fighting your way out with the tattered prison rags on your back and escaping the Prince of Domination - what great way to start the game!

It set the scene, it set the stakes, and it gave you direction!
....There was not any of this confusing business to find the original introduction....

Then there is the DLC problem

2. I come to Vulkhel Guard for the first time. What do I find? People offering me quests for every piece of content ZOS has ever created. Are you kidding me?? I’ve got quest starters there from a DLC and the prelude to the same content in a few cases??? How is any new player meant to sort out this mess? And that with you not 25 quest slots.

Another problem with those prologue quests is that they send you to areas of the base game and of even other alliances you haven't been to before

ZOS implement an option to show the DLC quests - this is especially necessary for new players. It is currently confusing and alienating!

Players should start in the base game with the choice to go wherever they want from there. That's where the majority of the content is anyway, especially the Guild storylines & Undaunted. If a player wants to go the the latest chapter - then they can just take a wayshrine at Starter Island, or the boat.

This whole system of having to go find the original Main Quest - which then takes you to Starter island - is annoying & confusing for new players. Now players go from one tutorial to a stripped down tutorial just to properly start the actual main story of the game? That does not make any sense.

Iccotak · May 2021

THIS is how you hook a player into the game, all the other starts were lackluster and had Zero direction.

https://youtu.be/jY6070A_hi8

BejaProphet · May 2021

Well as others mentioned. This is something we veteran players can navigate with only suffering a bit of annoyance. My real concern is how bad of an impression it must make on new players.

Iccotak · May 2021

BejaProphet wrote: »

Well as others mentioned. This is something we veteran players can navigate with only suffering a bit of annoyance. My real concern is how bad of an impression it must make on new players.

Same

cptqrk · May 2021

I too am getting very tired of

"You there, how would you like to do something special?"

Not right now thanks...

"Do you know how long I've been looking for you?""

Not long enough...

Maybe remove the DLC quest starter NPCs and make them free quest starters in the Crown Store. Or at least mute/hide them until you are done Coldharbour?

Elvenheart · May 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

THIS is how you hook a player into the game, all the other starts were lackluster and had Zero direction.

https://youtu.be/jY6070A_hi8

This was wonderful! I have been playing since beta and I don’t remember this. They should have never stopped using this!

RageKing · May 2021

yea i agree. ZoS messed up makign a dozen diifferent starter quests as years have gone by. the original starter quest where you escape coldharbour should be the default.

ANother annoying thing is at the end on main story quest when you sacrifice one of the companions only for them to reappear for DLC storylines later...?

Supertonicbaker · May 2021

When I first started a little while back, I was very confused as to what to do as I was being sent everywhere with absolutely no direction. I almost quit because I thought ZOS didn’t know what the hell they were doing and made a game where the quests were dumped into a trough and you gorge yourself with whatever you wanted. I’m glad I decided to research because now I love this game. But I only loved it AFTER going through it linearly and after having to google wtf I was supposed to do.

New people, look at how the story is supposed to progress and forget about doing any newer zones until after you finish the base game!! You’ll not regret it.

Lyserus · May 2021

yup
We've been talking about this mess for years

Dojohoda · May 2021

It ruins immersion big time

BejaProphet · May 2021

Lyserus wrote: »

yup
We've been talking about this mess for years

I realize a lot of people have. But it’s been literally about four years since I’ve started a new play through, so I never knew it had gotten this nuts.

what_the · May 2021

Aren't they fixing this in the new expansion?
I thought I saw a video on how a new player can pick their starting quest area?

Iccotak · May 2021

what_the wrote: »

Aren't they fixing this in the new expansion?
I thought I saw a video on how a new player can pick their starting quest area?

No, it doesn't fix the problem. It allows you to pick the zone you start in and has some context but it doesn't provide direction to the player nor does it hook the player AND they still have to go find the original introduction to the base game... Which is nonsense.

danno8 · May 2021

AlnilamE wrote: »

I agree with the OP.

But not being able to use wayshrines until you lost your soul would be a bit annoying.

If there is a link between losing your soul and the ability to use wayshrines in the story somewhere I have missed it on my many, many playthroughs.

I doubt simply ignoring this inconsistency would cause any extra confusion especially relative to the current nightmare of prologue/DLC/Chapter quest givers and phased NPC's that actively ruin immersion or spoil storyline.

Crazyprophet · May 2021

BejaProphet wrote: »

So I never play alts, until the past week when I made one. ZOS badly needs to fix the starter experience. Here is three examples...

1. Starter zones talking about me not having a soul when I have not yet lost it. Can you imagine how this would confuse a true new player? But this is the smallest problem.

2. I come to Vulkhel Guard for the first time. What do I find? People offering me quests for every piece of content ZOS has ever created. Are you kidding me?? I’ve got quest starters there from a DLC and the prelude to the same content in a few cases??? How is any new player meant to sort out this mess? And that with you not 25 quest slots.

3. But here is the kicker! I get my soul stolen, watch Lyris swap places with the prophet, emotional swear to myself that I will find a way to save her. Next, I walk down memory lane with the prophet. I exit the harbor and immediately the psychic projection of the prophet tells me it’s time to rescue Lyris.
I think, “ok, good. But I’m going to get the fighter’s guild skill line really quick so I can be leveling that on the daedra I’ll kill.” I enter the fighters guild and who do I see??!! It’s Lyris herself recruiting me for another DLC!!! Are you kidding me?!

This starting experience is a complete train wreck! I LOVE this game. And I am embarrassed to get people to try it at this point knowing this is what they are walking into. It was confusing to me, when I can remember every aspect of when each thing was added. I can not imagine what a new player must feel like.

To be honest, I agree, and I also love this game. When I started playing I needed a chronological order guide just to make it bearable.

Maybe a solution would be, in line with the new starting zone idea, allowing some sort of adventure mode where you select which zones you would like to quest in, and have quest icons become a different colour for that zone or something? I dunno!

Crazyprophet · May 2021

danno8 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

I agree with the OP.

But not being able to use wayshrines until you lost your soul would be a bit annoying.

If there is a link between losing your soul and the ability to use wayshrines in the story somewhere I have missed it on my many, many playthroughs.

I doubt simply ignoring this inconsistency would cause any extra confusion especially relative to the current nightmare of prologue/DLC/Chapter quest givers and phased NPC's that actively ruin immersion or spoil storyline.

Re the wayshries: it's more obscure lore from a book if I recall. Basically there's a theory that all the wayshrines, which are shrines to the divines in one form or another, are connected on some sort of spiritual level that people could in theory access to form a vast teleportation network.... But only if that person was to unbind their soul from Nirn. Which we sorta did.

the1andonlyskwex · May 2021

Crazyprophet wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

I agree with the OP.

But not being able to use wayshrines until you lost your soul would be a bit annoying.

If there is a link between losing your soul and the ability to use wayshrines in the story somewhere I have missed it on my many, many playthroughs.

I doubt simply ignoring this inconsistency would cause any extra confusion especially relative to the current nightmare of prologue/DLC/Chapter quest givers and phased NPC's that actively ruin immersion or spoil storyline.

Re the wayshries: it's more obscure lore from a book if I recall. Basically there's a theory that all the wayshrines, which are shrines to the divines in one form or another, are connected on some sort of spiritual level that people could in theory access to form a vast teleportation network.... But only if that person was to unbind their soul from Nirn. Which we sorta did.

Also, we know that ordinary people who go to the clockwork city (or coldharbour) are essentially trapped there, which obviously wouldn't be the case if just anybody could use wayshrines.

Relatedly, collecting skyshards also only makes sense if you start the main quest.

mocap · May 2021

you can use that tool in map section, duno its name. Quest navigator or something sry )

Lugaldu · May 2021

It's really annoying and I wonder if any new player is playing everything in the "correct" order. I started with Summerset and already in 2018 I stumbled from one storyline to the next and everything was messed up. In December last year I started an alt and it's really a disaster when you get into the guilds of Davon´s Watch or wherever and then Abnur Tharn and Co. are waiting for you and offer quests.
A color code should be introduced so that the player already knows from looking at the quest giver which quests belong to which chapter.

Xarc · May 2021

BejaProphet wrote: »

I exit the harbor and immediately the psychic projection of the prophet tells me it’s time to rescue Lyris.

I think, “ok, good. But I’m going to get the fighter’s guild skill line really quick so I can be leveling that on the daedra I’ll kill.” I enter the fighters guild and who do I see??!! It’s Lyris herself recruiting me for another DLC!!! Are you kidding me?!

The best part lol

I think this has to be reworked, too many inconsistencies and we only have 4 chapters. Imagine when we will have 20 chapters. How many NPCS will come to the new player at vulkhel guard chasing him about "DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG I've BEEN LOOKING FOR YOU"

theses npcs should be in capital cities tbh

FrancisCrawford · May 2021

I think the fix should go to the extreme that, as a default:

The original opening to the game is restored.
You land after that in a starter area (not capital city), as originally envisioned, where you don't get all the requests to go to various DLC zones.

Anything else should be an option for knowledgeable players who want variety.

Admittedly, I have the bias of somebody who first played in the DC. So my first starter area was Stros M'Kai and my second was Khenarthi's Roost. Somebody who had the misfortune to start in the EP might disagree with me a little ...

Iccotak · May 2021

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I think the fix should go to the extreme that, as a default:
The original opening to the game is restored.

You land after that in a starter area (not capital city), as originally envisioned, where you don't get all the requests to go to various DLC zones.

Anything else should be an option for knowledgeable players who want variety.

Admittedly, I have the bias of somebody who first played in the DC. So my first starter area was Stros M'Kai and my second was Khenarthi's Roost. Somebody who had the misfortune to start in the EP might disagree with me a little ...

I started in EP and I agree with you

Ippokrates · May 2021

Well, if you want to immersive playing you need to where to go & what to avoid xd

But surely, ZOS could add some info about thematic chains of quests (similar to Almanach) cause inexperienced players can really get lost with all those chapter/DLC introduction quests that are cummulating in their journal.