New character experience is a complete mess.

Iccotak

ZOS should just have players start in Coldharbour

it is way easier to explain to new players that they can go to any DLC they want after experiencing the intro rather than trying to explain how to properly start at the REAL beginning of the game and to make sense of the story timeline

Also fix the story pacing

seldomseenkd

You're all talking major sense, but unfortunately none of your suggestions will get people to buy the newest DLC so they will never be implemented.

jssriot

I came back to ESO after a long break and even as someone who's completed Caldwell's Gold and all the early DLCs, I found it confusing and overwhelming. Add to it that prologues usually aren't really worth all the traveling and fetching and I can see some of them being wildly confusing to new players with all the zone changing some of them require.

When I started paying, what got me hooked was how well-done the Coldharbour tutorial and the beginner zones were. It made sense, it felt like you were genuinely being guided into the game and it wasn't overwhelming. And since I've been back, I've seen a lot of newer players who after doing the Wailing Prison quest say how much they liked it compared to whatever Chapter tutorials they had originally done. They really need to give new players the option to just do the original progression.

And the prologue quest givers, I don't know, maybe make it clearer they're later game content?

A_Silverius

This is the one reason I have been holding off creating any alt characters all these years. I'm so glad I finished the base game before one Tamriel was released.

Iccotak

seldomseenkd wrote: »

You're all talking major sense, but unfortunately none of your suggestions will get people to buy the newest DLC so they will never be implemented.

true but the way things are now are actually more alienating to new players, which leads to them leaving and never coming back. So it would make sense to try something else

Alurria

It's very confusing, I think it's perfectly fine for the first 15 levels to hand hold and have some linear progression.

PigofSteel

Just put them in their zones...

VoxAdActa

100% agree. There's no reason for Alessio Gulliion to be hanging out in every tavern, pub, and campfire in the freaking world ready to give a new player a quest they don't even have the wayshrines for.

I mean, if you're going to bombard a new player with a million little black arrows and no guidance, at the very least you need to make the quest journal about 5x bigger.

GenjiraX

My thoughts are that they should:

1. Remove all the quest starters (Stuga, “Dragons in your own homeland”, “How would you like to do something worthwhile?”, etc.) until you’ve bought and activated the DLC.
2. When you create a new character (first character on new accounts) all DLC is deactivated by default. At the end of character creation, you’re asked which owned DLC you want to activate and which cinematic you want to begin with.
3. Thereafter, DLC can be bought or activated when you’re ready, at which point the quest starters come back into play.

That shouldn’t be too difficult.

Alekero

I started to play ESO since beta and release (back in 2014) so i lvld up in a proper way. Few years ago i invited my wife to ESO and she started from Morrowind. And i was trying to explain why she must start in other zone and get "soul's quest"and go on in timeline...Anyway she left coz it was quite confusing for her after WoW, SWTOR and few other mmo's where you wont face such issues.
I think (even after 7.0.0 pts) ZOS completely broke this stuff. A new player wont realize without google or guide where to "really" start and continue. Because for ex. if you did Clockwork first and then you start Morrowind - get it?
Best decision for this is to make new player start in alliance "noob zone" and then continue towards to the original game and then DLC etc etc. Without such mess as over9000 dlc quests in first town.
But if you are an expirienced player you can always skip this and everything will be like now.
Wanna see what ZOS think about it. They tried to sort it out but failed again.

SammyKhajit

Alliance and starter zones always have questions from new players about which quest they should start, and getting overwhelmed by so many of them.

Having DLC quests, especially if you haven’t finished the main quest and to see Sai or Lyris hanging around must be very confusing for new players.

Aertew

They could easily fix this by including tutorial in the new starting zone. Then making it so quests don't appear until you did the first main questline.

cheriella

BejaProphet wrote: »

2. I come to Vulkhel Guard for the first time. What do I find? People offering me quests for every piece of content ZOS has ever created. Are you kidding me?? I’ve got quest starters there from a DLC and the prelude to the same content in a few cases??? How is any new player meant to sort out this mess? And that with you not 25 quest slots..

Yup! This! When I started about three months ago I was so lost because of this. I actually had to start over multiple times to learn how that worked, cus it’s super overwhelming and had me all over the place.

It’s like, dude I just wanna be a noob and start in my noobie zone and do noobie quests. Heck I actually still get confused about some quests not knowing it’s the start of a prologue/ dlc quest. But I learned by force to start it and if it’s taking me somewhere far, cancel it lol. OR just check google for that quest before I do it. 😊

BejaProphet

cheriella wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

2. I come to Vulkhel Guard for the first time. What do I find? People offering me quests for every piece of content ZOS has ever created. Are you kidding me?? I’ve got quest starters there from a DLC and the prelude to the same content in a few cases??? How is any new player meant to sort out this mess? And that with you not 25 quest slots..

Yup! This! When I started about three months ago I was so lost because of this. I actually had to start over multiple times to learn how that worked, cus it’s super overwhelming and had me all over the place.

It’s like, dude I just wanna be a noob and start in my noobie zone and do noobie quests. Heck I actually still get confused about some quests not knowing it’s the start of a prologue/ dlc quest. But I learned by force to start it and if it’s taking me somewhere far, cancel it lol. OR just check google for that quest before I do it. 😊

That is actually the current work around. If it sends you to another zone, delete it.

Spearpoint

Elvenheart wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

THIS is how you hook a player into the game, all the other starts were lackluster and had Zero direction.

https://youtu.be/jY6070A_hi8

This was wonderful! I have been playing since beta and I don’t remember this. They should have never stopped using this!

Exactly the same here! When my brother and brother-in-law started playing the game (because I bought them the game), the start of their journey was confusing as well. My brother-in-law barely got passed the tutorial, and retired at lvl 13.. I had to complete the tutorial for my brother, which was about 13 years at the moment. Overwhelmed, he retired at lvl 27

Hurbster

They could start by having all the dlc questgivers vanish. We can start them just fine from in the game. I have not played the new tutorial but is it just a case of yet another tutorial and then you are dumped in a portal room with no clue how to start the main quest?

Iccotak

Hurbster wrote: »

They could start by having all the dlc questgivers vanish. We can start them just fine from in the game. I have not played the new tutorial but is it just a case of yet another tutorial and then you are dumped in a portal room with no clue how to start the main quest?

Yes - because ZOS' design wants to shove players into the content as fast as possible rather than make a meaningful impression.

---

The New "Permanent" Tutorial drops players off in either a chapter zone or an alliance zone of their choosing - but no matter what you choose, you will still have immediate access to a wayshrine to go wherever you want. Making the Portal room pointless.

Also you still have to go "Find the Hooded Figure" to start the game at its proper beginning. Even after that - they will still have wayshrines that can take them wherever they want to go. New Intro Portals would still be pointless.

Meanwhile the Chapters can be started by just going there. No confusing "Find X person" required. So the new tutorial adds pointless feature and wastes time - which is ironic because that is what the Developers were trying to avoid.

The New Tutorial is pointless, bland, & boring, and what's worse is that ZOS thinks it's a good solution to what players have complained about - so what are the chances they are going to change anything now?

Jayroo

combat sucks. period.

"but jay the tip on the loading screen i saw that one time"

no, weaving sucks, stop tricking yourself.

Treshcore

Even though TESO's storylines variety is good, all of them feel disconnected. New character experience, old character experience... If you're playing for plot and lore, you will be disappointed or at least confused.
You will be forced to create stupid theories like I did. Here, here, the latest one here on reddit - all of these texts feel like stupid attempts to find a truth about TESO's broken continuity and accept is as a "serious lore".
However, more I delve into this, more I understand that TESO is more like a bunch of stories told by a very bad narrator, no matter if it's an Elder Scroll itself or this Khajiit who opens Crown Crates. I mean, VERY BAD. Where are all the writers? It's their job to explain all these things, not mine, not ours! We buy the base game, it's story DLCs - and get no clear answer on what happens in there! It's completely not okay.

Lugaldu

Personally, I find that in addition to the problems mentioned, world events always feel weird. I mean, we've defeated all the villains, but Dark Anchors, Harrowstorms, dragons, etc. are still popping up. That doesn't make you feel like you've really accomplished a heroic deed, even if sometimes something comes up in the dialogues like "we still have to take care of some last dragons".

Facefister

BejaProphet wrote: »

So I never play alts, until the past week when I made one. ZOS badly needs to fix the starter experience. Here is three examples...

1. Starter zones talking about me not having a soul when I have not yet lost it. Can you imagine how this would confuse a true new player? But this is the smallest problem.

2. I come to Vulkhel Guard for the first time. What do I find? People offering me quests for every piece of content ZOS has ever created. Are you kidding me?? I’ve got quest starters there from a DLC and the prelude to the same content in a few cases??? How is any new player meant to sort out this mess? And that with you not 25 quest slots.

3. But here is the kicker! I get my soul stolen, watch Lyris swap places with the prophet, emotional swear to myself that I will find a way to save her. Next, I walk down memory lane with the prophet. I exit the harbor and immediately the psychic projection of the prophet tells me it’s time to rescue Lyris.
I think, “ok, good. But I’m going to get the fighter’s guild skill line really quick so I can be leveling that on the daedra I’ll kill.” I enter the fighters guild and who do I see??!! It’s Lyris herself recruiting me for another DLC!!! Are you kidding me?!

This starting experience is a complete train wreck! I LOVE this game. And I am embarrassed to get people to try it at this point knowing this is what they are walking into. It was confusing to me, when I can remember every aspect of when each thing was added. I can not imagine what a new player must feel like.

I would even go that far and say let's turn every DLC and Chapter level 50 only.

Starpulsechic

Xarc wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

I exit the harbor and immediately the psychic projection of the prophet tells me it’s time to rescue Lyris.

I think, “ok, good. But I’m going to get the fighter’s guild skill line really quick so I can be leveling that on the daedra I’ll kill.” I enter the fighters guild and who do I see??!! It’s Lyris herself recruiting me for another DLC!!! Are you kidding me?!

The best part lol


I think this has to be reworked, too many inconsistencies and we only have 4 chapters. Imagine when we will have 20 chapters. How many NPCS will come to the new player at vulkhel guard chasing him about "DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG I've BEEN LOOKING FOR YOU"

theses npcs should be in capital cities tbh

after 20 chapters, maybe also give all those NPC's companions and then the new player experience will them be getting zerged down by NPC's, "do you know how long i've been looking for you", "welcome to cyrodiil"

HumbleThaumaturge

I agree with original post. Just yesterday, I was doing quests in Western Skyrim and ran into several brand new players who were totally confused. Since the current tutorial exits them to Western Skyrim, that's where they started game play. I suggested to all of them: (1) Go do the prison-escape quest/tutorial; then (2) go to the training island for their alliance.

I played the new tutorial for Update 30 on the test server (PTS). I like the new tutorial, and think it does a good job orienting new players to game-play (how-to). At the end of the new tutorial, the new player is given options to go to one of the three training islands, or to go to one of the DLC zones. I'm all for giving folks options; but I would like to see the NPC quest-giver for the prison escape also appear first-thing on the training island. That way, the new play completes the new tutorial, and then is tempted to complete the original tutorial next (to learn the back-story).

A pause to remember: I am so very, very, very, very, very glad that I was able to play ESO as it was (as originally designed) at launch (early access on March 30, 2014), before "One Tamriel." First, the PvE content was much, much harder at launch, which made it more challenging and, therefore, more fun. At launch, there was a systematic progression to the PvE content that guided the new player through learning the game and to learning Tamriel.

March 30, 2014: I exited the prison (original tutorial quest) and found myself in the main city in the first Zone of my alliance. I took a boat ride to the training island and did not leave until I had completed all the quests and content. (It is obvious that the training island was specifically designed to learn game-play.) I then returned to the first zone of my Alliance and completed all the quests and content. Then on to the 2nd Zone, the 3rd Zone, the 4th Zone, and the 5th Zone, completing all quests and content and group dungeons when eligible. Enemy level (difficulty) originally increased Zone to Zone to Zone, so the challenge (and the fun) increased. Now, with "One Tamriel" enemy difficulty is the same in all Zones.

While progressing, I also did the quests in the Main Quest sequence when I become eligible to do so (every 5 levels, I think it was). In the original game, we could not fight Molag Bal in the Main Quest until level 45. Now, in One Tamriel, we can start the Main Quest immediately, and finish by level 15 or so. Also in the original game, we had to defeat Molag Bal in the main quest to be able to move to the Zones of the second alliance. And we had to complete Cadwell's Silver to move to the Zones of the third Alliance. Craglorn, when it was introduced, was for top-level (VR10) players only. The delves of Cryrodiil were also VR10, if I recall correctly.

That's more than enough remembering. In short, at launch, ESO was carefully designed to move the new player into the game . . . systematically developing knowledge, skills, and abilities, as content got harder and harder and harder. "One Tamriel" ended that progression, as it also ended enemies getting harder and harder. The original post is correct: Currently, there is nothing in-game that gives hints to the new player about a best-progression to learn the game, in fact, there are elements that make the new player more confused.

There is, of course, a lot of benefit to the current approach, as it allows players to have fun in their own way at their own time and their own speed. It also allows long-time, highly-experienced players to skip a lot of content they don't want to do again. Case in point: When the game first launched, it took me over 80 hours of game play to get to level 50. Now players do it in 1 to 2 hours. Those players just want a new characters, without the bother of repeating systematic development.

One thing that might help: Move the NPC quest giver who introduces the Guild Finder system from "The Reach" to the training island and the first Zone of the each alliance. Perhaps the NPC quest giver could suggest the new player to join a Social guild or PvE guild to get help with the game?

I really like the new tutorial (with Update 30). I think the developers did a great job with it. Hopefully, they add even more ways in the future that might better orient new players, and reduce the confusion. I agree with original post about maybe relocating the NPC quest-givers for DLC content out of the main city of the first alliance Zone.

Hexi

Jayroo wrote: »

combat sucks. period.

"but jay the tip on the loading screen i saw that one time"

no, weaving sucks, stop tricking yourself.

Indeed it does. It turns the game from making decisions into Guitar Hero. It also looks completely ridiculous with everyone looking like they are having a seizure.

The entire combat system needs an overhaul, but you can't put that in to the clown store so it's never going to happen.

Malborn66

The really frustating is that if you start a new character, you only get the current 'Choice of the current Module' starter.

What is the point of generating all the other intro-quests whch then vanish one a new one arrives?
This is wasting resources for something that only has a limited window of opportunity.
One would have thought that ZOS would have worked this out years ago but obviously they have not or consider it as marketing the 'latest Module'.

There is the odd case where an intro can be started but the majority of cases no chance.

---

Malborn66
PC-EU

BejaProphet

I think two actions could fix it.

1. Connect the prologues with their respective DLC/expansions. Thus there will be only one quest starter each.

2. Within each alliance capital city either find a place or create a space, which is essential a gathering hall where people are waiting to meet the faction leaders to make appeal for help. Place all DKC starters there.

This will accomplish three things...

First, it will make thematic sense for a room full of people all asking for help for diverse things across Tamriel.

Second, it will be obvious they are sending you to content far away as opposed to the local story. And they will be segregated from local quests players are trying to do.

Third, it protects from the initial bombardment while maintaining the “play any order you want.”

barney2525

Soooo.... the point of this is a lot of players are upset because .... we are NOT being told what we have to do, and when we have to do it ..... correct? We have freedom of choice and that's ... bad. ... ?

I might agree, IF the volumes of information that exist about ESO and being a beginner did not exist. Anyone who starts in on a brand new game without doing some research on it, just so they have an idea of what they are doing at the start.... should not complain if they get confused.

IMHO

Treshcore

Also, I think that this is not okay that ZOS representatives do not answer to us here. Instead, they have these rules like "no demanding", "no protesting", etc. I am sorry, we bought these products - we deserve our problems to be answered and explained. When I created a post where I told about continuity problems, it was renamed to represent the problem like MY PERSONAL while it's objective and should be fixed. Also, I was softly warned for "demanding". I understand that it was kind of rough, but how else can I, can other people attract ZOS' attention to continuity and timeline problems, immersion problems? Can we somehow bring those people who are in charge for these aspects of the game to answer to us directly here, on this forum? It is against rules to "make a big fuzz" here, but what else should be done if a "big fuzz" seems to be the only way to attract attention and get the answers and changes we deserve?

barney2525

Crazyprophet wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

I agree with the OP.

But not being able to use wayshrines until you lost your soul would be a bit annoying.

If there is a link between losing your soul and the ability to use wayshrines in the story somewhere I have missed it on my many, many playthroughs.

I doubt simply ignoring this inconsistency would cause any extra confusion especially relative to the current nightmare of prologue/DLC/Chapter quest givers and phased NPC's that actively ruin immersion or spoil storyline.

Re the wayshries: it's more obscure lore from a book if I recall. Basically there's a theory that all the wayshrines, which are shrines to the divines in one form or another, are connected on some sort of spiritual level that people could in theory access to form a vast teleportation network.... But only if that person was to unbind their soul from Nirn. Which we sorta did.

So, if we complete the main quest and get our soul back we can no longer use wayshrines. No going back to Coldharbor, and no DLC like clockwork city or Summerset... even if you bought them.

I'm thinking whoever wrote that lore book needed medical attention.

BejaProphet

barney2525 wrote: »

Soooo.... the point of this is a lot of players are upset because .... we are NOT being told what we have to do, and when we have to do it ..... correct? We have freedom of choice and that's ... bad. ... ?

I might agree, IF the volumes of information that exist about ESO and being a beginner did not exist. Anyone who starts in on a brand new game without doing some research on it, just so they have an idea of what they are doing at the start.... should not complain if they get confused.

IMHO

That’s a straw man of my original post. My post is plainly not complaining about freedom of choice. Point 1 and 3 are about game inconsistency. Point 2 is about the horrific way every option is in our face at once.