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Goregrinder wrote: »The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
No, just get rid of it. The point of LAs is to apply weapon effects, the point of heavy attacks is to regen resources. The value of a skill should not be dictated whether or not you can bug it out. Add a GCD to LA and add block to the CD list. Rebalance the game back to sane levels.
While I believe ZOS should constantly keep the power creep stats create over time in an MMORPG, I'm not a fan of lowering the skill ceiling on any level. Lowering how much damage a player does is fine, but taking away the ability to do that damage out of the hands of the player is always bad news bears. There should be a disparity between player skill, even at a high level. There will always be players who have mastered something so well they do it better than everyone else around them. That's just how every MMORPG has been (which is what ESO is), and how everything is in RL.
LA weaving is just one of the many skills a player can choose to master, or choose to ignore. If you choose to forgo performing it, that's your choice....play the game how you want. But your performance and success should prominently reflect that.
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Goregrinder wrote: »The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
No, just get rid of it. The point of LAs is to apply weapon effects, the point of heavy attacks is to regen resources. The value of a skill should not be dictated whether or not you can bug it out. Add a GCD to LA and add block to the CD list. Rebalance the game back to sane levels.
While I believe ZOS should constantly keep the power creep stats create over time in an MMORPG, I'm not a fan of lowering the skill ceiling on any level. Lowering how much damage a player does is fine, but taking away the ability to do that damage out of the hands of the player is always bad news bears. There should be a disparity between player skill, even at a high level. There will always be players who have mastered something so well they do it better than everyone else around them. That's just how every MMORPG has been (which is what ESO is), and how everything is in RL.
LA weaving is just one of the many skills a player can choose to master, or choose to ignore. If you choose to forgo performing it, that's your choice....play the game how you want. But your performance and success should prominently reflect that.
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You do realise that You can do more then enough DPS to complete every vet content in the game without perfect light attack weaving or without light attack weaving at all ?
Goregrinder wrote: »The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
No, just get rid of it. The point of LAs is to apply weapon effects, the point of heavy attacks is to regen resources. The value of a skill should not be dictated whether or not you can bug it out. Add a GCD to LA and add block to the CD list. Rebalance the game back to sane levels.
While I believe ZOS should constantly keep the power creep stats create over time in an MMORPG, I'm not a fan of lowering the skill ceiling on any level. Lowering how much damage a player does is fine, but taking away the ability to do that damage out of the hands of the player is always bad news bears. There should be a disparity between player skill, even at a high level. There will always be players who have mastered something so well they do it better than everyone else around them. That's just how every MMORPG has been (which is what ESO is), and how everything is in RL.
LA weaving is just one of the many skills a player can choose to master, or choose to ignore. If you choose to forgo performing it, that's your choice....play the game how you want. But your performance and success should prominently reflect that.
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You do realise that You can do more then enough DPS to complete every vet content in the game without perfect light attack weaving or without light attack weaving at all ?
Sure you can.
You just won't get a group that will take you without doing it unless you get carried by a guild group. A few extreme exceptions don't invalidate my point because they require a certain class/gear combo.
[snip]
Goregrinder wrote: »The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
No, just get rid of it. The point of LAs is to apply weapon effects, the point of heavy attacks is to regen resources. The value of a skill should not be dictated whether or not you can bug it out. Add a GCD to LA and add block to the CD list. Rebalance the game back to sane levels.
While I believe ZOS should constantly keep the power creep stats create over time in an MMORPG, I'm not a fan of lowering the skill ceiling on any level. Lowering how much damage a player does is fine, but taking away the ability to do that damage out of the hands of the player is always bad news bears. There should be a disparity between player skill, even at a high level. There will always be players who have mastered something so well they do it better than everyone else around them. That's just how every MMORPG has been (which is what ESO is), and how everything is in RL.
LA weaving is just one of the many skills a player can choose to master, or choose to ignore. If you choose to forgo performing it, that's your choice....play the game how you want. But your performance and success should prominently reflect that.
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You do realise that You can do more then enough DPS to complete every vet content in the game without perfect light attack weaving or without light attack weaving at all ?
Sure you can.
You just won't get a group that will take you without doing it unless you get carried by a guild group. A few extreme exceptions don't invalidate my point because they require a certain class/gear combo.
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Goregrinder wrote: »The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
No, just get rid of it. The point of LAs is to apply weapon effects, the point of heavy attacks is to regen resources. The value of a skill should not be dictated whether or not you can bug it out. Add a GCD to LA and add block to the CD list. Rebalance the game back to sane levels.
While I believe ZOS should constantly keep the power creep stats create over time in an MMORPG, I'm not a fan of lowering the skill ceiling on any level. Lowering how much damage a player does is fine, but taking away the ability to do that damage out of the hands of the player is always bad news bears. There should be a disparity between player skill, even at a high level. There will always be players who have mastered something so well they do it better than everyone else around them. That's just how every MMORPG has been (which is what ESO is), and how everything is in RL.
LA weaving is just one of the many skills a player can choose to master, or choose to ignore. If you choose to forgo performing it, that's your choice....play the game how you want. But your performance and success should prominently reflect that.
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You do realise that You can do more then enough DPS to complete every vet content in the game without perfect light attack weaving or without light attack weaving at all ?
Sure you can.
You just won't get a group that will take you without doing it unless you get carried by a guild group. A few extreme exceptions don't invalidate my point because they require a certain class/gear combo.
Something which a newbie will have no concept of.
You can get that DPS on any class with easy rotation without weaving. As for group You can just make one with other people with simillar goals. Only small percentage of people in the game pulls top numbers yet vet content is cleared pretty often. You make situation to look more tragic then it really is. Most of the time when people fail to complete something it's not because their DPS was too lowdue to inability to weave perfectly but because they were simply dying to mechanics. And staying in red , not blocking or dodging on time etc have nothing to do with DPS people are pulling out.
Maybe if a newbie would spend more time figuring stuff out instead of brainlesly watching top parses on YT he would've better concept of what can be good for him. Also why do You bring newbies as an argument in conversation about clearing veteran content? Do You expect for every player to be able to finish veteran content right away?
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The whole ani-cancelling system is garbage. Whether it be by light attacks, blocking or barswapping. A group of people doing it properly looks like a bunch of Parkinsons patients trying to breakdance in addition to being EXHAUSTING. It's why I'll NEVER do trials or Cyrodiil, I simply can't be bothered doing it for longer than a dungeon run, and even that's pushing it.
It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's not interesting and it completely breaks the game on a fundamental level simply because half the skills in the game are not worth using because you can't abuse a bug!
It's obviously not intended, but it's a problem with the engine and they simply cannot fix it, so they call it a "feature". It's an embarrassment.
Been wondering lately if LA doing the damage only at end of animation would improve the situation.
Leave ani cancel in to be able to react fast. But if you do cancel LA. No dmg. Lower ceiling.
LA would have to be buffed as it would now compete with skills for cast time. Which would help the floor. Well.. the LA spamming side of the floor at least.
A real raise floor, lower ceiling solution. That should be much easier to implement in engine than trying to remove animation canceling alltogether. And would still make it possible to react to events fast. especially in pvp.
So making the timing for light attack+skill harder and more prone to lag will lower the ceiling? Please think about it for a moment... It will lower floor while ceiling stays the same...
if interrupted la does not do damage... la weaving as we know it is dead... so the ceiling looses pretty much all the la damage they can squeeze out of interrupted la weaving....
And la spammers lose all their damage, only those who perfectly execute elemental weapon with a light attack get any damage out of it, everything becomes more laggy because now server will request additional checkbox of if animation even happened from client side (which will never happen on weaker computers with worse net), and the laggier the instance the less damage everyone do.
Your "idea" is literally -get rid of light attack weaving for everyone that doesn't live on the servers and has a dedicated gaming computer, and add lag to everyone-
Additionally, the ceiling will "lose" as much damage from it as the floor, since the endgame floor does try to light attack weave.
You could theoretically put light attacks on the same GCD as skills, but this is entirely different from what you said...
Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
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As for put it on gcd versus mine. Going LA on gcd that has one important drawback. you need an emergency shield, heal, cc break. You are *** until gcd is done. With LA only firing on end of animation. You still can react as fast to a situtation as right now. You just loose the LA damage. Combat really feeling and actually being more dynamic and fast reactive is the really good thing about animation canceling that should not be lost imo.
Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
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Because the lag is that bad. The EU servers are horrid. As an example, here is the screenshot I used to prove a guy that skills can be shot every second without light attacks. In any combat, the server can delay your casts anywhere between 0.05 sec to 0.3 sec, the difference is huge, and with your idea, it means light attacks not going off for those who are further from the server half the time. That issue is real, and starting to call my arguments "bad faith" and "bogus" is ridiculous, as proven in the screenshot.
not a fan of repeating myself. have a quote.Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
[snip]
Because the lag is that bad. The EU servers are horrid. As an example, here is the screenshot I used to prove a guy that skills can be shot every second without light attacks. In any combat, the server can delay your casts anywhere between 0.05 sec to 0.3 sec, the difference is huge, and with your idea, it means light attacks not going off for those who are further from the server half the time. That issue is real, and starting to call my arguments "bad faith" and "bogus" is ridiculous, as proven in the screenshot.
yes lag is bad. ping is bad for some worse for others.
All very clear and obvious and well known.
But please explain to me why you think all that affects my solution any worse than existing animation cancel solution.
making the timing for light attack + skill harder and more prone to lag
Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
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What? So you can't put light attack on skill GCD because then you can't react to things? It makes no sense, you can still react exactly the same, like you do with the current skills, light attack will just be like any other spammable. You can react well after casting force pulse now can't you? Honestly I don't know how can you call my argument bogus and then say that.
not a fan of repeating myself. have a quote.Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
[snip]
Because the lag is that bad. The EU servers are horrid. As an example, here is the screenshot I used to prove a guy that skills can be shot every second without light attacks. In any combat, the server can delay your casts anywhere between 0.05 sec to 0.3 sec, the difference is huge, and with your idea, it means light attacks not going off for those who are further from the server half the time. That issue is real, and starting to call my arguments "bad faith" and "bogus" is ridiculous, as proven in the screenshot.
yes lag is bad. ping is bad for some worse for others.
All very clear and obvious and well known.
But please explain to me why you think all that affects my solution any worse than existing animation cancel solution.making the timing for light attack + skill harder and more prone to lag
Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
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What? So you can't put light attack on skill GCD because then you can't react to things? It makes no sense, you can still react exactly the same, like you do with the current skills, light attack will just be like any other spammable. You can react well after casting force pulse now can't you? Honestly I don't know how can you call my argument bogus and then say that.
situation: mouse just pressed for la. saw sth i need to react to. but just missed chance to keep my finger from pressing mouse button
la not on gcd: shield skill can be cast way before gcd duration.
la on gcd: shield skill can onky be cast at end of gcd.
explain the why it is more affected by lag/ping exactly.
from alcast la guide:
You might soon notice that it doesn’t always work. This is due to your latency. Your connection to the server takes a while and this determines on how fast you will actually be able to make a Light Attack count
lag/ping affects current system already. in case you didnt know.
more prone to lag
which means, since the timing to get the light attacks work is more precise, and has a smaller window, it is making the timing for light attack + skill hardermaking the timing for light attack + skill harder
In any combat, the server can delay your casts anywhere between 0.05 sec to 0.3 sec, the difference is huge, and with your idea, it means light attacks not going off for those who are further from the server half the time.
Really don't understand why you are raging about bad computers and lag.
[snip]
What? So you can't put light attack on skill GCD because then you can't react to things? It makes no sense, you can still react exactly the same, like you do with the current skills, light attack will just be like any other spammable. You can react well after casting force pulse now can't you? Honestly I don't know how can you call my argument bogus and then say that.
situation: mouse just pressed for la. saw sth i need to react to. but just missed chance to keep my finger from pressing mouse button
la not on gcd: shield skill can be cast way before gcd duration.
la on gcd: shield skill can onky be cast at end of gcd.
situation: mouse just clicked on force pulse (yes, my spammable has dedicated mouse button)
skill not on gcd: ?!?!
skill on gcd: shield skill can only be cast on the next gcd.
my point is, if light attack is on the same gcd as skills, you need to stop thinking about light attacks as non skills. it is as any other skill now. if you used it, it is literally as if you used force pulse. your complaint is like complaining that you can't use shield right after using force pulse.[
please read again the information and arguments i already provided for more insight.
Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
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LA weaving is obviously a skill as clearly evidenced by the large majority of the player base (my estimate over 90%) don't know how to do it properly. Like any other skill, the more you practice it the better you get at it. I include myself in that group because I can't get past the 65K DPS threshold due to poor LA weaving on my backbar.
Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
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LA weaving is obviously a skill as clearly evidenced by the large majority of the player base (my estimate over 90%) don't know how to do it properly. Like any other skill, the more you practice it the better you get at it. I include myself in that group because I can't get past the 65K DPS threshold due to poor LA weaving on my backbar.
If You can't get past 65k (assuming we're talking about Iron Atro) then poor light attack weaving on backbar definietly is not main reason for that.
Goregrinder wrote: »Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
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LA weaving is obviously a skill as clearly evidenced by the large majority of the player base (my estimate over 90%) don't know how to do it properly. Like any other skill, the more you practice it the better you get at it. I include myself in that group because I can't get past the 65K DPS threshold due to poor LA weaving on my backbar.
If You can't get past 65k (assuming we're talking about Iron Atro) then poor light attack weaving on backbar definietly is not main reason for that.
Yeah probably not the main reason, for sure. There is probably something else that is a bigger slice of the "Not hitting high enough DPS" pie. But subpar LA weaving is definitely one of those pieces, even if it's a smaller slice.
Goregrinder wrote: »Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
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LA weaving is obviously a skill as clearly evidenced by the large majority of the player base (my estimate over 90%) don't know how to do it properly. Like any other skill, the more you practice it the better you get at it. I include myself in that group because I can't get past the 65K DPS threshold due to poor LA weaving on my backbar.
If You can't get past 65k (assuming we're talking about Iron Atro) then poor light attack weaving on backbar definietly is not main reason for that.
Yeah probably not the main reason, for sure. There is probably something else that is a bigger slice of the "Not hitting high enough DPS" pie. But subpar LA weaving is definitely one of those pieces, even if it's a smaller slice.
I would aim at rotation and ability/sec ratio. With those 2 being at decent level You can have very poor light attack weaving and still go past 80k easily.
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LOL
I've never been kicked from a group, not once.
Just because I think the system is completely idiotic doesn't mean I don't know how to do it, or refuse to. Nor do I complain about it while in a group or in guild chat. There's a time and a place for it.
The place for it is here, on the forum. That's what it's for, to voice opinions and concerns.
I have seen it happen though, many times. "lol y aren't u weving?!?" followed by "Umm, what's that mean?" followed by "Player X has been kicked"
Yeah, my DPS was about half of everyone else's. I just started the game.
Looks like weaving is the way to go.
Doesn't seem very intuitive though, you're doing two actions in the time frame of one action. I guess you can do three actions if you throw in an interrupt.
.