Hello, this is my feedback regarding the Ancestral Akaviri Style Master Achievement, its tooltip, why it's unrewarding the way it is & how it can be improved. So this will not only be a feedback for all the topics regarding the achievement - but also a suggestion for antiquities of this type. The other feedback threads didn't seem as appropriate as this one.

A bit of context beforehand:
I'm a completionist and I've explored the drop rate of Ancestral Reach motif extensively. Took it upon myself to complete all codex entries, and I managed to get that on the 13th December last year. Here's a short gif of it currently:


I lost count how many treasure maps I gathered and bought, but got a rough an estimate of the treasure map per style page lead and profit margins that I'm able to attain when buying maps. I then I transposed this info/experience to the PTS to analyze the drop rate for the new one - Ancestral Akaviri.



So a couple things:
METHOD- it's exactly the same. Leads have a chance to drop from named Treasure Maps from that zone only. This will probably not include the collector's edition maps, as those tend to have a way different (and inferior) loot table than the rest. So you will have 6 maps in total to gamble around the RNG:


DROP RATE- at first glance yes, also exactly the same as I experienced on live with the Ancestral Reach motif. Despite the treasure map locations & clues not being available at the time of my testing, I was able to find the locations of 2 treasure maps and went from there, here's an example of a drop:


So- in conclusion- there's no mechanic change for this achievement and, in my opinion, we are taking a dangerous step forward in an unstable floor - a wrongful tooltip and heavy RNG-based treasure map hunting, which feels really unrewarding, somewhat an impossible goal to achieve. Missing out on those codex entries is a pity!

A couple of other threads have pointed this out:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570588/ancestral-akaviri-motif-how-do-we-get-the-lead
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7139211
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7225237


So, as objective as I can be, to answer the proper feedback points:

Was the criteria for completing the new achievements clear?

No. The leads are not found when casually digging for antiquities- Leads can be found when digging for treasure maps, which is a completely different thing.

Did all achievements work as expected?

Yes. The game will register properly when you learn the style pages related to this achievement.

What did you think of the associated rewards for the achievements?

High grind for treasure maps in what should be an overland motif feels unrewarding, places the fun antiquity mechanic as something irrelevant (Why go through the pain of buying maps and losing gold rather than just buying the motifs directly?).

Do you have any other general feedback?

Yes, I would like to present some suggestions of how we can improve this.
One way would be to match the Leads drop to what the achievement tooltip says- make them drop from digging up antiquities in Blackwood, either from sellable trinkets, tapestry pieces, furnishings, having this as a bonus when digging up other stuff makes perfect sense!
Other way this could be improved is just by granting these Leads a chance to drop from overland chests - but with a higher chance from treasure map chests - this would still be incorrect if we follow the achievement tooltip but it would cause minimal change from in-game mechanics already in place and the economy. Everyone can get a route to farm overland chests, but not everyone can gamble away gold to see if they drop a lead from the treasure map they just bought.
Both of these solutions would, in my opinion, alleviate the farm of these motifs. Having them retroactively apply to Ancestral Nord, Orc, High Elf and Reach styles would be amazing. As they all have a quite similar tooltip - suggesting the method to get the leads is by digging up antiquities, which is incorrect.

That's pretty much all I have to say about this particular achievement and its intricacies, I feel like we're missing out and could do better. Thank you for your time!

Fontecc wrote: »

Yes, I would like to present some suggestions of how we can improve this.
One way would be to match the Leads drop to what the achievement tooltip says- make them drop from digging up antiquities in Blackwood, either from sellable trinkets, tapestry pieces, furnishings, having this as a bonus when digging up other stuff makes perfect sense!
Other way this could be improved is just by granting these Leads a chance to drop from overland chests - but with a higher chance from treasure map chests - this would still be incorrect if we follow the achievement tooltip but it would cause minimal change from in-game mechanics already in place and the economy. Everyone can get a route to farm overland chests, but not everyone can gamble away gold to see if they drop a lead from the treasure map they just bought.
Both of these solutions would, in my opinion, alleviate the farm of these motifs. Having them retroactively apply to Ancestral Nord, Orc, High Elf and Reach styles would be amazing. As they all have a quite similar tooltip - suggesting the method to get the leads is by digging up antiquities, which is incorrect.

I feel like this would go a long way to helping out with these, and future, Ancestral motifs.

When Greymoor dropped, we got the three Ancestral motifs, one per alliance, to drop fairly consistently - each of the 14 pages dropped in a specific zone, so if we were only missing one page we knew which zone's maps to go for. Having 13/14 pages of a motif meant that you were only farming guild traders for maps from one zone, and even then there was a 1/2 chance that when a lead dropped, it would be the one you were missing. We also had, for each style, 5 zones with 6 maps plus 4 in the starter zones = 34 possible maps that could drop the leads.

When Markarth brought out the Ancestral Reach, all 14 could drop from the same ones, so when you were at 13/14 pages you only had a 1/14 chance of getting the last one you needed. There were also only 6 maps total in WSkyrim plus two in the Reach. That means there's a ridiculously smaller chance that you would come across the maps for this style, and as such the prices on guild traders (for a chance to get the lead) are astronomical.

I also have noticed my RNG is way worse for leads from Skyrim maps than it ever was for the basegame zones. I've dug about 40-50 of the Greymoor DLC maps, and I got a lead in one. Meanwhile, the basegames are seeming to drop their leads at a reasonable rate. Sure, it could just be bad luck, but it's crossed the line into infuriating.

If Ancestral Akaviri is going the same way as Ancestral Reach, it's going to be another one of those obscene luck-based missions. Especially if the next Ancestral motif would come with the Q4 DLC, so that means that you'd have 28 motif page leads competing for the same 8 Gates of Oblivion chests.

The tooltips, and indeed the patch noted from the Markarth PTS round, did imply that the leads for the Ancestral Reach motif could be found as bonus loot, not only from treasure map chests. If that were done, that would make the grind that much better (and would encourage people to start digging for Antiquities in that zone, considering the current system is a great way to get people to leave in frustration). I was also thinking that having the leads drop from zone chests at the same rate they currently are would help, as a player is much more likely to see a chest in Markarth than happen upon a Reach treasure map. Whether the same is needed for the original three Ancestral motifs, since they have a much larger amount of places to drop from in the first place, is up for debate, but any DLC Ancestral motifs that don't have such a large source spread need more opportunities for player to get it.