[ZeniMax] Players hindering other players from content.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2014

Two easy fixes for this...
'
Once you are infected, you are bound against injuring your own bloodline...(Once you decide to become one of them, eliminating them is no longer an option at that point.)(This can be account wide to prevent one from spreading/selling while the other camps and prevents - with a pop-up explaining this tradeoff should you wish to proceed)

Second, to assist those that are "RPing to prevent the spread of the disease" (Although apparently infected themselves or they would not be able to try to sell the bite...), provide a quest where healers are able to obtain a spell to 'Cure' the affliction...and once the affliction is cured, it cannot be regained...

These two things eliminate the ability/benefit of killing infectious NPC's, plus essentially forces those that wish to remain infected to be a bit more wary of their surroundings (as they would be while possessing such a gift/curse)...making them even less likely to return to the scene of the crime, so to speak...

I recall in the standalone's, the benefits of the 'gift.' I also recall being hunted and shunned for possessing the same.

Vampirism and Lycanthropy should both be something to be revelled at and feared...whether defending against, or being a part of the bloodline...

There should be equal fear of getting infected as there should be fear of getting 'cured...'

Just my take...

aRealClassAct · April 2014

Phyrdrin wrote: »

I can sympathize with your argument in some ways, but you have to realize that not everyone is like you. What is considered "griefing" isn't simple RP. It's people that do this on purpose or hide behind a lame excuse. There are tons of mobs out there for you to "slay" in your epic quest of rooting out the undead. Instead of supporting the griefers and exploiters, consider killing those.

In other news - people are standing up against this. I know for a fact that GM's are working on a resolution of this while the community itself has individuals who counter these exploiters by creating guilds where bites are offered on a waiting list basis at no cost. It will take some effort to find these guilds, as they are not advertised for good reason, but once you find these people you will see that it was well worth the wait to encounter the rare "good samaritans".

But those mobs don't "stem the flow" of active vampires/WWs. I see where it can be frustrating for some people and I sympathize with them, but at the same time it's how the mechanic was designed and you can bet Zenimax knew fully well this is how it would play out. Now that there is an outcry of enough people I'm sure they will look into redesigning the mechanics, and I hope they do a good job in the redesign that makes it somehow more attainable, but not so attainable that everyone and their mother can do it whenever they want. I think the best thing they can do is keep the system the same but make the spawns truly random.

If the mobs can literally spawn anywhere in the zone with no real order and maybe even have a variation of patrol routes they can take it would at least make the griefers actually do some looking (as well as the people who want a bite or the ones who are hunters). I think it would be awesome if there were patrolling groups of ww/vamp spawns that waylaid merchant caravans and attacked any npc/mob that was in their path. Maybe even skin the mobs/npcs that were killed by werewolves with the "devoured" model so you can come across them and know there is a WW/Vamp on the prowl! Perhaps this in combination with some adjustment to the phasing would help?

WastedJoker · April 2014

I don't see what the fuss is because I got Vampirism in 30 mins of hanging out around the Waypoint outside of Dune in Reapers March. There weren't any people deliberately killing NPC's and in fact the people there fostered an attitude of "Don't kill it, just aggro it" so everyone could get a turn at being attacked.

If people are killing it deliberately, just move on to a different spawn. There's no economy if nobody pays.

Vaaco · April 2014

Lets put things into perspective guys.

If you support the camping of these spawns for any reason then you are no doubt;

a. Engaging in it yourselves either to grief other players or to make money from their inability to contract the disease by any other way than paying ridiculous amounts of gold.

or
b. Using it as a way to inflate the games economy to promote the purchase of gold from dedicated third party websites and which you most probably work for!

knaveofengland · April 2014

time for the dragons , well no harm in trying to get some dragons

aRealClassAct · April 2014

TIL that I work for a gold selling company. Who knew?

Vaaco · April 2014

Hyperventilate wrote: »

Elunarie wrote: »

I also propose that a new internet meme be created: controller. They're a CON, a TROLL, and a controller all in one.

Like... that's how memes work.

--

On topic: I am disinterested in becoming a vampire/werewolf so I suppose I am neutral on the topic, and I do understand the frustration some people have while wanting to become one or the other. I disagree that this is griefing, however. There really isn't anyone "stopping you" (full on stopping) from becoming a vampire -- Like the article someone listed above, a couple players found a werewolf spawn in a river & getting the disease was invigorating, like they had found a secret treasure or a "Rare achievement" (As they put it.) The desire to become one or the other will most definitely die down, and rather quickly at that. I see guilds devoted to giving free bites & people offering free bites in /z chat.

I understand the frustration of "I want it NOW and I want it for FREE because...content!" but by someone killing a naturally hostile non-vital enemy... not griefing.

Try logging on at what you think is before midnight but aren't quite sure because there's no official in game clock, for, at the last count 6 days real time and watching hordes of Vampire infected players kill the spawns at all of the know locations. They are preventing players getting for themselves what they want you to pay them for.

Cassandre · April 2014

Bah. Foes are foes. Let's kill 'em all. Even rabbit ( well about that, please ZOS, allow us to kill cats !!! ). If it wasn't intended to be killed, it wouldn't be possible to ( well, like cats ).

It's exactly the same thing that those MMO having big rare spawning named monsters, and a mechanic allowing only the first who hit to loot on it : you cannot cry about that, you were just unable to do it.

NB : i absolutely don't care about being a jacob or edward follower, and i really don't care about being or not being able to have a bite. BUT, those spawning area's chans are kinda epic when someone QQ ( again ) about his precious being killed.

aRealClassAct · April 2014

Sooo yeah.... lets get some TRULY random spawns and patrol paths combined with smarter phasing. Stick all those griefers in their own instance of the zone with it's own vampires/wws unless they are grouped, in which case the big group of them can all kill the one spawn that their instance has and they will think that they are stopping others.

In reality, Mr. By myself quester will be able to hunt down his own vamp/ww for a bite in his instanced zone. You can still keep it kind of rare by giving the mobs a TRULY random spawn location, a patrol path, and maybe a 15 minute window that they roam around murdering NPCs and other mobs before disappearing!

EDIT: I'm not sure how much of a toll phasing and instancing takes on the servers, but my idea is made assuming that it is negligible

gunplummer · April 2014

So for those of you who think this type of griefing is ok what if an alliance took over all but one keep and camped outside and killed every player that left the keep and starting area. You would never be able to PvP or complete any cyrodiil quest, gather shards, or harvest. If that alliance said "but we are only role playing by stopping the alliance from advancing to add to the realism". Would this be fair since it has no effect on you reaching vr12 or completing the main story and is considered a game mechanic? Of course not.

I have no problem with rp unless it interferes with my playing. If you want to kill WW/vamps or mud crabs why do they have to do it in the main spawn areas. Go someplace else. An earlier post said WW were found in a river area go there and "hunt your prey" or whatever back story you created. Most players just want their bite and will move on, the spawn times are already limited. The chat is already over flowing with gold, trade, and troll spam (yes, I'm talking about the morality police in reaper's march), this grief killing nonsense is now adding to the already giant cluster @#$% that is zone chat.

Sure, ZOS may increase spawns and locations, but until then please stop being a nuisance to others. Players can deal with the frustration of a tough boss, but there is no skill tree for dealing with griefers. We can ignore your flames, just not your actions.

Cassandre · April 2014

So, now, you're telling us that doing some PvP in cyrodiil, and kicking some player's ass, is bad? This is war, don't be sad.

SaibotLiu · April 2014

So its griefing now to kill NPC's? Nice to see how the already overused phrase has evolved in the new "Twilight" generation.

So I guess the guy in front of me at the gas station who buys the last chili cheese meat pie that I wanted is griefing me too. Boohoohoo, woe is me cant handle life.

Two things for sure, I have no interest in the vampire/werewolf mechanic. And number two, I'll be killing all the fiends whenever I see them for the same reason I kill everything else, for the exp and the loot. You cant judge intentions of players, stop trying.

gunplummer · April 2014

If they stood outside your front door and kick your ass every time you walked outside you would be whining like everyone else. People would start complaining about the spawn zones being to close or about camping spawn zones or why did they spawn me there and not over there instead. Every PvP game whether its PC or console gets the same complaints.

SaibotLiu · April 2014

gunplummer wrote: »

If they stood outside your front door and kick your ass every time you walked outside you would be whining like everyone else. People would start complaining about the spawn zones being to close or about camping spawn zones or why did they spawn me there and not over there instead. Every PvP game whether its PC or console gets the same complaints.

Any PVPer worth their salt wouldnt whine about that, they'd grow a pair and get better at the game, take them down, and camp them, and they'd keep clawing until they found a way to do it. Or they'd just leave and come back when the odds are more even. No problem either way.

Sometimes you have to play by the mechanics the way they are, even if they're not to your liking. Asking the devs to change the game should really only apply to overt bugs. If you can not adapt to the gameplay or make it work for you, thats your problem, not the devs.

gunplummer · April 2014

First nobody is telling you to "stop killing NPCs" and second if you camp a spawn kill the NPC and then spam chat selling WW/vamp bites, or saying we will only allow WW/vamps with payment and permission you don't have to be a rocket scientist to tell a players intention.

Cassandre · April 2014

You made my day. Every game gets the same complaints, but not every players are ready to whine like that. Only a noisy minority. You're doing a poor comparison, with less value than your first problem... Because, seriously, who really cares about the PvP QQers? It's just some fresh meat. And, if a could see your point about vampire & WW hunters ( but i prefer to read the perma whining chan in reaper's march

), crying about a dominant alliance pogromin' the weakest one, it's like trying to do something against the sunrise... Pointless.

@SaibotLiu i loved ur Gas station griefer !

gunplummer · April 2014

SaibotLiu wrote: »

So I guess the guy in front of me at the gas station who buys the last chili cheese meat pie that I wanted is griefing me too. Boohoohoo, woe is me cant handle life.

So if the clerk comes over and makes one more chili cheese meat pie and the guy takes that one too will you complain to the clerk for not having the insight to make more than one chili cheese meat pie or complain to the guy who butt in front of you and took the second too?

And now I'm hungry...

Wintermist · April 2014

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi, all. If you feel like a player is violating our Terms of Service, we invite you to file a report in-game. Our team will certainly look into the report, and determine if it is indeed a violation.

And what is the exact purpose of this forum then?

Randazzo · April 2014

"gunplummer wrote: »

gas station .... chili cheese meat pie

That..

..is possibly the most horrifying idea I've ever read/seen/heard and should end the thread.

gunplummer · April 2014

At least we didn't use sushi

Ayradyss · April 2014

I still think the simplest/easiest to implement solution is to simply make it so that player vampires/werewolves cannot infect others. No bites, no bite selling, no reason to block others from the spawns. And it serves you people who want to 'keep it rare' and make sure it 'isn't too easy' to get as well.

Now that's justice, IMO.

Ethromelb14_ESO · April 2014

@Ayradyss
While you may be right that it can help regulate the vampire player population... I don't agree that the ability to pass the disease should be removed. It's a disease after all. Plus passing the disease adds to the feeling of being a vampire. The management of playing as vampire is all that need be tweaked so that not so many people find it easy to play as one.

Dunhilda · April 2014

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

LarZen wrote: »

If a player is in some way hindering other players from progressing or accessing content that should be for everyone in the game. Is that a violation of your terms?

One of these situations are players camping and killing NPC's so that others cant become a Vampire.

And if this is a violation. Are you going to do anything about it?

OMG the players in Cyrodiil are hindering me from accessing the emperor content! ZOS DO SOMETHING!

Weak comeback, anyone is able to become Emperor with hard work ( and a lot of time), to become a vamp we need a killable mob that being killed to prevent others from doing so by the intended design, selling the the bite wasn't intended and or selling the mobs wasn't intended.

Other wise it would be done so that a bite and money changes hand at the same time and not be a trust trade (Were scamming can happen)

DewiMorgan · April 2014

The obvious thing to do is to bite anyone who asks in zone, for free. Cut out the profit from them, and they'll stop doing it.
The fact that this is NOT being done, suggests that the only people complaining are the unbitten, and once bitten, they want part of the profits, too.

eventHandler · April 2014

The mobs are not hard to find in the Rift on the NA server. I get attacked by them routinely while riding around. The people who seem to be having difficulty are the ones coming to the zone at too low a level and trying to sneak around past all the other mobs; they can't get to the spawns in time. The other issue is that people trust what they hear on zone, and if people say they spot them and you rush there it will either a) they are already dead from other people rushing there or b) it was misinformation. During one game night alone I was attacked by eight werewolves over three encounters while riding around the Rift doing my own thing.

I have no sympathy for people below level 40 not being able to get bit, because it should be difficult if you want to try to take on the challenge of doing content far above your level.

I hate bite sellers as much as gold sellers, but people trying to buy bites are equally annoying. If you can't find them yourself, why not make friends and get them to bite you or help find them together?

The people I see camping spots are mostly below level 20, and trying ride the coat tails of a couple people on level. I never stop at those spots, but I have no trouble finding spawns out on my own. I was riding just off the road at one point and four werewolves came running at me out of no where one night. I was thrown into a pair of sabre cats shortly into the fight make to make it more interesting. Then a guy shows up and starts cheering on the wolves to kill me and watching, and telling everyone on zone chat that the werewolves are owning some fighters guild guy (because I used a crossbow attack to defend myself).

I beat them, just barely, and the way the people on the other side of this argument act certainly makes me want to keep killing more. There are people who have reported me for killing them. It is sickening. I am going to keep killing them for two reason: because I roleplay, which I know is a crazy concept for an mmoRPG, and because the people on the other side are selfish children out for instant gratification with no ability to think from any perspective outside their own. It ruins my enjoyment of the game just as much if you keep me from playing it the way I want to by killing tainted beasts of Hircine and cursed spawn of Molag Bal.

Last game night I was attacked by a pair of bloodfiends out of no where while walking out of a crafting cave. There was no one to be seen, and I took my time killing them to see if anyone showed up. I'm not going to run away though or exploit the game by keeping them alive for 10 minutes like people do. That's awful roleplay and awful abuse of the game mechanics. And entirely unnecessary.

Maybe at one point it was hard to get bit, and maybe there were large guilds camping them all to keep other people out, but that is not how it is in game on the NA server in the Rift right now. Now its a bunch of people level 10-20 asking repeatedly "are vamps out?" "are ww's out?" "where dem ww's?"....

eventHandler · April 2014

Personally I think anyone who wants to be a ww or vampire should be able to just do a quest to do it. There isn't any reason to force you to encounter a specific spawn. Or just make every bloodfiend/vampire and werewolf in the game have a chance to infect (they are everywhere in some places at all hours on all days, but those ones can't infect). I think everyone should be what they want; but I'm still going to kill anything that deserves it crossing my path, even if the limited biter system is lame. I play to the lore, not the mechanics.

eventHandler · April 2014

Dunhilda wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

LarZen wrote: »

If a player is in some way hindering other players from progressing or accessing content that should be for everyone in the game. Is that a violation of your terms?

One of these situations are players camping and killing NPC's so that others cant become a Vampire.

And if this is a violation. Are you going to do anything about it?

OMG the players in Cyrodiil are hindering me from accessing the emperor content! ZOS DO SOMETHING!

Weak comeback, anyone is able to become Emperor with hard work ( and a lot of time), to become a vamp we need a killable mob that being killed to prevent others from doing so by the intended design, selling the the bite wasn't intended and or selling the mobs wasn't intended.

Other wise it would be done so that a bite and money changes hand at the same time and not be a trust trade (Were scamming can happen)

A fair analogy would be level 10 people going out to Cyrodiil and complaining after 15 minutes that they can't find the guy to talk to in order to be made Emperor. That's whats going on with the bites. If you worked at it, which includes leveling to 38-40 first, then you have a much better shot than you do making Emperor. I mean, to the extreme.

fiachsidhe · April 2014

SaibotLiu wrote: »

So its griefing now to kill NPC's? Nice to see how the already overused phrase has evolved in the new "Twilight" generation.

So I guess the guy in front of me at the gas station who buys the last chili cheese meat pie that I wanted is griefing me too. Boohoohoo, woe is me cant handle life.

Two things for sure, I have no interest in the vampire/werewolf mechanic. And number two, I'll be killing all the fiends whenever I see them for the same reason I kill everything else, for the exp and the loot. You cant judge intentions of players, stop trying.

As overused as ripping on Twilight? Yeah way to hit that series at the height of its popularity. I bet you write the most scathing Youtube comments. Got anything about the Jonas Brothers?

No you'd guess wrong. You want to know why your pathetic strawman argument, is a weak logical fallacy?

Because the person who bought that hot dog bought it because they were hungry. You'd have to be, to buy a hot dog at a gas station. They didn't see you waiting to buy it, run in, grab the dog, and purchase it just so you can't.

There is a huge difference between someone simply eating the last of something, and someone going well out of their way to throw the food in the garbage just so you can't.

I can't even believe I'm humoring such a moronic analogy.

I wrote out a whole big...thing, talking about how you wouldn't be killing them for XP and loot because they don't really give either and you have to go well out of your way to find them. But its clear that you actually have no idea what is being complained about here, and this is just another excuse to call someone else a "crybaby" to feed your own ego.

Tieberion · April 2014

It's a similar story with people camping dungeon bosses, if you can't get a hit in then you do not get the dungeon explorer deed title for that dungeon. And its not just bots, but people farming for cash, crafting Decon items, and blues to sell can prevent completion. At one dungeon in Stormhaven today their were 4 bots, 8 people afk using killing macros, 5-7 actual people trying to farm, Plus the 4-7 running thru for the skyshard/dungeon deed.

BenjaminKacher_ESO · April 2014

YEAH LETS INSTANCE ALL THE SPAWNS! BETTER YET, LETS MAKE A NICE SINGLE PLAYER VERSION OF THIS GAME SO WE DON'T HAVE TO INTERACT WITH PEOPLE AT ALL!

o wait...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-legendary-edition-windows/8977112.p?id=1218960179661&skuId=8977112&st=skyrim&lp=2&cp=1

have at it. nobody will kill your vampires here.