Thank you zos for the changes you guys are currently implementing! I hope they go live! No this isn't sarcasm, but this is the best way to change the proc meta.
doesurmindglow wrote: »It's not up for debate what their position on this is, not really. It's clearly stated in their post: "These sets are seen as “free” sources of damage, healing and survivability, all of which come with minimal tradeoffs. We want these proc choices to mean something, rather than just the de facto method of building a character without paying for it in some way."
You guys should know by now, its going lives... they are working right now on q3/q4 ... so don't expect a change before that.
Health based tank shouldnt do damage at all.
Any game a tank does more damage than a damage dealer is just broken and not worth playing.
Thank you zos for the changes you guys are currently implementing! I hope they go live! No this isn't sarcasm, but this is the best way to change the proc meta.
People were complaining that there was too many fake tanks in the game, and now ZOS is trying to fix this by making a health or resistance requirement to use gear. Additionally, people were complaining that there wasn't enough tanks in the game and they didn't want to play as a tank since they couldn't solo with one so ZOS added a couple sets for tanks so they can do some DPS without having to pay money to respec.
jwellsub17_ESO2 wrote: »You either don't play MMORPGs or you have never dealt with people who do. There were people on live who were at 3600CP within a week of FOA being released. There are entire guilds out there right now with top of the line gear. No, it will not take very long to reach those levels when Blackwood goes live.TequilaFire wrote: »There are heavy hitters yes, but bear in mind they are using CP3600 templates with the best gear they can take out of containers.
It would take a very long time to reach those levels on live.
Seraphayel wrote: »First and foremost: reduce the effectiveness of every single proc set that heals or deals damage by 50%.
Second: set a cap for damage and healing potential that doesn’t change anymore after reaching a specific stat value.
Third: apply scaling that makes sense. If Weapon Damage can easily be 25% than Spell Damage, do not scale both the same way. Make it make sense.
The only problem are proc sets that directly deal damage or heal. Those are the problematic sets. I wish they would just bring back percentage based sets and keep all the others disabled until U31 and they had time for a proc set audit just with these sets. If the changes go live as they are now, U30 will be a worse proc meta than U27-29.
If you cannot do this: let only one damaging or healing proc set activate at a time and keep a 10 second CD between different proc sets active or whatever. Allowing this to go live would be fatal.
Thank you zos for the changes you guys are currently implementing! I hope they go live! No this isn't sarcasm, but this is the best way to change the proc meta.
Sadly, I am not talking about extreme cases, or pulling anything out of a hat. You are claiming that it would be a very long time to reach those levels on live, and I am pointing out that it took people less than a week to do it. Anytime someone says that it will take a long time to achieve something, that is not time gated, they are being naive.TequilaFire wrote: »jwellsub17_ESO2 wrote: »You either don't play MMORPGs or you have never dealt with people who do. There were people on live who were at 3600CP within a week of FOA being released. There are entire guilds out there right now with top of the line gear. No, it will not take very long to reach those levels when Blackwood goes live.TequilaFire wrote: »There are heavy hitters yes, but bear in mind they are using CP3600 templates with the best gear they can take out of containers.
It would take a very long time to reach those levels on live.
You want to pull the extreme case out of the hat, this is not the norm for most new players.
How is this relevant to testing on PTS where everyone can be 3600 with the best gear?
Also I have been playing this MMO for 7 years so try again.
Casual PvPers are the ones getting screwed the hardest here. They will have zero chance against 45k HP permablock Crimson procdens, zero chance against full burst stat magsorcs/stamblades with 30k HP and 30k armor, and zero chance against nigh immortal ball groups stacking 30k healing procs on top of Earthgore with infinite purge spam and rolling siege bubbles. Minmaxed cheese setups will dominate harder than ever. I have canceled my ESO+ and will not be spending money on this game until they sort this mess out.We must STOP listening to 1vX/gankers, they are the cause of ALL these NERFing threads. There is NOTHING wrong with crimson, high health, high healing, high shielding or ball groups to anyone in the game EXCEPT 1vX/ganker players who can't kill them instantly. 1vX and ganking are the most toxic aspect of PVP and should have never been allowed to exist at such extreme level.
jwellsub17_ESO2 wrote: »Sadly, I am not talking about extreme cases, or pulling anything out of a hat. You are claiming that it would be a very long time to reach those levels on live, and I am pointing out that it took people less than a week to do it. Anytime someone says that it will take a long time to achieve something, that is not time gated, they are being naive.TequilaFire wrote: »jwellsub17_ESO2 wrote: »You either don't play MMORPGs or you have never dealt with people who do. There were people on live who were at 3600CP within a week of FOA being released. There are entire guilds out there right now with top of the line gear. No, it will not take very long to reach those levels when Blackwood goes live.TequilaFire wrote: »There are heavy hitters yes, but bear in mind they are using CP3600 templates with the best gear they can take out of containers.
It would take a very long time to reach those levels on live.
You want to pull the extreme case out of the hat, this is not the norm for most new players.
How is this relevant to testing on PTS where everyone can be 3600 with the best gear?
Also I have been playing this MMO for 7 years so try again.
You are saying it takes top of the line gear, but there are already entire guilds wearing that top of the line gear. That is an unfortunate feature of MMORPGs. Hardcore players will get top of the line gear a quickly as possible, they always do.
People are looking at numbers, and videos of other content creators and not actually testing stuff themselves. I think the scaling is just fine, with a few minor adjustments it will be what is needed. People coming about certain sets like crimson for the heal as if it doesn't have a cooldown or you can't just dodge roll the damage.
I have been testing PTS for a week and even though at first I thought the proc set changes were really bad, mostly because I knew I would have to change all 13 toons setup because they are ALL hybrid, now that I tested some stuff it is not so bad. I'll just have to be more specialized and not as hybrid but everything will still work I think, maybe better.
The worst change was my pug random tank/DPS (YES that is a thing) with azureblight/leeching lost 50% of it's DPS capability and changed to more health/less stam. I find crimson/leeching to be not as good but OK on PTS. Not overpowered at all like some are saying. BTW I tested crimson in BGs for about 1 year and it was NEVER very good, unless you are against PVP players who are REALLY BAD.
We must STOP listening to 1vX/gankers, they are the cause of ALL these NERFing threads. There is NOTHING wrong with crimson, high health, high healing, high shielding or ball groups to anyone in the game EXCEPT 1vX/ganker players who can't kill them instantly. 1vX and ganking are the most toxic aspect of PVP and should have never been allowed to exist at such extreme level.
Why do 1vXers hate and make exxagerated vids about those builds/groups? Because their playstyle is to run around and around, then execute anyone with a well timed but cheesy combo, then run/hide/los around and around, until they can set up the exact combo on the next dude, rinse repeat. It does take a certain amount of skill to do this very well but not to the extent they try to claim. And these people never think about the REAL human beings on the other end who is just beginning to learn ESO PVP and completely discouraged from the game after it keeps happening.
My first 1 and half year I never did PVP, but by that time I had a group who could do most Vet dungeons. During an IC even we decided to all go into IC to see what it was all about, a full team tank, healer, 2 DD and we got wiped several times. We watched some vid, read some stuff and tried several times to do stuff but kept getting ganked with no hope. This was so disgusting (way more frustrating than even fighting the same vet boss 20 times just to figure out how to kill them) BUT also UNNECESSARY, for a couple telvars, that it made me stay away for 2 more years.
Some of the changes, new sets, etc should make it harder for griefer/gankers ruining the game for man people and overall that is a good thing.
This is exactly my sentiment and part of the reason why I stand on my statement, I am a solo player and a 1vX, and a lot of the time it is always the solo players complaining about proc damage sets, and they where also the same ones who complained when the stat based proc sets got disabled, they rather have this game cater to "THEIR" playstyle to be able to 1vX and kill people "Easier" that's why majority it's them making post and videos about how bad some of changes constantly made are. Crimson can be annoying but a good player just needs not to be within it's proximity. 1vX just want the game molded into their own world, and it also helps content creators to make video's to showcase this.
I would love for it to focus on the new and casual players, but IMNSHO that is not the case.TequilaFire wrote: »Of course existing veteran players were already at the top, the issue is new and casual players.
That is what ZOS focus is on, like it or not.
Thank you zos for the changes you guys are currently implementing! I hope they go live! No this isn't sarcasm, but this is the best way to change the proc meta.
[snip]
37k altmalexia tooltip, 20k vateshran, 27k crimson... this is what I've experiment ok pts.
And in group play it's worst than ever, cause you can buff minor/major courage, powerful assault, horn... that 20k vate becomes 25k, that 37k altmalexia becomes 40k...
Hybrids will be nerfed, wearing 3 proc set will be not so viable (health builds make exception) but gankers will be hugely buffed.
If I build for purely weapon dmg, I can get a AoE 25k/5 sec dot from Merciless, just investing 2 slot on my gear and 1 skill on my bar.
xylena_lazarow wrote: »Casual PvPers are the ones getting screwed the hardest here. They will have zero chance against 45k HP permablock Crimson procdens, zero chance against full burst stat magsorcs/stamblades with 30k HP and 30k armor, and zero chance against nigh immortal ball groups stacking 30k healing procs on top of Earthgore with infinite purge spam and rolling siege bubbles. Minmaxed cheese setups will dominate harder than ever. I have canceled my ESO+ and will not be spending money on this game until they sort this mess out.We must STOP listening to 1vX/gankers, they are the cause of ALL these NERFing threads. There is NOTHING wrong with crimson, high health, high healing, high shielding or ball groups to anyone in the game EXCEPT 1vX/ganker players who can't kill them instantly. 1vX and ganking are the most toxic aspect of PVP and should have never been allowed to exist at such extreme level.
SeaGtGruff wrote: »Health based tank shouldnt do damage at all.
I disagree with the "at all" part. When you create a new character, that character has a certain amount of max health, health regen, max mag, mag regen, max stam, and stam regen, without having acquired and distributed any APs yet. You want new characters to do 0 damage because they haven't put any points into stam yet? I assume you weren't being literal, but as it was worded your comment seems to imply that 0 stam points should equal 0 damage, which is absurd. "Shouldn't do very much damage" would have been better wording, although IMO being extremely healthy shouldn't necessarily mean that a character is unable to do any appreciable stam- or mag-based damage.Any game a tank does more damage than a damage dealer is just broken and not worth playing.
Uh, doesn't that depend on the builds? It would be much more reasonable to say that a DD build that can't do more damage than a tank is a terrible DD build.
jwellsub17_ESO2 wrote: »I would love for it to focus on the new and casual players, but IMNSHO that is not the case.TequilaFire wrote: »Of course existing veteran players were already at the top, the issue is new and casual players.
That is what ZOS focus is on, like it or not.
Perhaps I worded it a bit too harshly. I am not implying that it is not a good upgrade, merely that from my experience in the zone so far is that it is not focused on new or casual players.etchedpixels wrote: »Having wandered around it a bit and done some of the delve quests and the like the story stuff this time is actually looking pretty decent and isn't too demanding of combat skill. The pig one was a bit meh.. but the blackfeather court one is classic and some of the other bits are nicely done and some visuals like in the doomvault are superb.
https://youtu.be/MymYuAqIE5k relentless_turnip wrote: »Changes are amazing!!! Proc sets are totally balanced!!!https://youtu.be/MymYuAqIE5k
relentless_turnip wrote: »Changes are amazing!!! Proc sets are totally balanced!!!https://youtu.be/MymYuAqIE5k
Unfortunately this video is irrelevant, as it does not display actual group play pvp gameplay. Everyone knows that players deal more damage then adds. Wait until you get d swing by 4 people, then tell me If these changes are not balanced.
relentless_turnip wrote: »Changes are amazing!!! Proc sets are totally balanced!!!https://youtu.be/MymYuAqIE5k
Unfortunately this video is irrelevant, as it does not display actual group play pvp gameplay. Everyone knows that players deal more damage then adds. Wait until you get d swing by 4 people, then tell me If these changes are not balanced.
doesurmindglow wrote: »It's not up for debate what their position on this is, not really. It's clearly stated in their post: "These sets are seen as “free” sources of damage, healing and survivability, all of which come with minimal tradeoffs. We want these proc choices to mean something, rather than just the de facto method of building a character without paying for it in some way."
How can it be free? I paid good money to be able to farm my proc sets!
Free the damage!!!
relentless_turnip wrote: »Changes are amazing!!! Proc sets are totally balanced!!!https://youtu.be/MymYuAqIE5k
Unfortunately this video is irrelevant, as it does not display actual group play pvp gameplay. Everyone knows that players deal more damage then adds. Wait until you get d swing by 4 people, then tell me If these changes are not balanced.
Actually it is relevant. It's a build in the Imperial City being able to take on one of the District Bosses—dealing damage and self healing—without requiring a single button press except the occasional repositioning to get out of a corner. It's ESO being played on autopilot. These kinds of builds should not be possible.
Except on the PTS currently they are. And ZOS needs to know that the current method and implementation of scaling they have adopted allow builds like this. Imagine this kind of build in PVE where there's no Battle Spirit. Why bother actively grinding when you could plant yourself on one of the spawn zones in the Spell-Scar and just watch a movie while the game plays itself for you in the background?
relentless_turnip wrote: »Changes are amazing!!! Proc sets are totally balanced!!!https://youtu.be/MymYuAqIE5k
Unfortunately this video is irrelevant, as it does not display actual group play pvp gameplay. Everyone knows that players deal more damage then adds. Wait until you get d swing by 4 people, then tell me If these changes are not balanced.
Actually it is relevant. It's a build in the Imperial City being able to take on one of the District Bosses—dealing damage and self healing—without requiring a single button press except the occasional repositioning to get out of a corner. It's ESO being played on autopilot. These kinds of builds should not be possible.
Except on the PTS currently they are. And ZOS needs to know that the current method and implementation of scaling they have adopted allow builds like this. Imagine this kind of build in PVE where there's no Battle Spirit. Why bother actively grinding when you could plant yourself on one of the spawn zones in the Spell-Scar and just watch a movie while the game plays itself for you in the background?
Correct this is "PTS" and not a "LIVE" server, so that makes the video irrelevant! Because something such as that would not go live, and the boss itself wouldn't die to that AFK build, any low level trash mobs would.