Iccotak wrote: »

Also the Argonians look way cooler than the other races.

That is one mighty fine looking Argonian, there.

Iccotak wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

I don't hate argonians, I just have negative (not even zero) interest in them. The reasons are
6. They remind me of dragonborn D&D race that completely destroyed the dragon disciple appeal.

Really? Not the Lizardfolk from D&D? because Dragonborn act very different

Lizardfolk are not playable (at least with the sane number of books or in CRPGs), so I am comparing playable Dragonborn with playable argonians. Overall both are in the uncanny valley of "too human and too reptile at the same time".

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

OMG, what is that mount? I want it!

It looks like Elder Argonian motif. Can't say if it is all heavy or a mixture of light / medium / heavy.

I don't doubt that some people really dislike the Argonian concept, but I really don't think its any more than the rate of dislike for other races. A lot of what you see is just people meme-ing it up, being edgy, being funny, or latching onto the big, coarse, obvious or striking bits of lore - and given the based audience, the more shocking or controversial, the better. Argonians are slaves. Orcs are Elves that got pooped out by Boethiath. Etc.

I do see a lot of curiosity about their alien lore tho, and for all the cool argonians I see everywhere, I'd be surprised if there was a huge margin between argonians and others.

And yeah, some people need to feel everything is relatable, but many others want the fantastical in their fantasy. Some of our best fantasy works are alien and not very relatable.

If nothing else, this thread should show you that there's not all that much hate after all.

Argonians arent hated, they are just U G L Y and in general an inferior being. Their potion passive is good, but youd think with all those potions theyd drink a beauty elixir once n awhile. Ask Zenimax why they hate them so much, they designed them. They even SOUND like handbags when they get hit, either that or they're all long-time smokers. Imagine a beautiful tropical bird with lots of feathers that got incinerated by destruction magic, thats literally what argonians look like. Everyone in TES seems to have access to magic but every time a quest involves an argonian its usually stuck in a primitive wooden cage. Theyre at the bottom of the food chain, eternal victoms to their own incompetence. If one existed in real life it would just be called 'Lame Godzilla' and the movie about it would be even worse. Theyll never make a TES with an argonian on the cover cus they actually wanna sell copies. If argonians had a theme song itd be that sarah mcgloughlin song that they play on those homeless dog commercials. At least those are sad in a way that makes you wanna help them, whereas argonians are sad in a way that makes you wish theyd go away like a bum asking for change. And at least that bum probably has a funny sign or something, unless its an argonian bum in which case the sign wont be funny and also 'argonian bum' is redundant. The most positive experience youll have with an argonian involves gross talk about their 'hist sap', which if thats not a 'im trapped in a sex cult' red flag i dint know what is.

That said i I have all my trifecta's on my Argonian.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Argonians freak me out because for all we know they are actually not a separate lifeform anymore but a mobile, prehensile, semi-autonomous extension of the Hist which in turn is a completely alien lifeform in shape, thought and motivation.

It is entirely possible that they [the Hist] might be non-linear too, unbound from the arrow of time.

The whole proposition is unnerving to say the least.

That is not true at all... Argonians are not "automatons" that are being controlled by hist's wi-fi, lol that is not how it works

Argonians that are gifted (not all, usually only some can) can communicate with the hist, they have free will and they can do what they want.

It is same as Dunmers & Tribunal. They listen to tribunal not because they have to or are forced to, but because they have free will and they listen to them as they know tribunal is wise and will take care of them.

Hist is the same thing for Argonians. Also, Argonians who live far away form black marsh and hist trees, somehow do not struggle and can have prosperous live, despite living without hist tree.

Except when for instance the Oblivion crisis happens, which the Hist either predicted or they had already known about (one and the same thing if one is non-linear) and the Argonians are compelled to behave in a very specific way, amassing where the portals would open and actually taking the offensive as soon as they do, catching the daedra 'with their pants down'.

Hist showed them the way, true, but It did not brain-washed them or anything. They still had free will. They were just defending their homeland & the hist.

Also important part is to understand that this "awesome" move (forcing Daedra to evacuate lol) was done only in tribal societies, where connection with the hist is stronger. In other parts of Tamriel, Argonians were not involved as much in Oblivion Crisis.

Anyway, same thing would have happened if Daedra invaded Deshan or Vivec or Clockwork city (home of tribunal). Many Dunmer with religious passion & tribunal's blessing would fight to defend their lands and tribunal.

It is implied that they did not in fact - the majority anyway - exercise free will; they were compelled to act in that way without understanding why and to deal with any... dissension with extreme prejudice.

Wouldn't it be the same if fanatic Dunmers would defend their beloved tribunal ? Because I think it is the same case.

Anyway, can you link me the source of that info ? I mean the part when it explicitly says that Argonians did not had any free will and they were controlled like husks ? ? ? Manipulation is not the same as having a free will and doing something willingly.

So, after searching for a source last night all I could find was speculation - educated speculation but speculation all the same - on the subject rather than anything official.

There were a number of reddit threads that given the age (around three years) I probably visited at the time and one YouTube video by FudgeMuppet that is highly likely I watched plus the book @NotaDaedraWorshipper (thanks for the linked thread, made for a thought provoking reading) pointed out which I have read but no incontrovertible evidence from an official source.

The compulsion they feel to return to the Hist and their dependence on matters of reproduction could be explained by different means other than not being independent from them anymore.

However what I suggested in my posts was not that the Hist might mind control the Argonians but that the 'modern' Argonians might be an extension of the Hist; could be that my prose let me down and the point came across muddied. I mean your brain technically mind controls your limbs if you want to look at it that way I guess but your limbs are considered part of 'you'.

Either way as often happens with TES lore is 'up to interpretation'; I still find the Hist, and by extension the Argonians, unnerving...

The first race I ever played in TES was Argonian, in Oblivion, and it remains one of my favorite. Dislike/fear of reptiles is very common though, I would say roughly 50% of the people I know fall somewhere from uncomfortable to phobic, and I think that's the answer. I don't happen to have that fear but you'd never catch me playing a spider like race if one were available. Insectoid, yeah. I think a beetle or mantis like race would be fun, but I'm not at all afraid of beetles, ants, etc. Just spiders.

SammyKhajit wrote: »

The reality is, some players project their real life hatred and discriminations against certain groups, onto fantasy games and characters, because it’s a roundabout way of expressing racism and other hateful behaviours.

I agree man, and you find all sorts on the internet. But I think 9 times out of 10 its just someone being silly, and people are being inappropriately hypervigilant, if a lot of the responses in zone chat and forums are anything to go by. I don't that stuff is good evidence for "so much hatred for Argonians".

Ryuvain wrote: »

SammyKhajit wrote: »

The reality is, some players project their real life hatred and discriminations against certain groups, onto fantasy games and characters, because it’s a roundabout way of expressing racism and other hateful behaviours.

This is different from players who dislike playing as certain races. It’s when you read irrational posts about Argonians and so-called “jokes” about slavery or wallets etc you have to wonder about the motivation of the posters and why they are so keen in spewing out such vileness.

Exactly. See, some may even be joking when they constantly bring up handbags, but what about those going on in chat for 10+ minutes? Some see jokes and truly believe them. Saying no one ever believed that argonians are inferior is blatantly false.

Same with khajiit and constant furry jokes.

Unfortunately, there will always be people joking about others. I will never understand where this comes from and I'd rather not start with kitchen psychology. It only helps to ignore this.

SammyKhajit wrote: »

The reality is, some players project their real life hatred and discriminations against certain groups, onto fantasy games and characters, because it’s a roundabout way of expressing racism and other hateful behaviours.

This is different from players who dislike playing as certain races. It’s when you read irrational posts about Argonians and so-called “jokes” about slavery or wallets etc you have to wonder about the motivation of the posters and why they are so keen in spewing out such vileness.

Yep. People do it, simply because... they can get away with this. If they can be mean towards a virtual race, they would also be mean toward RL race. The difference being that in RL there are consequences and they won't be able to "get away" with such behaviour.

But even if... even if those are just jokes - those are taken seriously if you do not make any indication that it is just "RP" stuff. If some one would say mean things in zone chat , but start with "RP:" - then it would be fine. But the point is that people don't do that. So it pretty much looks Iike they abuse anonymity on the Internet.

Also, by being "mean" towards a virtual race, you are mean towards players who like the race and identify with their in-game avatar. If someone likes cats, they will play as a Khajiit. If someone likes dragons, dinosaurs or other reptiles - they will play as an Argonian.

So, if you are going to RP a 2-nd era Telvani, think of it how it will be received if you do not indicate in any way that you are joking / RP.

i personally like them as they allow for some interesting character concepts being a more fantasy race compared to the others, khajiit aside, its just flavors of human and elf, and of course, orcs.

that being said.

-they are sort of unexplored and dont have many notable figures to rally behind.

-they have generally lost most / every conflict in TES history until oblivion crisis / red year, they were kind of a doormat before, going so far as to be commonly enslaved, hey wanna play a slave!

-they were made by and worship trees. . .

-culturally they dont create or leave behind impressive cities or feats of engineering, aside from the aztec pyramids. i mean their primary form of housing pre dlc was mud huts. . .hard to be proud of that.

-we still dont understand the whole eggs / 80085 thing.

-they dont really care about their history and are very fluid, if they dont care its hard to care personally.


yeah

i dont hate them, but they dont have alot going for them to draw people in other then "lizard people" and if you try and dig deeper its like it goes out of its way to be uninteresting and boring. that is a far cry from the crazy and interesting lore almost every other race gets.

argonians just want to be left alone and splash about in the mud

I've actually gotten quite a few compliments on my DK.
All my 10+ chars are argonians, each their own class and role, they're my fav and i think they look great especially their animations is a huge improvement compared to previous titles, i love their culture and aztec/mayan style buildings and i can't wait to see how they will look like in Elder Scrolls 6.

The most ''hate'' i've seen were on the forums, some people can take that way too far and then use the ''i'm rping/it's lore'' as excuse. Although i admit i've avoided this place for a long time because at some point you start taking that personal, but i guess then it becomes my problem, so i don't know if anything changed.

It's a lot nicer in-game i think, although that College of Aldmeri Propriety still gives me ptsd.

I gotta give props to Tommy_The_Gun, you're spot on.

SammyKhajit wrote: »

The reality is, some players project their real life hatred and discriminations against certain groups, onto fantasy games and characters, because it’s a roundabout way of expressing racism and other hateful behaviours.

This is different from players who dislike playing as certain races. It’s when you read irrational posts about Argonians and so-called “jokes” about slavery or wallets etc you have to wonder about the motivation of the posters and why they are so keen in spewing out such vileness.

I agree 110%, it's very uncomfortable especially ingame, as my argonians have argonian names, so people spot it instantly in chat and in zone there's like a 50% for these toxic 'jokes' even when I'm just, like, trying to answer a noob's question or something.

Group content I don't see it as often but does still happen from Dunmer players.

The hate is there, I experienced it, I lived in Bal Foyen for years until moving to Riftin (which was a mistake in it's own right) and almost daily there's toxic argonian hate, some RP, some just... grossness.

my first character in a tes game was an argonian. i like argonian for healer/tank role as well. i always bring argonians in pvp because their extra resources help me feel less anxious. i do not like the way they look without cool skins though xD