Why do people hate argonians?

YandereGirlfriend · April 2021

I like Argonians and especially admire the voice actor who does their voices.

But I think the primary reason is because they are alien without being cute.

Khajiits are alien as well... but they're cats and people generally love cute cats. Argonians have an inscrutable culture (Meso-American influences are lost on most people...) on the surface and they're lizards... and most people don't like lizards because they're not generally considered to be cute.

But as a general heuristic (for basically anything in media): IF something is cute -> people love it; ELSE -> people hate it or are at best indifferent.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · April 2021

I'm just here to say I love argonians. They are my favourite. That is all.

Wandering_Immigrant · April 2021

A lot of people are put off by reptiles (irl). I've owned snakes, an iguana, a couple geckos. You tend to get a strong reaction one way or the other when you tell someone you have a pet lizard. Some people are afraid to even touch them and they ask weird questions like "is it slimey?" or "but how do you cuddle with it?".

Cats (Khajiit) may be far from human, but they're still mammals and that makes them relatable on an evolutionary level. Lizards are just... different, alien even. A world were felines evolved on a similar evolutionary path as monkeys is fascinating, adorable even. A world where lizards did, that's off-putting, and scary even. So playing as that just doesn't appeal to a lot of people.

I think their in game lore plays into it as well. They're portrayed as the passifists of tamriel, and this is reflected in their racial passives. Most people's idea of a hardened warrior doesn't have room for any (literal) tree-hugging, and people are generally going to pick a race that plays more into their power fantasy.

I don't think they're hated though, outside of RP racism, just less played.

ThorianB · April 2021

I don't like:

The way they look.
The way they talk.
The way they act.
Their culture.
Their armor style.
Their names for everything.
Their building/housing style( mostly i like the reed stuff).

I am not a huge fan of khajiit but do like them more. I rarely play non humanoid races in most games i play. I just don't care for them for the most part. I don't mind them being in the game. I like having a variety of sentient species to interact with. I would only interact though not play or get to much into their culture or styles. It is no different then some people only playing one character and that is it. Just preference.

Sylvermynx · April 2021

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I like Argonians and especially admire the voice actor who does their voices.

But I think the primary reason is because they are alien without being cute.

Khajiits are alien as well... but they're cats and people generally love cute cats. Argonians have an inscrutable culture (Meso-American influences are lost on most people...) on the surface and they're lizards... and most people don't like lizards because they're not generally considered to be cute.

But as a general heuristic (for basically anything in media): IF something is cute -> people love it; ELSE -> people hate it or are at best indifferent.

I love the MesoAmerican culture - because my son-in-law is descended from people of that culture. But that's another disconnect - my SIL is a wonderful human being.... and his familial heritage being used for Argonians disturbs me. But that's not the primary thing - I've just never liked Argonians; it's just an "addition to" sort of thing.

Khajiit - the first character I played in Arena was Khajiit. Probably Ohmes furstock - no tail.... I've a long history of reading and writing cat-folk.

Now, regardless my feelings about Argonians - I actually love snakes and lizards. Not crocs and gators though....

EllieBlue · April 2021

I love Xukas! My most favourite NPC. I want to be best friend with him.

I don't hate Argonian. I just can't stand the synthesized voice they're given. It's bloody awful. That said, they toned down the voice synthesized effect in Murkmire a lot and it was so so good.

GreenHere · April 2021

Ashryn wrote: »

Not hate, just find their voices very annoying.

Nailed it.

I like Argonians overall, but save a few of the voice actors who do a good job of it, a lot of them have voices that just sound like... some goober in a booth "doing a weird voice" to me. Khajiit have this problem too. All I can picture is some voice actor at the mic making weird faces trying to sound "exotic" or whatever, and it often yanks me right out of whatever immersion I had. So essentially, it's mostly a "me problem" I guess.

But I don't hate them at all. 3 of my 18 characters are lizard-folk, and I've generally enjoyed my adventures in all the Argonian-centric storylines. They've got a lot of interesting stuff goin on.

I think it largely just comes down to actors' tendency to overdo the beast-folk speech for a lot of us.

ZOS would be way better off hiring people with unique voices to read the lines more or less normally, rather than hiring more or less normal people to read the lines "uniquely", imo.

Athan1 · April 2021

Since you want a serious reply, people prefer things they can relate with. Men and mer, even cat-people, are easier for humans to relate with, compared to reptilians. They are just too unfamiliar with our body structures, their faces aren't as expressive, we can't empathise with them. The devs even added breasts to female lizards to make them more relatable/likeable to us mammals (reptiles don't lactate!). The hissing sounds that they naturally make (which I personally love) widen this gap, as they sound too strange to us.

On top of that, the tribal/ hunter-gatherer culture of the Argonians is the least familiar to ESO players, who typically live in agricultural/industrialized societies (hence they have access to computers and the internet to play the game). Therefore, it's harder to understand how Argonian tribes work. You may think that the same applies to Bosmer, but they're actually more humanoid, they have a centralized government (a king), and their social organization is more familiar to us (save for the cannibalism bit, which most people ignore anyway because it contradicts norms).

So there you go, no handbag jokes

cyclonus11 · April 2021

I always play them because I enjoy the feeling of taking the most downtrodden and disrespected and turning them into powerful heroes.

Hapexamendios · April 2021

I have 2 Argonian tanks I use regularly in normal and vet content. Also have a healer I hope to get vet ready at some point.

dem0n1k · April 2021

I really don't see any hate. just a bit of joking around.. which is based in a deep-seated jealousy of the wonderful Argonian hide patterns. Especially from Altmer players with their bland yellow skin.. so lacking in any pattern or texture! *lizard spit*

I like Argonians because their solution to most of life's problems is to chugg a potion

MrGhosty · April 2021

I enjoy my characters from all the races, but my two argonians are my most treasured. Most of my toons are parked atm just doing crafting writs, but I will take time every so often to tweak their outfits or run around for a few minutes. I'm also steadily buying all of the Argonian houses that you can get for gold. One of my favorite zones in the whole game is Murkmire, that storyline resonated with me.

As for other players, beyond the usual min maxxer talk I don't know that I've ever seen any actual hate directed at argonians beyond the usual jokes you would expect to see in zone chat. Their passives aren't the best for sure, but having a character who can swim very fast makes doing Shadowfen and Murkmire go a little bit faster.

Their base game cultural armor would be super cool if it wasn't so flat, thankfully later motifs sorted that and make for some of my favorite armor in the game. Play what you love and don't worry about those who disagree with you I say.

xxthir13enxx · April 2021

Personally, I just think they taste funny….
Nothing at all like chicken…

Wolfpaw wrote: »

The show "V" during my adolescent years 😉

^Lmao!!! Indeed

coop500 · April 2021

For people who don't think they are hated, please see this poll: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471267/what-is-your-least-favorite-race-and-why/p1

Athan1 wrote: »

Since you want a serious reply, people prefer things they can relate with. Men and mer, even cat-people, are easier for humans to relate with, compared to reptilians. They are just too unfamiliar with our body structures, their faces aren't as expressive, we can't empathise with them. The devs even added breasts to female lizards to make them more relatable/likeable to us mammals (reptiles don't lactate!). The hissing sounds that they naturally make (which I personally love) widen this gap, as they sound too strange to us.

On top of that, the tribal/ hunter-gatherer culture of the Argonians is the least familiar to ESO players, who typically live in agricultural/industrialized societies (hence they have access to computers and the internet to play the game). Therefore, it's harder to understand how Argonian tribes work. You may think that the same applies to Bosmer, but they're actually more humanoid, they have a centralized government (a king), and their social organization is more familiar to us (save for the cannibalism bit, which most people ignore anyway because it contradicts norms).

So there you go, no handbag jokes

Thank you for the serious and detailed response. This does make a bit of sense, so I guess it boils down to... people are too self centered? I don't mean that in a rude way, but their inability to think outside their circle of life and what is familiar to them I think falls under that? I could be wrong, again I mean no offense.

dem0n1k · April 2021

A poll on 'least favourite race' is not an indication of hatred. Everyone is going to have a range of favouritism, it does not mean that they hate whatever race is on the bottom of the list.. just think of it as the 10th favourite race

SeaGtGruff · April 2021

MrGhosty wrote: »

I'm also steadily buying all of the Argonian houses that you can get for gold.

There's only 3, right-- 4 if you include the Crowns-only house?

coop500 · April 2021

dem0n1k wrote: »

A poll on 'least favourite race' is not an indication of hatred. Everyone is going to have a range of favouritism, it does not mean that they hate whatever race is on the bottom of the list.. just think of it as the 10th favourite race

That was just one example, I have seen a LOT of argonian hate and usually people don't explain why, they just are like 'lizards suck' and sure, half of them could be joking (and probably are) but it's still very confusing to me how people can hate one whole race.

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Supreme_Atromancer · April 2021

coop500 wrote: »

For people who don't think they are hated, please see this poll: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471267/what-is-your-least-favorite-race-and-why/p1

Athan1 wrote: »

Since you want a serious reply, people prefer things they can relate with. Men and mer, even cat-people, are easier for humans to relate with, compared to reptilians. They are just too unfamiliar with our body structures, their faces aren't as expressive, we can't empathise with them. The devs even added breasts to female lizards to make them more relatable/likeable to us mammals (reptiles don't lactate!). The hissing sounds that they naturally make (which I personally love) widen this gap, as they sound too strange to us.

On top of that, the tribal/ hunter-gatherer culture of the Argonians is the least familiar to ESO players, who typically live in agricultural/industrialized societies (hence they have access to computers and the internet to play the game). Therefore, it's harder to understand how Argonian tribes work. You may think that the same applies to Bosmer, but they're actually more humanoid, they have a centralized government (a king), and their social organization is more familiar to us (save for the cannibalism bit, which most people ignore anyway because it contradicts norms).

So there you go, no handbag jokes

Thank you for the serious and detailed response. This does make a bit of sense, so I guess it boils down to... people are too self centered? I don't mean that in a rude way, but their inability to think outside their circle of life and what is familiar to them I think falls under that? I could be wrong, again I mean no offense.

Samples are a funny thing - with two different samples, you might get entirely different views. With any particular poll, you could come to the conclusion that everyone hates Bretons because they are boring medieval England rip-offs, Khajiits because they're furries, Nords because they're just slapstick "i love mead and fighting yuk yuk!"

Personally, I think the "must be relatable" thing is majorly overplayed. There was a reason that TES3's movement away from what we know resonated so powerfully that its the yardstick against which all other TES games are compared.

And even if it were the major determining factor, I think "self-centred" is an overly coloured way to look at it. Its fantasy and escapism, after all.

I love Argonians. They are an interesting race, and make the world more interesting for having them. And Heem-Jas is awesome. No matter how many times I play through Maz, I still get a chuckle over his lines and delivery!

Anyone who doesn't like Heem-Jas is a [Snip] [Snip] [Snip]ing [Snip] [Snip] who probably [Snip]s [Snip] while [Snip]ing [Snip]y [Snip] [Snip].

Roztlin45 · April 2021

Argonians should.have been made to look.like the gorn. The skinny ugly lizzard is hard to enjoy. I have one argonian healer and keep her under a mask. We need a brown paper bag with two eye holes hat just for them.

menedhyn · April 2021

coop500 wrote: »

...it's still very confusing to me how people can hate one whole race.

All the races attract love and hate, some more so than others. Some reasons and views make sense, because they are sensibly made. I enjoy reading them. Sometimes they make me chuckle if it is apparent they're just having a bit of fun. Others take their dislike too far, sometimes wrapped up as RP, or come across as pedants. I ignore those people. You get to know them as they crop up regularly in similar racial threads.

All that matters is you play the races you love. Ignore the hate. It isn't relevant.

Lugaldu · April 2021

I really like Argonians and the Argonian culture in ESO, but I would never play an Argonian (nothing else than Mer, actually). I also find them somehow cute, which I cannot say about the Khajiit although I like cats irl. Simply different tastes.

Perhaps most of the participants in the poll also thought more about which race they would play last themselves and this may be related to the possibilities of creating a character with whom you can identify yourself. And lizard men are probably the furthest away for most of the people.

Darkstorne · April 2021

I love Argonians. They have some awesome lore where it relates to the Hist, and kicked Mehrunes Dagon's ass during the Oblivion Crisis (in Blackmarsh, Argonians invade you).

I'll always be sad that the uncreative minds that built ESO's launch version opted for the most uninspired and generic architecture and armour styles for them though. Quite possibly the worst thing ESO has introduced lore-wise, but at least Murkmire went to great lengths to try and make up for that with some genuinely creative lore.

TwinLamps · April 2021

I like argonians.
Pretty interesting race, with veiled past we still dont know too much about and great potential for in game meme names that mimic the lore friendly TES related ones.
Great tails, too.

snoozy · April 2021

bad looks, bad racials, the swamps are terrible. also many argonian npcs are super annoying.

SammyKhajit · April 2021

This one is a khajit, and very different from their scaly friends of Shadowfen and beyond, but the Argonians’ struggle for independence and self determination from the elves have this one’s staunch support and solidarity.

Starlight_Whisper · April 2021

I like them but only after I understood them more.

Olauron · April 2021

I don't hate argonians, I just have negative (not even zero) interest in them. The reasons are

1. They are lizards. Good for soup, not so much for anything else.
2. They are ugly. There are handsome and beautiful bretons, nords, bosmers, altmers, dunmers, there are nice imperials and redguards, khajiits have some cat appeal, but argonians are just not pleasant to look at.
3. They have primitive tribal culture. Not a fan of it.
4. There are no beautiful things related to argonians at all. No buildings, no clothing, no jewelry, no furniture, no kitchenware that is pleasant enough to look at. Compare that to Incan culture with magnificent goldware and clothing.
5. Their habitat being swamps with stinky bog water and full of insects doesn't generate any love for argonians as well.
6. They remind me of dragonborn D&D race that completely destroyed the dragon disciple appeal.

Lugaldu · April 2021

Olauron wrote: »

1. They are lizards. Good for soup, not so much for anything else.

Who eats lizard soup, not even we as Bosmer do that (at least not in my family)?

myskyrim26 · April 2021

Anyone has a right to love or hate anything. Some players hate Argonians. Other players hate Altmer, Nords, Khajjit or other race. I really love Argonians, and I really hate Bosmer. Now what? Do we all must shut up to please others?