I agree. I just played through the new tutorial and liked it fine, but I've liked all the other tutorials as well and don't understand the restriction. It doesn't even really seem to solve the "problem" that they gave as reasoning, since it seemed to me that now more than ever I was being thrown in with little real reference to the actual dilemma of whatever area I chose.

I went through it on the PTS and chose the Summerset portal, and I was actually pleased to see that it began to play the intro cinematic for that particular Chapter. However, during that clip, it's suggested that not only are you exploring a dungeon with companions when a cave-in occurs, but that you are attacked by an unknown magical force, to which you are told to "wake up" from. When the cutscene ends, you're just standing out in daylight with no idea what just happened, or who that was (because it didn't actually happen to YOU in this story). It clearly seems glued together, and frankly would be a much uglier introduction to the game if this was my first character. The cutscene to gameplay for each of the Chapters works very well, but that's all lost with this new implementation yet would easily be fixed by just allowing the player to select "Summerset Tutorial" in the character creator.

Why ARE the starter island portals there anyways? They make no sense unless the game forces you to go through the first Coldharbour main quest where you escape from Coldharbour and THEN end up in the starter island of your faction.

New players are going to be completely confused especially with the Daggerfall starter islands, because being the Vestige is LITERALLY a plot point for the resolution of the Betnikh storyline.

The Tutorial was nice looking but way too short and didnt explain much sneaking pick locks probably loads of other things too that would be useful.

BIGGEST FLAW the portals should take you to what was the old tutorials, i chose Blackreach hoping to run the caves where you meet Fennorian etc only to be thrown outside with no clue what to do where to go, this is so much WORSE for new players and old alike, yes i like the choice but you have removed some of the best story intro's BRING THEM BACK.

Never cut great content from a game.

I agree that it would be better if the portal leads you into the tutorial for your chosen area rather than just dumping you into that map.

For me this tutorial is an improvement because it leaves where you were and what you were doing before going through the portal to Balfiera entirely ambiguous, which gives a lot more freedom for creating your own backstory. I don't have to justify a character being in a specific part of the world or involved in specific events - they just ended up going through a portal and there's dozens of ways that could happen. That also fits with being able to choose where you go when you leave - maybe you're going back to the events you were interested in (maybe already involved in), maybe you're going as far from where you were as possible, maybe you're going to whatever sounds the most exciting. It's left entirely open so it gives a lot more freedom for making characters.

But going from the end of this tutorial to the start of your chosen storyline is messy and that could be solved by putting you into the relevant tutorial. Or for the base game starter islands putting you into the main city where the Hooded Figure will find you, maybe right by the relevant building?)

Otherwise the cut scene makes no sense and there's nothing to explain how and why these NPCs trust someone who must have just appeared from thin air or why you're immediately involved in local events. As well as Summerset I can see Greymoor being especially jarring because your dialogue throughout the early part of the main quest is referencing what you saw during the tutorial, except you won't have seen it so it'll make no sense at all.

Grega wrote: »

Are there any achievements added for new tutorial? If anyone in PTS can check. I hope not since the area is inaccessible to any characters created prior to update 30.

I can't confirm it until I'm able to log in later today but I don't remember seeing an achievement for it. None of the previous chapter tutorials had achievements. (I know the Morrowind one didn't because I checked repeatedly while trying to convince myself it didn't matter which one my warden did.)

Danikat wrote: »

But going from the end of this tutorial to the start of your chosen storyline is messy and that could be solved by putting you into the relevant tutorial. Or for the base game starter islands putting you into the main city where the Hooded Figure will find you, maybe right by the relevant building?)

I would agree with this. It would make a lot more sense if there wasn't the option of all three Alliances, and you just had one portal that went straight to somewhere with the Hooded Figure. Then you would follow that and end up right on the Starter Island as the story originally played out.

It works exactly like it worked before, pretty much nothing changed about that quest progression. Definitely very confusing for new players and is a pretty unintuitive loop.

The best solution I can think off is that the post-Coldharbour drop off point should be moved to Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon, so you pretty much pick up where you left off. Many thing about the starter island still wouldn't make sense, but at least you wouldn't get looped back.

(Tbh the best BEST solution I can think off is unbinding the MQ from the base zones, but that's never gonna happen)

I like the concept of a brand new Tutorial (but one that teaches additional new tips/tools etc.) and therefore would explain why it is a neutral new tutorial.

Currently zone chat/guild chat is the real tutorial for really simple basic things that really should be taught in the actual tutorial. Yes we have tooltips however they need to pop up at the exact time when a player wants to know about it. For Veteran players or even experienced MMO players, some things may be second nature, however for those that have never played an MMO before have no clue how to do very basic things. I already sent feedback last year so I won't clutter up this post with all those suggestions as this Tutorial is already finished and it is in it's polishing phase.

I like the concept of having people choose where to start their journey (story line).

The tutorial and storylines need to be completely separate from one another.

A tutorial is just that. It should 'teach' new players how to play the basics of the game. It also is the very first time a player sees the game.

A story line is just that. So giving a player a choice where to start their journey (storyline) is a great feature. It must however make sense and not confuse players as to how it is implemented.

My next comment goes to the unnecessary graphic around the combat tutorial. Why decrease the field of view (yes I play on gamepad as I play on my TV) but it takes up half my screen. For anyone with bad eyesight, headaches, migraines, having to strain their eyes to just see what is going on when they are also trying to look at the keyboard/controller to get used to the buttons and muscle memory to go back and forth to this screen. It is very unnecessary eye strain.

Danikat wrote: »

phantasmalD wrote: »

It works exactly like it worked before, pretty much nothing changed about that quest progression. Definitely very confusing for new players and is a pretty unintuitive loop.

The best solution I can think off is that the post-Coldharbour drop off point should be moved to Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon, so you pretty much pick up where you left off. Many thing about the starter island still wouldn't make sense, but at least you wouldn't get looped back.

(Tbh the best BEST solution I can think off is unbinding the MQ from the base zones, but that's never gonna happen)

I'd do it the other way around: Instead of choosing a starting island at the end of the new tutorial you choose to go to Davon's Watch, Vulkhel Guard or Daggerfall, arriving right by the house the main quest sends you to. Then you can be approached by the hooded figure to start the main quest, follow them to the house (making it nearby reduces the risk of being side-tracked with other quests) and end up at the starter island in a way that makes sense for the narrative.

It fits what's already in the game and means new players (or current players making new characters) wanting to start with the main quest get a sensible narrative instead of a weird loop of ending up back on an island you've already completed with nothing to do.

It also has the added benefit of adding more options for people who want to do the tutorial but don't want to do any of the main storylines: they can go straight from the new tutorial to a main city then go their own way from there. I recognise that's a pretty niche choice, so I wouldn't propose accomodating it if it wasn't tied to an option that would also help new players and people who want a coherent narrative.

Yes, this exactly. There is absolutely no reason to have portals leading to the starter islands; just have the portals leading to the three main cities and plop the toons right near the Hooded Figure.

Then we won't have the confusing "time loop" that would do nothing but hinder a new player's ability to discern the story.

I am going to copy and paste my response to a similar thread in general forums https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570185/zos-is-missing-the-point-let-us-choose-our-tutorial-quest-not-just-starting-location#latest

The issue here is that people are all missing the point of what a Tutorial is actually for.

Brand New Players -- need to learn how to use basic skills/interactions. Old Tutorials do not give the updated combat training that the new ones do. The game will evolve over time and there absolutely needs to be a separate generic tutorial that can be improved upon without too much game story intertwined.

Currently the Tutorial has lost it's meaning as to the actual purpose of it. I can understand the story immersion aspect from a role players point of view and the 'replay' factor. The entire premise though of what a Tutorial is actually for should not be lost. Tutorials should never be so intertwined with a storyline that they cannot be separated, as this is the problem and where we are at now.

It is assumed that most people just know how to play an MMO and understand basic fundamentals. Over the past several years, I lost track of how many people I had to show what a wayshrine was, what a Mundas stone was, how to get a horse, what an NPC banker is, and yes how to quickslot potions, to visit bookshelves, look into urns. When there are players well into starting their CP grind do not have a Mundas equipped, know to eat/drink food to improve, understand the fundamentals between wearing armor and the associated skill lines there is a failure of the teaching tools. People that have played these kinds of games take for granted they learned these skills in other games and look for the counterparts in ESO. For those that pick up a computer game for the first time or first time playing an MMO they are truly and completely lost. They do not even know what 'tank' means.

So while I understand from a replay/roleplay perspective and storyline aspect how you wish to start the (Tutorial) where you want, but I think from what I am hearing it is really the immersion storyline that you are most concerned with and nostalgia of being 'born' in certain lands. This leaves new players in the dust when it comes to 'how to play' as some of the older tutorials do not teach the combat training to the extent the new ones do.

New players won't know the difference from old tutorial to new if they haven't seen the old ones before. People who are role playing and re-playing do not need to 'learn how to play' so there is no need to go through combat training.

Could the game recognize a new install of the game and offer the Tutorial (the newest version) to the player so that it can do what it is meant to to and teach the fundamentals of the game necessary to play without any MMO experience. Teach them whatever the latest and current combat techniques etc. Then for players who have already gone through a generic tutorial can skip this but 'choose' from a menu option where they wish to be 'born' in for immersion purposes can choose the 'tutorial old story version) of the chapters or be simply teleported to the wayshrine of their desired land of choice.

So what I am proposing is: (before creating a specific character)

1. Have a generic character neutral Tutorial at the beginning of the game launch that teaches basic fundamentals of the game. Gives skills required to understand the fundamentals. Also introduce the Alliances, explain what the different races are, classes are, roles are (tank, dd, healer etc), basic combat skills, Mundas, skyshards, importance of food/drink and armor choices, and attributes like magicka, stamina, health etc.

2. THEN have the player make their character with the knowledge above and it would assist them in choosing which alliance, which race, which class etc.

3. THEN have them select where to start and simplify it . a) Main Base Game storyline, and Chapter Storylines and just have the person select if they wish to have the old Tutorial version for immersion purposes or just ported right to a wayshrine.

This would give everyone I think what is really needed. People could at any time visit the 'generic character neutral' tutorial when they need a refresher. It can be updated at any time with the newest changes and not break the immersion of the game for the roleplayers. It would also give people the option in the menu after character selection to just pick Main Game, Chapters etc and then if they wish to re-do the old Tutorial for story purposes or just port to where they want.

Going forward - remove any aspect of Tutorial from any Chapter release that is so embedded in the storyline that it can't be divorced from it without causing problems.

With this solution it gives new players a real basic/neutral Tutorial that can be updated at any time without causing immersion issues. It gives more info to the new player so they can make informed choices with the character creation menu. It gives players the opportunity from the start menu to 'replay' generic tutorial for refresher. It gives role players the 'replay' nostalgia aspect of giving them a choice of revisiting the old Tutorials simply for the immersion aspect. (with disclaimer at menu screen that the combat tutorial is outdated and or missing altogether, and for an updated generalized tutorial see the generic one) It also gives players the option to skip and simply be ported to the wayshrine. It would also hopefully give the Developers more leeway to create new Chapter storylines without being hindered of having to add a Tutorial into the mix.

The above solution should
1. Reestablish what a Tutorial is (to teach fundamentals) and completely divorce it form the storyline of the Main game or Chapter.
2. Give Roleplayers - the replay factor and nostalgia of being 'born again' in those chapters if they wish to re-visit the old outdated Tutorials with the disclaimer of course before the start that the 'tutorial aspect' is outdated and do they wish to continue etc.
3. Give players an opportunity to revisit the generic Tutorial from main menu, for combat or game refresher without breaking immersion.
4. Give a foundation for Developers to add to the Generic Tutorial with Dungeon and Trial foundations etc or any updated content fundamentals,. Completely separate from the main storylines once again without breaking immersion.
5. Give the Developers more freedom of creating a more immersive storyline for each chapter without being hindered with re-creating tutorials over and over again and re-creating this nostalgia-loop that keeps occurring.

For this PTS cycle as this new Tutorial is already made and time is a factor, keep things the way they are with some adjustments as I do think this is a step in the right direction but needs tweaking:

1. Change those starter portals as I mentioned above to direct the player to the Hooded Figure in Davon's Watch, Daggerfall and Auridon. (Ensure the 'new player' understands which one of these matches their Alliance as many new players have no idea what Alliance they selected). Maybe label them by Alliance rather then actual location because it really is an Alliance starter quest/main quest hybrid situation. However indicate this is also intertwined with the Main Quest line. (option to explore other Allilances is given in Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold already)

2. For the Chapter portals - if two end points can be given (choice 1 - just wayshrine or choice 2 old Tutorial) then this would help pacify those that want the old nostalgia. If only one end point can be given - then for this year keep it how it is and possibly look at options to address this next year when more time allows for the development side.

3. Please for new brand new players and for disability accessibility, please remove that blue oval graphic from the combat tutorial as it creates unnecessary eyestrain and is very obstructive.

4. Going forward next year completely divorce any future Tutorials from any new Chapters by having a generalized Tutorial as I mentioned and detailed in my previous post.

Serenez wrote: »

The issue here is that people are all missing the point of what a Tutorial is actually for.

Ok so we re-name all the others to something other than a tutorial. Which should be pretty easy since I don't think anything in the game uses the name tutorial except for the box at the begining offering you the choice of skipping it.

The point remains the same: these instanced quests are designed to introduce players to not just to the absolute most basic aspects of combat (which is all the tutorial elements cover - how to equip a weapon, light attack, heavy attack, block and interrupt and that you should follow up a block or interrupt with a heavy attack) but also to introduce them to the story of each area which has an introduction.

It may have been created because they needed a tutorial, but after that decision was made it was designed to include the first steps of the main storyline. Having a tutorial somewhere else does not change the fact that the story needs an introduction. You wouldn't say someone can skip the first 10 minutes of a movie because you're certain they already understand how movies work and will know how to sit and watch the rest of it.

We've already seen this with Coldharbour. When they added the Morrowind tutorial they still left in the previous tutorial in the form of an instanced quest with the tutorial elements removed because they understood that the main story would make absolutely no sense whatsoever if you didn't go through that part of it. But then they started creating the same problem in other areas of the game by creating introductions to other storylines and then making it impossible to access them.

Ok. So.

I just tried out the tutorial and picked Western Skyrim as my starting place.

It played the cinematic where you're on a wagon and get attacked by witches and stuff. So that was cool.

But then....it just dumps me right outside Deepwood Vale. With no explanation. Not even a quest marker. Not even a quest marker to tell me to go to Solitude. Absolutely no guidance whatsoever.

Now, if I were a new player, this would be INCREDIBLY CONFUSING.

Some of the questions I would immediately think:

"What happened to the witches that attacked me? What was that cinematic all about?"

"Why am I in the middle of nowhere?"

But most importantly: "Where in the heck do I go from here??"

Because literally there is no way to know that you're supposed to go to Solitude to start the main quest for the area.

I loved the old tutorial quests, and I would love to have them back. In spite of this, I can understand why some people would think it's better if new players didn't get confused with a different tutorial each chapter...I can understand why some people would want them to streamline the tutorial so that it's less confusing. (I disagree and still want the old tutorials back, but I can at least understand the argument)

....This is not streamlined. This is even MORE confusing than before. At least back when they had chapter tutorials, they always led you to the start of the Main Quest for the zone.

New players are just gonna get lost out in the wilderness by the Deepwood Vale when they start out. Or lost right next to the Adeptorium if they start off in Elsweyr. And so on and so forth.

Couple this with the fact that you can choose the starter islands instead of the main cities (see the arguments of people before me saying that this makes no sense), and it just feels like this new tutorial was sloppily put together.

Bug report:

Also, when talking to the NPC she says one of the portals goes to "Bal Foyen" for the Ebonheart Pact line.

That is not true. A portal goes to Bleakrock Island, which eventually leads the player to Bal Foyen. There's no portal directly to Bal Foyen anywhere.