(ZOS is missing the point) Let us choose our tutorial quest not just starting location

Lyserus

Easy and simple:
if you have several dlc that were previously chapter (therefore having unique tutorial quest and starting location ), we should be able to choose which tutorial to do and land in different starting zone based on it

There should be a large indicator of which tutorial is the newest chapter (since ZOS cares about that very much), and each tutorial option should have a small paragraph of introduction of what is this tutorial quest is about and where are you landing after the tutorial

the current implementation is that you still HAVE to do the newest tutorial, and you ended up in a portal room, where you can choose your starting location.

The thing is:
1. you cannot do the old chapter tutorials. In the example of West skyrim, you see the cinematic where you are attacked and kidnapped by vampires, but then you end up in front of the crypt with no explanations at all. It's extremely confusing
2.There is no Cold harbour starting location

The reason this (choose tutorial and starting location) is requested so frequently is mostly due to role play reasons (I make a khajiit, I want it home in elsweyr etc), the current implementation does not provide that

If ZOS really want most new players to land in newest zone, like I said, make a big sign "newest chapter" which larger icon for the newest tutorial

please consider deliver this suggestion to the development team, @ZOS @ZOS_GinaBruno , many thanks!

EDIT: on PTS the implementation is just like what the early access people said, which is sad

Lyserus

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ on mobile devices is a bit fishy

Lyserus

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

voice your opinion and keep the post up

Elsonso

Nay, I'm good with just choosing starting location but not tutorial quest

Nope. I want them to make a tutorial quest and then stick with it. No more new tutorial quests each Chapter. One tutorial quest to rule them all.

Starlock

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

Wait... the new tutorial thing isn't going to let us do this? Wuh... wut? That can't be right. If it is, then what the heck is the point?

amapola76

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

Elsonso wrote: »

Nope. I want them to make a tutorial quest and then stick with it. No more new tutorial quests each Chapter. One tutorial quest to rule them all.

Fair enough going forward with future chapters. But it's a little weird and annoying that they have already spent a considerable amount of time and money to create the existing tutorial quests, some of which are quite enjoyable to many of us, and yet they will never again be accessible.

Hurbster

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

Say you are a new player and you finish your intro quest in Greymoor. What indication do you have to go and speak to the hooded figure?

tomofhyrule

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

I have a feeling that anyone who wants to just 'get on with the game' will just skip the tutorial. I can't see why anyone would want to replay the tutorial quest for anything but roleplay reasons.

Which means it's hurting nobody to make this an option.

I really wouldn't mind if they just let us go to another zone tutorial after the Balfiera one. Just get that tutorial done, then when you go through the portal to e.g. Vvardenfell, you get the option of going straight to Seyda Neen or to the boat on the Inner Sea which is soon beset by slavers. Who cares if Naryu gives me another (less comprehensive) combat tutorial after I do the one on Balfiera? I want the story with Eoki that we won't ever get back!

The only change that they'd need to make to the old tutorials is to remove the skill point from the reward since it'll be on the Balfiera tutorial. Heck, they could even take the XP away for all I care, but I do miss the older quests. Especially since so many had now-unaccessible locations and lines they paid the VAs for. Greymoor's even set up plot and started to teach the Harrowstorm mechanics of 'kill the pikes' (which may not have been effective enough considering the number of people I see attacking the bosses and ignoring the pikes).

I'm all in for adding the old tutorial quests to the portal room!

ThorianB

There is already going to be a reworked tutorial in the chapter drop. Everyone will get a generic tutorial that teaches you basics and once completed you will end up in a sort of portal room. You then get to choose what area you get to start in. Many people have been asking to be able to at least pick starting location for a while now and they finally did it. So you only have to wait until june to get your tutorial rework.

tomofhyrule

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

ThorianB wrote: »

There is already going to be a reworked tutorial in the chapter drop. Everyone will get a generic tutorial that teaches you basics and once completed you will end up in a sort of portal room. You then get to choose what area you get to start in. Many people have been asking to be able to at least pick starting location for a while now and they finally did it. So you only have to wait until june to get your tutorial rework.

The point isn't going to any starting location - we can already do that by visiting a wayshrine at the end of any tutorial quest already. The point is that the old tutorial quests (Broken Bonds, The Mind Trap, Bright Moons Warm Sands, Bound in Blood) are permanently unavailable with every new chapter, along with the dialogue and interior locations for these places. Some people want to replay those, not to learn how to play, but to replay the quests for RP purposes.

If I wanted to just get in and play the game, I'd make a character and 'skip tutorial' and then wayshrine wherever. What I, and others, wanted was to be able to go back and do the tutorial quest with Naryu where we were captured on a slave ship despite already having a Chapter after Morrowind. What we're getting is not at all what many people were hoping for - it's just another different tutorial which now permanently locks Deepwood Vale/Deepwood Redoubt/Hag's End and the dialogue with Fennorian in exchange to shortcut us to the wayshrine afterwards.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

Okay. Each tutorial quest needs to be available in the order in which the events occur chronologically within the game.

Prisoner in Coldharbour first, and so forth.

And, yes. The skill point needs to be available in each one.

Yeah, I said it.

Sylvermynx

As usual..... Other.

I'm not interested at this point in any given tutorial. I just want to get to the "opening" setup. I will run a character or so through Balfiera (because that's going to be really cool for me, since I've played TES from Arena release). But at that point it will depend on a given character's backstory whether I do any of the offered quest lines - or whether I go rogue.

By this time (three years in) I'm inclined to go my own way. I'm.... one of "those" I guess - the one who gives the devs the evil eye and says "Yeah yeah - you think it's YOUR game. But I pay you to play it... So.... IT'S MY GAME".

That's how I like it. I do my thing. I don't do the MQ on every character. I don't do the faction MQ on anyone mostly since I don't have any use for the whole faction thing. I never do pvp. I'm unlikely to mess with the companions. If the devs are bent on nerfing my dps to force me to mess with companions.... well.... not going to work. I'll find a way. I'm flexible. Kind of like a belly dancer....

I guess you can say.... I'm a renegade. But hey, the devs should love me anyway since I pay for ESO+ on two accounts, and I just set up a third which I'll sub on as well when I get things ready to go.

Tandor

I'm fine with the option being made available, but I've no particular interest in using it for myself. Some of my many characters have done the tutorial quest appropriate to their starting location, some have skipped it. It's as handy a way of starting the game as any other but it's not essential. I tend then to head off to the tutorial zones from the base game and visit all the skyshards and treasure chests to get some trainee gear before deciding where they're going to adventure. Most critically, of course, they take their time. I play the game at my own pace with no regard to levelling, that just happens as I play.

Destai

Nay, I'm good with just choosing starting location but not tutorial quest

I like the possibility of leveraging the new tutorial zone. This is their chance to get tutorials right, and making tutorials a choose-your-own-adventure just adds more scope for a fleeting experience. That new tutorial hub is a powerful little zone - if done right. One unified experience with it scaling with each release.

Now if they were smart, they'd also allow pre-existing characters to go to that tutorial zone. Treat it like a universal Inn that gets a new portal each expansion, annoying prologue NPCs are standing by the portal for the subsequent expansion content. Give players a room in that room so we can teleport back to it.

My use case is I have 9 characters, and on some of them I've done the main story, some I haven't. I'd love to go back to this tutorial zone, pick a new path. Of course, this zone should also be used to equip characters, old and new alike, with the guild lines, crafting certs, and organized access to the prologues. I also salivate at the chance to have Stuga and similar annoying NPCs confined to an extraplanar realm, but I doubt ZOS is listening to my well-reasoned feedback.

ThorianB

tomofhyrule wrote: »

show previous quotes

ThorianB wrote: »

There is already going to be a reworked tutorial in the chapter drop. Everyone will get a generic tutorial that teaches you basics and once completed you will end up in a sort of portal room. You then get to choose what area you get to start in. Many people have been asking to be able to at least pick starting location for a while now and they finally did it. So you only have to wait until june to get your tutorial rework.

The point isn't going to any starting location - we can already do that by visiting a wayshrine at the end of any tutorial quest already. The point is that the old tutorial quests (Broken Bonds, The Mind Trap, Bright Moons Warm Sands, Bound in Blood) are permanently unavailable with every new chapter, along with the dialogue and interior locations for these places. Some people want to replay those, not to learn how to play, but to replay the quests for RP purposes.

If I wanted to just get in and play the game, I'd make a character and 'skip tutorial' and then wayshrine wherever. What I, and others, wanted was to be able to go back and do the tutorial quest with Naryu where we were captured on a slave ship despite already having a Chapter after Morrowind. What we're getting is not at all what many people were hoping for - it's just another different tutorial which now permanently locks Deepwood Vale/Deepwood Redoubt/Hag's End and the dialogue with Fennorian in exchange to shortcut us to the wayshrine afterwards.

You are assuming the rework won't let you do that. All we know at this time is that you get a basic tutorial and then you can use a portal to start at any place you want. Since, as you pointed out, we can just port to whatever chapters we own anyway, one would have to assume that all of this extra work was so that you get a basic tutorial and then the option to skip or drop in the tutorial of your choice. But we will just have to see.

Inval1d

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

So much this.

Right now you're skipping crucial parts of the story lines for new characters. Skips Wailing Prisons, means you already freed the Prophet, but how and when.

Skips Firemoth Island, means you will be in Seyda Neen, in the census office and people will be calling on you for saving some slaves, but when did that happens? In the part of the game ZOS choose to remove

Just rework the "tutorial" quests making it a non-tutorial, like Wailing Prisons after talking to the Benefactor, and let the players start from there or skip it if they want.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom let the devs know this is half of what we wanted.

tomofhyrule

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

Inval1d wrote: »

So much this.

Right now you're skipping crucial parts of the story lines for new characters. Skips Wailing Prisons, means you already freed the Prophet, but how and when.

Skips Firemoth Island, means you will be in Seyda Neen, in the census office and people will be calling on you for saving some slaves, but when did that happens? In the part of the game ZOS choose to remove

Just rework the "tutorial" quests making it a non-tutorial, like Wailing Prisons after talking to the Benefactor, and let the players start from there or skip it if they want.

[snip] let the devs know this is half of what we wanted.

I would argue that those are the two that are most integrated...

Let's face it - Soul Shriven in Coldharbour is a really bad tutorial in the first place. Fortunately whichever tutorial you take will still allow you to play it through. I did feel awkward starting out that I had to go somewhere to pick it up, but I'm okay with that now.

As for Firemoth, Morrowind is actually set up with mutually exclusive quests there - Broken Bonds is the tutorial that starts with your character getting caught by slavers and ends up with you and Naryu escaping them and making it to Seyda Neen. For any characters who didn't do that tutorial quest, you can instead do Breaking Through the Fog, where you find out about the slavers on Firemoth and then go to disrupt their operations. You are still permanently locked off from the Firemoth complex since you only fight on the beach.

As for the other tutorials, there's no equivalent. You're just locked off of that content permanently.

I have a character I'd love to start by breaking free of slavers for his story. However, all I can do with him is have him save others, not be an escaped slave himself. I'd love to just be able to redo those tutorial quests at will - I'll admit that the newer tutorials are better and more comprehensive, but I would have absolutely zero problem with finishing the Balfiera tutorial and then getting warped to the ship on the Inner Sea instead of Seyda Neen. All they'd need to do would make the original tutorials be other 'warp here' starter sites as well. True, they'd need to get rid of the extra rewards (skill point and the starter equipment box, or better yet reward that stuff from the Balfiera tutorial once you warp so if you choose to go to a different tutorial you'll get the rewards there.)

Iccotak

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

Elsonso wrote: »

Nope. I want them to make a tutorial quest and then stick with it. No more new tutorial quests each Chapter. One tutorial quest to rule them all.

Put it this way

Like Coldharbour intro

Old tutorials become introducing stories for the chapter you pick.

The “tutorial” is removed but the introduction is still there.

Going forward every chapter has an “Introduction” that the player can choose to start in.

cheriella

Nay, I'm good with just choosing starting location but not tutorial quest

Realized I screwed up cus it put me in Greymoor when I bought the game last month and I died alottt with the harrowstorns. Would’ve been nice to know that could’ve started in a starter zone

Elsonso

Nay, I'm good with just choosing starting location but not tutorial quest

ThorianB wrote: »

You are assuming the rework won't let you do that. All we know at this time is that you get a basic tutorial and then you can use a portal to start at any place you want. Since, as you pointed out, we can just port to whatever chapters we own anyway, one would have to assume that all of this extra work was so that you get a basic tutorial and then the option to skip or drop in the tutorial of your choice. But we will just have to see.

Nah. I fully expect that this will end up just being a portal to the alliance starting location. The rework would not be to create a quest leading from the lobby to the starting location. It would be to create the lobby. If you skip the tutorial, my guess is that you just end up in the lobby and can pick the portal to whatever starting location you want.

Iccotak wrote: »

show previous quotes

Elsonso wrote: »

Nope. I want them to make a tutorial quest and then stick with it. No more new tutorial quests each Chapter. One tutorial quest to rule them all.

Going forward every chapter has an “Introduction” that the player can choose to start in.

I would like the standard tutorial, same one each chapter, updated as needed, then when you pick the chapter from the tutorial exit "lobby", you get the introductory quest for the chapter.

I don't think that is what is happening here, though. I guess we find out Monday.

blktauna

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

I love Moth Island and would love to continue to have access to it. Same for the rest of the previous intro/tutorial areas. The areas are beautiful and I'd like to see the ones from before I joined.

phantasmalD

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

I just think that it's a huge shame that all these cool little locations will forever become inaccessible.
Like the boat ride to Morrowind was so neatly put together but now no one will ever be able to experience it again.
Or escaping K'Tora's mind trap or exploring Star Haven Adeptorium.

And not just that these were really atmospheric gems but they also had some cool lore tidbits and setup events for the chapter. It's just a massive waste to cut them entirely, especially after having already spent a lot of resources on creating them in the first place.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

phantasmalD wrote: »

I just think that it's a huge shame that all these cool little locations will forever become inaccessible.
Like the boat ride to Morrowind was so neatly put together but now no one will ever be able to experience it again.
Or escaping K'Tora's mind trap or exploring Star Haven Adeptorium.

And not just that these were really atmospheric gems but they also had some cool lore tidbits and setup events for the chapter. It's just a massive waste to cut them entirely, especially after having already spent a lot of resources on creating them in the first place.

Couldn't have said it better.

tomofhyrule

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

ThorianB wrote: »

show previous quotes

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

There is already going to be a reworked tutorial in the chapter drop. Everyone will get a generic tutorial that teaches you basics and once completed you will end up in a sort of portal room. You then get to choose what area you get to start in. Many people have been asking to be able to at least pick starting location for a while now and they finally did it. So you only have to wait until june to get your tutorial rework.

The point isn't going to any starting location - we can already do that by visiting a wayshrine at the end of any tutorial quest already. The point is that the old tutorial quests (Broken Bonds, The Mind Trap, Bright Moons Warm Sands, Bound in Blood) are permanently unavailable with every new chapter, along with the dialogue and interior locations for these places. Some people want to replay those, not to learn how to play, but to replay the quests for RP purposes.

If I wanted to just get in and play the game, I'd make a character and 'skip tutorial' and then wayshrine wherever. What I, and others, wanted was to be able to go back and do the tutorial quest with Naryu where we were captured on a slave ship despite already having a Chapter after Morrowind. What we're getting is not at all what many people were hoping for - it's just another different tutorial which now permanently locks Deepwood Vale/Deepwood Redoubt/Hag's End and the dialogue with Fennorian in exchange to shortcut us to the wayshrine afterwards.

You are assuming the rework won't let you do that. All we know at this time is that you get a basic tutorial and then you can use a portal to start at any place you want. Since, as you pointed out, we can just port to whatever chapters we own anyway, one would have to assume that all of this extra work was so that you get a basic tutorial and then the option to skip or drop in the tutorial of your choice. But we will just have to see.

We know it's just a port. The people who got an early access have already confirmed this:

There’s a new tutorial, as usual for a new Chapter, but they are doing something interesting this time around. After completing the new tutorial and learning the basics of gameplay (As well as some interesting new Direnni lore), you’ll enter a portal room.

From there, you can decide where in Tamriel you want to start your journey. If you want to do the main story first, you can go to your faction homeland (or any of the other alliances if you like). If you prefer something newer, you can start off in any of the Chapter starting zones as well.

However, this doesn’t mean you will get to play any of the older tutorials. For now, it’s only this one,

https://blog.uesp.net/blackwood-preview-early-access/

We'll see tomorrow on PTS, but based on the early access people, it's not giving us the old tutorial areas or quests as options.

Crazyprophet

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

Let us choose which one, 100%. I thought that was the whole point of the new Direnni Tower thing

tim99

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

also, lets do character which were created before the chapter-thing do at least one tutorial quest, as they are missing the skillpoint.

inB4 someone wants to explain that there are more than enough skillpoints to get... its about completion. USPF shows all available skillpoints, and chars before morrowind have no chance to get the 100%

Darkstorne

Here's the thing.

If they're doing some minor reworks for the older tutorial areas to remove the tutorial bits (here's how combat works etc) like they did for the Coldharbour intro years ago, then this would be amazing. The new tutorial would be the only tutorial, forever, and then you choose your character's story intro (Coldharbour, escaping with Naryu, fighting a dragon, wagon to Skyrim etc) and we'd get the intros we're looking for without the dull tutorial parts. And of course, include an option to simply start straight up in your faction capital to skip the story options entirely.

Without those reworks though, it would be two tutorials in a row, which no-one wants. And I know one option there is not including the new tutorial at all, but there is value to be found in a single shared tutorial for all new players. Because if the tutorial section needs to be updated in the future, that's only one tutorial to update rather than several.

We'll have to see how they implement it though, because indeed, if all they're doing is letting you choose your exit location, skipping the story part of the older tutorial areas, then they're missing the point entirely and asking for this meme to show up all over the forums:

DukeCybran

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

I'd like a quest-replay system where you can choose what mission to play after completing a questline, tutorials included.

And yes. Tutorial quests are fun, thus additional character slots are sold to players like us who want to explore every crook and cranny on every quest.

tomofhyrule

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

Darkstorne wrote: »

Here's the thing.

If they're doing some minor reworks for the older tutorial areas to remove the tutorial bits (here's how combat works etc) like they did for the Coldharbour intro years ago, then this would be amazing. The new tutorial would be the only tutorial, forever, and then you choose your character's story intro (Coldharbour, escaping with Naryu, fighting a dragon, wagon to Skyrim etc) and we'd get the intros we're looking for without the dull tutorial parts. And of course, include an option to simply start straight up in your faction capital to skip the story options entirely.

Without those reworks though, it would be two tutorials in a row, which no-one wants. And I know one option there is not including the new tutorial at all, but there is value to be found in a single shared tutorial for all new players. Because if the tutorial section needs to be updated in the future, that's only one tutorial to update rather than several.

We'll have to see how they implement it though, because indeed, if all they're doing is letting you choose your exit location, skipping the story part of the older tutorial areas, then they're missing the point entirely and asking for this meme to show up all over the forums:

Speak for yourself.

If the 'cost' for getting to RP through an old tutorial is to have Naryu teach me how to fight again, that's perfectly fine. That's actually what I'd expect if they did it this way. All they'd need to do would be to remove the skill point from the rewards for the 'second' tutorial quest.

...wouldn't mind the 'Soul Magic' skill line also going exclusively to Soul Shriven in Coldharbour since that doesn't make sense getting it from Naryu or Fenn, but meh...

Anyway, most people who want to just get on with the game will skip it anyway and jump straight to the portal room and then wayshrine directly to the zone. The only people who would want to go back to Deepwood or Firemoth instead would be the ones who want to RP a tutorial quest, and the 'combat tutorial' will take up all of a minute worth of time. Not an issue in my mind.

Lyserus

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

on PTS the implementation is just like what the early access people said, which is sad

ZOS please hear us
keep the post up people!

Inval1d

Aye, let us choose our tutorial quest

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Quests
Elsweyr Tutorial: Changed the position of a Euraxian soldier in Star Haven Adeptorium to make their corpse-searching less suggestive.

This was on the patch notes. Is the new tutorial only available if you own Blackwood then? Otherwise, why did they bother changing this if this tutorial won't be playable anymore?