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Normal and Veteran Overland
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep it civil and constructive please:
My idea from closed thread:
We increase the overall difficulty of overland, we don't create vet zones and we introduce a new optional buff (not like level scaling which is mandatory). New buff is strong enough that players who use it will not feel any difference in strength of overland opponents. This solution does not require instantiation and does not require re-logging. You can use and remove the buff at any time. Do you feel that your opponents are too much of a challenge for you? Turn on the buff and the problem is over.
Edit (on a side note, buff can be added to mementos or something like that and as it was suggested by someone else, it could have few strenght levels, allowing for easier adjusting difficulty).
Advantages of the solution.
1. no instantiation.
2. possibility to play together even in the same group of players expecting a challenge and those who just want to go through the content without any problems.
3. if new players feel bored they can try the challenge at any time without worrying about losing quest progression etc.
To be considered is whether or not we want to add to the buff, penalty to XP and gold for killing enemies. Before you look at it from the perspective of "Definitely not because it forces you not to use the buff" consider the implications of such an approach. The lack of a penalty to XP and gold means that veterans can turn on the buff and grind on spots with even greater ease, increasing their advantage.
The penalty to XP and Gold could only apply from (just a suggestion) 600CP and increase as new CPs are gained. This way it is the veterans who are more encouraged not to use the buff while new players can play unchanged without worrying about anything. But as I said, this is only a proposal and it would be up for debate whether such a debuff is needed at all.Edited by Mayrael on April 16, 2021 1:15PMSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It can not happen. It would basically require to have separate zone or the only way is to mix it up with Craglron time of region. Tis "Very easy" because they made it ever since Tamriel unlimited was launched and now to have by default a class that blaze through almost anything including World boss,Veteran dungeon even is absurd to put it very lightly and honestly.
It's saddening I have my sorcerer not even close enough to be called overpowered yet I feel Demi God, Landscape content was "messed up" to accomodate to greater player-base and I do not want to use word casual , but more freedom and friendly approach than frustration, but they went to extreme, Any experienced player will know how laughable later foes become, that's not the point ultimately there thousand more ways and reason for you to play Elder scrolls online, its not all about difficulty.
There are so many quests,little things to discover and beauties that will take years to finish, I would not worry about Overland. Players are not being creative enough and making most of game, trying finishing off every single quest there is explore all, I ma currenyl on break and when I return I will feel I barely even started.
I without offence believe a lot of players do not realise how impossibly giganitc game is and has to offer and they complain, for even above average player with time on his /her hands there is years of content to complete alone just story and quests,explortation can easiyl take several years of your life , how many players can say they finised off every single quest there is so far ,read all books and talked to every NPC , there is one way to do it, but do you care enough to learn something about lore, it all depends what we want
The problem is that questing is not fun because all the enemies are basically all the same difficulty, and none of them are that difficult.
Even as a fresh character with no CP or assistance.
Sure it has hundreds of hours of quest content, but it’s gameplay is not engaging. There isn’t any kind of enemy hierarchy like there was in Skyrim.
There’s no difficulty slider to change things up.
There is very little risk or danger when exploring the zones.
Enemies have bare minimum attacks.
The Main Story is not worth getting excited about when the main bad guy has barebones basic mechanics and can be beaten with ease.
There is no “Lich King” expansion.
Endgame content is great, decent stories as well as great combat.
It’s the gameplay in the rest of the game I have issue with.
—————————————————
EditedEdited by Iccotak on April 16, 2021 1:27PM2 -
Abelon✭✭✭✭✭I am a hundred percent for some version of more difficult overland/bosses, whatever. But this thread is going downhill fast, maybe it should get closed already.
I mean from what I can tell it can be annoying of having to clarify a point like - “We aren’t asking for Old Craglorn and that zone failed for more reasons than difficulty”
Yet old Craglorn is always brought up by the same 1-3 people as a valid counter argument when it’s not.
It’s also frustrating when it feels like some people deliberately misrepresent what your saying - or start throwing accusations that those advocating have some underhanded goal.
But you’re right, we should aim for a civil discussion.
I absolutely understand what you are saying. I feel the same way. Some people put zero effort into the discussion and keep on repeating the same arguments even though those arguments aren't even relevant. For already explained reasons. Then there is the obvious baiting from some. Then others can't keep their cool.
At least somebody needs to be reasonable.Edited by Abelon on April 16, 2021 1:30PM2 -
Daraklus✭✭✭✭I am a hundred percent for some version of more difficult overland/bosses, whatever. But this thread is going downhill fast, maybe it should get closed already.
I mean from what I can tell it can be annoying of having to clarify a point like - “We aren’t asking for Old Craglorn and that zone failed for more reasons than difficulty”
Yet old Craglorn is always brought up by the same 1-3 people as a valid counter argument when it’s not.
It’s also frustrating when it feels like some people deliberately misrepresent what your saying - or start throwing accusations that those advocating have some underhanded goal.
But you’re right, we should aim for a civil discussion.
[snip]
I will say it again: Veteran Zones were not a "Failure" because of difficulty. They were a "Failure" because they split the playerbase apart too much and the leveling process was that of a typical MMO, when players jumped in expecting an Elder Scrolls experience. People expected Elder Scrolls freedom to go where ever and play with their friends, what they got was being split apart from their mates who picked a different faction, while also having to level in a linear progression.
I can guarantee, if I were part of the forums back then, I would defend the Veteran Zones' difficulty to the death, while being in agreement that the playerbase being torn apart from each other was indeed not a great Elder Scrolls experience.
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 16, 2021 3:39PM2 -
Arbit✭✭✭✭I don’t like the idea of splitting the newer players from the veteran players in overland. Interesting as the idea may be it just wouldn’t be worth the division. I wouldn’t mind if they had a veteran and normal difficulty for expansion quest lines, because they are instanced and I’d like for a big dragon boss like in the elsweyr expansion to be epic. It’d be cool to maybe even need help with the bosses.Argonian Master Race
3 -
Abelon✭✭✭✭✭It can not happen. It would basically require to have separate zone or the only way is to mix it up with Craglron time of region. Tis "Very easy" because they made it ever since Tamriel unlimited was launched and now to have by default a class that blaze through almost anything including World boss,Veteran dungeon even is absurd to put it very lightly and honestly.
It's saddening I have my sorcerer not even close enough to be called overpowered yet I feel Demi God, Landscape content was "messed up" to accomodate to greater player-base and I do not want to use word casual , but more freedom and friendly approach than frustration, but they went to extreme, Any experienced player will know how laughable later foes become, that's not the point ultimately there thousand more ways and reason for you to play Elder scrolls online, its not all about difficulty.
There are so many quests,little things to discover and beauties that will take years to finish, I would not worry about Overland. Players are not being creative enough and making most of game, trying finishing off every single quest there is explore all, I ma currenyl on break and when I return I will feel I barely even started.
I without offence believe a lot of players do not realise how impossibly giganitc game is and has to offer and they complain, for even above average player with time on his /her hands there is years of content to complete alone just story and quests,explortation can easiyl take several years of your life , how many players can say they finised off every single quest there is so far ,read all books and talked to every NPC , there is one way to do it, but do you care enough to learn something about lore, it all depends what we want
The problem is that questing is not fun because all the enemies are basically all the same difficulty, and none of them are that difficult.
Even as a fresh character with no CP or assistance.
Sure it has hundreds of hours of quest content, but it’s gameplay is not engaging. There isn’t any kind of enemy hierarchy like there was in Skyrim.
There’s no difficulty slider to change things up.
There is very little risk or danger when exploring the zones.
Enemies have bare minimum attacks.
The Main Story is not worth getting excited about when the main bad guy has barebones basic mechanics and can be beaten with ease.
There is no “Lich King” expansion.
Endgame content is great, decent stories as well as great combat.
It’s the gameplay in the rest of the game I have issue with.
—————————————————
Edited
I have tried to do what so many people suggest. Taking off op gear happens naturally on new characters. Not slotting CP as well. Not grinding for levels, etc. It changes nothing.
Even just clicking light attack on a character like that still works. You'll just have to keep your distance from melee enemies or break line of sight to ranged mobs. The most that happens is that fighting becomes tedious. I don't want tedious. I want fun.
I want to buy the next chapter and have fun killing the boss. But I'm sure I've said all of that already, if not in this thread then in another. So many people have the same experience as you and me. Most of them just leave silently though. I feel like many consider arguments over challenge to be useless. The reason why can, once again, be seen in threads such as this one.2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don’t like the idea of splitting the newer players from the veteran players in overland. Interesting as the idea may be it just wouldn’t be worth the division. I wouldn’t mind if they had a veteran and normal difficulty for expansion quest lines, because they are instanced and I’d like for a big dragon boss like in the elsweyr expansion to be epic. It’d be cool to maybe even need help with the bosses.
I would be largely satisfied if ZOS could make Normal/Veteran Main Story with Engaging Boss Fights that live up to the hype.6 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭I am a hundred percent for some version of more difficult overland/bosses, whatever. But this thread is going downhill fast, maybe it should get closed already.
I mean from what I can tell it can be annoying of having to clarify a point like - “We aren’t asking for Old Craglorn and that zone failed for more reasons than difficulty”
Yet old Craglorn is always brought up by the same 1-3 people as a valid counter argument when it’s not.
It’s also frustrating when it feels like some people deliberately misrepresent what your saying - or start throwing accusations that those advocating have some underhanded goal.
But you’re right, we should aim for a civil discussion.
What is worse is when.... Actually, I won't discuss that part.
I would be more than willing to discuss this peacefully, but it really feels like that there are a select few people who simply don't want to, and just want to shoot down any proposals, discussions or points brought up, with the kind of talking points that you'd see people running Veteran Raids and Dungeons bring up when they don't want to have a civil discussion about something.
I will say it again: Veteran Zones were not a "Failure" because of difficulty. They were a "Failure" because they split the playerbase apart too much and the leveling process was that of a typical MMO, when players jumped in expecting an Elder Scrolls experience. People expected Elder Scrolls freedom to go where ever and play with their friends, what they got was being split apart from their mates who picked a different faction, while also having to level in a linear progression.
I can guarantee, if I were part of the forums back then, I would defend the Veteran Zones' difficulty to the death, while being in agreement that the playerbase being torn apart from each other was indeed not a great Elder Scrolls experience.
I think the real reason Vet Craglorn and even old Cadwell quests were unpopular was because Zos was trying to enfore grouping for overland content. Originally (way back in the beta times) the end quest boss for Stonefalls was designed to be a group encounter.
Players outleveled the fight, found exploits or presumably just complained at the devs until the fight was adjusted.
The issue was even worse with old Crag, the size of the enemy groups and the overall difficulty was all tuned to grouping up. If I'm going thru a story, I want to go at my own pace. Most people probably are the same.
TL;DR Enforced grouping in overland - bad. Optional harder overland - good. Optional harder instanced fights so story has some weight and isn't a giant fluff fest - Great6 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭It can not happen. It would basically require to have separate zone or the only way is to mix it up with Craglron time of region. Tis "Very easy" because they made it ever since Tamriel unlimited was launched and now to have by default a class that blaze through almost anything including World boss,Veteran dungeon even is absurd to put it very lightly and honestly.
It's saddening I have my sorcerer not even close enough to be called overpowered yet I feel Demi God, Landscape content was "messed up" to accomodate to greater player-base and I do not want to use word casual , but more freedom and friendly approach than frustration, but they went to extreme, Any experienced player will know how laughable later foes become, that's not the point ultimately there thousand more ways and reason for you to play Elder scrolls online, its not all about difficulty.
There are so many quests,little things to discover and beauties that will take years to finish, I would not worry about Overland. Players are not being creative enough and making most of game, trying finishing off every single quest there is explore all, I ma currenyl on break and when I return I will feel I barely even started.
I without offence believe a lot of players do not realise how impossibly giganitc game is and has to offer and they complain, for even above average player with time on his /her hands there is years of content to complete alone just story and quests,explortation can easiyl take several years of your life , how many players can say they finised off every single quest there is so far ,read all books and talked to every NPC , there is one way to do it, but do you care enough to learn something about lore, it all depends what we want
The problem is that questing is not fun because all the enemies are basically all the same difficulty, and none of them are that difficult.
Even as a fresh character with no CP or assistance.
Sure it has hundreds of hours of quest content, but it’s gameplay is not engaging. There isn’t any kind of enemy hierarchy like there was in Skyrim.
There’s no difficulty slider to change things up.
There is very little risk or danger when exploring the zones.
Enemies have bare minimum attacks.
The Main Story is not worth getting excited about when the main bad guy has barebones basic mechanics and can be beaten with ease.
There is no “Lich King” expansion.
Endgame content is great, decent stories as well as great combat.
It’s the gameplay in the rest of the game I have issue with.
—————————————————
Edited
Except that I saw, and mentioned it, in the last thread, or one of them anyway, a 0 CP player die to three scamps. Of course, the very first answer to that was "but it's impossible to have 0 CP"... It's not been hard for me, I could solo dolmens before CP, on a Stam NB. I solo Public Dungeons as a matter of course now. But I don't think they should be building the game to "challenge" me. Some of the people that are asking for this now would rage quit. There are people posting here that I wouldn't want to play their default difficulty. I'm good, but I don't think I'm in the "best of the best" category, here, anyway. I have been. I still didn't want story content buffed up to my level, in games where it wasn't already, such as DDO, where all the quests are instanced, and there is no OW overland content.
It was mentioned above that Vet overland had been tried, and didn't work because it split the player base. So now splitting the players is acceptable, where back then, when the game was presumably more populated, it wasn't? Or maybe they're arguing that it won't split the player base now, because time has passed? This from the same people that will say "well, games aren't for everyone". As it stands right now, more people can play in overland than can't. This is how it needs to be in an MMO, where the idea is to get people playing, and keep them playing as long as possible.
I also understand that since I do tend to play SP games on the hardest difficulties, and other people don't, that there's a skill gap between what I can do, and what others can do. I also understand that there's nothing wrong with that. I had to quit raiding because everything got way too flashy, and I have chronic migraines, and can't take it. At the end of a long raid/dungeon, I'm looking at a reverse kaleidoscope. Meaning that instead of the walls of the tube being a static color with changing patterns at the back, the back is a blinding white dot, with walls that are constantly shifting. I can't see anything else. So no, I don't want that level of interaction in my overland play. I don't want to move from one quest area to the next, only to have to log out and spend a day or so on my recliner, waiting for my head to explode, or having to call someone to take me to the ER, for my "happy shots", where for three days I still have that severe migraine, but I just don't care, because it makes me that loopy, all so someone can feel challenged in story mode.0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I will say it again: Veteran Zones were not a "Failure" because of difficulty. They were a "Failure" because they split the playerbase apart too much and the leveling process was that of a typical MMO, when players jumped in expecting an Elder Scrolls experience. People expected Elder Scrolls freedom to go where ever and play with their friends, what they got was being split apart from their mates who picked a different faction, while also having to level in a linear progression.
I can guarantee, if I were part of the forums back then, I would defend the Veteran Zones' difficulty to the death, while being in agreement that the playerbase being torn apart from each other was indeed not a great Elder Scrolls experience.
I played beta and at launch, and was following the forums back then. I know from my own experience, and from reading the experiences of others, that the difficulty was a big issue for many. I was stuck for days on one boss fight, and I wasn't the only one. Just questing overland was a struggle. There was no way to enjoy the story when all you could do was focus on staying alive. Then they introduced Craglorn and that's when I quit for a few years.
You are correct that the split playerbase was a major factor in their move to One Tamriel, and changing that was one of the best things they ever did. Creating a completely separate veteran overland would be a step backward and split the playerbase again into 2 completely different worlds.
But the difficulty was also a major issue for many and that's why the veteran overland zones were also removed with One Tamriel.Edited by SilverBride on April 16, 2021 4:45PMPCNA1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »It can not happen. It would basically require to have separate zone or the only way is to mix it up with Craglron time of region. Tis "Very easy" because they made it ever since Tamriel unlimited was launched and now to have by default a class that blaze through almost anything including World boss,Veteran dungeon even is absurd to put it very lightly and honestly.
It's saddening I have my sorcerer not even close enough to be called overpowered yet I feel Demi God, Landscape content was "messed up" to accomodate to greater player-base and I do not want to use word casual , but more freedom and friendly approach than frustration, but they went to extreme, Any experienced player will know how laughable later foes become, that's not the point ultimately there thousand more ways and reason for you to play Elder scrolls online, its not all about difficulty.
There are so many quests,little things to discover and beauties that will take years to finish, I would not worry about Overland. Players are not being creative enough and making most of game, trying finishing off every single quest there is explore all, I ma currenyl on break and when I return I will feel I barely even started.
I without offence believe a lot of players do not realise how impossibly giganitc game is and has to offer and they complain, for even above average player with time on his /her hands there is years of content to complete alone just story and quests,explortation can easiyl take several years of your life , how many players can say they finised off every single quest there is so far ,read all books and talked to every NPC , there is one way to do it, but do you care enough to learn something about lore, it all depends what we want
The problem is that questing is not fun because all the enemies are basically all the same difficulty, and none of them are that difficult.
Even as a fresh character with no CP or assistance.
Sure it has hundreds of hours of quest content, but it’s gameplay is not engaging. There isn’t any kind of enemy hierarchy like there was in Skyrim.
There’s no difficulty slider to change things up.
There is very little risk or danger when exploring the zones.
Enemies have bare minimum attacks.
The Main Story is not worth getting excited about when the main bad guy has barebones basic mechanics and can be beaten with ease.
There is no “Lich King” expansion.
Endgame content is great, decent stories as well as great combat.
It’s the gameplay in the rest of the game I have issue with.
—————————————————
Edited
Except that I saw, and mentioned it, in the last thread, or one of them anyway, a 0 CP player die to three scamps. Of course, the very first answer to that was "but it's impossible to have 0 CP"... It's not been hard for me, I could solo dolmens before CP, on a Stam NB. I solo Public Dungeons as a matter of course now. But I don't think they should be building the game to "challenge" me. Some of the people that are asking for this now would rage quit. There are people posting here that I wouldn't want to play their default difficulty. I'm good, but I don't think I'm in the "best of the best" category, here, anyway. I have been. I still didn't want story content buffed up to my level, in games where it wasn't already, such as DDO, where all the quests are instanced, and there is no OW overland content.
It was mentioned above that Vet overland had been tried, and didn't work because it split the player base. So now splitting the players is acceptable, where back then, when the game was presumably more populated, it wasn't? Or maybe they're arguing that it won't split the player base now, because time has passed? This from the same people that will say "well, games aren't for everyone". As it stands right now, more people can play in overland than can't. This is how it needs to be in an MMO, where the idea is to get people playing, and keep them playing as long as possible.
I also understand that since I do tend to play SP games on the hardest difficulties, and other people don't, that there's a skill gap between what I can do, and what others can do. I also understand that there's nothing wrong with that. I had to quit raiding because everything got way too flashy, and I have chronic migraines, and can't take it. At the end of a long raid/dungeon, I'm looking at a reverse kaleidoscope. Meaning that instead of the walls of the tube being a static color with changing patterns at the back, the back is a blinding white dot, with walls that are constantly shifting. I can't see anything else. So no, I don't want that level of interaction in my overland play. I don't want to move from one quest area to the next, only to have to log out and spend a day or so on my recliner, waiting for my head to explode, or having to call someone to take me to the ER, for my "happy shots", where for three days I still have that severe migraine, but I just don't care, because it makes me that loopy, all so someone can feel challenged in story mode.
1. When I start a new character I don’t apply champion points until they are level 50. So yes I have tested it without champion points.
2. Yes not everyone has the same gameplay experience. Hence why there is a percentage of us asking for a separate instance rather than saying that one sweeping change should be enforced on everyone.
We also understand that not everyone has the same skills or has the same desire for the same or similar gameplay experience. Which is exactly why many of us proposed a separate instance that you can choose to play.
3. If you don’t want to do the veteran instance then all the more power to you, just like the rest of the continent nobody would be forcing you to play it.
There would just be more options. You can still have the same story experience that you’re used to at this point. We’ve asked for the OPTION to have a different & challenging experience for the story. Most of us are not telling you to play our way.
4. As for splitting the player base, there is definitely a difference between what we are proposing which would split the player base only once as compared to the old system which split the player-base 9 different ways
5. If the idea is to get more people to play Overland as long as possible, then it would make sense to make that content more enjoyable for more people. Just because it is accessible doesn’t make it enjoyable.
Many of us would love to enjoy the solo questing experience again, let alone play it, but at this point it’s just not fun.
6. I am not even in the “best of the best” category. My main build has been a templar tank with minor DPS modifications, I’m actually a pretty casual player. However I still find the general combat experience especially for the main story really lacking.7 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As for splitting the player base, there is definitely a difference between what we are proposing which would split the player base only once as compared to the old system which split the player-base 9 different ways
Splitting the playerbase 9 different ways was a big mistake. Splitting the playerbase in half would also be a big mistake. A split playerbase is a bad thing, whether it's split into 2 separate worlds or 100.PCNA3 -
RupzSkooma✭✭✭✭I am 100% in the minority here.I have not touched the game myself since summerset release and figured albeit my love for this world, the game is not for me.
I would love to return if there is a veteran OW difficulty along with upcoming companion or after.Edited by RupzSkooma on April 16, 2021 5:09PMElder Kings II is a Role Playing Elder Scrolls mod for Crusader Kings III.3 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I will say it again: Veteran Zones were not a "Failure" because of difficulty. They were a "Failure" because they split the playerbase apart too much and the leveling process was that of a typical MMO, when players jumped in expecting an Elder Scrolls experience. People expected Elder Scrolls freedom to go where ever and play with their friends, what they got was being split apart from their mates who picked a different faction, while also having to level in a linear progression.
I can guarantee, if I were part of the forums back then, I would defend the Veteran Zones' difficulty to the death, while being in agreement that the playerbase being torn apart from each other was indeed not a great Elder Scrolls experience.
I played beta and at launch, and was following the forums back then. I know from my own experience, and from reading the experiences of others, that the difficulty was a big issue for many. I was stuck for days on one boss fight, and I wasn't the only one. Just questing overland was a struggle. There was no way to enjoy the story when all you could do was focus on staying alive. Then they introduced Craglorn and that's when I quit for a few years.
You are correct that the split playerbase was a major factor in their move to One Tamriel, and changing that was one of the best things they ever did. Creating a completely separate veteran overland would be a step backward and split the playerbase again into 2 completely different worlds.
But the difficulty was also a major issue for many and that's why the veteran overland zones were also removed with One Tamriel.
Pre-one Tamriel was hard because a large part of the content was geared towards encouraging group play. Solo players are bound to get hammered a bit in a group setting.
When the devs saw that wasn't working out, things got toned down. I think they have toned down too far in addition to not sufficiently accounting for player damage creep.
A lot of those in opposition to the idea of a vet overland keep setting up a false dichotomy. "You want darksouls" No, something more than we currently have would be fine. Trials are more forgiving than dark souls. "The tried that with Craglorn" No one has asked for that back. No one has asked for mandatory overland grouping.
It doesn't have to be one extreme (starter zone everywhere) or the other (mandatory tank/heals/dpsx2 party)4 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I will say it again: Veteran Zones were not a "Failure" because of difficulty. They were a "Failure" because they split the playerbase apart too much and the leveling process was that of a typical MMO, when players jumped in expecting an Elder Scrolls experience. People expected Elder Scrolls freedom to go where ever and play with their friends, what they got was being split apart from their mates who picked a different faction, while also having to level in a linear progression.
I can guarantee, if I were part of the forums back then, I would defend the Veteran Zones' difficulty to the death, while being in agreement that the playerbase being torn apart from each other was indeed not a great Elder Scrolls experience.
I played beta and at launch, and was following the forums back then. I know from my own experience, and from reading the experiences of others, that the difficulty was a big issue for many. I was stuck for days on one boss fight, and I wasn't the only one. Just questing overland was a struggle. There was no way to enjoy the story when all you could do was focus on staying alive. Then they introduced Craglorn and that's when I quit for a few years.
You are correct that the split playerbase was a major factor in their move to One Tamriel, and changing that was one of the best things they ever did. Creating a completely separate veteran overland would be a step backward and split the playerbase again into 2 completely different worlds.
But the difficulty was also a major issue for many and that's why the veteran overland zones were also removed with One Tamriel.
Pre-one Tamriel was hard because a large part of the content was geared towards encouraging group play. Solo players are bound to get hammered a bit in a group setting.
When the devs saw that wasn't working out, things got toned down. I think they have toned down too far in addition to not sufficiently accounting for player damage creep.
A lot of those in opposition to the idea of a vet overland keep setting up a false dichotomy. "You want darksouls" No, something more than we currently have would be fine. Trials are more forgiving than dark souls. "The tried that with Craglorn" No one has asked for that back. No one has asked for mandatory overland grouping.
It doesn't have to be one extreme (starter zone everywhere) or the other (mandatory tank/heals/dpsx2 party)
The base game and story need to be a difficulty that all players of all levels and playstyles can complete. It succeeds at this exactly how it is.
Of course overland will become easier for players as they gain CP, but not all of us see that a a bad thing. It is not reasonable to expect that a completely new version of the base game be created and maintained to accommodate those who are unhappy with what is merely a normal progression.PCNA1 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »It can not happen. It would basically require to have separate zone or the only way is to mix it up with Craglron time of region. Tis "Very easy" because they made it ever since Tamriel unlimited was launched and now to have by default a class that blaze through almost anything including World boss,Veteran dungeon even is absurd to put it very lightly and honestly.
It's saddening I have my sorcerer not even close enough to be called overpowered yet I feel Demi God, Landscape content was "messed up" to accomodate to greater player-base and I do not want to use word casual , but more freedom and friendly approach than frustration, but they went to extreme, Any experienced player will know how laughable later foes become, that's not the point ultimately there thousand more ways and reason for you to play Elder scrolls online, its not all about difficulty.
There are so many quests,little things to discover and beauties that will take years to finish, I would not worry about Overland. Players are not being creative enough and making most of game, trying finishing off every single quest there is explore all, I ma currenyl on break and when I return I will feel I barely even started.
I without offence believe a lot of players do not realise how impossibly giganitc game is and has to offer and they complain, for even above average player with time on his /her hands there is years of content to complete alone just story and quests,explortation can easiyl take several years of your life , how many players can say they finised off every single quest there is so far ,read all books and talked to every NPC , there is one way to do it, but do you care enough to learn something about lore, it all depends what we want
The problem is that questing is not fun because all the enemies are basically all the same difficulty, and none of them are that difficult.
Even as a fresh character with no CP or assistance.
Sure it has hundreds of hours of quest content, but it’s gameplay is not engaging. There isn’t any kind of enemy hierarchy like there was in Skyrim.
There’s no difficulty slider to change things up.
There is very little risk or danger when exploring the zones.
Enemies have bare minimum attacks.
The Main Story is not worth getting excited about when the main bad guy has barebones basic mechanics and can be beaten with ease.
There is no “Lich King” expansion.
Endgame content is great, decent stories as well as great combat.
It’s the gameplay in the rest of the game I have issue with.
—————————————————
Edited
Except that I saw, and mentioned it, in the last thread, or one of them anyway, a 0 CP player die to three scamps. Of course, the very first answer to that was "but it's impossible to have 0 CP"... It's not been hard for me, I could solo dolmens before CP, on a Stam NB. I solo Public Dungeons as a matter of course now. But I don't think they should be building the game to "challenge" me. Some of the people that are asking for this now would rage quit. There are people posting here that I wouldn't want to play their default difficulty. I'm good, but I don't think I'm in the "best of the best" category, here, anyway. I have been. I still didn't want story content buffed up to my level, in games where it wasn't already, such as DDO, where all the quests are instanced, and there is no OW overland content.
It was mentioned above that Vet overland had been tried, and didn't work because it split the player base. So now splitting the players is acceptable, where back then, when the game was presumably more populated, it wasn't? Or maybe they're arguing that it won't split the player base now, because time has passed? This from the same people that will say "well, games aren't for everyone". As it stands right now, more people can play in overland than can't. This is how it needs to be in an MMO, where the idea is to get people playing, and keep them playing as long as possible.
I also understand that since I do tend to play SP games on the hardest difficulties, and other people don't, that there's a skill gap between what I can do, and what others can do. I also understand that there's nothing wrong with that. I had to quit raiding because everything got way too flashy, and I have chronic migraines, and can't take it. At the end of a long raid/dungeon, I'm looking at a reverse kaleidoscope. Meaning that instead of the walls of the tube being a static color with changing patterns at the back, the back is a blinding white dot, with walls that are constantly shifting. I can't see anything else. So no, I don't want that level of interaction in my overland play. I don't want to move from one quest area to the next, only to have to log out and spend a day or so on my recliner, waiting for my head to explode, or having to call someone to take me to the ER, for my "happy shots", where for three days I still have that severe migraine, but I just don't care, because it makes me that loopy, all so someone can feel challenged in story mode.
1. When I start a new character I don’t apply champion points until they are level 50. So yes I have tested it without champion points.
2. Yes not everyone has the same gameplay experience. Hence why there is a percentage of us asking for a separate instance rather than saying that one sweeping change should be enforced on everyone.
We also understand that not everyone has the same skills or has the same desire for the same or similar gameplay experience. Which is exactly why many of us proposed a separate instance that you can choose to play.
3. If you don’t want to do the veteran instance then all the more power to you, just like the rest of the continent nobody would be forcing you to play it.
There would just be more options. You can still have the same story experience that you’re used to at this point. We’ve asked for the OPTION to have a different & challenging experience for the story. Most of us are not telling you to play our way.
4. As for splitting the player base, there is definitely a difference between what we are proposing which would split the player base only once as compared to the old system which split the player-base 9 different ways
5. If the idea is to get more people to play Overland as long as possible, then it would make sense to make that content more enjoyable for more people. Just because it is accessible doesn’t make it enjoyable.
Many of us would love to enjoy the solo questing experience again, let alone play it, but at this point it’s just not fun.
6. I am not even in the “best of the best” category. My main build has been a templar tank with minor DPS modifications, I’m actually a pretty casual player. However I still find the general combat experience especially for the main story really lacking.
Citations needed for "more people". It's not even overwhelmingly supported on the forums, and that's only about 15% of us, give or take a few percentage points. If it's "everyone I know", or "all my friends", thanks for feeding my Daeva of Melodrama, but that's really irrelevant, unless you can list 10s of thousands in one of those categories.0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »As for splitting the player base, there is definitely a difference between what we are proposing which would split the player base only once as compared to the old system which split the player-base 9 different ways
Splitting the playerbase 9 different ways was a big mistake. Splitting the playerbase in half would also be a big mistake. A split playerbase is a bad thing, whether it's split into 2 separate worlds or 100.
The player base is already split to some degree. We already see it here on the forums were people report that they don’t even bother with overland content anymore. Not even for one Playthrough
Edit: Also the developers have shown to not be Entirely against splitting as we see with Companions encourage solo play.
So the question isn’t “Split or no split?” rather it is “What degree of splitting is acceptable?”
I’d say a Normal/Veteran setting for the Main Story is perfectly acceptable because it’s already instanced content.SilverBride wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I will say it again: Veteran Zones were not a "Failure" because of difficulty. They were a "Failure" because they split the playerbase apart too much and the leveling process was that of a typical MMO, when players jumped in expecting an Elder Scrolls experience. People expected Elder Scrolls freedom to go where ever and play with their friends, what they got was being split apart from their mates who picked a different faction, while also having to level in a linear progression.
I can guarantee, if I were part of the forums back then, I would defend the Veteran Zones' difficulty to the death, while being in agreement that the playerbase being torn apart from each other was indeed not a great Elder Scrolls experience.
I played beta and at launch, and was following the forums back then. I know from my own experience, and from reading the experiences of others, that the difficulty was a big issue for many. I was stuck for days on one boss fight, and I wasn't the only one. Just questing overland was a struggle. There was no way to enjoy the story when all you could do was focus on staying alive. Then they introduced Craglorn and that's when I quit for a few years.
You are correct that the split playerbase was a major factor in their move to One Tamriel, and changing that was one of the best things they ever did. Creating a completely separate veteran overland would be a step backward and split the playerbase again into 2 completely different worlds.
But the difficulty was also a major issue for many and that's why the veteran overland zones were also removed with One Tamriel.
Pre-one Tamriel was hard because a large part of the content was geared towards encouraging group play. Solo players are bound to get hammered a bit in a group setting.
When the devs saw that wasn't working out, things got toned down. I think they have toned down too far in addition to not sufficiently accounting for player damage creep.
A lot of those in opposition to the idea of a vet overland keep setting up a false dichotomy. "You want darksouls" No, something more than we currently have would be fine. Trials are more forgiving than dark souls. "The tried that with Craglorn" No one has asked for that back. No one has asked for mandatory overland grouping.
It doesn't have to be one extreme (starter zone everywhere) or the other (mandatory tank/heals/dpsx2 party)
The base game and story need to be a difficulty that all players of all levels and playstyles can complete. It succeeds at this exactly how it is.
Does it succeed at being fun?
That is a pretty important question when that continent is the majority of the game...robertthebard wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »It can not happen. It would basically require to have separate zone or the only way is to mix it up with Craglron time of region. Tis "Very easy" because they made it ever since Tamriel unlimited was launched and now to have by default a class that blaze through almost anything including World boss,Veteran dungeon even is absurd to put it very lightly and honestly.
It's saddening I have my sorcerer not even close enough to be called overpowered yet I feel Demi God, Landscape content was "messed up" to accomodate to greater player-base and I do not want to use word casual , but more freedom and friendly approach than frustration, but they went to extreme, Any experienced player will know how laughable later foes become, that's not the point ultimately there thousand more ways and reason for you to play Elder scrolls online, its not all about difficulty.
There are so many quests,little things to discover and beauties that will take years to finish, I would not worry about Overland. Players are not being creative enough and making most of game, trying finishing off every single quest there is explore all, I ma currenyl on break and when I return I will feel I barely even started.
I without offence believe a lot of players do not realise how impossibly giganitc game is and has to offer and they complain, for even above average player with time on his /her hands there is years of content to complete alone just story and quests,explortation can easiyl take several years of your life , how many players can say they finised off every single quest there is so far ,read all books and talked to every NPC , there is one way to do it, but do you care enough to learn something about lore, it all depends what we want
The problem is that questing is not fun because all the enemies are basically all the same difficulty, and none of them are that difficult.
Even as a fresh character with no CP or assistance.
Sure it has hundreds of hours of quest content, but it’s gameplay is not engaging. There isn’t any kind of enemy hierarchy like there was in Skyrim.
There’s no difficulty slider to change things up.
There is very little risk or danger when exploring the zones.
Enemies have bare minimum attacks.
The Main Story is not worth getting excited about when the main bad guy has barebones basic mechanics and can be beaten with ease.
There is no “Lich King” expansion.
Endgame content is great, decent stories as well as great combat.
It’s the gameplay in the rest of the game I have issue with.
—————————————————
Edited
Except that I saw, and mentioned it, in the last thread, or one of them anyway, a 0 CP player die to three scamps. Of course, the very first answer to that was "but it's impossible to have 0 CP"... It's not been hard for me, I could solo dolmens before CP, on a Stam NB. I solo Public Dungeons as a matter of course now. But I don't think they should be building the game to "challenge" me. Some of the people that are asking for this now would rage quit. There are people posting here that I wouldn't want to play their default difficulty. I'm good, but I don't think I'm in the "best of the best" category, here, anyway. I have been. I still didn't want story content buffed up to my level, in games where it wasn't already, such as DDO, where all the quests are instanced, and there is no OW overland content.
It was mentioned above that Vet overland had been tried, and didn't work because it split the player base. So now splitting the players is acceptable, where back then, when the game was presumably more populated, it wasn't? Or maybe they're arguing that it won't split the player base now, because time has passed? This from the same people that will say "well, games aren't for everyone". As it stands right now, more people can play in overland than can't. This is how it needs to be in an MMO, where the idea is to get people playing, and keep them playing as long as possible.
I also understand that since I do tend to play SP games on the hardest difficulties, and other people don't, that there's a skill gap between what I can do, and what others can do. I also understand that there's nothing wrong with that. I had to quit raiding because everything got way too flashy, and I have chronic migraines, and can't take it. At the end of a long raid/dungeon, I'm looking at a reverse kaleidoscope. Meaning that instead of the walls of the tube being a static color with changing patterns at the back, the back is a blinding white dot, with walls that are constantly shifting. I can't see anything else. So no, I don't want that level of interaction in my overland play. I don't want to move from one quest area to the next, only to have to log out and spend a day or so on my recliner, waiting for my head to explode, or having to call someone to take me to the ER, for my "happy shots", where for three days I still have that severe migraine, but I just don't care, because it makes me that loopy, all so someone can feel challenged in story mode.
1. When I start a new character I don’t apply champion points until they are level 50. So yes I have tested it without champion points.
2. Yes not everyone has the same gameplay experience. Hence why there is a percentage of us asking for a separate instance rather than saying that one sweeping change should be enforced on everyone.
We also understand that not everyone has the same skills or has the same desire for the same or similar gameplay experience. Which is exactly why many of us proposed a separate instance that you can choose to play.
3. If you don’t want to do the veteran instance then all the more power to you, just like the rest of the continent nobody would be forcing you to play it.
There would just be more options. You can still have the same story experience that you’re used to at this point. We’ve asked for the OPTION to have a different & challenging experience for the story. Most of us are not telling you to play our way.
4. As for splitting the player base, there is definitely a difference between what we are proposing which would split the player base only once as compared to the old system which split the player-base 9 different ways
5. If the idea is to get more people to play Overland as long as possible, then it would make sense to make that content more enjoyable for more people. Just because it is accessible doesn’t make it enjoyable.
Many of us would love to enjoy the solo questing experience again, let alone play it, but at this point it’s just not fun.
6. I am not even in the “best of the best” category. My main build has been a templar tank with minor DPS modifications, I’m actually a pretty casual player. However I still find the general combat experience especially for the main story really lacking.
Citations needed for "more people". It's not even overwhelmingly supported on the forums, and that's only about 15% of us, give or take a few percentage points. If it's "everyone I know", or "all my friends", thanks for feeding my Daeva of Melodrama, but that's really irrelevant, unless you can list 10s of thousands in one of those categories.
I could pull up the list of dozens upon dozens upon dozens of threads about this topic that have come up here and elsewhere over the years - which I have done before - but in my experience, no one actually cares how many times it has been brought up if they don’t like the idea in the first place.
At the end of the day it is the developers who have the solid numbers and the data.Edited by Iccotak on April 16, 2021 7:06PM2 -
skooma_dealer✭✭✭The playerbase is already split. It's just one half is happy and other is not.
Edited by skooma_dealer on April 16, 2021 6:56PM9 -
Daraklus✭✭✭✭skooma_dealer wrote: »The playerbase is already split. It's just one half is happy and other is not.
And the worst part is, is that the happy half does not care nor empathize with the people who are unhappy.8 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The player base is already split to some degree. We already see it here on the forums were people report that they don’t even bother with overland content anymore. Not even for one Playthrough
I am not talking about splitting the player base regarding their opinions on this subject. I am referring to physically splitting the player base into 2 separate worlds.Does it succeed at being fun?
That is a pretty important question when that continent is the majority of the game...
It is a lot of fun for me, and many others, who enjoy a relaxing experience while moving through the base story.
I like being the strong hero. I like saving the day. How can I see myself as such if I am struggling with mobs and bosses that are too difficult for what the content calls for?
But let's put our personal opinions aside for a moment and look at it from a design perspective. It would take a lot of valuable man power and resources to create then maintain a full copy of every zone in the game... and it would never end. Because there are patches and events and new chapters and dlcs that would also require this same upkeep.
And what happens when the players who are bored now then become bored with the veteran zones? Where does it end?
It just isn't feasible, no matter which side of the debate we are on.PCNA1 -
skooma_dealer✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
But let's put our personal opinions aside for a moment and look at it from a design perspective. It would take a lot of valuable man power and resources to create then maintain a full copy of every zone in the game... and it would never end. Because there are patches and events and new chapters and dlcs that would also require this same upkeep.
Sad, but true. No matter how strong people want vet overland, ZOS will never do that because of these reasons. They are failing in other aspects of the game and this will give them even bigger headache. They'd rather create another set of loot boxes. It is easy and it is a solid cash. I don't even blame them since it's just business. The only thing that can force them to consider to do vet overland is massive exodus of players from the game because of lack of such content. But I do not see it in near future, so I guess no vet overland for us, fellas!
2 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The player base is already split to some degree. We already see it here on the forums were people report that they don’t even bother with overland content anymore. Not even for one Playthrough
I am not talking about splitting the player base regarding their opinions on this subject. I am referring to physically splitting the player base into 2 separate worlds.Does it succeed at being fun?
That is a pretty important question when that continent is the majority of the game...
It is a lot of fun for me, and many others, who enjoy a relaxing experience while moving through the base story.
I like being the strong hero. I like saving the day. How can I see myself as such if I am struggling with mobs and bosses that are too difficult for what the content calls for?
Theyre not talking about splitting the player base simply because of their opinions on the matter. Theyre talking about them not participating in the content.
You get zero benefit from me being in the same instance as you. One of us could be on a different planet and the outcome would be the same.
Im glad that you enjoy being that strong. I play a tank the majority of the time. I swap my gear and abilities. Thats it. Same mundus, same food, same CP (and that no offensive CP). Despite what people keep saying about 1200CP being vertical cap, I have not found that to be true for tanks. At nearly 1500 CP there is still vertical progression, but all that is to say that I have no offensive CP, at all. Most everything will die in 2 hits. Some in one.
I doubt that anyone cares if you want to feel powerful or not. Its your game, have fun. What you're saying is that our fun doesnt matter, only yours, and use "splitting the player base" that I already abstain from as the excuse.
8 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »What you're saying is that our fun doesnt matter, only yours, and use "splitting the player base" that I already abstain from as the excuse.
That isn't what I am saying at all.
Everyone of every skill level, and every playstyle needs to be able to complete and enjoy the base story that is overland. Some find it fun as is, some don't. But for reasons I have already stated, it just isn't feasible to create what is basically a second complete game.PCNA0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can we stop discussing what was a failure in the past and what was not?
There are options that don't require veteran zones, separate instances or anything like that. There are solutions that will allow both players, the one who likes difficult content and the one who doesn't like having trouble, to play together in the same place at the same time and both will have fun.
What solutions? Raise the difficulty of Overland and give optional buffs as tools we already have (no, I don't like the idea of debuffs, as weakening yourself is illogical in the context of an MMORPG), with a few levels of strength that would keep the status quo for those who like eazy gameplay, and with the choice of weaker bonuses or none at all, give a challenge for those who seek it.
It would also solve another problem. Level scaling. Currently up to 160cp players when leveling only feel weaker as the lvl increases. Get rid of lvl scaling and give us those buffs I mentioned. If they would be strong enough that even a beginner can effortlessly wade through overland content, then leveling up will make sense again. Again, we will be able to feel that with each level our strength grows and that's what RPG games are all about.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can we stop discussing what was a failure in the past and what was not?
There are options that don't require veteran zones, separate instances or anything like that. There are solutions that will allow both players, the one who likes difficult content and the one who doesn't like having trouble, to play together in the same place at the same time and both will have fun.
What solutions? Raise the difficulty of Overland and give optional buffs as tools we already have (no, I don't like the idea of debuffs, as weakening yourself is illogical in the context of an MMORPG), with a few levels of strength that would keep the status quo for those who like eazy gameplay, and with the choice of weaker bonuses or none at all, give a challenge for those who seek it.
It would also solve another problem. Level scaling. Currently up to 160cp players when leveling only feel weaker as the lvl increases. Get rid of lvl scaling and give us those buffs I mentioned. If they would be strong enough that even a beginner can effortlessly wade through overland content, then leveling up will make sense again. Again, we will be able to feel that with each level our strength grows and that's what RPG games are all about.
An optional debuff that could be used when the player desired would be much easier to implement, and more importantly, would not require a complete reworking of the entire game, which raising overland difficulty would.Edited by SilverBride on April 16, 2021 10:16PMPCNA0 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I will say it again: Veteran Zones were not a "Failure" because of difficulty. They were a "Failure" because they split the playerbase apart too much and the leveling process was that of a typical MMO, when players jumped in expecting an Elder Scrolls experience. People expected Elder Scrolls freedom to go where ever and play with their friends, what they got was being split apart from their mates who picked a different faction, while also having to level in a linear progression.
I can guarantee, if I were part of the forums back then, I would defend the Veteran Zones' difficulty to the death, while being in agreement that the playerbase being torn apart from each other was indeed not a great Elder Scrolls experience.
I played beta and at launch, and was following the forums back then. I know from my own experience, and from reading the experiences of others, that the difficulty was a big issue for many. I was stuck for days on one boss fight, and I wasn't the only one. Just questing overland was a struggle. There was no way to enjoy the story when all you could do was focus on staying alive. Then they introduced Craglorn and that's when I quit for a few years.
You are correct that the split playerbase was a major factor in their move to One Tamriel, and changing that was one of the best things they ever did. Creating a completely separate veteran overland would be a step backward and split the playerbase again into 2 completely different worlds.
But the difficulty was also a major issue for many and that's why the veteran overland zones were also removed with One Tamriel.
Pre-one Tamriel was hard because a large part of the content was geared towards encouraging group play. Solo players are bound to get hammered a bit in a group setting.
When the devs saw that wasn't working out, things got toned down. I think they have toned down too far in addition to not sufficiently accounting for player damage creep.
A lot of those in opposition to the idea of a vet overland keep setting up a false dichotomy. "You want darksouls" No, something more than we currently have would be fine. Trials are more forgiving than dark souls. "The tried that with Craglorn" No one has asked for that back. No one has asked for mandatory overland grouping.
It doesn't have to be one extreme (starter zone everywhere) or the other (mandatory tank/heals/dpsx2 party)
The base game and story need to be a difficulty that all players of all levels and playstyles can complete. It succeeds at this exactly how it is.
And I posit it doesn't need to be at the bottom tier for all to complete. Or that all instances need to be on the same tier, or that the "dynamic scaling" is working properly. The whole idea of 1T was the world keeping pace somewhat with the player, so while you were not over-leveling a zone, you did not become too OP. It has been an abject failure in that regard.
So how would having an optional instance in any way keep someone from completing the story at "all levels and playstyles" exactly?SilverBride wrote: »Of course overland will become easier for players as they gain CP, but not all of us see that a a bad thing. It is not reasonable to expect that a completely new version of the base game be created and maintained to accommodate those who are unhappy with what is merely a normal progression.
It is not an all new version. While there are adjustments that would have to be made, devs would hardly be making everything from scratch. For all we know implementing a vet overland would increase player retention - ie more money.
2 -
Daraklus✭✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »
It is not an all new version. While there are adjustments that would have to be made, devs would hardly be making everything from scratch. For all we know implementing a vet overland would increase player retention - ie more money.
It certainly would encourage me to keep playing with a bit of a smile, maybe even actually do some of the zone storylines that I skipped completely because I felt insulted with how easy they were.
Something that I also just realized, is that Zenimax already has all the tech they could need to be able to do all of this. But apparently it would be so much work to implement... Despite them already having everything they need and could just flip a switch or write a bit of code.
I just remember how initially when the Xbox One was revealed it had an asinine internet requirement to work, and Microsoft put out some excuse about how it is integral and that it would be impossible to change... Turned out it was very simple to do when enough people sent angry letters to them.
Who is to say it's not the same in this instance?
2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »It is not an all new version. While there are adjustments that would have to be made, devs would hardly be making everything from scratch. For all we know implementing a vet overland would increase player retention - ie more money.
It would be a large undertaking, and I don't believe enough players want this to justify it. I also believe that more players would leave because of it than the other way around.PCNA2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This, now you could compensate this with more xp or better drop chances for it to make some sense rater than just nerfing yourself. For me, I probably used it for my main doing all the new quests.SilverBride wrote: »Can we stop discussing what was a failure in the past and what was not?
There are options that don't require veteran zones, separate instances or anything like that. There are solutions that will allow both players, the one who likes difficult content and the one who doesn't like having trouble, to play together in the same place at the same time and both will have fun.
What solutions? Raise the difficulty of Overland and give optional buffs as tools we already have (no, I don't like the idea of debuffs, as weakening yourself is illogical in the context of an MMORPG), with a few levels of strength that would keep the status quo for those who like eazy gameplay, and with the choice of weaker bonuses or none at all, give a challenge for those who seek it.
It would also solve another problem. Level scaling. Currently up to 160cp players when leveling only feel weaker as the lvl increases. Get rid of lvl scaling and give us those buffs I mentioned. If they would be strong enough that even a beginner can effortlessly wade through overland content, then leveling up will make sense again. Again, we will be able to feel that with each level our strength grows and that's what RPG games are all about.
An optional debuff that could be used when the player desired would be much easier to implement, and more importantly, would not require a complete reworking of the entire game, which raising overland difficulty would.
Not on alts farming skillpoints, even trough I enjoy the quests I want to burn trough stuff.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0
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