Normal and Veteran Overland

merpins · April 2021

We have Normal and Veteran content for trials and dungeons, so why not Normal and Veteran content for overland PVE? The content, aside from some world bosses, in the overworld is very easy, more so for veteran players, and has very little value aside from the story. Players don't usually repeat quests on alts because there's never a need to aside from essential questlines that give SP or levels in skill lines, unless maybe they liked a particular questline or haven't done it in a long time. The rewards aren't great, and the EXP gained is ok, but definitely overshadowed by grinding or just queueing for normal dungeons.

With the next major update introducing Companions, I see this could be a great time to introduce a veteran overworld. It could be something where you select Normal or Veteran when you log in, and the overland PVE in the world is scaled to that difficulty. Mobs that are harder to kill and hit harder, harder delve bosses, harder overland bosses, harder zone events like anchors, better quest rewards like maybe in the form of cosmetics or a coin of some kind for a veteran PVE shop, more exp for quests. I dunno, if overland content was harder and had better rewards, or even without the rewards it was just more difficult, I feel like going through quests in game (after playing for 7 years) would be funner as a veteran player.

EDIT: This would also give them the opportunity to reset everyone's quests, at least in veteran. There are players that are kinda stuck having to grind because they're out of quests on the characters they like to play (other than repeatables), so making a veteran version of the overworld would allow those players to quest again, at least when they go on veteran mode.

EDIT 2: With the announcement of the new daily quests where you get coins towards crown crate items, that could be a good incentive at the end of questlines on a hard-mode as well.

HalfRain216 · April 2021

The world would be empty on Xbox NA if that was the case.

Vhozek · April 2021

HalfRain216 wrote: »

The world would be empty on Xbox NA if that was the case.

If you don't want it to be hard, stay where you are.
If you want it to be hard, go there and experience the lonely difficulty.
Sounds like a deal to me.

HalfRain216 · April 2021

Vhozek wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

The world would be empty on Xbox NA if that was the case.

If you don't want it to be hard, stay where you are.
If you want it to be hard, go there and experience the lonely difficulty.
Sounds like a deal to me.

I think both difficulty’s would be lonely. I see a pretty good split of people with CP and people without, though I’m CP 400 and can’t solo most world bosses as they take to long and gets boring without a group.

Could you imagine the work that would go into creating that though unless you just want increased health and damage without any new mechanics.

Essentially the only difference would be you have to use your rotation X amount of times more not really more difficult just takes longer.

nihoumab14_ESO · April 2021

Companions only stand to make overworld content even easier. The current solution to make overworld content harder is to just intentionally gimp yourself, and in a game about making your own build, that's just not fun. I've seen people suggest a 'hard' overworld instance, but that just runs the risk of splitting the playerbase, which just isn't fun to play in, plus, that sort of thing could potentially create abuses by having two of a zone. Plus, what is hard for one person isnt necessarily hard for someone else.

What if ZOS introduced a set of mementos to the game, that increased overworld difficulty by lowering your own damage and health, and increased the damage you receive from enemies in the overworld/from quests. ZOS could have different mementos for different 'difficulties'. ZOS could even introduce rewards/incentives. And this avoids a lot of potential drama/ issues with other solutions (though there is still the problem of other players blazing through without activating increased difficulty and killing your enemies while you are fighting them).

[Edit to remove discussing disciplinary actions]

BlueRaven · April 2021

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

We have Normal and Veteran content for trials and dungeons, so why not Normal and Veteran content for overland PVE? The content, aside from some world bosses, in the overworld is very easy, more so for veteran players, and has very little value aside from the story. Players don't usually repeat quests on alts because there's never a need to aside from essential questlines that give SP or levels in skill lines, unless maybe they liked a particular questline or haven't done it in a long time. The rewards aren't great, and the EXP gained is ok, but definitely overshadowed by grinding or just queueing for normal dungeons.

With the next major update introducing Companions, I see this could be a great time to introduce a veteran overworld. It could be something where you select Normal or Veteran when you log in, and the overland PVE in the world is scaled to that difficulty. Mobs that are harder to kill and hit harder, harder delve bosses, harder overland bosses, harder zone events like anchors, better quest rewards like maybe in the form of cosmetics or a coin of some kind for a veteran PVE shop, more exp for quests. I dunno, if overland content was harder and had better rewards, or even without the rewards it was just more difficult, I feel like going through quests in game (after playing for 7 years) would be funner as a veteran player.

EDIT: This would also give them the opportunity to reset everyone's quests, at least in veteran. There are players that are kinda stuck having to grind because they're out of quests on the characters they like to play (other than repeatables), so making a veteran version of the overworld would allow those players to quest again, at least when they go on veteran mode.

And we about double the price of chapters, dlc's, and dungeons to pay for this? Or are you expecting the people who produce this game to work for free?

EDIT: Oh and how are they supposed to squeeze more time into doing all this extra stuff? Hire more people?

Abelon · April 2021

BlueRaven wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

We have Normal and Veteran content for trials and dungeons, so why not Normal and Veteran content for overland PVE? The content, aside from some world bosses, in the overworld is very easy, more so for veteran players, and has very little value aside from the story. Players don't usually repeat quests on alts because there's never a need to aside from essential questlines that give SP or levels in skill lines, unless maybe they liked a particular questline or haven't done it in a long time. The rewards aren't great, and the EXP gained is ok, but definitely overshadowed by grinding or just queueing for normal dungeons.

With the next major update introducing Companions, I see this could be a great time to introduce a veteran overworld. It could be something where you select Normal or Veteran when you log in, and the overland PVE in the world is scaled to that difficulty. Mobs that are harder to kill and hit harder, harder delve bosses, harder overland bosses, harder zone events like anchors, better quest rewards like maybe in the form of cosmetics or a coin of some kind for a veteran PVE shop, more exp for quests. I dunno, if overland content was harder and had better rewards, or even without the rewards it was just more difficult, I feel like going through quests in game (after playing for 7 years) would be funner as a veteran player.

EDIT: This would also give them the opportunity to reset everyone's quests, at least in veteran. There are players that are kinda stuck having to grind because they're out of quests on the characters they like to play (other than repeatables), so making a veteran version of the overworld would allow those players to quest again, at least when they go on veteran mode.

And we about double the price of chapters, dlc's, and dungeons to pay for this? Or are you expecting the people who produce this game to work for free?

EDIT: Oh and how are they supposed to squeeze more time into doing all this extra stuff? Hire more people?

1) Why double at all? 2) Why double the price of everything?

We are getting companions in Blackwood. Do we pay double for the chapter just because we get companions? How do they squeeze in the time to make companions? By allocating time to make companions...

And the same would happen here. We pay for it, they allocate time to implement it. Nothing new.

ZOS_Ragnar · April 2021

We have removed a few posts from this thread that were more focused on launching personal attacks than discussing the topic. Please ensure all future posts are focused on furthering a civil and constructive discussion.

robertthebard · April 2021

Vhozek wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

The world would be empty on Xbox NA if that was the case.

If you don't want it to be hard, stay where you are.
If you want it to be hard, go there and experience the lonely difficulty.
Sounds like a deal to me.

Are you a player that needs help with some of the overland content? Suck it up and learn to play, right? That's what your post reads as to me. It may sound like a deal to you, until you go to log in, and find that, due to lack of players, the game has been closed. Because all those players that you're throwing under the bus? They may be supporting the game by buying stuff, and making the servers seem active when someone needs help with a dolmen or a WB or a Public Dungeon, or even dungeons in general on that "lonely difficulty". So when they can't play on the "lonely difficulty" and can't play on the other one, they're not going to stick around.

INB4 "But Darksouls", a pretty common argument: This isn't, and was never intended to be Dark Souls...

BlueRaven · April 2021

Abelon wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

We have Normal and Veteran content for trials and dungeons, so why not Normal and Veteran content for overland PVE? The content, aside from some world bosses, in the overworld is very easy, more so for veteran players, and has very little value aside from the story. Players don't usually repeat quests on alts because there's never a need to aside from essential questlines that give SP or levels in skill lines, unless maybe they liked a particular questline or haven't done it in a long time. The rewards aren't great, and the EXP gained is ok, but definitely overshadowed by grinding or just queueing for normal dungeons.

With the next major update introducing Companions, I see this could be a great time to introduce a veteran overworld. It could be something where you select Normal or Veteran when you log in, and the overland PVE in the world is scaled to that difficulty. Mobs that are harder to kill and hit harder, harder delve bosses, harder overland bosses, harder zone events like anchors, better quest rewards like maybe in the form of cosmetics or a coin of some kind for a veteran PVE shop, more exp for quests. I dunno, if overland content was harder and had better rewards, or even without the rewards it was just more difficult, I feel like going through quests in game (after playing for 7 years) would be funner as a veteran player.

EDIT: This would also give them the opportunity to reset everyone's quests, at least in veteran. There are players that are kinda stuck having to grind because they're out of quests on the characters they like to play (other than repeatables), so making a veteran version of the overworld would allow those players to quest again, at least when they go on veteran mode.

And we about double the price of chapters, dlc's, and dungeons to pay for this? Or are you expecting the people who produce this game to work for free?

EDIT: Oh and how are they supposed to squeeze more time into doing all this extra stuff? Hire more people?

1) Why double at all? 2) Why double the price of everything?

We are getting companions in Blackwood. Do we pay double for the chapter just because we get companions? How do they squeeze in the time to make companions? By allocating time to make companions...

And the same would happen here. We pay for it, they allocate time to implement it. Nothing new.

Notice what we are NOT getting.

No new new class, nor a new profession. We are not getting customized combat pets (that I know of), nor a barbershop. Why?

Because time and money is finite, and they are putting in what they think will best sell the next chapter.

They budgeted time and money for companions. It was not a free thing that some volunteer came up with and implemented on their free time.

A vet overland version means that the size of the overland gets cut, so they can pay for the vet version. If they put in a vet overland for this chapter, I am guessing the companions get cut, and probably a good deal of the overland content. Because what overland content there is has to be done about TWICE.

Are fights more complicated? New Abilities? That means more sounds (cost), more voice acting (cost) more animators (cost), more time spent on balancing (cost), more time QCing (cost), more managerial and meetings (cost)...

The next time you are at work, and they require you to stay late for something. Say to them "No problem, and you don't have to pay me anything for this extra work I am doing." And see how surprised they get.

Having your house painted? Tell them you want the deck done as well for no extra price. And see how surprised they get.

GrimClaw · April 2021

It doesn't need to be dark souls , it simply should utilize the full experience like crafting stuff and using potions and enchants. Currently, nothing matters, just rush trough and bash whater attacks you without thinking twice. When I started playing with my girlfriend she got bored very fast. Her healing character was useless in our party and we stopped playing, haven't touched it again. And it looks like nothing changed over the years.

I'm sad seeing this game beeing adjusted for below average rookie skill. I remember the old wow times, where you needed help from others to finish quests. Yes, progress was much slower but every quest boss was an experience I remember today. I can't remember any ESO boss at all, despite having played for hundreds of hours.

And those mails you send to me all time "login for reward" makes it all worse. I want rewards for playing, not for stupid daily procedures.

Hamboot · April 2021

This is one of my main criticism of this game, it's absolutely ridiculous how braindead easy quest bosses are in this game, and it doesn't even make any sense to me, to have a quest boss talk crap and threaten to annihilate me when I can kill them in just 30s with an ulti, and not feel a shred of danger, I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling this way.

Alurria · April 2021

GrimClaw wrote: »

It doesn't need to be dark souls , it simply should utilize the full experience like crafting stuff and using potions and enchants. Currently, nothing matters, just rush trough and bash whater attacks you without thinking twice. When I started playing with my girlfriend she got bored very fast. Her healing character was useless in our party and we stopped playing, haven't touched it again. And it looks like nothing changed over the years.

I'm sad seeing this game beeing adjusted for below average rookie skill. I remember the old wow times, where you needed help from others to finish quests. Yes, progress was much slower but every quest boss was an experience I remember today. I can't remember any ESO boss at all, despite having played for hundreds of hours.

And those mails you send to me all time "login for reward" makes it all worse. I want rewards for playing, not for stupid daily procedures.

But your opinion is subjective, what is easy for you maybe hard for others. I'm sorry you and your GF found it boring I don't know either of you so can't assume what you find interesting in a game. Many of the people I know like the story the fights are incidental. The TES series was known for that and by extension ESO. There are games which focus on combat there are games that focus on story. ESO is trying to draw in all types of players not just the ones who want combat and not just the ones who want a story. That is why they develop vet content normal content and story content. If you are looking for challenge do vet content it's all subjective and no one should push their idea of how others play or want to have fun on everyone. I don't know what the cost would be to make harder content for those who want it, but I am sure it would cost money to develop. Why redo old content when they can introduce new content. The gap between new players and old players will continue to get wider because there are a finite number of people who play MMO's The one major no no is frustrating your players.

WiseSky · April 2021

I would like to see this feature added for people who want it.

Since it’s a new feature and requires $$$, it would have to come out of somewhere.

I personally love my Unique Role Playing Custom play style that lets me have an amazing challenge for every content in the game.

merpins · April 2021

nihoumab14_ESO wrote: »

Posting this here since a thread I made was closed.

Companions only stand to make overworld content even easier. The current solution to make overworld content harder is to just intentionally gimp yourself, and in a game about making your own build, that's just not fun. I've seen people suggest a 'hard' overworld instance, but that just runs the risk of splitting the playerbase, which just isn't fun to play in, plus, that sort of thing could potentially create abuses by having two of a zone. Plus, what is hard for one person isnt necessarily hard for someone else.

What if ZOS introduced a set of mementos to the game, that increased overworld difficulty by lowering your own damage and health, and increased the damage you receive from enemies in the overworld/from quests. ZOS could have different mementos for different 'difficulties'. ZOS could even introduce rewards/incentives. And this avoids a lot of potential drama/ issues with other solutions (though there is still the problem of other players blazing through without activating increased difficulty and killing your enemies while you are fighting them).

The Channel system has always worked in a game like Maplestory, whose entire game is grinding, and that game has been around for 20 years. Yeah it would cut the game in half, but they'd just need to instance the world like how they instance quests. You know how when you complete a quest, and your friend hasn't and you enter that zone, then your friend disappears? Same thing, but make it so towns and wayshrines and non-combat areas like the harborage entrance or the event shop are world instanced, but everything else is difficulty instanced.

Iccotak · April 2021

HalfRain216 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

The world would be empty on Xbox NA if that was the case.

If you don't want it to be hard, stay where you are.
If you want it to be hard, go there and experience the lonely difficulty.
Sounds like a deal to me.

I think both difficulty’s would be lonely. I see a pretty good split of people with CP and people without, though I’m CP 400 and can’t solo most world bosses as they take to long and gets boring without a group.

Could you imagine the work that would go into creating that though unless you just want increased health and damage without any new mechanics.

Essentially the only difference would be you have to use your rotation X amount of times more not really more difficult just takes longer.

That is going with the assumption that somebody with champion points would want to go to the harder instance.

Also zones are empty largely because the developers don’t incentivize players to go there often enough.

If the developers regularly did events every month or every two weeks to encourage players to participate in other areas of the game like previous chapters then I think that would largely Zones feeling empty.

I think it is also worth considering that a reason some players don’t go to the zones or do the story is because they don’t find them fun at all

robertthebard wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

The world would be empty on Xbox NA if that was the case.

If you don't want it to be hard, stay where you are.
If you want it to be hard, go there and experience the lonely difficulty.
Sounds like a deal to me.

Are you a player that needs help with some of the overland content? Suck it up and learn to play, right? That's what your post reads as to me. It may sound like a deal to you, until you go to log in, and find that, due to lack of players, the game has been closed. Because all those players that you're throwing under the bus? They may be supporting the game by buying stuff, and making the servers seem active when someone needs help with a dolmen or a WB or a Public Dungeon, or even dungeons in general on that "lonely difficulty". So when they can't play on the "lonely difficulty" and can't play on the other one, they're not going to stick around.

INB4 "But Darksouls", a pretty common argument: This isn't, and was never intended to be Dark Souls...

No one is saying ESO should be Dark Souls lol.
What people have said is that there is a big difference between endgame & Overland, with no middle ground.

For many of us, much of the gameplay experience is just underwhelming and undermines the writing for questing and the main story.

We would like to enjoy questing and to get excited for the next big story, but it’s really hard to do that when you know that the new “big bad“ is going to be an utter joke.

Vanya · April 2021

It can not happen. It would basically require to have separate zone or the only way is to mix it up with Craglron time of region. Tis "Very easy" because they made it ever since Tamriel unlimited was launched and now to have by default a class that blaze through almost anything including World boss,Veteran dungeon even is absurd to put it very lightly and honestly.

It's saddening I have my sorcerer not even close enough to be called overpowered yet I feel Demi God, Landscape content was "messed up" to accomodate to greater player-base and I do not want to use word casual , but more freedom and friendly approach than frustration, but they went to extreme, Any experienced player will know how laughable later foes become, that's not the point ultimately there thousand more ways and reason for you to play Elder scrolls online, its not all about difficulty.

There are so many quests,little things to discover and beauties that will take years to finish, I would not worry about Overland. Players are not being creative enough and making most of game, trying finishing off every single quest there is explore all, I ma currenyl on break and when I return I will feel I barely even started.

I without offence believe a lot of players do not realise how impossibly giganitc game is and has to offer and they complain, for even above average player with time on his /her hands there is years of content to complete alone just story and quests,explortation can easiyl take several years of your life , how many players can say they finised off every single quest there is so far ,read all books and talked to every NPC , there is one way to do it, but do you care enough to learn something about lore, it all depends what we want

Iccotak · April 2021

Alurria wrote: »

GrimClaw wrote: »

It doesn't need to be dark souls , it simply should utilize the full experience like crafting stuff and using potions and enchants. Currently, nothing matters, just rush trough and bash whater attacks you without thinking twice. When I started playing with my girlfriend she got bored very fast. Her healing character was useless in our party and we stopped playing, haven't touched it again. And it looks like nothing changed over the years.

I'm sad seeing this game beeing adjusted for below average rookie skill. I remember the old wow times, where you needed help from others to finish quests. Yes, progress was much slower but every quest boss was an experience I remember today. I can't remember any ESO boss at all, despite having played for hundreds of hours.

And those mails you send to me all time "login for reward" makes it all worse. I want rewards for playing, not for stupid daily procedures.

But your opinion is subjective, what is easy for you maybe hard for others. I'm sorry you and your GF found it boring I don't know either of you so can't assume what you find interesting in a game. Many of the people I know like the story the fights are incidental. The TES series was known for that and by extension ESO. There are games which focus on combat there are games that focus on story. ESO is trying to draw in all types of players not just the ones who want combat and not just the ones who want a story. That is why they develop vet content normal content and story content. If you are looking for challenge do vet content it's all subjective and no one should push their idea of how others play or want to have fun on everyone. I don't know what the cost would be to make harder content for those who want it, but I am sure it would cost money to develop. Why redo old content when they can introduce new content. The gap between new players and old players will continue to get wider because there are a finite number of people who play MMO's The one major no no is frustrating your players.

Why is it - whenever somebody brings up the idea of a separate optional instance that a player can opt into if they want - other people frame it as if they are trying to enforce everyone to experience the same thing?

Believe it or not other people that are advocating for similar idea to this often feel that only one type of experience is being enforced on them whenever they want to do solo questing.

It’s not even just playing the game by themselves, we also have stories about how we tried introducing a friend of ours to the game - because ESO was advertised as playing Elder Scrolls with friends, but the gameplay in the general overland story content is so lackluster that it killed much of the initial interest many of our friends had when they tried it out.

Playing with a friend in Overland is frustratingly boring, not because of phasing or issues of being on the same page while doing a quest - but because when playing with just one friend what was easy suddenly became an extreme breeze.

Also the last feeling you should want your big epic main story fight to produce is “that’s it?“

merpins · April 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

Alurria wrote: »

GrimClaw wrote: »

It’s not even just playing the game by themselves, we also have stories about how we tried introducing a friend of ours to the game - because ESO was advertised as playing Elder Scrolls with friends, but the gameplay in the general overland story content is so lackluster that it killed much of the initial interest many of our friends had when they tried it out.

Playing with a friend in Overland is frustratingly boring, not because of phasing or issues of being on the same page while doing a quest - but because when playing with just one friend what was easy suddenly became an extreme breeze.

Also the last feeling you should want your big epic main story fight to produce is “that’s it?“

This 100%. I've been playing this game since Beta, preordered the collectors edition and everything, course like many I did ditch it for 6 months to wait for them to fix it on release, but when they fixed it it was great. Me and my s/o tried it, and played together and loved it. Fast-forward to 8 months ago, and I couldn't get a single one of my d&d friends to play the game for more than a week because it was too easy, and if I played with them I was basically carrying them, and when they played alone or with each other, it was still a faceroll. When the game came out, yeah it wasn't perfect and yeah I think it's better now, but it's so easy that it's hard to get people to stick with it. The new reward system to buy mounts without micro-transactions is a step in the right direction to getting many people into the game I think, but having a hard mode of some kind, like how it used to be (kind of), would definitely help as well.

SilverBride · April 2021

If the majority really felt that the game was boring and a let down no one would be playing. And that isn't the case.

The main story is the base game. It is set to a difficulty that all players of all skill levels can complete. It is not reasonable to expend valuable manpower and resources to create a second world in veteran difficulty that few players would even utilize.

Veteran overland zones were removed with One Tamriel because players were frustrated with the difficulty. It would be a huge mistake to bring it back, especially considering the high cost of creating and maintaining it.

merpins · April 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

If the majority really felt that the game was boring and a let down no one would be playing. And that isn't the case.

The main story is the base game. It is set to a difficulty that all players of all skill levels can complete. It is not reasonable to expend valuable manpower and resources to create a second world in veteran difficulty that few players would even utilize.

Veteran overland zones were removed with One Tamriel because players were frustrated with the difficulty. It would be a huge mistake to bring it back, especially considering the high cost of creating and maintaining it.

I wasn't saying that the game is boring or a let down. I'm saying that after the first playthrough, there's no reason to go back unless you liked a specific quest or need skill points. Your first playthrough of course won't be easy even now, though it's way easier than it should be since it doesn't force you to learn mechanics other than basic ones, but still. What I'm talking about is replayability, and for the ability to make it harder once you've learned the mechanics of the game and are better at it.

Maintenance of it doesn't matter much, it wouldn't be more maintenance than the base game, they'd just need to adjust it a bit until it feels right, and then basically just let it sit. They could even make it zone based and release it slowly: When you enter a zone, you could choose Vet or Normal if it has the option, that way they wouldn't need to release EVERYTHING at once, but just a few zones at a time probably starting at the base game zones and working their way out. More options doesn't hurt the game, by that logic Vet dungeons are a mistake and should be removed in favor of being able to be inclusive so everyone can run a dungeon and get the gear they want without learning how to play the game.

SilverBride · April 2021

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

I wasn't saying that the game is boring or a let down. I'm saying that after the first playthrough, there's no reason to go back unless you liked a specific quest or need skill points. Your first playthrough of course won't be easy even now, though it's way easier than it should be since it doesn't force you to learn mechanics other than basic ones, but still. What I'm talking about is replayability, and for the ability to make it harder once you've learned the mechanics of the game and are better at it.

I wasn't referring to anything you said specifically in your original post, or that you said the game was boring or a letdown. But that is something I have come across every time this subject comes up.

But to address another point you brought up, I do have a reason to go back and do all the zones again. I complete all the zones on all my characters, which is why I only have 3 at the moment. (Although I did do part of the zones on 4 other characters I since deleted.) I enjoy completing these and am not the least bit bored by doing them again on another character.

But if you think there is no point, why do you even want veteran zones? It would still be the same zones, the same quests, the same content... only harder. Just facing harder content wouldn't make it fresh and new.

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Maintenance of it doesn't matter much, it wouldn't be more maintenance than the base game, they'd just need to adjust it a bit until it feels right, and then basically just let it sit.

It would be so much more than this. All the mobs, world bosses, delves and delve bosses, and harrowstorms and their equivalents would have to be reworked. And that is only the beginning, because then there would be patches and events. They wouldn't patch just one instance of overland without patching the other. And the events would also have to be applied, then later removed. Can you imagine patch day with twice as many zones being patched?

Maybe some people weren't playing when the game was new, or maybe they forgot, but we had veteran zones and they failed. More players complained than not and I remember what a struggle it was. I only ran through the vet zones once and never did it again. I finally ended up quitting for a few years after Craglorn was introduced.

It didn't work then, so I can't see how it would work now.

geekboy09 · April 2021

[snip] I do not believe we need veteran overland. I believe there should be a scroll for story bosses. Everyone wins.

[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]

robertthebard · April 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

The world would be empty on Xbox NA if that was the case.

If you don't want it to be hard, stay where you are.
If you want it to be hard, go there and experience the lonely difficulty.
Sounds like a deal to me.

I think both difficulty’s would be lonely. I see a pretty good split of people with CP and people without, though I’m CP 400 and can’t solo most world bosses as they take to long and gets boring without a group.

Could you imagine the work that would go into creating that though unless you just want increased health and damage without any new mechanics.

Essentially the only difference would be you have to use your rotation X amount of times more not really more difficult just takes longer.

That is going with the assumption that somebody with champion points would want to go to the harder instance.

Also zones are empty largely because the developers don’t incentivize players to go there often enough.

If the developers regularly did events every month or every two weeks to encourage players to participate in other areas of the game like previous chapters then I think that would largely Zones feeling empty.

I think it is also worth considering that a reason some players don’t go to the zones or do the story is because they don’t find them fun at all

robertthebard wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

The world would be empty on Xbox NA if that was the case.

If you don't want it to be hard, stay where you are.
If you want it to be hard, go there and experience the lonely difficulty.
Sounds like a deal to me.

Are you a player that needs help with some of the overland content? Suck it up and learn to play, right? That's what your post reads as to me. It may sound like a deal to you, until you go to log in, and find that, due to lack of players, the game has been closed. Because all those players that you're throwing under the bus? They may be supporting the game by buying stuff, and making the servers seem active when someone needs help with a dolmen or a WB or a Public Dungeon, or even dungeons in general on that "lonely difficulty". So when they can't play on the "lonely difficulty" and can't play on the other one, they're not going to stick around.

INB4 "But Darksouls", a pretty common argument: This isn't, and was never intended to be Dark Souls...

No one is saying ESO should be Dark Souls lol.
What people have said is that there is a big difference between endgame & Overland, with no middle ground.

For many of us, much of the gameplay experience is just underwhelming and undermines the writing for questing and the main story.

We would like to enjoy questing and to get excited for the next big story, but it’s really hard to do that when you know that the new “big bad“ is going to be an utter joke.

Actually, not only did someone claim "but Dark Souls", they also cited "Sekiro". It was closed down, not sure why, and don't care, but yeah, there are people that believe that since these games had a following, then other games should follow suit.

Edit: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7211139/#Comment_7211139

Jeremy · April 2021

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

We have Normal and Veteran content for trials and dungeons, so why not Normal and Veteran content for overland PVE? The content, aside from some world bosses, in the overworld is very easy, more so for veteran players, and has very little value aside from the story. Players don't usually repeat quests on alts because there's never a need to aside from essential questlines that give SP or levels in skill lines, unless maybe they liked a particular questline or haven't done it in a long time. The rewards aren't great, and the EXP gained is ok, but definitely overshadowed by grinding or just queueing for normal dungeons.

With the next major update introducing Companions, I see this could be a great time to introduce a veteran overworld. It could be something where you select Normal or Veteran when you log in, and the overland PVE in the world is scaled to that difficulty. Mobs that are harder to kill and hit harder, harder delve bosses, harder overland bosses, harder zone events like anchors, better quest rewards like maybe in the form of cosmetics or a coin of some kind for a veteran PVE shop, more exp for quests. I dunno, if overland content was harder and had better rewards, or even without the rewards it was just more difficult, I feel like going through quests in game (after playing for 7 years) would be funner as a veteran player.

EDIT: This would also give them the opportunity to reset everyone's quests, at least in veteran. There are players that are kinda stuck having to grind because they're out of quests on the characters they like to play (other than repeatables), so making a veteran version of the overworld would allow those players to quest again, at least when they go on veteran mode.

EDIT 2: With the announcement of the new daily quests where you get coins towards crown crate items, that could be a good incentive at the end of questlines on a hard-mode as well.

This is what I'm hoping too, that the companion system will open the door for us to finally get Veteran Landscape content. So you took the words right out of my mouth.

Jeffrey530 · April 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

Why is it - whenever somebody brings up the idea of a separate optional instance that a player can opt into if they want - other people frame it as if they are trying to enforce everyone to experience

Being optional doesn't mean people can't oppose to the idea, since devs have limited time and resources that we would prefer them to focus on somewhere else.

Sure, if optional vet overland is to be implemented to please a particular crowd, let's also implement optional solo trials, optional pve cyrodil, optional pvp overland then fair enough. It is all optional right? Why would anyone oppose any of these and deny people of their fun.

Abelon · April 2021

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Why is it - whenever somebody brings up the idea of a separate optional instance that a player can opt into if they want - other people frame it as if they are trying to enforce everyone to experience

Being optional doesn't mean people can't oppose to the idea, since devs have limited time and resources that we would prefer them to focus on somewhere else.

Sure, if optional vet overland is to be implemented to please a particular crowd, let's also implement optional solo trials, optional pve cyrodil, optional pvp overland then fair enough. It is all optional right? Why would anyone oppose any of these and deny people of their fun.

That's exactly the point of chapters and dlcs though... The Imperial City dlc is literally optional pvp overland, mate.... People do occasionally ask for pve cyrodil and who knows if anything will become of it. Companions seem to be a step towards "solo trials" and I could imagine that that too will come eventually.

I'm not sure what else to say here... You can oppose those... I mean you can do anything as long as you follow the forum rules. Is there much of a point to that? I don't know. You don't exactly finance the whole game development by yourself. The playerbase is made up of many different groups of players. Look at Blackwood. Some people don't want to pay for it, because they don't care for companions. That's totally cool! We are still getting them though, because other people will pay for them.

Daraklus · April 2021

Vanya wrote: »

There are so many quests,little things to discover and beauties that will take years to finish, I would not worry about Overland. Players are not being creative enough and making most of game, trying finishing off every single quest there is explore all, I ma currenyl on break and when I return I will feel I barely even started.

I without offence believe a lot of players do not realise how impossibly giganitc game is and has to offer and they complain, for even above average player with time on his /her hands there is years of content to complete alone just story and quests,explortation can easiyl take several years of your life , how many players can say they finised off every single quest there is so far ,read all books and talked to every NPC , there is one way to do it, but do you care enough to learn something about lore, it all depends what we want

It doesn't matter if you have so much fun and interesting content in the game... If people get bored playing it.

Reason I have fun playing the other Elder Scrolls games, and other games for that matter, is because they are not boring, they keep me invested. Part of it has to do with difficulty.

The only time I ever completed any questline was in the time before One Tamriel. When things actually put up a fight and I had to approach enemies strategically and make good use of my abilities or I'd get killed. It was good, it was fun, and I even got to make use of Stealth outside of my Thief character.

But Casual-Elitists like to ignore this and keep spreading misinformation that Craglorn or Veteran zones weren't popular because of "Game Too Hard".

Can I also just say that I don't like these people? Because they act superior towards everyone and then tell you to stay away from Overland, or to "Nerf urself". How is that any different from some Veteran Trial player telling others to stay away from Veteran dungeons and saying "Git gud"?

SilverBride wrote: »

[
Maybe some people weren't playing when the game was new, or maybe they forgot, but we had veteran zones and they failed. More players complained than not and I remember what a struggle it was. I only ran through the vet zones once and never did it again. I finally ended up quitting for a few years after Craglorn was introduced..

[snip]

The reason Veteran Zones weren't popular is because it split the playerbase too much, and because it made the questing linear. There could have been one or two people who didn't like the difficulty, but overall the main complaint was "This is splitting the playerbase too much, can you do something about this?"

Craglorn I can't say much about because I never played in it. From the sounds of it, people weren't happy with how that outside of the main quests, the zone was basically just a place for daily quests (And nothing else), and complaints about having to wait around for their mates in order to do stuff.

At the very least Veteran Zones were soloable and posed a challenge.

[Edited to remove Abusive Language]

Abelon · April 2021

I am a hundred percent for some version of more difficult overland/bosses, whatever. But this thread is going downhill fast, maybe it should get closed already.

Jeffrey530 · April 2021

Abelon wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Why is it - whenever somebody brings up the idea of a separate optional instance that a player can opt into if they want - other people frame it as if they are trying to enforce everyone to experience

Being optional doesn't mean people can't oppose to the idea, since devs have limited time and resources that we would prefer them to focus on somewhere else.

Sure, if optional vet overland is to be implemented to please a particular crowd, let's also implement optional solo trials, optional pve cyrodil, optional pvp overland then fair enough. It is all optional right? Why would anyone oppose any of these and deny people of their fun.

That's exactly the point of chapters and dlcs though... The Imperial City dlc is literally optional pvp overland, mate.... People do occasionally ask for pve cyrodil and who knows if anything will become of it. Companions seem to be a step towards "solo trials" and I could imagine that that too will come eventually.

I'm not sure what else to say here... You can oppose those... I mean you can do anything as long as you follow the forum rules. Is there much of a point to that? I don't know. You don't exactly finance the whole game development by yourself. The playerbase is made up of many different groups of players. Look at Blackwood. Some people don't want to pay for it, because they don't care for companions. That's totally cool! We are still getting them though, because other people will pay for them.

I don't even know what you are talking about. Are you trying to pitch for vet overland as a separate dlc/chapter?

What a stretch to say companions are a step towards solo trials, when we don't even know how much dps/healing/tanking they can do. Plus you need 11 others for a trial.

Laughable, imperial city is optional? Show me a tab to turn the pvp aspect off so I can simply pve in it.

Is there a point to oppose anyone's ideas? Seriously? Yes of course or else what would the forum be for. Are we all here just to support every single ridiculous idea? We all finance the game together so we can voice our opinion no?

Iccotak · April 2021

Abelon wrote: »

I am a hundred percent for some version of more difficult overland/bosses, whatever. But this thread is going downhill fast, maybe it should get closed already.

I mean from what I can tell it can be annoying of having to clarify a point like - “We aren’t asking for Old Craglorn and that zone failed for more reasons than difficulty”

Yet old Craglorn is always brought up by the same 1-3 people as a valid counter argument when it’s not.

It’s also frustrating when it feels like some people deliberately misrepresent what your saying - or start throwing accusations that those advocating have some underhanded goal.

But you’re right, we should aim for a civil discussion.