I am just happy more people on forum are complaining about hyper inflation

ThorianB · April 2021

ForzaRammer wrote: »

There is nothing healthy about price doubling year to year.

What prices have doubled year over year? And why is this not healthy in a virtual economy?

What is your evidence on your claim ‘inflation is a normal part of healthy economy’?

Take an economics class
Google???
Wikipedia
Ask an economics teacher or professor.

Inflation is a natural occurrence in a healthy economy. A virtual economy does not play by the same exact rules though. I will give you a free lesson in virtual economics though:

Gold is literally generated out of thin air unlike real currency which requires some sort of "faith" and backing in that currency by its users.
NPCs don't care how much gold is in the game, they buy and sell for the same price now that they did 5 years ago. Likewise the sinks such as housing and gear repair have also never changed.
Everything you can buy from a guild trader, you can acquire on your own. I know this for a fact because not only do i acquire everything i can get on guild trader on my own but i also have trading as a major activity in ESO( and formerly Eve Online).

Conclusions:
* Gold has the same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago for the things that you can't acquire yourself and need to spend gold on.
* Any items in which you think are the victims of inflation or hyper inflation are items you can acquire yourself. Their price is only relevant if you refuse to acquire the items yourself. If you refuse to acquire said items yourself, then you will pay the price that the sellers want, or you will go without.
* Technically speaking based on the evidence i just presented to you, ESO has an inflation level of 0% since gold has the exact same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago.

Any questions?

You are claiming ur opinion as facts without presenting evidence.

Correction...

* My first paragraph = Opinion
* My second paragraph = Observation
* My third paragraph = Observation followed by opinion.

Observations ARE evidence. Since those are my observations, i can verify that they are factual statements.

To people like u it’s a merely double price year to year, not the 50% every month defined by the economist.

People like me? You mean people who understand economics and has became uber rich in games because of it? You can't hyper inflate one item. Inflation and hyperinflation are measured off a currencies purchasing power against the CPI. The inflation rate in ESO is 0% because X gold will buy the exact same things now, it did 5 years ago. If you use to pay someone 10k for 50 butterfly wings, but now they want 10k for 20 butterfly wings, that isn't inflation. That is supply and demand. You have the choice to get those wings yourself. But you are choosing to pay someone else to get them for you so you can spend your time doing something else. They decided their time is worth 10k to get you 20 wings. You have to decide if its worth 10k to save the time it would take you to get 20 wings.

But if you actually pay attention to what is going on in argentina, you’d see that annual inflation rate, according to statistica.com is not even 100%.

What does the price of beeswax in Argentina have to do with the price of Dreughs Wax in Vivec City?

Also according to statistica.com, the unemployment in argentina also been rising for last 5 years. If you think 10% unemployment rate indicates healthy economy, I don’t know what is unhealthy other than venezuela and zimbabwe.

Why are you talking about Argentina?

And the other flaw with your logic is that you claimed hyper inflation only existed on upgrade mats.

I didn't make any such claims. You are reading things that aren't there.

Have you ever read anything on news or books that claim inflation can work on just 1 product and no other product?

Inflation isn't... based on products... at all. It's... based on...economies. Inflation is based on the purchasing power of a currency across the entire economy using the CPI.

spartaxoxo · April 2021

ForzaRammer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Auth3nticGlitch wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Are those really the ways most players gain gold?

When I think of quick ways to gain lots of gold through gameplay, I don't ever recommend "Yo, play PVP so if your alliance wins you too can make 19,000 gold every month!" I think my personal "Thanks for participating!" Reward from the Grand Warlord is usually around 3,000 gold a month?

Just saying.

Haha right? Whenever I need to make gold I’ll go farming mats, overland sets, daily quests which provide motifs, recipes etc and sell all of it. Not to mention deconstruction and refining jewellery mats so I get the grains/plating I can sell.
The last resort is fishing for perfect roe or psijic satchels but fishing is hardly rewardable especially considering I can filet 600 fish and due to rngesus sometimes only get 2 perfect roe, which takes hours of fishing to get.
Ngl, I hate the prices being so high when I go to purchase something but the prices I can sell the items I farm is starting to balance everything out for me.

Gaining mats or motif is not gaining gold directly.
It does not contribute to inflation.
Only direct gold gain out of thin air cause inflation.

Yes, but they also demonstrate part of the issue with restricting gold generation from gameplay. Farming stuff to sell to other players may not be gold generation, but it's a lot more profitable than any source of gold generation from gameplay. Players who farm stuff to sell will always by able to accumulate gold through trading - its gold transfer, not gold creation, but those players won't lack for gold to buy what they want. On the other hand, it's the players who typically get their gold from gameplay who have much less gold and who complain that their meager gold doesn't let them buy what they need.

When you throttle the ability of players to get gold from the Justice System, Antiquities, or Crafting Writs, or questing, you also throttle the ability of players to make decent amounts of gold without selling stuff to other players. That's immediately harmful to players who don't like trading guilds. It's secondarily harmful to players who don't like to be self-sufficient farmers, since they still need stuff, but now they can't get the gold through gameplay to buy what they need except through even greater effort.

Most of my gold comes through trading materials, at this point. If you throttle gold from gameplay, it's not going to hurt me much, because I have reserves and I'm willing to farm mats that would otherwise be a big gold outlay. But at 8 million gold, I'm rich compared to the average player.

But for new players, throttling their ability to get gold through gameplay is only going to force them into farming stuff for sale or leave them perpetually gold-poor. More importantly, from a game design standpoint, it takes away rewards from normal gameplay, and instead encourages players to join in the trading minigame of gold transfer between players.

- I say this as someone who, when I was a brand new player terrified of joining a guild, made my gold by harvesting mats and selling them to the NPC vendors. Yeah, feel free to laugh. Hey, a stack of 200 iron sold for 800 gold! Similarly, when I made a brand new character on the EU server for a day, my starting gold came from stealing stuff in Vulkhel Guard and hawking it to the fence. So seriously, when you throttle sources of gold from gameplay, players who don't want to join guilds are going to get hit hard. New players are going to struggle to gain gold unless they quickly start farming accessible stuff like reagents to sell and join a trading guild.

Gold transfer should be a important part of game play.

Trading guild is a system unique to this game. It should be featured more.

Nerfing direct gold gain make trade guild more important.

This is a good thing, show the alternative to a boring auction house.

Claims hyper inflation is morally wrong
Also claims gold gain being monopolized by a few trading guilds is good.

I don't follow the logic here tbh. Please make it make sense.

CableBomb · April 2021

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along

I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.

Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.

And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.

I like that there are times where things are expensive as hell. Also, golding something out or having a 150% experience pot should be rare and considered as such. And like the first reply said, sometimes to make gold you gotta work.

For example, I made an easy million-plus a per week leading up to the recent events just farming mats. But I had to farm a lot. Like it was an effort beyond just enjoying the vibe of the zone I was in and the initial excitement of picking flowers and stuff. Because while I love to farm, to make millions you gotta do it even when you'd otherwise prefer not to.

So I guess I agree with first responder... l2e (learn to earn).

spartaxoxo · April 2021

ThorianB wrote: »

Inflation is based on the purchasing power of a currency across the entire economy using the CPI.

Game economies and their inflation are typically calculated by the player economy not the NPCs, although NPC prices for various similar goods have risen over the years.

Developers will introduce sinks or faucets as necessary to ensure a good player economy.

They'll take a player "basket of good" and monitor the changes in prices of those goods to measure inflation, and determine if a player economy is healthy.

Amottica · April 2021

In the short time I have been playing this game, less than two months, I have seen mention buying and selling crowns for the cash shop in this game. Every game I have seen where cash shop items, or in this case, cash shop currency, are bought and sold in-game there has been a strong activity of third-party groups selling the in-game currency.

Essentially that third party brings in more in-game currently to the game which drives inflation of both regular items and the cash shop items. This third-party group has the direct effect of printing money and pushing into the game's economy.

Maybe this group has a good handle on preventing these third-party groups from farming gold in ESO. If they do then OP has a solid point. If Zenimax does not and these businesses are active here then reducing the gold we gain from legitimately playing the game will only harm the legitimate players.

Just my thought. I expect some to disagree as these types of operations are very clever so it is hard for us to see them farming gold. A google search for gold in the game would probably offer more enlightenment.

kargen27 · April 2021

Still not a significant number of players complaining about prices. The forums represent a very small percentage of overall players. Even within the forums though we see an increase in these types of threads it is mostly the same people claiming there is inflation. It is human nature to speak up more when we are unhappy than when we are satisfied so the low number of actual people complaining leads me to believe there is no problem.

Playing in the game and understanding how events affect the economy I know there is no significant inflation. There is a fluid and thriving economy. An economy that has many tiers depending on the time you want too invest just like most every other aspect of the game. The economy is healthy and working well. Let it be.

And scrying in artaeum is a horrible way to make gold.

code65536 · April 2021

Prices are going up because the game is rewarding more gold than desirable goods.

So there's more gold chasing after an insufficient amount of "stuff".

The biggest gold faucet in the game is daily writs. For example, PC/EU is not my main server (I live in the US, and PC/NA is my home), so I'm not in any trade guilds on PC/EU. But I have almost 40 million gold on PC/EU. Where does it come from? Doing writs every day on multiple characters.

How do we fix this? Simple. Reduce the gold reward from daily writs. Increase the material rewards from daily writs to compensate. Now you have less gold chasing after more stuff and prices will deflate.

When Undaunted Plunder was first introduced on the PTS years ago, I argued that it would be better to reward players with things like alchemy satchels rather than plunder. Players don't consume gold doing trials--they consume material goods. And they should be compensated with material goods in return. Otherwise, they're sinking material goods and getting gold to chase after a supply of material goods that doesn't increase.

The OP's suggestion is bad for a number of reasons:

They're proposing a direct nerf to rewards rather than a rebalance of the ratio of reward type. People want something in return for the time that they put in. The problem isn't that people are being rewarded too much for their time. It's that they're being rewarded with the wrong thing.
They're proposing nerfs to the wrong things. PvP rewards? LOL.

Brrrofski · April 2021

Gold mat prices have been same on xbox eu for like 5 years. They go up 1k or so after a patch with lots of new gear or meta change (pvp and pve). They quickly go back.

So maybe it's a PC thing with add-ons? People see all the prices and go with the highest, pushing the average up?

Only thing that jumps in price on xbox is when some sets become meta again. Spinners, spriggans etc have jumped because they're now sought after. And XP pots/roe etc have since CP cap increase. But that's to be expected and IS supply and demand.

remosito · April 2021

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along

I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.

Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.

And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.

So all those with millions and millions will instantly become even richer???

You one of them?

tmbrinks · April 2021

code65536 wrote: »

Prices are going up because the game is rewarding more gold than desirable goods.

So there's more gold chasing after an insufficient amount of "stuff".

The biggest gold faucet in the game is daily writs. For example, PC/EU is not my main server (I live in the US, and PC/NA is my home), so I'm not in any trade guilds on PC/EU. But I have almost 40 million gold on PC/EU. Where does it come from? Doing writs every day on multiple characters.

How do we fix this? Simple. Reduce the gold reward from daily writs. Increase the material rewards from daily writs to compensate. Now you have less gold chasing after more stuff and prices will deflate.

When Undaunted Plunder was first introduced on the PTS years ago, I argued that it would be better to reward players with things like alchemy satchels rather than plunder. Players don't consume gold doing trials--they consume material goods. And they should be compensated with material goods in return. Otherwise, they're sinking material goods and getting gold to chase after a supply of material goods that doesn't increase.

The OP's suggestion is bad for a number of reasons:
They're proposing a direct nerf to rewards rather than a rebalance of the ratio of reward type. People want something in return for the time that they put in. The problem isn't that people are being rewarded too much for their time. It's that they're being rewarded with the wrong thing.

They're proposing nerfs to the wrong things. PvP rewards? LOL.

Are you saying you want to turn off my gold faucet from writs Code?

ForzaRammer · April 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Auth3nticGlitch wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Are those really the ways most players gain gold?

When I think of quick ways to gain lots of gold through gameplay, I don't ever recommend "Yo, play PVP so if your alliance wins you too can make 19,000 gold every month!" I think my personal "Thanks for participating!" Reward from the Grand Warlord is usually around 3,000 gold a month?

Just saying.

Haha right? Whenever I need to make gold I’ll go farming mats, overland sets, daily quests which provide motifs, recipes etc and sell all of it. Not to mention deconstruction and refining jewellery mats so I get the grains/plating I can sell.
The last resort is fishing for perfect roe or psijic satchels but fishing is hardly rewardable especially considering I can filet 600 fish and due to rngesus sometimes only get 2 perfect roe, which takes hours of fishing to get.
Ngl, I hate the prices being so high when I go to purchase something but the prices I can sell the items I farm is starting to balance everything out for me.

Gaining mats or motif is not gaining gold directly.
It does not contribute to inflation.
Only direct gold gain out of thin air cause inflation.

Yes, but they also demonstrate part of the issue with restricting gold generation from gameplay. Farming stuff to sell to other players may not be gold generation, but it's a lot more profitable than any source of gold generation from gameplay. Players who farm stuff to sell will always by able to accumulate gold through trading - its gold transfer, not gold creation, but those players won't lack for gold to buy what they want. On the other hand, it's the players who typically get their gold from gameplay who have much less gold and who complain that their meager gold doesn't let them buy what they need.

When you throttle the ability of players to get gold from the Justice System, Antiquities, or Crafting Writs, or questing, you also throttle the ability of players to make decent amounts of gold without selling stuff to other players. That's immediately harmful to players who don't like trading guilds. It's secondarily harmful to players who don't like to be self-sufficient farmers, since they still need stuff, but now they can't get the gold through gameplay to buy what they need except through even greater effort.

Most of my gold comes through trading materials, at this point. If you throttle gold from gameplay, it's not going to hurt me much, because I have reserves and I'm willing to farm mats that would otherwise be a big gold outlay. But at 8 million gold, I'm rich compared to the average player.

But for new players, throttling their ability to get gold through gameplay is only going to force them into farming stuff for sale or leave them perpetually gold-poor. More importantly, from a game design standpoint, it takes away rewards from normal gameplay, and instead encourages players to join in the trading minigame of gold transfer between players.

- I say this as someone who, when I was a brand new player terrified of joining a guild, made my gold by harvesting mats and selling them to the NPC vendors. Yeah, feel free to laugh. Hey, a stack of 200 iron sold for 800 gold! Similarly, when I made a brand new character on the EU server for a day, my starting gold came from stealing stuff in Vulkhel Guard and hawking it to the fence. So seriously, when you throttle sources of gold from gameplay, players who don't want to join guilds are going to get hit hard. New players are going to struggle to gain gold unless they quickly start farming accessible stuff like reagents to sell and join a trading guild.

Gold transfer should be a important part of game play.

Trading guild is a system unique to this game. It should be featured more.

Nerfing direct gold gain make trade guild more important.

This is a good thing, show the alternative to a boring auction house.

Claims hyper inflation is morally wrong
Also claims gold gain being monopolized by a few trading guilds is good.

I don't follow the logic here tbh. Please make it make sense.

Trade guild don’t gain gold directly. I see no issue with any indirect gold gain.

Balance issue possibly exist. But that’s for a different discussion.

ForzaRammer · April 2021

code65536 wrote: »

Prices are going up because the game is rewarding more gold than desirable goods.

So there's more gold chasing after an insufficient amount of "stuff".

The biggest gold faucet in the game is daily writs. For example, PC/EU is not my main server (I live in the US, and PC/NA is my home), so I'm not in any trade guilds on PC/EU. But I have almost 40 million gold on PC/EU. Where does it come from? Doing writs every day on multiple characters.

How do we fix this? Simple. Reduce the gold reward from daily writs. Increase the material rewards from daily writs to compensate. Now you have less gold chasing after more stuff and prices will deflate.

When Undaunted Plunder was first introduced on the PTS years ago, I argued that it would be better to reward players with things like alchemy satchels rather than plunder. Players don't consume gold doing trials--they consume material goods. And they should be compensated with material goods in return. Otherwise, they're sinking material goods and getting gold to chase after a supply of material goods that doesn't increase.

The OP's suggestion is bad for a number of reasons:
They're proposing a direct nerf to rewards rather than a rebalance of the ratio of reward type. People want something in return for the time that they put in. The problem isn't that people are being rewarded too much for their time. It's that they're being rewarded with the wrong thing.

They're proposing nerfs to the wrong things. PvP rewards? LOL.

I mean sure, I have no issue with increase reward that’s not direct gold.

ThorianB · April 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

Inflation is based on the purchasing power of a currency across the entire economy using the CPI.

Game economies and their inflation are typically calculated by the player economy not the NPCs, although NPC prices for various similar goods have risen over the years.

Developers will introduce sinks or faucets as necessary to ensure a good player economy.

They'll take a player "basket of good" and monitor the changes in prices of those goods to measure inflation, and determine if a player economy is healthy.

Oh i know, but if they want to stretch things a bit to suit their argument, i can too. It is normal, as the player base gets richer, for everything to get more expensive in a game economy. Besides a few select items that are out of whack for obvious reasons, the economy is in a very healthy state.

The people who complain about items being to expensive don't want to farm and want the economy to reduced to how much gold they earn doing what they do now, rather than adapting their playstyle to earn more gold. It is REALLY easy to earn gold in this game and there is very little a person needs to spend gold on.

ForzaRammer · April 2021

ThorianB wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

There is nothing healthy about price doubling year to year.

What prices have doubled year over year? And why is this not healthy in a virtual economy?

What is your evidence on your claim ‘inflation is a normal part of healthy economy’?

Take an economics class

Google???

Wikipedia

Ask an economics teacher or professor.

Inflation is a natural occurrence in a healthy economy. A virtual economy does not play by the same exact rules though. I will give you a free lesson in virtual economics though:
Gold is literally generated out of thin air unlike real currency which requires some sort of "faith" and backing in that currency by its users.

NPCs don't care how much gold is in the game, they buy and sell for the same price now that they did 5 years ago. Likewise the sinks such as housing and gear repair have also never changed.

Everything you can buy from a guild trader, you can acquire on your own. I know this for a fact because not only do i acquire everything i can get on guild trader on my own but i also have trading as a major activity in ESO( and formerly Eve Online).

Conclusions:
* Gold has the same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago for the things that you can't acquire yourself and need to spend gold on.
* Any items in which you think are the victims of inflation or hyper inflation are items you can acquire yourself. Their price is only relevant if you refuse to acquire the items yourself. If you refuse to acquire said items yourself, then you will pay the price that the sellers want, or you will go without.
* Technically speaking based on the evidence i just presented to you, ESO has an inflation level of 0% since gold has the exact same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago.

Any questions?

You are claiming ur opinion as facts without presenting evidence.

Correction...

* My first paragraph = Opinion
* My second paragraph = Observation
* My third paragraph = Observation followed by opinion.

Observations ARE evidence. Since those are my observations, i can verify that they are factual statements.

To people like u it’s a merely double price year to year, not the 50% every month defined by the economist.

People like me? You mean people who understand economics and has became uber rich in games because of it? You can't hyper inflate one item. Inflation and hyperinflation are measured off a currencies purchasing power against the CPI. The inflation rate in ESO is 0% because X gold will buy the exact same things now, it did 5 years ago. If you use to pay someone 10k for 50 butterfly wings, but now they want 10k for 20 butterfly wings, that isn't inflation. That is supply and demand. You have the choice to get those wings yourself. But you are choosing to pay someone else to get them for you so you can spend your time doing something else. They decided their time is worth 10k to get you 20 wings. You have to decide if its worth 10k to save the time it would take you to get 20 wings.

But if you actually pay attention to what is going on in argentina, you’d see that annual inflation rate, according to statistica.com is not even 100%.

What does the price of beeswax in Argentina have to do with the price of Dreughs Wax in Vivec City?

Also according to statistica.com, the unemployment in argentina also been rising for last 5 years. If you think 10% unemployment rate indicates healthy economy, I don’t know what is unhealthy other than venezuela and zimbabwe.

Why are you talking about Argentina?

And the other flaw with your logic is that you claimed hyper inflation only existed on upgrade mats.

I didn't make any such claims. You are reading things that aren't there.

Have you ever read anything on news or books that claim inflation can work on just 1 product and no other product?

Inflation isn't... based on products... at all. It's... based on...economies. Inflation is based on the purchasing power of a currency across the entire economy using the CPI.

1. Wax alloy rosin mundane rune wax price columbine has doubled year to year. Crown more than double year to year. And there are more.
You still have not shown me why inflation indicates healthy economy. Don’t tell me take economic class, tell me why.

2. You have the same purchase power on things sold by npc. You don’t have the same purchase power on things npc don’t sell since same amount gold buy less butterfly wings now than a year ago.

3. Your original second paragraph only shows supply and demand shift exist, supply demand shift and inflation are not mutually exclusive, you yet to give any evidence they are.

4. Argentina is an example where it’s 50% annual inflation and economy is unhealthy. I don’t see how you can claim 100% inflation is healthy economy.

5. You definitely claimed inflation only existed on gold upgrade mats for master writ in the original reply, now you just backtracking it.

tmbrinks · April 2021

ForzaRammer wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

There is nothing healthy about price doubling year to year.

What prices have doubled year over year? And why is this not healthy in a virtual economy?

What is your evidence on your claim ‘inflation is a normal part of healthy economy’?

Take an economics class

Google???

Wikipedia

Ask an economics teacher or professor.

Inflation is a natural occurrence in a healthy economy. A virtual economy does not play by the same exact rules though. I will give you a free lesson in virtual economics though:
Gold is literally generated out of thin air unlike real currency which requires some sort of "faith" and backing in that currency by its users.

NPCs don't care how much gold is in the game, they buy and sell for the same price now that they did 5 years ago. Likewise the sinks such as housing and gear repair have also never changed.

Everything you can buy from a guild trader, you can acquire on your own. I know this for a fact because not only do i acquire everything i can get on guild trader on my own but i also have trading as a major activity in ESO( and formerly Eve Online).

Conclusions:
* Gold has the same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago for the things that you can't acquire yourself and need to spend gold on.
* Any items in which you think are the victims of inflation or hyper inflation are items you can acquire yourself. Their price is only relevant if you refuse to acquire the items yourself. If you refuse to acquire said items yourself, then you will pay the price that the sellers want, or you will go without.
* Technically speaking based on the evidence i just presented to you, ESO has an inflation level of 0% since gold has the exact same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago.

Any questions?

You are claiming ur opinion as facts without presenting evidence.

Correction...

* My first paragraph = Opinion
* My second paragraph = Observation
* My third paragraph = Observation followed by opinion.

Observations ARE evidence. Since those are my observations, i can verify that they are factual statements.

To people like u it’s a merely double price year to year, not the 50% every month defined by the economist.

People like me? You mean people who understand economics and has became uber rich in games because of it? You can't hyper inflate one item. Inflation and hyperinflation are measured off a currencies purchasing power against the CPI. The inflation rate in ESO is 0% because X gold will buy the exact same things now, it did 5 years ago. If you use to pay someone 10k for 50 butterfly wings, but now they want 10k for 20 butterfly wings, that isn't inflation. That is supply and demand. You have the choice to get those wings yourself. But you are choosing to pay someone else to get them for you so you can spend your time doing something else. They decided their time is worth 10k to get you 20 wings. You have to decide if its worth 10k to save the time it would take you to get 20 wings.

But if you actually pay attention to what is going on in argentina, you’d see that annual inflation rate, according to statistica.com is not even 100%.

What does the price of beeswax in Argentina have to do with the price of Dreughs Wax in Vivec City?

Also according to statistica.com, the unemployment in argentina also been rising for last 5 years. If you think 10% unemployment rate indicates healthy economy, I don’t know what is unhealthy other than venezuela and zimbabwe.

Why are you talking about Argentina?

And the other flaw with your logic is that you claimed hyper inflation only existed on upgrade mats.

I didn't make any such claims. You are reading things that aren't there.

Have you ever read anything on news or books that claim inflation can work on just 1 product and no other product?

Inflation isn't... based on products... at all. It's... based on...economies. Inflation is based on the purchasing power of a currency across the entire economy using the CPI.

4. Argentina is an example where it’s 50% annual inflation and economy is unhealthy. I don’t see how you can claim 100% inflation is healthy economy.

You can't use "annual" inflation in the real world and "annual" inflation in a video game that will only be around for maybe 20 years at most.

As best you could get a proxy by looking at the "monthly" inflation in game and compare that to the "annual" real world inflation.

Grandchamp1989 · April 2021

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along

I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.

Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.

And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.

That would actually be an excellent gold sink!

VaranisArano · April 2021

ForzaRammer wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Auth3nticGlitch wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Are those really the ways most players gain gold?

When I think of quick ways to gain lots of gold through gameplay, I don't ever recommend "Yo, play PVP so if your alliance wins you too can make 19,000 gold every month!" I think my personal "Thanks for participating!" Reward from the Grand Warlord is usually around 3,000 gold a month?

Just saying.

Haha right? Whenever I need to make gold I’ll go farming mats, overland sets, daily quests which provide motifs, recipes etc and sell all of it. Not to mention deconstruction and refining jewellery mats so I get the grains/plating I can sell.
The last resort is fishing for perfect roe or psijic satchels but fishing is hardly rewardable especially considering I can filet 600 fish and due to rngesus sometimes only get 2 perfect roe, which takes hours of fishing to get.
Ngl, I hate the prices being so high when I go to purchase something but the prices I can sell the items I farm is starting to balance everything out for me.

Gaining mats or motif is not gaining gold directly.
It does not contribute to inflation.
Only direct gold gain out of thin air cause inflation.

Yes, but they also demonstrate part of the issue with restricting gold generation from gameplay. Farming stuff to sell to other players may not be gold generation, but it's a lot more profitable than any source of gold generation from gameplay. Players who farm stuff to sell will always by able to accumulate gold through trading - its gold transfer, not gold creation, but those players won't lack for gold to buy what they want. On the other hand, it's the players who typically get their gold from gameplay who have much less gold and who complain that their meager gold doesn't let them buy what they need.

When you throttle the ability of players to get gold from the Justice System, Antiquities, or Crafting Writs, or questing, you also throttle the ability of players to make decent amounts of gold without selling stuff to other players. That's immediately harmful to players who don't like trading guilds. It's secondarily harmful to players who don't like to be self-sufficient farmers, since they still need stuff, but now they can't get the gold through gameplay to buy what they need except through even greater effort.

Most of my gold comes through trading materials, at this point. If you throttle gold from gameplay, it's not going to hurt me much, because I have reserves and I'm willing to farm mats that would otherwise be a big gold outlay. But at 8 million gold, I'm rich compared to the average player.

But for new players, throttling their ability to get gold through gameplay is only going to force them into farming stuff for sale or leave them perpetually gold-poor. More importantly, from a game design standpoint, it takes away rewards from normal gameplay, and instead encourages players to join in the trading minigame of gold transfer between players.

- I say this as someone who, when I was a brand new player terrified of joining a guild, made my gold by harvesting mats and selling them to the NPC vendors. Yeah, feel free to laugh. Hey, a stack of 200 iron sold for 800 gold! Similarly, when I made a brand new character on the EU server for a day, my starting gold came from stealing stuff in Vulkhel Guard and hawking it to the fence. So seriously, when you throttle sources of gold from gameplay, players who don't want to join guilds are going to get hit hard. New players are going to struggle to gain gold unless they quickly start farming accessible stuff like reagents to sell and join a trading guild.

Gold transfer should be a important part of game play.

Trading guild is a system unique to this game. It should be featured more.

Nerfing direct gold gain make trade guild more important.

This is a good thing, show the alternative to a boring auction house.

Claims hyper inflation is morally wrong
Also claims gold gain being monopolized by a few trading guilds is good.

I don't follow the logic here tbh. Please make it make sense.

Trade guild don’t gain gold directly. I see no issue with any indirect gold gain.

Balance issue possibly exist. But that’s for a different discussion.

I don't view the balance issues resulting from forcing players into trading guilds if they want to make gold efficiently after all gameplay sources of gold have been cut off or throttled as a different discussion from the one where we're talking about your suggestion to cut off or throttle gameplay sources of gold.

To be specific, we're talking about:
- new players will have a much harder time making gold through normal gameplay, forcing them to farm goods for trade or be poorer than a new player can be now
- players who dislike trading guilds just simply have a harder time making gold through normal gameplay
- there's only a maximum of about 98,500 slots open for players at public guild traders. Have you considered how to manage access to guild traders once you cut off or throttle gold through gameplay?
- console and PC trading guilds operate differently. Console players often have to pay guild dues, making it harder for gold-poor new players to start trading since their gold through gameplay is cut off or throttled.

You didn't confirm that you were advocating for this above, but neither have you denied it. So I'm not sure what to think.

Lest you say, "Oh, that's a different discussion," consider that in order for your idea to be workable, ZOS is going to have to look at how to deal with the balance issues before they let any changes go Live. It's ZOS who has to think about how they want a new player to experience the game , such as making gold by Crafting or questing, or whether the new player should be even more gold-poor by the time they finish the latest Chapter and then start farming stuff to trade if they want money.

So if your idea is workable - no, more than that - is desirable, what's your answer to those balance concerns?

ForzaRammer · April 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

There is nothing healthy about price doubling year to year.

What prices have doubled year over year? And why is this not healthy in a virtual economy?

What is your evidence on your claim ‘inflation is a normal part of healthy economy’?

Take an economics class

Google???

Wikipedia

Ask an economics teacher or professor.

Inflation is a natural occurrence in a healthy economy. A virtual economy does not play by the same exact rules though. I will give you a free lesson in virtual economics though:
Gold is literally generated out of thin air unlike real currency which requires some sort of "faith" and backing in that currency by its users.

NPCs don't care how much gold is in the game, they buy and sell for the same price now that they did 5 years ago. Likewise the sinks such as housing and gear repair have also never changed.

Everything you can buy from a guild trader, you can acquire on your own. I know this for a fact because not only do i acquire everything i can get on guild trader on my own but i also have trading as a major activity in ESO( and formerly Eve Online).

Conclusions:
* Gold has the same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago for the things that you can't acquire yourself and need to spend gold on.
* Any items in which you think are the victims of inflation or hyper inflation are items you can acquire yourself. Their price is only relevant if you refuse to acquire the items yourself. If you refuse to acquire said items yourself, then you will pay the price that the sellers want, or you will go without.
* Technically speaking based on the evidence i just presented to you, ESO has an inflation level of 0% since gold has the exact same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago.

Any questions?

You are claiming ur opinion as facts without presenting evidence.

Correction...

* My first paragraph = Opinion
* My second paragraph = Observation
* My third paragraph = Observation followed by opinion.

Observations ARE evidence. Since those are my observations, i can verify that they are factual statements.

To people like u it’s a merely double price year to year, not the 50% every month defined by the economist.

People like me? You mean people who understand economics and has became uber rich in games because of it? You can't hyper inflate one item. Inflation and hyperinflation are measured off a currencies purchasing power against the CPI. The inflation rate in ESO is 0% because X gold will buy the exact same things now, it did 5 years ago. If you use to pay someone 10k for 50 butterfly wings, but now they want 10k for 20 butterfly wings, that isn't inflation. That is supply and demand. You have the choice to get those wings yourself. But you are choosing to pay someone else to get them for you so you can spend your time doing something else. They decided their time is worth 10k to get you 20 wings. You have to decide if its worth 10k to save the time it would take you to get 20 wings.

But if you actually pay attention to what is going on in argentina, you’d see that annual inflation rate, according to statistica.com is not even 100%.

What does the price of beeswax in Argentina have to do with the price of Dreughs Wax in Vivec City?

Also according to statistica.com, the unemployment in argentina also been rising for last 5 years. If you think 10% unemployment rate indicates healthy economy, I don’t know what is unhealthy other than venezuela and zimbabwe.

Why are you talking about Argentina?

And the other flaw with your logic is that you claimed hyper inflation only existed on upgrade mats.

I didn't make any such claims. You are reading things that aren't there.

Have you ever read anything on news or books that claim inflation can work on just 1 product and no other product?

Inflation isn't... based on products... at all. It's... based on...economies. Inflation is based on the purchasing power of a currency across the entire economy using the CPI.

4. Argentina is an example where it’s 50% annual inflation and economy is unhealthy. I don’t see how you can claim 100% inflation is healthy economy.

You can't use "annual" inflation in the real world and "annual" inflation in a video game that will only be around for maybe 20 years at most.

As best you could get a proxy by looking at the "monthly" inflation in game and compare that to the "annual" real world inflation.

My reply is, i am not sure yugoslavia countries lasted 20 years.

tmbrinks · April 2021

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

There is nothing healthy about price doubling year to year.

What prices have doubled year over year? And why is this not healthy in a virtual economy?

What is your evidence on your claim ‘inflation is a normal part of healthy economy’?

Take an economics class

Google???

Wikipedia

Ask an economics teacher or professor.

Inflation is a natural occurrence in a healthy economy. A virtual economy does not play by the same exact rules though. I will give you a free lesson in virtual economics though:
Gold is literally generated out of thin air unlike real currency which requires some sort of "faith" and backing in that currency by its users.

NPCs don't care how much gold is in the game, they buy and sell for the same price now that they did 5 years ago. Likewise the sinks such as housing and gear repair have also never changed.

Everything you can buy from a guild trader, you can acquire on your own. I know this for a fact because not only do i acquire everything i can get on guild trader on my own but i also have trading as a major activity in ESO( and formerly Eve Online).

Conclusions:
* Gold has the same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago for the things that you can't acquire yourself and need to spend gold on.
* Any items in which you think are the victims of inflation or hyper inflation are items you can acquire yourself. Their price is only relevant if you refuse to acquire the items yourself. If you refuse to acquire said items yourself, then you will pay the price that the sellers want, or you will go without.
* Technically speaking based on the evidence i just presented to you, ESO has an inflation level of 0% since gold has the exact same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago.

Any questions?

You are claiming ur opinion as facts without presenting evidence.

Correction...

* My first paragraph = Opinion
* My second paragraph = Observation
* My third paragraph = Observation followed by opinion.

Observations ARE evidence. Since those are my observations, i can verify that they are factual statements.

To people like u it’s a merely double price year to year, not the 50% every month defined by the economist.

People like me? You mean people who understand economics and has became uber rich in games because of it? You can't hyper inflate one item. Inflation and hyperinflation are measured off a currencies purchasing power against the CPI. The inflation rate in ESO is 0% because X gold will buy the exact same things now, it did 5 years ago. If you use to pay someone 10k for 50 butterfly wings, but now they want 10k for 20 butterfly wings, that isn't inflation. That is supply and demand. You have the choice to get those wings yourself. But you are choosing to pay someone else to get them for you so you can spend your time doing something else. They decided their time is worth 10k to get you 20 wings. You have to decide if its worth 10k to save the time it would take you to get 20 wings.

But if you actually pay attention to what is going on in argentina, you’d see that annual inflation rate, according to statistica.com is not even 100%.

What does the price of beeswax in Argentina have to do with the price of Dreughs Wax in Vivec City?

Also according to statistica.com, the unemployment in argentina also been rising for last 5 years. If you think 10% unemployment rate indicates healthy economy, I don’t know what is unhealthy other than venezuela and zimbabwe.

Why are you talking about Argentina?

And the other flaw with your logic is that you claimed hyper inflation only existed on upgrade mats.

I didn't make any such claims. You are reading things that aren't there.

Have you ever read anything on news or books that claim inflation can work on just 1 product and no other product?

Inflation isn't... based on products... at all. It's... based on...economies. Inflation is based on the purchasing power of a currency across the entire economy using the CPI.

4. Argentina is an example where it’s 50% annual inflation and economy is unhealthy. I don’t see how you can claim 100% inflation is healthy economy.

You can't use "annual" inflation in the real world and "annual" inflation in a video game that will only be around for maybe 20 years at most.

As best you could get a proxy by looking at the "monthly" inflation in game and compare that to the "annual" real world inflation.

My reply is, i am not sure yugoslavia countries lasted 20 years.

and if we were seeing 100% inflation per month in ESO, I would agree with you. But we aren't.

Inflation is bound to happen until the game either gets a better gold sink or reduces the gold while increasing materials to reduce demand.

Currently, demand is high (still from stickerbook reconstruction) and Gold is plentiful, thus prices are up.

ForzaRammer · April 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Auth3nticGlitch wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Are those really the ways most players gain gold?

When I think of quick ways to gain lots of gold through gameplay, I don't ever recommend "Yo, play PVP so if your alliance wins you too can make 19,000 gold every month!" I think my personal "Thanks for participating!" Reward from the Grand Warlord is usually around 3,000 gold a month?

Just saying.

Haha right? Whenever I need to make gold I’ll go farming mats, overland sets, daily quests which provide motifs, recipes etc and sell all of it. Not to mention deconstruction and refining jewellery mats so I get the grains/plating I can sell.
The last resort is fishing for perfect roe or psijic satchels but fishing is hardly rewardable especially considering I can filet 600 fish and due to rngesus sometimes only get 2 perfect roe, which takes hours of fishing to get.
Ngl, I hate the prices being so high when I go to purchase something but the prices I can sell the items I farm is starting to balance everything out for me.

Gaining mats or motif is not gaining gold directly.
It does not contribute to inflation.
Only direct gold gain out of thin air cause inflation.

Yes, but they also demonstrate part of the issue with restricting gold generation from gameplay. Farming stuff to sell to other players may not be gold generation, but it's a lot more profitable than any source of gold generation from gameplay. Players who farm stuff to sell will always by able to accumulate gold through trading - its gold transfer, not gold creation, but those players won't lack for gold to buy what they want. On the other hand, it's the players who typically get their gold from gameplay who have much less gold and who complain that their meager gold doesn't let them buy what they need.

When you throttle the ability of players to get gold from the Justice System, Antiquities, or Crafting Writs, or questing, you also throttle the ability of players to make decent amounts of gold without selling stuff to other players. That's immediately harmful to players who don't like trading guilds. It's secondarily harmful to players who don't like to be self-sufficient farmers, since they still need stuff, but now they can't get the gold through gameplay to buy what they need except through even greater effort.

Most of my gold comes through trading materials, at this point. If you throttle gold from gameplay, it's not going to hurt me much, because I have reserves and I'm willing to farm mats that would otherwise be a big gold outlay. But at 8 million gold, I'm rich compared to the average player.

But for new players, throttling their ability to get gold through gameplay is only going to force them into farming stuff for sale or leave them perpetually gold-poor. More importantly, from a game design standpoint, it takes away rewards from normal gameplay, and instead encourages players to join in the trading minigame of gold transfer between players.

- I say this as someone who, when I was a brand new player terrified of joining a guild, made my gold by harvesting mats and selling them to the NPC vendors. Yeah, feel free to laugh. Hey, a stack of 200 iron sold for 800 gold! Similarly, when I made a brand new character on the EU server for a day, my starting gold came from stealing stuff in Vulkhel Guard and hawking it to the fence. So seriously, when you throttle sources of gold from gameplay, players who don't want to join guilds are going to get hit hard. New players are going to struggle to gain gold unless they quickly start farming accessible stuff like reagents to sell and join a trading guild.

Gold transfer should be a important part of game play.

Trading guild is a system unique to this game. It should be featured more.

Nerfing direct gold gain make trade guild more important.

This is a good thing, show the alternative to a boring auction house.

Claims hyper inflation is morally wrong
Also claims gold gain being monopolized by a few trading guilds is good.

I don't follow the logic here tbh. Please make it make sense.

Trade guild don’t gain gold directly. I see no issue with any indirect gold gain.

Balance issue possibly exist. But that’s for a different discussion.

I don't view the balance issues resulting from forcing players into trading guilds if they want to make gold efficiently after all gameplay sources of gold have been cut off or throttled as a different discussion from the one where we're talking about your suggestion to cut off or throttle gameplay sources of gold.

To be specific, we're talking about:
- new players will have a much harder time making gold through normal gameplay, forcing them to farm goods for trade or be poorer than a new player can be now
- players who dislike trading guilds just simply have a harder time making gold through normal gameplay
- there's only a maximum of about 98,500 slots open for players at public guild traders. Have you considered how to manage access to guild traders once you cut off or throttle gold through gameplay?
- console and PC trading guilds operate differently. Console players often have to pay guild dues, making it harder for gold-poor new players to start trading since their gold through gameplay is cut off or throttled.

You didn't confirm that you were advocating for this above, but neither have you denied it. So I'm not sure what to think.

Lest you say, "Oh, that's a different discussion," consider that in order for your idea to be workable, ZOS is going to have to look at how to deal with the balance issues before they let any changes go Live. It's ZOS who has to think about how they want a new player to experience the game , such as making gold by Crafting or questing, or whether the new player should be even more gold-poor by the time they finish the latest Chapter and then start farming stuff to trade if they want money.

So if your idea is workable - no, more than that - is desirable, what's your answer to those balance concerns?

Focus of this is gold faucet gold sink and inflation. Not distribution of wealth.

I have no answer to your balance questions.

ForzaRammer · April 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

There is nothing healthy about price doubling year to year.

What prices have doubled year over year? And why is this not healthy in a virtual economy?

What is your evidence on your claim ‘inflation is a normal part of healthy economy’?

Take an economics class

Google???

Wikipedia

Ask an economics teacher or professor.

Inflation is a natural occurrence in a healthy economy. A virtual economy does not play by the same exact rules though. I will give you a free lesson in virtual economics though:
Gold is literally generated out of thin air unlike real currency which requires some sort of "faith" and backing in that currency by its users.

NPCs don't care how much gold is in the game, they buy and sell for the same price now that they did 5 years ago. Likewise the sinks such as housing and gear repair have also never changed.

Everything you can buy from a guild trader, you can acquire on your own. I know this for a fact because not only do i acquire everything i can get on guild trader on my own but i also have trading as a major activity in ESO( and formerly Eve Online).

Conclusions:
* Gold has the same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago for the things that you can't acquire yourself and need to spend gold on.
* Any items in which you think are the victims of inflation or hyper inflation are items you can acquire yourself. Their price is only relevant if you refuse to acquire the items yourself. If you refuse to acquire said items yourself, then you will pay the price that the sellers want, or you will go without.
* Technically speaking based on the evidence i just presented to you, ESO has an inflation level of 0% since gold has the exact same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago.

Any questions?

You are claiming ur opinion as facts without presenting evidence.

Correction...

* My first paragraph = Opinion
* My second paragraph = Observation
* My third paragraph = Observation followed by opinion.

Observations ARE evidence. Since those are my observations, i can verify that they are factual statements.

To people like u it’s a merely double price year to year, not the 50% every month defined by the economist.

People like me? You mean people who understand economics and has became uber rich in games because of it? You can't hyper inflate one item. Inflation and hyperinflation are measured off a currencies purchasing power against the CPI. The inflation rate in ESO is 0% because X gold will buy the exact same things now, it did 5 years ago. If you use to pay someone 10k for 50 butterfly wings, but now they want 10k for 20 butterfly wings, that isn't inflation. That is supply and demand. You have the choice to get those wings yourself. But you are choosing to pay someone else to get them for you so you can spend your time doing something else. They decided their time is worth 10k to get you 20 wings. You have to decide if its worth 10k to save the time it would take you to get 20 wings.

But if you actually pay attention to what is going on in argentina, you’d see that annual inflation rate, according to statistica.com is not even 100%.

What does the price of beeswax in Argentina have to do with the price of Dreughs Wax in Vivec City?

Also according to statistica.com, the unemployment in argentina also been rising for last 5 years. If you think 10% unemployment rate indicates healthy economy, I don’t know what is unhealthy other than venezuela and zimbabwe.

Why are you talking about Argentina?

And the other flaw with your logic is that you claimed hyper inflation only existed on upgrade mats.

I didn't make any such claims. You are reading things that aren't there.

Have you ever read anything on news or books that claim inflation can work on just 1 product and no other product?

Inflation isn't... based on products... at all. It's... based on...economies. Inflation is based on the purchasing power of a currency across the entire economy using the CPI.

4. Argentina is an example where it’s 50% annual inflation and economy is unhealthy. I don’t see how you can claim 100% inflation is healthy economy.

You can't use "annual" inflation in the real world and "annual" inflation in a video game that will only be around for maybe 20 years at most.

As best you could get a proxy by looking at the "monthly" inflation in game and compare that to the "annual" real world inflation.

My reply is, i am not sure yugoslavia countries lasted 20 years.

and if we were seeing 100% inflation per month in ESO, I would agree with you. But we aren't.

Inflation is bound to happen until the game either gets a better gold sink or reduces the gold while increasing materials to reduce demand.

Currently, demand is high (still from stickerbook reconstruction) and Gold is plentiful, thus prices are up.

Ok. So at least you acknowledge inflation exist.

You just don’t think it’s high enough to be concerned.

That’s fair.

tmbrinks · April 2021

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

There is nothing healthy about price doubling year to year.

What prices have doubled year over year? And why is this not healthy in a virtual economy?

What is your evidence on your claim ‘inflation is a normal part of healthy economy’?

Take an economics class

Google???

Wikipedia

Ask an economics teacher or professor.

Inflation is a natural occurrence in a healthy economy. A virtual economy does not play by the same exact rules though. I will give you a free lesson in virtual economics though:
Gold is literally generated out of thin air unlike real currency which requires some sort of "faith" and backing in that currency by its users.

NPCs don't care how much gold is in the game, they buy and sell for the same price now that they did 5 years ago. Likewise the sinks such as housing and gear repair have also never changed.

Everything you can buy from a guild trader, you can acquire on your own. I know this for a fact because not only do i acquire everything i can get on guild trader on my own but i also have trading as a major activity in ESO( and formerly Eve Online).

Conclusions:
* Gold has the same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago for the things that you can't acquire yourself and need to spend gold on.
* Any items in which you think are the victims of inflation or hyper inflation are items you can acquire yourself. Their price is only relevant if you refuse to acquire the items yourself. If you refuse to acquire said items yourself, then you will pay the price that the sellers want, or you will go without.
* Technically speaking based on the evidence i just presented to you, ESO has an inflation level of 0% since gold has the exact same purchasing power now as it did 5 years ago.

Any questions?

You are claiming ur opinion as facts without presenting evidence.

Correction...

* My first paragraph = Opinion
* My second paragraph = Observation
* My third paragraph = Observation followed by opinion.

Observations ARE evidence. Since those are my observations, i can verify that they are factual statements.

To people like u it’s a merely double price year to year, not the 50% every month defined by the economist.

People like me? You mean people who understand economics and has became uber rich in games because of it? You can't hyper inflate one item. Inflation and hyperinflation are measured off a currencies purchasing power against the CPI. The inflation rate in ESO is 0% because X gold will buy the exact same things now, it did 5 years ago. If you use to pay someone 10k for 50 butterfly wings, but now they want 10k for 20 butterfly wings, that isn't inflation. That is supply and demand. You have the choice to get those wings yourself. But you are choosing to pay someone else to get them for you so you can spend your time doing something else. They decided their time is worth 10k to get you 20 wings. You have to decide if its worth 10k to save the time it would take you to get 20 wings.

But if you actually pay attention to what is going on in argentina, you’d see that annual inflation rate, according to statistica.com is not even 100%.

What does the price of beeswax in Argentina have to do with the price of Dreughs Wax in Vivec City?

Also according to statistica.com, the unemployment in argentina also been rising for last 5 years. If you think 10% unemployment rate indicates healthy economy, I don’t know what is unhealthy other than venezuela and zimbabwe.

Why are you talking about Argentina?

And the other flaw with your logic is that you claimed hyper inflation only existed on upgrade mats.

I didn't make any such claims. You are reading things that aren't there.

Have you ever read anything on news or books that claim inflation can work on just 1 product and no other product?

Inflation isn't... based on products... at all. It's... based on...economies. Inflation is based on the purchasing power of a currency across the entire economy using the CPI.

4. Argentina is an example where it’s 50% annual inflation and economy is unhealthy. I don’t see how you can claim 100% inflation is healthy economy.

You can't use "annual" inflation in the real world and "annual" inflation in a video game that will only be around for maybe 20 years at most.

As best you could get a proxy by looking at the "monthly" inflation in game and compare that to the "annual" real world inflation.

My reply is, i am not sure yugoslavia countries lasted 20 years.

and if we were seeing 100% inflation per month in ESO, I would agree with you. But we aren't.

Inflation is bound to happen until the game either gets a better gold sink or reduces the gold while increasing materials to reduce demand.

Currently, demand is high (still from stickerbook reconstruction) and Gold is plentiful, thus prices are up.

Ok. So at least you acknowledge inflation exist.

You just don’t think it’s high enough to be concerned.

That’s fair.

Yeah, I liken a "year" of ESO is 10-20 "years" in the real world. Would 100% inflation over a decade or two be all that weird?

Would it be something to look at to make sure it doesn't continue, yes. Is it severe enough to make drastic, fundamental changes to monetary policy, no.

VaranisArano · April 2021

code65536 wrote: »

Prices are going up because the game is rewarding more gold than desirable goods.

So there's more gold chasing after an insufficient amount of "stuff".

The biggest gold faucet in the game is daily writs. For example, PC/EU is not my main server (I live in the US, and PC/NA is my home), so I'm not in any trade guilds on PC/EU. But I have almost 40 million gold on PC/EU. Where does it come from? Doing writs every day on multiple characters.

How do we fix this? Simple. Reduce the gold reward from daily writs. Increase the material rewards from daily writs to compensate. Now you have less gold chasing after more stuff and prices will deflate.

When Undaunted Plunder was first introduced on the PTS years ago, I argued that it would be better to reward players with things like alchemy satchels rather than plunder. Players don't consume gold doing trials--they consume material goods. And they should be compensated with material goods in return. Otherwise, they're sinking material goods and getting gold to chase after a supply of material goods that doesn't increase.

The OP's suggestion is bad for a number of reasons:
They're proposing a direct nerf to rewards rather than a rebalance of the ratio of reward type. People want something in return for the time that they put in. The problem isn't that people are being rewarded too much for their time. It's that they're being rewarded with the wrong thing.

They're proposing nerfs to the wrong things. PvP rewards? LOL.

There's at least one good example of this in action that I can think of: when ZOS added Alchemy Satchels to the Tel Var shop in Imperial City. I was selling Columbine for 450 gold at the time, and the price cratered as soon as PVPers could get the mats they needed from doing PVP.

Much of the complaining about prices comes from players who don't want to farm for themselves AND the activities they do aren't very rewarding in gold (or at least gold rewards vs gold spent).

I don't think that players need less gold from quests or Crafting Writs. Those are good gold sources for a reason! They are accessible to every player over level 6. They are extremely useful for making gold for players who aren't active traders, and that's most players. New players and non-traders making gold is not a bad things and I think we should be very careful before we mess with that aspect of gameplay.

I do agree that if ZOS wants to drop prices on Crafting materials, the best way is to give those materials as reward for doing the content that people are already doing. Add an Alchemy Satchel to the Undaunted Merchant for a key(s), and boom, you can pay for some of your potions you used on the pledge. It worked for PVP and Tel Var satchels. There's no reason it couldn't work for PVE.

nukk3r · April 2021

I like how all this talk about hyperinflation is based on a handful of high demand goods becoming expensive over the course of the last year. The price of the majority of items didn't rise at all. How is it a hyperinflation?

Weakypedia · April 2021

I don’t have any credence on economics matters but if I get what everyone said before right the problem of inflation in this game is too many gold faucets and not enough gold sinks.

OP proposition seems quite hostile to casual players.
Dailies are sometimes the only things they do.
The only part i can agree with would be the option to transmute with gold as an alternate cost.

But why not introduce more gold sinks like paying gold for old crown exclusives ?
And why is the only playstyle you don’t want to nerf tamriel trade simulator ?
They could put an higher penalty on unbought items in guild trader than just a slot taken for 30 days.

I’m sorry if i appear aggressive, I just don’t really know how to word it nicely. I am naive but i get the feeling that player on this forum are sometime playing a different game. Not that many people are multibillionaires, not that many people pull 70k casually (borderline bait, if so, i apologise).

VaranisArano · April 2021

ForzaRammer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Auth3nticGlitch wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Are those really the ways most players gain gold?

When I think of quick ways to gain lots of gold through gameplay, I don't ever recommend "Yo, play PVP so if your alliance wins you too can make 19,000 gold every month!" I think my personal "Thanks for participating!" Reward from the Grand Warlord is usually around 3,000 gold a month?

Just saying.

Haha right? Whenever I need to make gold I’ll go farming mats, overland sets, daily quests which provide motifs, recipes etc and sell all of it. Not to mention deconstruction and refining jewellery mats so I get the grains/plating I can sell.
The last resort is fishing for perfect roe or psijic satchels but fishing is hardly rewardable especially considering I can filet 600 fish and due to rngesus sometimes only get 2 perfect roe, which takes hours of fishing to get.
Ngl, I hate the prices being so high when I go to purchase something but the prices I can sell the items I farm is starting to balance everything out for me.

Gaining mats or motif is not gaining gold directly.
It does not contribute to inflation.
Only direct gold gain out of thin air cause inflation.

Yes, but they also demonstrate part of the issue with restricting gold generation from gameplay. Farming stuff to sell to other players may not be gold generation, but it's a lot more profitable than any source of gold generation from gameplay. Players who farm stuff to sell will always by able to accumulate gold through trading - its gold transfer, not gold creation, but those players won't lack for gold to buy what they want. On the other hand, it's the players who typically get their gold from gameplay who have much less gold and who complain that their meager gold doesn't let them buy what they need.

When you throttle the ability of players to get gold from the Justice System, Antiquities, or Crafting Writs, or questing, you also throttle the ability of players to make decent amounts of gold without selling stuff to other players. That's immediately harmful to players who don't like trading guilds. It's secondarily harmful to players who don't like to be self-sufficient farmers, since they still need stuff, but now they can't get the gold through gameplay to buy what they need except through even greater effort.

Most of my gold comes through trading materials, at this point. If you throttle gold from gameplay, it's not going to hurt me much, because I have reserves and I'm willing to farm mats that would otherwise be a big gold outlay. But at 8 million gold, I'm rich compared to the average player.

But for new players, throttling their ability to get gold through gameplay is only going to force them into farming stuff for sale or leave them perpetually gold-poor. More importantly, from a game design standpoint, it takes away rewards from normal gameplay, and instead encourages players to join in the trading minigame of gold transfer between players.

- I say this as someone who, when I was a brand new player terrified of joining a guild, made my gold by harvesting mats and selling them to the NPC vendors. Yeah, feel free to laugh. Hey, a stack of 200 iron sold for 800 gold! Similarly, when I made a brand new character on the EU server for a day, my starting gold came from stealing stuff in Vulkhel Guard and hawking it to the fence. So seriously, when you throttle sources of gold from gameplay, players who don't want to join guilds are going to get hit hard. New players are going to struggle to gain gold unless they quickly start farming accessible stuff like reagents to sell and join a trading guild.

Gold transfer should be a important part of game play.

Trading guild is a system unique to this game. It should be featured more.

Nerfing direct gold gain make trade guild more important.

This is a good thing, show the alternative to a boring auction house.

Claims hyper inflation is morally wrong
Also claims gold gain being monopolized by a few trading guilds is good.

I don't follow the logic here tbh. Please make it make sense.

Trade guild don’t gain gold directly. I see no issue with any indirect gold gain.

Balance issue possibly exist. But that’s for a different discussion.

I don't view the balance issues resulting from forcing players into trading guilds if they want to make gold efficiently after all gameplay sources of gold have been cut off or throttled as a different discussion from the one where we're talking about your suggestion to cut off or throttle gameplay sources of gold.

To be specific, we're talking about:
- new players will have a much harder time making gold through normal gameplay, forcing them to farm goods for trade or be poorer than a new player can be now
- players who dislike trading guilds just simply have a harder time making gold through normal gameplay
- there's only a maximum of about 98,500 slots open for players at public guild traders. Have you considered how to manage access to guild traders once you cut off or throttle gold through gameplay?
- console and PC trading guilds operate differently. Console players often have to pay guild dues, making it harder for gold-poor new players to start trading since their gold through gameplay is cut off or throttled.

You didn't confirm that you were advocating for this above, but neither have you denied it. So I'm not sure what to think.

Lest you say, "Oh, that's a different discussion," consider that in order for your idea to be workable, ZOS is going to have to look at how to deal with the balance issues before they let any changes go Live. It's ZOS who has to think about how they want a new player to experience the game , such as making gold by Crafting or questing, or whether the new player should be even more gold-poor by the time they finish the latest Chapter and then start farming stuff to trade if they want money.

So if your idea is workable - no, more than that - is desirable, what's your answer to those balance concerns?

Focus of this is gold faucet gold sink and inflation. Not distribution of wealth.

I have no answer to your balance questions.

Until there is an answer to those balance questions, I remain opposed to the idea.

It is not good for the overall health of ESO as a game to prioritize targeting inflation at the expense of the new player experience, at the expense of players who don't join trading guilds, and without considering issues of access to the means of gold transfer like the limited guild trader spots.

ForzaRammer · April 2021

nukk3r wrote: »

I like how all this talk about hyperinflation is based on a handful of high demand goods becoming expensive over the course of the last year. The price of the majority of items didn't rise at all. How is it a hyperinflation?

By majority are you counting number of types or total transactions value?

Because price of baseball and hockey cards don’t really represent of RL inflation, it’s too small a chunk of the economy.

Price of rice and flour is a good item to check.

ForzaRammer · April 2021

Weakypedia wrote: »

I don’t have any credence on economics matters but if I get what everyone said before right the problem of inflation in this game is too many gold faucets and not enough gold sinks.

OP proposition seems quite hostile to casual players.
Dailies are sometimes the only things they do.
The only part i can agree with would be the option to transmute with gold as an alternate cost.

But why not introduce more gold sinks like paying gold for old crown exclusives ?
And why is the only playstyle you don’t want to nerf tamriel trade simulator ?
They could put an higher penalty on unbought items in guild trader than just a slot taken for 30 days.

I’m sorry if i appear aggressive, I just don’t really know how to word it nicely. I am naive but i get the feeling that player on this forum are sometime playing a different game. Not that many people are multibillionaires, not that many people pull 70k casually (borderline bait, if so, i apologise).

I only called nerf onto direct gold gain, you can suggest to add nerfs to the indirect ones too. I don’t oppose it.

harakira · April 2021

We need more gold sink features. Accumulated gold that has nowhere to spend is used for speculation and market control. In some cases this blocks whole gameplay for players on a budget and time constraints. ESO economy was not designed to simulate the real economy.

Firstmep · April 2021

With is this.. If the price of mats go up just go do writs and surveys and sell your gained mats, you can literally print gold..
I hope Zos doesn't listen to all the moaning to starts policing the economy.
Some ppl raid, some ppl pvp etc, some ppl play the market, the trader system is an integral part of this game as much as all other systems...