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PvP Tierlist for Flames of Ambition

BohnT2
BohnT2
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Hello everyone,
this year's main story is all about Mehrunes Dagon trying to flip over Tamriel and the first ones to experience this are we PvP players.

The Flames of Ambition Patch has forcefully introduced a new meta by limiting the amount of sets we can use to only 19. The dark ages of procs dominating cyrodiil are over but you can be sure there's other things filling out this power vacuum.

[img][/img]Front635-1.jpg


This patch has shaken up the meta more than any other before in years especially for modes with cp enabled. We've got a complete CP rework that forces players to decide which damage skills they want to buff and which ones they want to defend themselves against better. But apart from the CP rework we got something that has probably influenced the meta even more, each one of our characters has gotten a whooping 1.000 weapon and spell damage right from the get-go and with battle spirit being removed along with the loss of 20% max stats from CP health numbers have seen a nerf across the board leading to a higher opportunity cost when stacking health.
This has lead to the following individual spec ranking you're familiar with from previous Tierlists:
Back635.jpg


I want to highlight some of the big changes for this patch's Tierlist:
First of all magicka necromancer
in the past this spec has been the epitome of being fully reliant on procs and would have been found on the bottom of every list banning procs but not anymore. Magnecro has benefited a lot from this patch, all its skills scale incredibly good with spelldamage turning blastbones into an actual nuke who's damage can set off its mediocre AI. On the defensive side of things spirit mender and mortal coil reach insane values that put other heals to shame. Another change that has made magnecro all the more sweet is the changes to penetration in conjunction with the CP rework, DBoS is no longer an unusable ultimate and perfectly fills the void that had previously existed for a cheap and useable burst ultimate

Next up on the list are both Magsorc and Stamnb
Those classes were always great in OW but have been held back by a meta punishing burst due to high HP pools and overall lower damage from skills. With the changes the Flames of Ambition Patch has given us burst and damage overall has gone up significantly, while this hasn't been enough to crown them to the new PvP overlords it has definitely given them a great push in that direction

The spec that has seen the biggest drop in performance this patch is without a doubt Magplar:
Both with and without procs magplar has a very hard time of finding offensive windows without dying before having finished a single wave of jabs. It's damage is still great or even obnoxious when being focused by one while getting zerged but on its own magplar isn't able to survive long enough to release its full potential.

With those explanations I want to finish the introduction of this patch's Tierlist.

Happy Easter to each one of you and enjoy the discussion on this Tierlist, we're looking forward to read through all posts in here.
Edited by BohnT2 on April 2, 2021 8:43AM
  • TwinLamps
    TwinLamps
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    sDK does feel bad
    Awake, but at what cost
  • GrigorijMalahevich
    GrigorijMalahevich
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    I totally disagree with the whole list. Magcro needs a buff!

    PvP Magicka Necromancer has the worst offensive toolkit of any class by far!
    Harmony nerf
    Major vuln nerf
    Mag blastbones essentially has no secondary effect since the damage modifier doesn't work now that blastbones doesn't run to the target.
    Mag skulls are very slow spammable and have inferior secondary effects compared to other spammable options such as Force Pulse, Elemental Weapon, and even the stam skulls.
    The Skeletal Arcanist deals incredibly low damage after battlespirit and doesn't target who you're immediately trying to kill.
    Mystic siphon is completely useless in PvP.
    Hungry Scythe from the Bone Tyrant tree just doesn't do enough damage to warrant use.
    Despite having a DOT damage passive, mag necros don't have a single viable DOT for PvP in their class trees
    Mag necros have no class access to major sorcery OR major prophecy.


    PC/EU 800 CP.
    PvP MagSorc.
    Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
    Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
    Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
    Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq
  • deleted210809-001958
    all listed benefits for magcro can be addressed to any other class, so compared to others the only thing changes is that now we can use DBoS (and still other mag classes has better ultimates). With medium armor and cp changes even vampires in medium armor don't care about DBoS
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    This list is... something.

    MagCro almost always at the top?

    MagCro almost always outperforming MagSorc?

    Stamina builds rated C or D?

    Magicka mostly outperforming Stamina?


    I have to shake my head... and laugh.
    Edited by Seraphayel on April 2, 2021 10:35AM
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • Raegwyr
    Raegwyr
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    This list is... something.

    MagCro almost always at the top?

    MagCro almost always outperforming MagSorc?

    Stamina builds rated C or D?

    Magicka mostly outperforming Stamina?


    I have to shake my head... and laugh.

    List created by 30+ hardcore pvp players but i'm sure random from forum will provide a better one :smile: we are looking forward for your list!
    As from me, i only disagree with magsorc, should be a little highier in most cases
  • xI_The_Owl_Ix
    xI_The_Owl_Ix
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    MagNB being B tier makes 0 sense to me. While the spec has potentionally high burst, its really easy avoided and cloak being bugged kinda forces MagNB to use dark cloak which is really useless in a 8-10k spammable burst meta.

    Would love to hear the explanation on how MagNB is better than a DoT StamDK or a Magplar.
  • silky_soft
    silky_soft
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    Coming from a 250ms+ perspective.

    Block and heavy armor are OP af right now doesn't matter what class uses it.

    Procs are number 1 when they come back.
    Magsorc and Stadmen number 1 till then.
    Followed by Stamsorc, stamdk and necros full stop
    Templar, have you tried dw/sb with jabs? Who cares what side you play for. Jesus beam anyone?
    NB is now just a not bad I can gank and die class. Oh your blocking in cc immunity, please just chuck some fire at me and get it over with.
    MagDK lel what are you even. Just reroll stam or another class.
    Here $15, goat mount please. Not paying 45 : lol :
    Netch is free with a cleanse and free magika. You nerf siphon into the ground. Nice balance team.
    How do you go home every night and say, I did a great job at work today. You actually do your job properly.
    Step 1: roll templar. Step 2: level up jabs. Step 3: slap on weapon damage build. Step 4: que for bg. Step 5: leap...jabsjabsjabsjabs
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Raegwyr wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    This list is... something.

    MagCro almost always at the top?

    MagCro almost always outperforming MagSorc?

    Stamina builds rated C or D?

    Magicka mostly outperforming Stamina?


    I have to shake my head... and laugh.

    List created by 30+ hardcore pvp players but i'm sure random from forum will provide a better one :smile: we are looking forward for your list!
    As from me, i only disagree with magsorc, should be a little highier in most cases

    See, you disagree with that, I disagree with that as well. Others will disagree on other placements and we'll get a completely different picture than what OP presented. In the end it's pretty subjective. We had similar lists for previous updates made by hardcore PvP players that contradicted each others so... I like these lists, but they’re not universal.
    Edited by Seraphayel on April 2, 2021 11:08AM
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • dinokstrunz
    dinokstrunz
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    Tier list looks about right, from what I've experienced it feels like experienced Magcros and Stamdens are just simply untouchable, Magcro healing is absolutely bonkers since FoA. Stamden is still imo the most powerful class/spec in no CP pvp. I just wonder how long before everyone realises the power of Magcro and we'll start seeing Magcros everywhere, that's gonna be fun.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    This tier list looks more or less correct, but I guess authors just "assumed" that invisibility / cloak is working as it should...

    But the reality is that it is still unfixed and plagued with bugs. A lot of thing that are not supposed to - still break / interrupt invisibility. As a result invisibility potions / cloak is very unreliable & I would even say useless to some degree. You can not rely on it & expect to survie (unlike sorc or warden that can 1-skill streak away or outheal & speed-buff away).

    If this was taken into account both stam & mag NB would probably be 1 or 2 tiers lower, at least for solo play, as cloak is not that good in group environment.
  • Ryuvain
    Ryuvain
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    Tier list looks about right, from what I've experienced it feels like experienced Magcros and Stamdens are just simply untouchable, Magcro healing is absolutely bonkers since FoA. Stamden is still imo the most powerful class/spec in no CP pvp. I just wonder how long before everyone realises the power of Magcro and we'll start seeing Magcros everywhere, that's gonna be fun.

    Gonna have to agree. Magcro is actually pretty good, even though stam is still better. They play almost the same except mag staff weapons are worse.
    That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
    Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.
  • furiouslog
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    Agree totally with templar at bottom. I still play it, but I die pretty damn fast.1 second of CC and it's over. Magcro and Stamden are both insane right now.
  • Dovahmiim
    Dovahmiim
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    I totally disagree with the whole list. Magcro needs a buff!

    PvP Magicka Necromancer has the worst offensive toolkit of any class by far!
    Harmony nerf
    Major vuln nerf
    Mag blastbones essentially has no secondary effect since the damage modifier doesn't work now that blastbones doesn't run to the target.
    Mag skulls are very slow spammable and have inferior secondary effects compared to other spammable options such as Force Pulse, Elemental Weapon, and even the stam skulls.
    The Skeletal Arcanist deals incredibly low damage after battlespirit and doesn't target who you're immediately trying to kill.
    Mystic siphon is completely useless in PvP.
    Hungry Scythe from the Bone Tyrant tree just doesn't do enough damage to warrant use.
    Despite having a DOT damage passive, mag necros don't have a single viable DOT for PvP in their class trees
    Mag necros have no class access to major sorcery OR major prophecy.


    Magcro is absolutely broken OP right now in no-proc cyro. You literally can't die to 2 or less players, and can oneshot absolutely anyone with Blastbones + Harmony Graverobber + DB. They also have outrageous offhealing/sustain etc, by far the strongest spec I've ever played.
    I'm better.
  • Berenhir
    Berenhir
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    I completely disagree with this tier list and have to speak out loud on it. I play stamden on a regular basis (at least 8h already this patch and even more for the last patches) and I can tell you it is everything else than S-tier.

    [snip]

    First of all, wardens have no good healing. We all know that only stamina is good in Cyro because they can break free and magicka cannot - at least not twice in a row.

    Stamina has no good access to healing because vigor got nerfed a lot and is only 4 seconds now, so I am forced to cast it basically all the time now. Of course I cannot be forced to and I took vigor off my bars like the better PvP players have all done (e.g. Kristofer ESO).

    The other warden healing skills are all magicka or have a very bad animation, so no-one uses them. The only exception is the polar wind skill, which scales off your health. But high health is really bad because it takes very long to heal to full again. For example I can heal to full with one polar wind from 60%HP at 20k MaxHP but I cannot at 35k, which makes stacking health on warden an extremely bad idea.
    That's also one of the main flaws in design for warden (I have to take points out of passive for minor toughness).

    My bear as the only good warden ult also interferes sometimes with my burst from snipe (which I slotted instead of the bugs as they seemed to just go randomly in front of me and don't hit targets I aim the crosshairs at).

    All in all, I often stumble into situations where I cannot outheal even the slightest pressure. I use healing ward back bar as my main heal and I just quickly run out of magicka when I use it.

    So this tier list is just wrong for every single class and every single assumption.

    In my opinion it also judges players by what class they play and thus is very discriminatory. It puts players into an imaginary tier based on what content they enjoy and something like that is just hostile and doesn't help the community at all. It's play how you want and not get judged and discriminated by what you play!!!

    [Edited to remove Baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 2, 2021 12:43PM
    PC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Gray Host - Death Recap -#zergfarming -
  • Faded
    Faded
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    Tier list looks about right, from what I've experienced it feels like experienced Magcros and Stamdens are just simply untouchable, Magcro healing is absolutely bonkers since FoA. Stamden is still imo the most powerful class/spec in no CP pvp. I just wonder how long before everyone realises the power of Magcro and we'll start seeing Magcros everywhere, that's gonna be fun.

    Usually takes 3-6 months for everybody to catch up to a meta shift, especially one with surprises like "magcro is S tier now."

    The C and D tiers are less surprising.
  • Flaaklypa
    Flaaklypa
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    people here dont realize the potential of magicka necromancer. no other class or spec benefitted as good for the 1k WD and SD as magcro did. mortal coil and mender both have insane tooltips, My mender alone heals for as much as my coag blood does on my magdk, except the mender does it every 2 second and automatically. Coil tooltip is well over 30k which is just absolutely nuts. The offensive toolkit is a bit lackluster when compared to its stamina counterpart, or wardens, or sorcs, so i dont know if i would put it above/equal with a magsorc, or stamcro (speaking for a no cp cyrodiil perspective) but its nowhere near the *** spec it always has been since release.

    anyone saying magcro is bad hasnt seen an experienced player use it.

    Good list :)
  • Urzigurumash
    Urzigurumash
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    Dovahmiim wrote: »
    Magcro is absolutely broken OP right now in no-proc cyro.

    By far the all-around strongest opponent I've faced in Xbox NA Grey Host is on MagCro. If you're on the server you probably know who I mean, Red 5 star.

    Still I'm having a great time on SDK, but I have thousands of hours on the class, and the fact that I do better on SDK probably speaks more to my stubborn enthusiasm for the class and an inability to adapt to stronger classes than the usefulness of my many hours on SDK.

    Edited by Urzigurumash on April 2, 2021 12:42PM
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
  • ZOS_ConnorG
    Greetings all,

    After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

    You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.
    Staff Post
  • Moonsorrow
    Moonsorrow
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    We had similar lists for previous updates made by hardcore PvP players that contradicted each others so...

    But NA and Console lists are usually irrelevant, those platforms will understand and follow the more superior PC EU meta usually after 3 months delay.

    This list is accurate. :)
  • Faded
    Faded
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    MagNB being B tier makes 0 sense to me. While the spec has potentionally high burst, its really easy avoided and cloak being bugged kinda forces MagNB to use dark cloak which is really useless in a 8-10k spammable burst meta.

    Would love to hear the explanation on how MagNB is better than a DoT StamDK or a Magplar.

    Shade, mass hysteria, we have other tools besides cloak in our half-empty bag of tricks. If things go bad we can reset or withdraw, [edit: I don't know if the rest of that sentence is true anymore, which is pretty cool]. MNB is also a hell of a lot deadlier than a magplar, assuming both specs are good and lucky enough to land their abilities in a fight (potential damage output).

    I don't think anybody's claiming B tier means everything's great with magblade.

    Edited by Faded on April 2, 2021 1:22PM
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    We had similar lists for previous updates made by hardcore PvP players that contradicted each others so...

    But NA and Console lists are usually irrelevant, those platforms will understand and follow the more superior PC EU meta usually after 3 months delay.

    This list is accurate. :)

    Eeehhhh... okay. Good to know.
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • xI_The_Owl_Ix
    xI_The_Owl_Ix
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    Faded wrote: »
    MagNB being B tier makes 0 sense to me. While the spec has potentionally high burst, its really easy avoided and cloak being bugged kinda forces MagNB to use dark cloak which is really useless in a 8-10k spammable burst meta.

    Would love to hear the explanation on how MagNB is better than a DoT StamDK or a Magplar.

    Shade, mass hysteria, we have other tools besides cloak in our half-empty bag of tricks. If things go bad we can reset or withdraw, [edit: I don't know if the rest of that sentence is true anymore, which is pretty cool]. MNB is also a hell of a lot deadlier than a magplar, assuming both specs are good and lucky enough to land their abilities in a fight (potential damage output).

    I don't think anybody's claiming B tier means everything's great with magblade.

    Good luck fitting shade unto your bar on a magnb. Fear, yes ok, a decent offensive and defensive CC.
    However we cant reset the fight considering cloak is bugged and it breaks by single target abilities like LA etc, only efficient way to use invis is by roll dodging then going invis, even then its not guaranteed due to AoEs. So most magblades which arent gankers use dark cloak atm, which only heals for something like 700-800 per tick, good luck outhealing the insane burst in the current meta. Like I said magnb has potentially good burst but you can counter it with a single roll dodge, magplar has decent dmg and its not as easy avoided as magnb.
    Jabs is AoE and snares, PoTL is undodgable and unblockable, jesus beam is deadlier than ever and undogable. Magplar has also a very good burst heal (BoL) and can easily block several people and just outheal the dmg, magnb cant.

    I seriously fail to see how magnb is supposed to be better than a magplar or a stamdk.
  • BohnT2
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    Faded wrote: »
    MagNB being B tier makes 0 sense to me. While the spec has potentionally high burst, its really easy avoided and cloak being bugged kinda forces MagNB to use dark cloak which is really useless in a 8-10k spammable burst meta.

    Would love to hear the explanation on how MagNB is better than a DoT StamDK or a Magplar.

    Shade, mass hysteria, we have other tools besides cloak in our half-empty bag of tricks. If things go bad we can reset or withdraw, [edit: I don't know if the rest of that sentence is true anymore, which is pretty cool]. MNB is also a hell of a lot deadlier than a magplar, assuming both specs are good and lucky enough to land their abilities in a fight (potential damage output).

    I don't think anybody's claiming B tier means everything's great with magblade.

    Good luck fitting shade unto your bar on a magnb. Fear, yes ok, a decent offensive and defensive CC.
    However we cant reset the fight considering cloak is bugged and it breaks by single target abilities like LA etc, only efficient way to use invis is by roll dodging then going invis, even then its not guaranteed due to AoEs. So most magblades which arent gankers use dark cloak atm, which only heals for something like 700-800 per tick, good luck outhealing the insane burst in the current meta. Like I said magnb has potentially good burst but you can counter it with a single roll dodge, magplar has decent dmg and its not as easy avoided as magnb.
    Jabs is AoE and snares, PoTL is undodgable and unblockable, jesus beam is deadlier than ever and undogable. Magplar has also a very good burst heal (BoL) and can easily block several people and just outheal the dmg, magnb cant.

    I seriously fail to see how magnb is supposed to be better than a magplar or a stamdk.

    If you're not using shade you're giving up on the strongest kiting skill in the entire game, in terms of kiting it gives streak a run for its money.

    Magplar has no option of creating offensive windows, which it needs as jabs force you to drop block and doesn't allow you to dodge, it's simply able to swap from defense to offence and is stuck between either surviving and not getting a single kill or trying to get a kill and be killed in the process.

    StamDK lacks the damage to get important kills and is sorely missing the survivability proc sets had given it.
  • xI_The_Owl_Ix
    xI_The_Owl_Ix
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    BohnT2 wrote: »
    Faded wrote: »
    MagNB being B tier makes 0 sense to me. While the spec has potentionally high burst, its really easy avoided and cloak being bugged kinda forces MagNB to use dark cloak which is really useless in a 8-10k spammable burst meta.

    Would love to hear the explanation on how MagNB is better than a DoT StamDK or a Magplar.

    Shade, mass hysteria, we have other tools besides cloak in our half-empty bag of tricks. If things go bad we can reset or withdraw, [edit: I don't know if the rest of that sentence is true anymore, which is pretty cool]. MNB is also a hell of a lot deadlier than a magplar, assuming both specs are good and lucky enough to land their abilities in a fight (potential damage output).

    I don't think anybody's claiming B tier means everything's great with magblade.

    Good luck fitting shade unto your bar on a magnb. Fear, yes ok, a decent offensive and defensive CC.
    However we cant reset the fight considering cloak is bugged and it breaks by single target abilities like LA etc, only efficient way to use invis is by roll dodging then going invis, even then its not guaranteed due to AoEs. So most magblades which arent gankers use dark cloak atm, which only heals for something like 700-800 per tick, good luck outhealing the insane burst in the current meta. Like I said magnb has potentially good burst but you can counter it with a single roll dodge, magplar has decent dmg and its not as easy avoided as magnb.
    Jabs is AoE and snares, PoTL is undodgable and unblockable, jesus beam is deadlier than ever and undogable. Magplar has also a very good burst heal (BoL) and can easily block several people and just outheal the dmg, magnb cant.

    I seriously fail to see how magnb is supposed to be better than a magplar or a stamdk.

    If you're not using shade you're giving up on the strongest kiting skill in the entire game, in terms of kiting it gives streak a run for its money.

    Magplar has no option of creating offensive windows, which it needs as jabs force you to drop block and doesn't allow you to dodge, it's simply able to swap from defense to offence and is stuck between either surviving and not getting a single kill or trying to get a kill and be killed in the process.

    StamDK lacks the damage to get important kills and is sorely missing the survivability proc sets had given it.

    The thing is, magnb bar is cramped, even if I want to use shade I dont have enough slots for it.
    Fear, Swallow, Drain/Mark, Mage Light, Merciless --- Rapid Regen, Dampen Magic, Dark Cloak/Invis, RAT, Siphoning/Degen. All of those skills are pretty much needed in overland.

    Im not arguing that magplar is much better, however I just dont see magnb being B tier while magplar is D tier. Magplar also still has toppling which is a very good skill to create an inital offensive window. However I agree that magplar struggles because you have to swap from offense to defense. I feel like they shouldve been put in the same tier at atleast C or C-D tier.
  • OtarTheMad
    OtarTheMad
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    The changes to the CP system do seem to help MagCro but I am not sure if I can say they are that high. I guess if you heavily rely on the abilities that are good, then you'll be fine. But if you break it down then MagCro needs some changes like to Skull which is slow, Skeleton which is low damage, Blastbones is a good ability but yes the secondary effect is garbage, the damage tether is heavily situational. MagCros are tanky, good healing but their class damage is meh.

    So I guess MagCro would be that high if you rely on the abilities that are good but if you want to venture outside of that one playstyle then they drop down to a lower tier. To me, a class should only be top tier if you can do multiple different playstyles and it dominates still which doesn't seem like MagCro to me.
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    Spot on with magplar, in bgs in grp vs grp fights, and in open world 1v1 they are great.
    But ow you get 1 random nb on you in capping you from sneak and you never leave mist for or stop block spamming breath.
    I said this before, but living dark doesn't scale well enough to allow going on the offensive even with ritual and and sweeps healing in the mix.
    I can bust out 15k! Hotds on low hp, but it doesn't matter when outnumbered.
    Also block bug is insanely annoying, getting suprise attack stunned from the front while blocking? Come on Zos.
    Magplar needs a proper strong heal overtime, we can do dmg from perma block like dks and with dots not being as strong at least in cyro, cleanses are also aren't as strong rn.
    All is not lost tho, magplar can burst super hard, but i would defo bring a friend or two into cyro at least.
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    Berenhir wrote: »
    I completely disagree with this tier list and have to speak out loud on it. I play stamden on a regular basis (at least 8h already this patch and even more for the last patches) and I can tell you it is everything else than S-tier.

    [snip]

    First of all, wardens have no good healing. We all know that only stamina is good in Cyro because they can break free and magicka cannot - at least not twice in a row.

    Stamina has no good access to healing because vigor got nerfed a lot and is only 4 seconds now, so I am forced to cast it basically all the time now. Of course I cannot be forced to and I took vigor off my bars like the better PvP players have all done (e.g. Kristofer ESO).

    The other warden healing skills are all magicka or have a very bad animation, so no-one uses them. The only exception is the polar wind skill, which scales off your health. But high health is really bad because it takes very long to heal to full again. For example I can heal to full with one polar wind from 60%HP at 20k MaxHP but I cannot at 35k, which makes stacking health on warden an extremely bad idea.
    That's also one of the main flaws in design for warden (I have to take points out of passive for minor toughness).

    My bear as the only good warden ult also interferes sometimes with my burst from snipe (which I slotted instead of the bugs as they seemed to just go randomly in front of me and don't hit targets I aim the crosshairs at).

    All in all, I often stumble into situations where I cannot outheal even the slightest pressure. I use healing ward back bar as my main heal and I just quickly run out of magicka when I use it.

    So this tier list is just wrong for every single class and every single assumption.

    In my opinion it also judges players by what class they play and thus is very discriminatory. It puts players into an imaginary tier based on what content they enjoy and something like that is just hostile and doesn't help the community at all. It's play how you want and not get judged and discriminated by what you play!!!

    [Edited to remove Baiting]

    Happy April 1st!
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Raegwyr wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    This list is... something.

    MagCro almost always at the top?

    MagCro almost always outperforming MagSorc?

    Stamina builds rated C or D?

    Magicka mostly outperforming Stamina?


    I have to shake my head... and laugh.

    List created by 30+ hardcore pvp players but i'm sure random from forum will provide a better one :smile: we are looking forward for your list!
    As from me, i only disagree with magsorc, should be a little highier in most cases

    See, you disagree with that, I disagree with that as well. Others will disagree on other placements and we'll get a completely different picture than what OP presented. In the end it's pretty subjective. We had similar lists for previous updates made by hardcore PvP players that contradicted each others so... I like these lists, but they’re not universal.

    Most other lists are usually made by 1 person or a couple of people at best.
    Snikers lists are pretty much always discussed with a lot of endgame pvpers.

    What a lot of people usually don't get about these lists, and this one in particular, is that your experience of what's strong and what isnt can be hugely distorted by the quality of players you fight aganist.
    I know pretty mcu everyone on this list, and the EU players even better, and they're all skilled players with years of experience.
    I can take my templar to cyro and jab spam clueless noobs to oblivion and ofc they will think Templar is op.
    But I wouldn't worry much, ZoS doesn't generally listen to balance advise from good players anyway, they do sometimes react to the latest nerf cries from forums.
    Bad players usually base their experience on what kills them 1v1, Beacuse no way the person played better it must be op class carrying.
    At the end of the day eso is a super casual game and worrying about lists like this one is pretty pointless.
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    I don't know that I wouldn't nitpick certain placements on the list, but one thing I definitely agree with is that Magplar feels the worst class by far in Cyrodiil currently. (I play in usually small groups like 2-5 or maybe solo at times). I'ts like, not even in the same league as my other classes (like you need to add some lower grades like past D to move magplar into).


    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    List looks about like I would expect it to. Thanks for sharing.
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