PvP Tierlist for Flames of Ambition

BohnT2

Seraphayel wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Some Screenshots to showcase damage numbers from Magnecro

Honestly, what’s the point? Some screenshots without any context to show some damage numbers - that’s like players that died to Crystal Frags and Grim Focus that rush to the forum to post a 15k / 20k death recap for those skills.

BohnT2 wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

You guys just undervalued magcro a lot in your previous list

We didn't, previously it lacked killing power that would have warranted a higher placement.
With vate destro last patch it made a step up.

If we had taken the three weeks of no proc test prior to FoA patch magnecro would have been the bottom of the list again (for cp)

So, what exactly increased MagCro killing power that it jumps from bottom to top within a blink? The reasons given for the very high MagCro placement is - in my opinion - just not enough for a 180 degree turn. If no proc Cyrodiil disappears, are Magcros back in the bottom?

What I understood was that it got more killing power because it got the best defensive toolkit, which is a bit contradicting - just because you live longer you don’t necessarily have higher killing power. Same for Blastbones. If it works and hits, it’s fatal. Yes, but this can be said about a lot of other skills as well.

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

This tierlist says how each specs perform in the current patch in a given environment when played at their highest level.

Then we still have the theoretical toolkit vs. final outcome difference, which in several cases is... a lot. You can’t have the best toolkit and then be weaker than half a dozen other builds (at least when we apply the rules that the spec is played at the highest level). If a spec is played at the highest level, the one with the best toolkit wins - which is in many cases not reflected in this ranking.

Edit: I find this necessary to say - I don’t want to discredit all of your work done here, it’s very much appreciated. I‘m just yearning for more information.

Theoretical comparison with toolkits would only ever mean how flexible and strong by its own a toolkit is, this does not mean that all the skills in those comparisons fare well in outnumbered scenario such as dragonknight wings for example.
Thats why one spec might end up lower on the list for solo play cyrodiil but higher in a list for group play.

Therefore a magDK with an overall higher rating than stamdk ends up lower on the cyrodiil list than stamdk because its offensive toolkit doesn't make it stand out in outnumbered scenario. Same goes for many other classes, magcro stands out with its defensive toolkit and thats what makes it so strong this patch.

If we were to rate whats usually being weighted more in those ratings is mitigation/healing(those skills are looked at in a 1v1 scenario) > damage avoidance > sustain > offense
Nowadays proc sets of any kind exist that fill in those gaps and make a lot of specs stand out such as magcro, magdk, magden.

Magcro being ranged and therefore having more pressure and having access to much better sets than stamina only ever gets stronger with proc sets enabled as that carries its offensive toolkit so much that many players believe its the best class this patch when it comes to campaigns with procs enabled.

GrigorijMalahevich

BohnT2 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Some Screenshots to showcase damage numbers from Magnecro

Honestly, what’s the point? Some screenshots without any context to show some damage numbers - that’s like players that died to Crystal Frags and Grim Focus that rush to the forum to post a 15k / 20k death recap for those skills.

BohnT2 wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

You guys just undervalued magcro a lot in your previous list

We didn't, previously it lacked killing power that would have warranted a higher placement.
With vate destro last patch it made a step up.

If we had taken the three weeks of no proc test prior to FoA patch magnecro would have been the bottom of the list again (for cp)

So, what exactly increased MagCro killing power that it jumps from bottom to top within a blink? The reasons given for the very high MagCro placement is - in my opinion - just not enough for a 180 degree turn. If no proc Cyrodiil disappears, are Magcros back in the bottom?

What I understood was that it got more killing power because it got the best defensive toolkit, which is a bit contradicting - just because you live longer you don’t necessarily have higher killing power. Same for Blastbones. If it works and hits, it’s fatal. Yes, but this can be said about a lot of other skills as well.

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

This tierlist says how each specs perform in the current patch in a given environment when played at their highest level.

Then we still have the theoretical toolkit vs. final outcome difference, which in several cases is... a lot. You can’t have the best toolkit and then be weaker than half a dozen other builds (at least when we apply the rules that the spec is played at the highest level). If a spec is played at the highest level, the one with the best toolkit wins - which is in many cases not reflected in this ranking.

Edit: I find this necessary to say - I don’t want to discredit all of your work done here, it’s very much appreciated. I‘m just yearning for more information.

Theoretical comparison with toolkits would only ever mean how flexible and strong by its own a toolkit is, this does not mean that all the skills in those comparisons fare well in outnumbered scenario such as dragonknight wings for example.
Thats why one spec might end up lower on the list for solo play cyrodiil but higher in a list for group play.

Therefore a magDK with an overall higher rating than stamdk ends up lower on the cyrodiil list than stamdk because its offensive toolkit doesn't make it stand out in outnumbered scenario. Same goes for many other classes, magcro stands out with its defensive toolkit and thats what makes it so strong this patch.

If we were to rate whats usually being weighted more in those ratings is mitigation/healing(those skills are looked at in a 1v1 scenario) > damage avoidance > sustain > offense
Nowadays proc sets of any kind exist that fill in those gaps and make a lot of specs stand out such as magcro, magdk, magden.

Magcro being ranged and therefore having more pressure and having access to much better sets than stamina only ever gets stronger with proc sets enabled as that carries its offensive toolkit so much that many players believe its the best class this patch when it comes to campaigns with procs enabled.

Agree! Thank you for this post!

Flaaklypa

BohnT2 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Some Screenshots to showcase damage numbers from Magnecro

Honestly, what’s the point? Some screenshots without any context to show some damage numbers - that’s like players that died to Crystal Frags and Grim Focus that rush to the forum to post a 15k / 20k death recap for those skills.

BohnT2 wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

You guys just undervalued magcro a lot in your previous list

We didn't, previously it lacked killing power that would have warranted a higher placement.
With vate destro last patch it made a step up.

If we had taken the three weeks of no proc test prior to FoA patch magnecro would have been the bottom of the list again (for cp)

So, what exactly increased MagCro killing power that it jumps from bottom to top within a blink? The reasons given for the very high MagCro placement is - in my opinion - just not enough for a 180 degree turn. If no proc Cyrodiil disappears, are Magcros back in the bottom?

What I understood was that it got more killing power because it got the best defensive toolkit, which is a bit contradicting - just because you live longer you don’t necessarily have higher killing power. Same for Blastbones. If it works and hits, it’s fatal. Yes, but this can be said about a lot of other skills as well.

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

This tierlist says how each specs perform in the current patch in a given environment when played at their highest level.

Then we still have the theoretical toolkit vs. final outcome difference, which in several cases is... a lot. You can’t have the best toolkit and then be weaker than half a dozen other builds (at least when we apply the rules that the spec is played at the highest level). If a spec is played at the highest level, the one with the best toolkit wins - which is in many cases not reflected in this ranking.

Edit: I find this necessary to say - I don’t want to discredit all of your work done here, it’s very much appreciated. I‘m just yearning for more information.

Theoretical comparison with toolkits would only ever mean how flexible and strong by its own a toolkit is, this does not mean that all the skills in those comparisons fare well in outnumbered scenario such as dragonknight wings for example.
Thats why one spec might end up lower on the list for solo play cyrodiil but higher in a list for group play.

Therefore a magDK with an overall higher rating than stamdk ends up lower on the cyrodiil list than stamdk because its offensive toolkit doesn't make it stand out in outnumbered scenario. Same goes for many other classes, magcro stands out with its defensive toolkit and thats what makes it so strong this patch.

If we were to rate whats usually being weighted more in those ratings is mitigation/healing(those skills are looked at in a 1v1 scenario) > damage avoidance > sustain > offense
Nowadays proc sets of any kind exist that fill in those gaps and make a lot of specs stand out such as magcro, magdk, magden.

Magcro being ranged and therefore having more pressure and having access to much better sets than stamina only ever gets stronger with proc sets enabled as that carries its offensive toolkit so much that many players believe its the best class this patch when it comes to campaigns with procs enabled.

well said!

Hotdog_23

Looking at this list and it’s easy to see that the ZosWolf blew the house down templar had built. At least a DK is warm by the it’s little fire. If they could only raise the dead or make friends with bugs and love the cold air.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Gorilla

So....can someone point a dude to a fund magcro build?

Nagastani

Just take NB off your list already except for maybe in IC. lol

Firstmep

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Looking at this list and it’s easy to see that the ZosWolf blew the house down templar had built. At least a DK is warm by the it’s little fire. If they could only raise the dead or make friends with bugs and love the cold air.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

With my current stamplar bg build, I'm fully embracing the house building aspect of Templar.
Ritual, rune, caltrops, stampede field.
Once I spend 5 minutes to set up my house my enemies can simply walk out, since the whole house idea is a meme.

BohnT2

Here's the invitation if you want to discuss the next Tierlists or just want to give the Reps general feedback about classes, bugs and the whole game.
https://discord.gg/3etSEyFjnN

Joy_Division

Other than overrating magicka necromancer a little bit, you pretty much nailed it with this list.

I think you deserve credit for not just parroting what people felt was true for a long time. For example, I think you're absolutely right that even though ZOS didn;t change much, Magicka Nightblade is a much better performing spec right now than it was just last patch. I also think you're right the that DK and Templar, the un-updated two slow "attrition" classes, occupy the bottom four specs by quite a bit.

Nice!