PvP Tierlist for Flames of Ambition

Raegwyr

Seraphayel wrote: »

Necromancer were very weak during their first year. It’s not for long that they are top PvE specs and Stamcros really strong in PvP (again, dominance of 2h contributes to this as well).

Stamcros were the strongest pve class during elsweyr, 8 stamcros in the raid with one nb tank was pretty common back then. And in pvp stamcros were the beasts, not beating wardens but very solid. And bash ulti colossus or harmony bombers were op af so i don't know what you are talking about.
Only weak cro build then was non harmony magcro but the whole class overall was in pretty good spot from the start (clunky i agree but with powerful toolkit and passives)

SshadowSscale

Raegwyr wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Necromancer were very weak during their first year. It’s not for long that they are top PvE specs and Stamcros really strong in PvP (again, dominance of 2h contributes to this as well).

Stamcros were the strongest pve class during elsweyr, 8 stamcros in the raid with one nb tank was pretty common back then. And in pvp stamcros were the beasts, not beating wardens but very solid. And bash ulti colossus or harmony bombers were op af so i don't know what you are talking about.
Only weak cro build then was non harmony magcro but the whole class overall was in pretty good spot from the start (clunky i agree but with powerful toolkit and passives)

funny how harmony bombing is op yet magblade bombing is completely fine.... granted harmony got nerfed quite hard so harmony bombing does not really exist anymore

Raegwyr

SshadowSscale wrote: »

Raegwyr wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Necromancer were very weak during their first year. It’s not for long that they are top PvE specs and Stamcros really strong in PvP (again, dominance of 2h contributes to this as well).

Stamcros were the strongest pve class during elsweyr, 8 stamcros in the raid with one nb tank was pretty common back then. And in pvp stamcros were the beasts, not beating wardens but very solid. And bash ulti colossus or harmony bombers were op af so i don't know what you are talking about.
Only weak cro build then was non harmony magcro but the whole class overall was in pretty good spot from the start (clunky i agree but with powerful toolkit and passives)

funny how harmony bombing is op yet magblade bombing is completely fine.... granted harmony got nerfed quite hard so harmony bombing does not really exist anymore

Harmony bombing was op because you could build tanky with that and you could repeat that move every 20s (in group play even more if group uses different synergies like templar ulti), magnb bombing required to be a full glass canon and 200+ ulti to be effective (so forget about using it every 20s).Harmony was really good in solo and group scenarios, magblade bomb was strictly solo tactic. Dotcro bombing is still really powerful but usable only during cyro sieges.
Harmony is no longer op (still valid in some situations tho) but in current meta magcro doesnt need one niche build to be effective.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

Sangwyne

Seraphayel wrote: »

2. I‘m not necessarily asking for Necromancer buffs, the toolkit itself isn’t bad, it’s just very clunky and the positional requirements for many skills are the biggest downside in PvP. Where you can make perfect use of Tethers, Blastbones etc in PvE, it’s really hard to make full use of them in PvP.

The point is that you don't need every skill to be top-tier for the class itself to be strong in PvP, especially when you can't slot that many skills anyhow. All it takes is one overtuned skill, and Necro has several. Blastbones by itself is too strong, regardless of whether the Magicka morph actually does anything, and just requires hovering the cursor over an enemy and hitting the button; the skeleton does the rest. It also happens to be the single strongest delayed damage skill in the game, with a tooltip exceeding even Scorch or Daedric Curse. Spirit Guardian grants an untyped 10% damage reduction buff, as much as Major Protection, on top of healing and applying Undead Confederate for more sustain than most classes have in their entire kit, and happens to stack with Major Protection too, which Necros also have access to. Ravenous Goliath is too strong as an instant-reset button, completely turning around a fight and instantly making a losing battle into a powerspike. Not to mention passives that straight up give stuff like 15% increased DOT damage or 15% less DOT damage taken. Other classes need to lean heavily on Guild or Weapon skills to round out their slots, but Necro (and Warden) have several extremely strong class skills that can be lumped in with a select few strong non-class skills to yield an entire bar full of busted bull****.

Seraphayel wrote: »

3. Those several dozen PvP players are just that. I don’t disrespect what they did here, I’m just saying the list is subjective - and maybe basing a list solely on PvP-Pros isn’t the best decision overall. How much skill is required to play a MagCro to the same potential as e.g. a Stamcro or a Stamden? This isn’t even debated here which is a major contributing factor to a classes‘ power - in my opinion. This should be added to the list and is my suggestion for the OPs when they’re planning to do the next list(s). Something like what skill level is required for build x to reach its full potential?

"Just that"? They're just what, several dozen of the most experienced PvP players in the game, with probably thousands if not tens of thousands of hours between them? Why is their input suddenly no more valid than that of any shmuck off the street? Basing a list solely off PvP-Pros is the best decision, because anyone can take a strong class and fail miserably at it; I'm especially good at that bit, I'll even prove it to you if you like. What players actually care about is potential. Sure, Necro is clunky. Sure, some of its skills suck. Sure, the rotation is difficult. But none of that matters, because an experienced player can cherrypick the strong skills, dump the rest, learn the rotation and abuse the ever-loving bajeebus out of it. Having a high skill ceiling and high skill floor doesn't just suddenly balance out the class; no one complains about their ally Nightblade in the corner eating glue, they whine about the enemy Nightblade named "xxx_John_Wick37_xxx" who's been playing since day one, with an average TTK of less than a second, who crits 100% of the time with just the base 10% chance and spends even less time visible than my father who left for the store ten years ago.

Seraphayel wrote: »

4. MagCro is almost always put above Magsorc in the ranking (except Cyrodiil CP solo play), although - due to said ranking - the class toolkit of Magsorc gets 30/40 points while MagCro gets 24/30. The only advantage MagCro seems to have is Defense Healing & Mitigation, where it beats Magsorc by 2 points. In every other category Magsorc beats MagCro - and MagCro is still rated superior to Magsorc?

Without the input of the creators, we can but speculate as to why it was made that way. Perhaps the numbers are indicative of the average Necro player rather than their maximum potential, or perhaps categories like Defense, Healing and Mitigation are weighted more heavily than others. Remember, PvP isn't just about who can output the biggest numbers (that would be PvE lol), but who can actually take a hit and keep on fighting. Anyone can slap on Dizzying Swing, Dawnbreaker and Heavy armor and call it a day, but classes with passives that better complement the top playstyles will naturally perform better.

Seraphayel wrote: »

7. If I go by comment reactions, there are at least a bunch of guys that agree with me. So it’s not like I‘m a lone wolf. Again, that’s due to rankings mostly being an amalgamation of subjective opinions turned into a more or less objective end result.

...Are those players experienced PvP veterans? Or are they Necro mains who don't want to see their class nerfed?

Seraphayel wrote: »

8. And last but not least and something that hasn’t to do with the list, but your comment: weren’t you the one complaining that Necromancer is a pay 2 win class because you need Elsweyr to have it (which is 2 years old now). And because of that it’s so strong, because ZOS deliberately makes it strong due to being a $$$ paywalled class? Maybe I’m confusing you with someone else, but this argument is pretty ridiculous overall. Necromancer were very weak during their first year. It’s not for long that they are top PvE specs and Stamcros really strong in PvP (again, dominance of 2h contributes to this as well).

Idk if I was the exact guy you're referencing, but yes, I'm not a fan of the recent trend in pay-to-win games and don't want to see the Elder Scrolls head in that direction. Having the two paid DLC classes be pretty much better in every regard than the original four classes is inching a little too close to that territory for my liking.

Seraphayel wrote: »

I want to make this clear: I very much appreciate the work from the OP and all the others that created this list. It’s a very good starting point for PvP and offers a lot of insights. That I and others disagree with some placements might be due to that lists like this are usually subjective - to a bigger or lesser extend. Often there’s no real consensus overall and that’s not bad, that’s helping the game. Consensus is usually only existing when there are extreme outliers in strengths or weaknesses (imbalance, overpowered or how you want to call it). The less consensus on what’s the best, the better.

I would probably refer to the combined experience of dozens of veteran PvP players coming together to create this tier list and acknowledge Necro's strength as a consensus. This isn't a new phenomenon either; logs have shown for a while that Necro was topping the damage charts, and a few dissenting voices (many of which seem to have ulterior motives) doesn't suddenly render all that invalid. Look, I'm not acting like this tier list is the final word either, but I do regard it with a lot less skepticism than the opinion of some random Necro main because I know there's no hidden agenda behind it.

BohnT2

Seraphayel wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Okay, let me correct some things here:

1. My main is an Argonian Templar. My Khajiit Necromancer is only my second or third alt, which is barely played at the moment. But granted, I’ll focus more on my Necromancer soon because I figured out a build and a background story for him I want to explore further.

2. I‘m not necessarily asking for Necromancer buffs, the toolkit itself isn’t bad, it’s just very clunky and the positional requirements for many skills are the biggest downside in PvP. Where you can make perfect use of Tethers, Blastbones etc in PvE, it’s really hard to make full use of them in PvP.

3. Those several dozen PvP players are just that. I don’t disrespect what they did here, I’m just saying the list is subjective - and maybe basing a list solely on PvP-Pros isn’t the best decision overall. How much skill is required to play a MagCro to the same potential as e.g. a Stamcro or a Stamden? This isn’t even debated here which is a major contributing factor to a classes‘ power - in my opinion. This should be added to the list and is my suggestion for the OPs when they’re planning to do the next list(s). Something like what skill level is required for build x to reach its full potential?

4. MagCro is almost always put above Magsorc in the ranking (except Cyrodiil CP solo play), although - due to said ranking - the class toolkit of Magsorc gets 30/40 points while MagCro gets 24/30. The only advantage MagCro seems to have is Defense Healing & Mitigation, where it beats Magsorc by 2 points. In every other category Magsorc beats MagCro - and MagCro is still rated superior to Magsorc?

5. On regard to 4.:

Nightblade: 25.5 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Sorcerer: 29 (Stam) vs. 30 (Mag)
Dragonknight: 20 (Stam) vs. 25 (Mag)
Templar: 17.5 (Stam) vs. 19 (Mag)
Warden: 28 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Necromancer: 28.5 (Stam) vs. 24 (Mag)

Something eventually doesn’t add up here. But that’s just my interpretation of the numbers and the corresponding results (this is my opinion).

Based on this Nightblades (Stam), Sorcerers (Stam + Mag), Dragonknights (Mag), Wardens (Stam) and Necromancers (Stam) do have better toolkits, but Magcro is somehow beating all of them / is on par with them?

6. I don’t see how Dawnbreaker benefits Magcros the most. Because the class toolkit on offensive Ultimates is bad, Magcro can finally make use of Dawnbreaker as a reliable burst ultimate? How is that limited to Magcros? Isn’t everyone and their mother already using Dawnbreaker for years in PvP? But all of a sudden this shoots Magcro to the top?

7. If I go by comment reactions, there are at least a bunch of guys that agree with me. So it’s not like I‘m a lone wolf. Again, that’s due to rankings mostly being an amalgamation of subjective opinions turned into a more or less objective end result.

[snip]

I want to make this clear: I very much appreciate the work from the OP and all the others that created this list. It’s a very good starting point for PvP and offers a lot of insights. That I and others disagree with some placements might be due to that lists like this are usually subjective - to a bigger or lesser extend. Often there’s no real consensus overall and that’s not bad, that’s helping the game. Consensus is usually only existing when there are extreme outliers in strengths or weaknesses (imbalance, overpowered or how you want to call it). The less consensus on what’s the best, the better.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Magcro is rated lower in cyrodiil cp than magsorc due to classes being forced to use their actual kits and thats where magsorc obviously wins

Magcro is still ranked so highly there due to defensive kits playing a much bigger role this patch since doing damage isnt much of an issue anymore and considering mag blastbones is practically a homing missile that does huge damage, it isnt the hardest thing to do either on necromancer either

Everywhere else magnecro is ranked much higher than other classes due to how good their defensive kit is and how uncounterable their kit is when they abuse proc sets. Magsorc is unable to do that which puts necro so far ahead.
In group play scenarios a support build mag necro is rated higher than most specs too

SshadowSscale

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

Firstmep

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

Popularity and strenght are not the same.

Magsorc has been consistently one of the better classes for pvp in this games history, and while magcros were always good for group play, their solo capabilities were pretty bad until recently.

Just beacuse magcro is suddenly stronger overall than sorc, it doesnt mean that every will just abandon their main and metahop to necro.

Some people will, of course, but a lot of people play their favorite class regardless of how weak it is.

Magsorc is also a base game class so more people likely to main it than magcro, which is the newest class in the game, even if its been out for a couple of years now.

Again just beacuse a class is popular it doesnt mean its overall kit is the strongest.

maxjapank

Firstmep wrote: »

a lot of people play their favorite class regardless of how weak it is.

So cries a Magplar. Magplar for life!

BohnT2

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

This tierlist says how each specs perform in the current patch in a given environment when played at their highest level.

BohnT2

Some Screenshots to showcase damage numbers from Magnecro

Flaaklypa

BohnT2 wrote: »

Some Screenshots to showcase damage numbers from Magnecro

you should probably censor out the names, sharing screenshot of dead players with names goes under the "Name and Shame" policy

HankTwo

You guys just undervalued magcro a lot in your previous list

Faded

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden....

Where does it say that? I don't see it. Besides, if the devs listened to that list of players, Cyro would be a lot different. They'll do whatever they want.

PS #BuffMagblade #andTemplar

Vlad9425

Can’t really argue with this list but due to NB cloak being severely bugged at the moment I believe NB would drop down slightly.

SshadowSscale

Firstmep wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

Popularity and strenght are not the same.

Magsorc has been consistently one of the better classes for pvp in this games history, and while magcros were always good for group play, their solo capabilities were pretty bad until recently.

Just beacuse magcro is suddenly stronger overall than sorc, it doesnt mean that every will just abandon their main and metahop to necro.

Some people will, of course, but a lot of people play their favorite class regardless of how weak it is.

Magsorc is also a base game class so more people likely to main it than magcro, which is the newest class in the game, even if its been out for a couple of years now.

Again just beacuse a class is popular it doesnt mean its overall kit is the strongest.

People always flock to what ever is strongest..... a little while ago most people where on stamcros and stamdens during the dot meta magplars where everywhere..... but according too you very few switch.... as far as I can tell there is few that will switch and many more that will.... I mean a little while ago there where way les magsorcs running about but all of a sudden they popped up everywhere.... and how can you say magsorcs has a weaker class toolkit?..... their burst is superior they have access to a lot of stuns as well as a very good defense when combining shield stacks and streak not to mention being able to go full on with pets too which body block a lot of attacks..... what necro has 1 good burst skill and a good defense.... I mean if you where to nerf ghost and mortal coil as well as blast bones what is left???..... they have 3 strong skills one of which sometimes just stands around and never deals its damage and another you have to stand still for to be able to utilize it and you cannot even use Los otherwise it will break...... but sure let's nerf magcro and laugh at whatever is left..... let's do the same to it to what has been done to mag blade.....

BohnT2

HankTwo wrote: »

You guys just undervalued magcro a lot in your previous list

We didn't, previously it lacked killing power that would have warranted a higher placement.
With vate destro last patch it made a step up.

If we had taken the three weeks of no proc test prior to FoA patch magnecro would have been the bottom of the list again (for cp)

Seraphayel

BohnT2 wrote: »

Some Screenshots to showcase damage numbers from Magnecro

Honestly, what’s the point? Some screenshots without any context to show some damage numbers - that’s like players that died to Crystal Frags and Grim Focus that rush to the forum to post a 15k / 20k death recap for those skills.

BohnT2 wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

You guys just undervalued magcro a lot in your previous list

We didn't, previously it lacked killing power that would have warranted a higher placement.
With vate destro last patch it made a step up.

If we had taken the three weeks of no proc test prior to FoA patch magnecro would have been the bottom of the list again (for cp)

So, what exactly increased MagCro killing power that it jumps from bottom to top within a blink? The reasons given for the very high MagCro placement is - in my opinion - just not enough for a 180 degree turn. If no proc Cyrodiil disappears, are Magcros back in the bottom?

What I understood was that it got more killing power because it got the best defensive toolkit, which is a bit contradicting - just because you live longer you don’t necessarily have higher killing power. Same for Blastbones. If it works and hits, it’s fatal. Yes, but this can be said about a lot of other skills as well.

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

This tierlist says how each specs perform in the current patch in a given environment when played at their highest level.

Then we still have the theoretical toolkit vs. final outcome difference, which in several cases is... a lot. You can’t have the best toolkit and then be weaker than half a dozen other builds (at least when we apply the rules that the spec is played at the highest level). If a spec is played at the highest level, the one with the best toolkit wins - which is in many cases not reflected in this ranking.

Edit: I find this necessary to say - I don’t want to discredit all of your work done here, it’s very much appreciated. I‘m just yearning for more information.

Sergykid

oh look, the latest paid classes are the best, hmmm ...
(applies in pve too)

thatESOdude

Clearly the list is upside down because everybody knows that all wardens in all kinds of pvp is below F- and you have to have 4 hands and be really skilled to pvp with either mag or stam.


Also why is stamNB so low?

Firstmep

SshadowSscale wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

Popularity and strenght are not the same.

Magsorc has been consistently one of the better classes for pvp in this games history, and while magcros were always good for group play, their solo capabilities were pretty bad until recently.

Just beacuse magcro is suddenly stronger overall than sorc, it doesnt mean that every will just abandon their main and metahop to necro.

Some people will, of course, but a lot of people play their favorite class regardless of how weak it is.

Magsorc is also a base game class so more people likely to main it than magcro, which is the newest class in the game, even if its been out for a couple of years now.

Again just beacuse a class is popular it doesnt mean its overall kit is the strongest.

People always flock to what ever is strongest..... a little while ago most people where on stamcros and stamdens during the dot meta magplars where everywhere..... but according too you very few switch.... as far as I can tell there is few that will switch and many more that will.... I mean a little while ago there where way les magsorcs running about but all of a sudden they popped up everywhere.... and how can you say magsorcs has a weaker class toolkit?..... their burst is superior they have access to a lot of stuns as well as a very good defense when combining shield stacks and streak not to mention being able to go full on with pets too which body block a lot of attacks..... what necro has 1 good burst skill and a good defense.... I mean if you where to nerf ghost and mortal coil as well as blast bones what is left???..... they have 3 strong skills one of which sometimes just stands around and never deals its damage and another you have to stand still for to be able to utilize it and you cannot even use Los otherwise it will break...... but sure let's nerf magcro and laugh at whatever is left..... let's do the same to it to what has been done to mag blade.....

Nerf coil, ghost and blastbones and what's left?
5pc deadly strike lvl dmg passive, same dot mitigation, multiple free skills, on demands major protection, a defensive ultimate that makes you literally unkillable by anything that's not a coordinated grp, one of the most valued pve ultimates(Colo) in the game, one the best ulti gen in the game, multiple strong healing modifiers, the best purge skill in the game.
You know I'm gonna stop here, but the list goes on.
Magsorc has a strong burst, but it's very predictable, and easier to avoid frags than blastbones(well you can't).
Shields are strong in cp pvp but their not that great in no cp due to multiple scalers missing, steak is incredible and can get you out of hairy situations true, don't get me wrong magsorc is strong always have been, but it doesn't mean it's the best.
Frankly I would probably put magcro and magsorc on somewhat equal footing, as opposed to 1 being better, but magcro is very powerful right now, it has been incredible in grp pvp and duels for a long time and it's actually pretty good for solo open world as well now, ain't nothing wrong with that, not sure why a few ppl here try to make it sound like it's not.

Seraphayel

Something I‘d like to get answered as well, let me quote myself:

Nightblade: 25.5 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Sorcerer: 29 (Stam) vs. 30 (Mag)
Dragonknight: 20 (Stam) vs. 25 (Mag)
Templar: 17.5 (Stam) vs. 19 (Mag)
Warden: 28 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Necromancer: 28.5 (Stam) vs. 24 (Mag)

Based on this Nightblades (Stam), Sorcerers (Stam + Mag), Dragonknights (Mag), Wardens (Stam) and Necromancers (Stam) do have better toolkits.

If we pit MagCro against the six builds mentioned above that have a better (rated) toolkit - in a 1v1 situation, both players have the same skill level and the same quality of equipment etc. - who would win?

SshadowSscale

Seraphayel wrote: »

Something I‘d like to get answered as well, let me quote myself:

Nightblade: 25.5 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Sorcerer: 29 (Stam) vs. 30 (Mag)
Dragonknight: 20 (Stam) vs. 25 (Mag)
Templar: 17.5 (Stam) vs. 19 (Mag)
Warden: 28 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Necromancer: 28.5 (Stam) vs. 24 (Mag)

Based on this Nightblades (Stam), Sorcerers (Stam + Mag), Dragonknights (Mag), Wardens (Stam) and Necromancers (Stam) do have better toolkits.

If we pit MagCro against the six builds mentioned above that have a better (rated) toolkit - in a 1v1 situation, both players have the same skill level and the same quality of equipment etc. - who would win?

I don't understand the point based system if we are gonna say oh ok mag sorc has 30 points and mag cro has 24 but yeah nah let's just place mag cro above mag sorc in everything because clearly it's way better and so op

Cloudless

I'm gonna need a build for the new and improved magcro, last time I tried it in PvP it was absolute chocolate yogurt

MurderMostFoul

I always appreciate the obvious time, effort, and thought put into your lists.

But man, my experience in solo queue BGs on Xbox NA this patch really doesn't align with the BG tier list you've included here.

sunshineflame

So much energy put into something so subjective...hope it was fun

BohnT2

Seraphayel wrote: »

Something I‘d like to get answered as well, let me quote myself:

Nightblade: 25.5 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Sorcerer: 29 (Stam) vs. 30 (Mag)
Dragonknight: 20 (Stam) vs. 25 (Mag)
Templar: 17.5 (Stam) vs. 19 (Mag)
Warden: 28 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Necromancer: 28.5 (Stam) vs. 24 (Mag)

Based on this Nightblades (Stam), Sorcerers (Stam + Mag), Dragonknights (Mag), Wardens (Stam) and Necromancers (Stam) do have better toolkits.

If we pit MagCro against the six builds mentioned above that have a better (rated) toolkit - in a 1v1 situation, both players have the same skill level and the same quality of equipment etc. - who would win?

You can't simply add up those points and decide a winner because those categories aren't equally balanced with one another ad they influence the outcome of a fight in different ways.

Also this list doesn't take any form of duels in consideration because they're a whole different story (one where magnecro is very strong)

I'll repeat myself, magnecro is not that high on the list because it has superior offense but rather because it has sufficient offense with a superior defense.

Tolino

sunshineflame wrote: »

So much energy put into something so subjective...hope it was fun

I'm sure your subjective opinion is less biased than 30+ known, good PvP Players who worked out a PvP-Tierlist together...

Sangwyne

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

I think you might be reading too much into the post. Nowhere were buffs or nerfs to the classes ever even discussed in the original post; the creators simply outlined the conclusion they have come to after likely hundreds of combined hours spent testing these builds in PvP, and I am grateful that each patch they have continued to do so purely for our benefit. They're not the ones with a hidden agenda here.

Firstmep

Sangwyne wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This tier list basically says buff magsorc and nerf magcro and stamden.... aight lets buff magsroc so that everyone plays it since most already play it and nerf magcro so the few that play it can quit entirely

I think you might be reading too much into the post. Nowhere were buffs or nerfs to the classes ever even discussed in the original post; the creators simply outlined the conclusion they have come to after likely hundreds of combined hours spent testing these builds in PvP, and I am grateful that each patch they have continued to do so purely for our benefit. They're not the ones with a hidden agenda here.

This, some people seem to think that this is a nerf magcro post, it simply outlines overall strengths of each class and spec.
Individual skill is still going to matter, I still bash heads in with both mag and stamplar, but I also play other specs and know what I can do with for example stamcro.