PvP Tierlist for Flames of Ambition

Faded

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

Good luck fitting shade unto your bar on a magnb.

Oh

Larcomar

Faded wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

Good luck fitting shade unto your bar on a magnb.

Oh

Yeah.....

Greek_Hellspawn

BG stam Templar/Dk/Nb worst than their magicka counterparts? Really?
Especially nightblade it's just a joke to say that mag is better than stam.
Also mag sorc/dk/necro/warden better than stam necro.... LMAO

SshadowSscale

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

techyeshic

Firstmep wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

I completely disagree with this tier list and have to speak out loud on it. I play stamden on a regular basis (at least 8h already this patch and even more for the last patches) and I can tell you it is everything else than S-tier.

[snip]

First of all, wardens have no good healing. We all know that only stamina is good in Cyro because they can break free and magicka cannot - at least not twice in a row.

Stamina has no good access to healing because vigor got nerfed a lot and is only 4 seconds now, so I am forced to cast it basically all the time now. Of course I cannot be forced to and I took vigor off my bars like the better PvP players have all done (e.g. Kristofer ESO).

The other warden healing skills are all magicka or have a very bad animation, so no-one uses them. The only exception is the polar wind skill, which scales off your health. But high health is really bad because it takes very long to heal to full again. For example I can heal to full with one polar wind from 60%HP at 20k MaxHP but I cannot at 35k, which makes stacking health on warden an extremely bad idea.
That's also one of the main flaws in design for warden (I have to take points out of passive for minor toughness).

My bear as the only good warden ult also interferes sometimes with my burst from snipe (which I slotted instead of the bugs as they seemed to just go randomly in front of me and don't hit targets I aim the crosshairs at).

All in all, I often stumble into situations where I cannot outheal even the slightest pressure. I use healing ward back bar as my main heal and I just quickly run out of magicka when I use it.

So this tier list is just wrong for every single class and every single assumption.

In my opinion it also judges players by what class they play and thus is very discriminatory. It puts players into an imaginary tier based on what content they enjoy and something like that is just hostile and doesn't help the community at all. It's play how you want and not get judged and discriminated by what you play!!!

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Happy April 1st!

Ohhh. Is that still going on somewhere. Hahah Got me there. LOL Stamden no healing. Thats a knee slapper

Seraphayel

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

BG stam Templar/Dk/Nb worst than their magicka counterparts? Really?
Especially nightblade it's just a joke to say that mag is better than stam.
Also mag sorc/dk/necro/warden better than stam necro.... LMAO

Yeah. It’s pretty hilarious. And then Stam specs rated C or D is as funny as MagSorc not being top tier. But hey, top PvP players said this.

Urzigurumash

SshadowSscale wrote: »

how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????

I think it's true that MagCro doesn't have quite the burst a MagSorc does, or at least their burst is much more easily avoided, and of course they don't have the mobility, but like the OP said, the way Living Death heals scale off Spell Damage has put MagCro way ahead of the pack in terms of tankiness. When you're fighting one of them in mostly light it seems like they're in mostly heavy. Once a MagSorc's shields are down they're not all that tanky.

Firstmep

xaraan wrote: »

I don't know that I wouldn't nitpick certain placements on the list, but one thing I definitely agree with is that Magplar feels the worst class by far in Cyrodiil currently. (I play in usually small groups like 2-5 or maybe solo at times). I'ts like, not even in the same league as my other classes (like you need to add some lower grades like past D to move magplar into).

Magplar does feel terrible outnumbered, I feel like were back again to the point wh

Seraphayel wrote: »

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

BG stam Templar/Dk/Nb worst than their magicka counterparts? Really?
Especially nightblade it's just a joke to say that mag is better than stam.
Also mag sorc/dk/necro/warden better than stam necro.... LMAO

Yeah. It’s pretty hilarious. And then Stam specs rated C or D is as funny as MagSorc not being top tier. But hey, top PvP players said this.

For group utility yes. I think this list really only considers Premade bgs.
Mag specs have superior cross healing, heck most Stam classes have none.
MagDK is better at grp control with talons spam, magplar has solid burst healing and can purify way more than stamplar.
And well you won't find a more useless spec for Premade bgs than stamblade so there's that.

BohnT2

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Syrusthevirus187

Berenhir wrote: »

I completely disagree with this tier list and have to speak out loud on it. I play stamden on a regular basis (at least 8h already this patch and even more for the last patches) and I can tell you it is everything else than S-tier.

[snip]

First of all, wardens have no good healing. We all know that only stamina is good in Cyro because they can break free and magicka cannot - at least not twice in a row.

Stamina has no good access to healing because vigor got nerfed a lot and is only 4 seconds now, so I am forced to cast it basically all the time now. Of course I cannot be forced to and I took vigor off my bars like the better PvP players have all done (e.g. Kristofer ESO).

The other warden healing skills are all magicka or have a very bad animation, so no-one uses them. The only exception is the polar wind skill, which scales off your health. But high health is really bad because it takes very long to heal to full again. For example I can heal to full with one polar wind from 60%HP at 20k MaxHP but I cannot at 35k, which makes stacking health on warden an extremely bad idea.
That's also one of the main flaws in design for warden (I have to take points out of passive for minor toughness).

My bear as the only good warden ult also interferes sometimes with my burst from snipe (which I slotted instead of the bugs as they seemed to just go randomly in front of me and don't hit targets I aim the crosshairs at).

All in all, I often stumble into situations where I cannot outheal even the slightest pressure. I use healing ward back bar as my main heal and I just quickly run out of magicka when I use it.

So this tier list is just wrong for every single class and every single assumption.

In my opinion it also judges players by what class they play and thus is very discriminatory. It puts players into an imaginary tier based on what content they enjoy and something like that is just hostile and doesn't help the community at all. It's play how you want and not get judged and discriminated by what you play!!!

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Lol. Thanks for the good laugh.

SshadowSscale

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Oh I read it and had a good laugh since you can just insert X class here in the explanation and it would make sense for example may sorc wich also has really good scaling on its abilities turning haubting curse and flags into a litteral nuke.... also can use dbos on them.... same can be said for other classes wich btw has better ults to use

L_Nici

I can agree with most of the list. Magicka got a lot out of this Patch, because its Magicka that benefits most from Max stats, the only class I don't really see anywhere near the top is magnecro, aside the fact that I don't see many Necros at all. About Magsorcs and Stamblades we don't need to talk almost half the Cyro population is those two classes.

Raegwyr

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Oh I read it and had a good laugh since you can just insert X class here in the explanation and it would make sense for example may sorc wich also has really good scaling on its abilities turning haubting curse and flags into a litteral nuke.... also can use dbos on them.... same can be said for other classes wich btw has better ults to use

And magnb got almost none of its problems resolved with changes. Burst still easy to avoid, healing still weak af. Some classes get a lot out of the changes like magcro, some were gutted like templars. It is not like a buff to everyone

BohnT2

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Oh I read it and had a good laugh since you can just insert X class here in the explanation and it would make sense for example may sorc wich also has really good scaling on its abilities turning haubting curse and flags into a litteral nuke.... also can use dbos on them.... same can be said for other classes wich btw has better ults to use

You can't just enter any class into this explanation because they work differently. Take magplar for example eventhough it's offence is really threatening it just can't keep up as its toolkit doesn't allow for offensive windows which in result leads to it being locked in one world.

Magsorc has profited from the changes which has pushed it into S-Tier for Solo play in no proc.
However unlike magnecro it hasn't seen enough defensive buffs as shields still scale with magicka only and magicka pools are more or less the same as last patch. This results in magsorc being less viable in scenarios where you can't streak away because you'd leave your group behind.

Magnecro has always struggled with offence, since it has been released it was always overtuned defensive wise due to its passive and 2 full defensive skill lines. What had held back its offences the most was blastbones being unreliable and dealing too little damage which punished you incredibly hard for every millisecond they'd hit too late. The second issue with its offensive power was the lack of a cheap burst ultimate which is an important part of being able to play solo, if you have to rely on a 250 cost ult you easily run into situations where you're overwhelmed because you didn't have your ult ready and couldn't finish off people before they'd swarm you.

Both these issues have been kinda resolved due to 1k free spelldamage and the CP changes while benefiting it's defensive power a lot, mortal coil is reaching incredible values as does intensive mender.


I don't have any reason to overhype magnecro, if you read through some of my previous post you'll see that I'm the last person to advocate for magnecro to be a viable spec, but this patch it really is viable even without procs.

SshadowSscale

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Oh I read it and had a good laugh since you can just insert X class here in the explanation and it would make sense for example may sorc wich also has really good scaling on its abilities turning haubting curse and flags into a litteral nuke.... also can use dbos on them.... same can be said for other classes wich btw has better ults to use

You can't just enter any class into this explanation because they work differently. Take magplar for example eventhough it's offence is really threatening it just can't keep up as its toolkit doesn't allow for offensive windows which in result leads to it being locked in one world.

Magsorc has profited from the changes which has pushed it into S-Tier for Solo play in no proc.
However unlike magnecro it hasn't seen enough defensive buffs as shields still scale with magicka only and magicka pools are more or less the same as last patch. This results in magsorc being less viable in scenarios where you can't streak away because you'd leave your group behind.

Magnecro has always struggled with offence, since it has been released it was always overtuned defensive wise due to its passive and 2 full defensive skill lines. What had held back its offences the most was blastbones being unreliable and dealing too little damage which punished you incredibly hard for every millisecond they'd hit too late. The second issue with its offensive power was the lack of a cheap burst ultimate which is an important part of being able to play solo, if you have to rely on a 250 cost ult you easily run into situations where you're overwhelmed because you didn't have your ult ready and couldn't finish off people before they'd swarm you.

Both these issues have been kinda resolved due to 1k free spelldamage and the CP changes while benefiting it's defensive power a lot, mortal coil is reaching incredible values as does intensive mender.


I don't have any reason to overhype magnecro, if you read through some of my previous post you'll see that I'm the last person to advocate for magnecro to be a viable spec, but this patch it really is viable even without procs.

The 1k spell power does not not make blast bones a nuke unless you go full class canon on magcro..... and even if cp benefits it a lot the fact that it's better than any other class according to this tier list except maybe stamden is still a joke.... 1k spell power and boom it's op and better than anything in both cp and no cp..... that is hard to believe and quite funny.... keep in mind the point of no cp is not having cp.... with no procs and no cp( one of the 2 reasons you listed that has made it the strongest class in game) it only received 1k spell power same as everyone else..... so you are telling me macro lacked 1k spell power to go from one of the weakest to the best class in game...... I mean still the fact that it's above magsorc wich has a great defense it has great mobility and great sustain as well as great burst is also weird.... playing on a magsorc feels like an entirely different game..... magsorc is way easier and you can do a lot more than on a magnrcro

Canned_Apples

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

I totally disagree with the whole list. Magcro needs a buff!

PvP Magicka Necromancer has the worst offensive toolkit of any class by far!
Harmony nerf
Major vuln nerf
Mag blastbones essentially has no secondary effect since the damage modifier doesn't work now that blastbones doesn't run to the target.
Mag skulls are very slow spammable and have inferior secondary effects compared to other spammable options such as Force Pulse, Elemental Weapon, and even the stam skulls.
The Skeletal Arcanist deals incredibly low damage after battlespirit and doesn't target who you're immediately trying to kill.
Mystic siphon is completely useless in PvP.
Hungry Scythe from the Bone Tyrant tree just doesn't do enough damage to warrant use.
Despite having a DOT damage passive, mag necros don't have a single viable DOT for PvP in their class trees
Mag necros have no class access to major sorcery OR major prophecy.

The only offensive skill he mentioned was blast bones because none of the other ones matter.
Force pulse will always be the go to for mag classes like dswing is for Stam classes.

SshadowSscale

Canned_Apples wrote: »

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

I totally disagree with the whole list. Magcro needs a buff!

PvP Magicka Necromancer has the worst offensive toolkit of any class by far!
Harmony nerf
Major vuln nerf
Mag blastbones essentially has no secondary effect since the damage modifier doesn't work now that blastbones doesn't run to the target.
Mag skulls are very slow spammable and have inferior secondary effects compared to other spammable options such as Force Pulse, Elemental Weapon, and even the stam skulls.
The Skeletal Arcanist deals incredibly low damage after battlespirit and doesn't target who you're immediately trying to kill.
Mystic siphon is completely useless in PvP.
Hungry Scythe from the Bone Tyrant tree just doesn't do enough damage to warrant use.
Despite having a DOT damage passive, mag necros don't have a single viable DOT for PvP in their class trees
Mag necros have no class access to major sorcery OR major prophecy.

The only offensive skill he mentioned was blast bones because none of the other ones matter.
Force pulse will always be the go to for mag classes like dswing is for Stam classes.

Yet magsorc gas haunting curse as well as c frags..... dks has their class based dot lava whip and fire breath all of wich are decent... they do however suffer from purge for example.... the point being is not saying these classes are op but stating that they have more than one offensive class skill that is good..... magcro has blast bones...... yet that alone makes their offerse suddenly the best in the game???..... you know.... the skill that sometimes decides not to work and still has a useless morph..... yeah that one skill alone makes magnecro burst best in the game completely op.... ok lol

Brrrofski

I don't even think I've seen any small scale/solo magcros on my server. Like seen a few zergling ones, but that doesn't count.

Interesting. I played a lot of magcro when it came out, but kinda moves on more recently.

So far this patch, I've been playing magsorc and stamsorc mostly, but also played stamcro, Stam warden, stamplar, magplar stam NB and mag NB.

I do think magsorc and stam NB are head and shoulders above the others. Kings of single target, quick burst and as well as some classes might heal, these two classes are king of just flat out avoiding damage. Avoiding damage is better than good healing imo.

Stamsoec is good too, but you're so open to taking damage with dizzying. Also, crystal weapon with dizzying is good burst, but not reliable. Like if someone dodges dizzying, they dodge it all. Crystal weapon is kinda crap too, sometimes lights, medium and heavies miss the guy standing right in front of you.

Stamcro and Stam warden are both still very good. Healing on warden is a bit less potent if you want a more damage build, but still good.

Mag NB has the same issues as before - completely obvious burst that takes too long to line up. Also, to the guy not using shade - you're out of your mind.

Stamplar and magplar I found rough. Both, mag more so have always suffered from having a hard time from going defensive to offensive. Other classes with instant spammables can sneak one in while being defensive. Like a procced frag on a mag sorc and a curse, while being defensive turns fights instantly.

Also, there's so much AOE damage reduction now (less people using heavy now so more shuffle, new CP to reduce AOE damage, medium armor passives) that sweeps/jabs feel like they do nothing on some people.

A Templar's strongest tool also lost a bit of power. In this meta, there's not as much damage over time. Procs are out, malacath is out, not many dots around. I guess there's new debuffs to purge. Which reminds me, sundered now means POTL has zero use and Stamplar has lost another class skill. It's useless now.

BohnT2

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Oh I read it and had a good laugh since you can just insert X class here in the explanation and it would make sense for example may sorc wich also has really good scaling on its abilities turning haubting curse and flags into a litteral nuke.... also can use dbos on them.... same can be said for other classes wich btw has better ults to use

You can't just enter any class into this explanation because they work differently. Take magplar for example eventhough it's offence is really threatening it just can't keep up as its toolkit doesn't allow for offensive windows which in result leads to it being locked in one world.

Magsorc has profited from the changes which has pushed it into S-Tier for Solo play in no proc.
However unlike magnecro it hasn't seen enough defensive buffs as shields still scale with magicka only and magicka pools are more or less the same as last patch. This results in magsorc being less viable in scenarios where you can't streak away because you'd leave your group behind.

Magnecro has always struggled with offence, since it has been released it was always overtuned defensive wise due to its passive and 2 full defensive skill lines. What had held back its offences the most was blastbones being unreliable and dealing too little damage which punished you incredibly hard for every millisecond they'd hit too late. The second issue with its offensive power was the lack of a cheap burst ultimate which is an important part of being able to play solo, if you have to rely on a 250 cost ult you easily run into situations where you're overwhelmed because you didn't have your ult ready and couldn't finish off people before they'd swarm you.

Both these issues have been kinda resolved due to 1k free spelldamage and the CP changes while benefiting it's defensive power a lot, mortal coil is reaching incredible values as does intensive mender.


I don't have any reason to overhype magnecro, if you read through some of my previous post you'll see that I'm the last person to advocate for magnecro to be a viable spec, but this patch it really is viable even without procs.

The 1k spell power does not not make blast bones a nuke unless you go full class canon on magcro..... and even if cp benefits it a lot the fact that it's better than any other class according to this tier list except maybe stamden is still a joke.... 1k spell power and boom it's op and better than anything in both cp and no cp..... that is hard to believe and quite funny.... keep in mind the point of no cp is not having cp.... with no procs and no cp( one of the 2 reasons you listed that has made it the strongest class in game) it only received 1k spell power same as everyone else..... so you are telling me macro lacked 1k spell power to go from one of the weakest to the best class in game...... I mean still the fact that it's above magsorc wich has a great defense it has great mobility and great sustain as well as great burst is also weird.... playing on a magsorc feels like an entirely different game..... magsorc is way easier and you can do a lot more than on a magnrcro

Blastbones have become a nuke.


Also you're wrong by assuming we said magnecro has the best offence, we clearly state it just has a potential damage output of 6/10, other classes easily surpass them.
But we're not fighting target dummies who just take the beating, damage taken has seen a big increase when you're getting zerged. Magnecro can play a less tanky setup than others because it inherits so much defensive power while other classes just die the second they face 3-4 enemies.

To sum it up in one short sentence:
Doesn't die but can kill.


Here's a video of one person who has worked on the list with us, showcasing what magnecro is capable of this patch.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CF95mAN7w

Firstmep

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Oh I read it and had a good laugh since you can just insert X class here in the explanation and it would make sense for example may sorc wich also has really good scaling on its abilities turning haubting curse and flags into a litteral nuke.... also can use dbos on them.... same can be said for other classes wich btw has better ults to use

Yeah but necro is also the tankiest class in the game with a ton dmg reduction, healing, the best purge skill, a solid burst heal, and the list goes on.

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Oh I read it and had a good laugh since you can just insert X class here in the explanation and it would make sense for example may sorc wich also has really good scaling on its abilities turning haubting curse and flags into a litteral nuke.... also can use dbos on them.... same can be said for other classes wich btw has better ults to use

You can't just enter any class into this explanation because they work differently. Take magplar for example eventhough it's offence is really threatening it just can't keep up as its toolkit doesn't allow for offensive windows which in result leads to it being locked in one world.

Magsorc has profited from the changes which has pushed it into S-Tier for Solo play in no proc.
However unlike magnecro it hasn't seen enough defensive buffs as shields still scale with magicka only and magicka pools are more or less the same as last patch. This results in magsorc being less viable in scenarios where you can't streak away because you'd leave your group behind.

Magnecro has always struggled with offence, since it has been released it was always overtuned defensive wise due to its passive and 2 full defensive skill lines. What had held back its offences the most was blastbones being unreliable and dealing too little damage which punished you incredibly hard for every millisecond they'd hit too late. The second issue with its offensive power was the lack of a cheap burst ultimate which is an important part of being able to play solo, if you have to rely on a 250 cost ult you easily run into situations where you're overwhelmed because you didn't have your ult ready and couldn't finish off people before they'd swarm you.

Both these issues have been kinda resolved due to 1k free spelldamage and the CP changes while benefiting it's defensive power a lot, mortal coil is reaching incredible values as does intensive mender.


I don't have any reason to overhype magnecro, if you read through some of my previous post you'll see that I'm the last person to advocate for magnecro to be a viable spec, but this patch it really is viable even without procs.

The 1k spell power does not not make blast bones a nuke unless you go full class canon on magcro..... and even if cp benefits it a lot the fact that it's better than any other class according to this tier list except maybe stamden is still a joke.... 1k spell power and boom it's op and better than anything in both cp and no cp..... that is hard to believe and quite funny.... keep in mind the point of no cp is not having cp.... with no procs and no cp( one of the 2 reasons you listed that has made it the strongest class in game) it only received 1k spell power same as everyone else..... so you are telling me macro lacked 1k spell power to go from one of the weakest to the best class in game...... I mean still the fact that it's above magsorc wich has a great defense it has great mobility and great sustain as well as great burst is also weird.... playing on a magsorc feels like an entirely different game..... magsorc is way easier and you can do a lot more than on a magnrcro

Blastbones have become a nuke.


Also you're wrong by assuming we said magnecro has the best offence, we clearly state it just has a potential damage output of 6/10, other classes easily surpass them.
But we're not fighting target dummies who just take the beating, damage taken has seen a big increase when you're getting zerged. Magnecro can play a less tanky setup than others because it inherits so much defensive power while other classes just die the second they face 3-4 enemies.

To sum it up in one short sentence:
Doesn't die but can kill.


Here's a video of one person who has worked on the list with us, showcasing what magnecro is capable of this patch.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CF95mAN7w

Yeah, you cant just look at killing power to determine a classes strength overall.

I'll be honest I've never found dizzy builds op on any class, but you put it on necro or warden that has the survival to actually pull of a dizzy build and it's a different game altogether.

SshadowSscale

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Oh I read it and had a good laugh since you can just insert X class here in the explanation and it would make sense for example may sorc wich also has really good scaling on its abilities turning haubting curse and flags into a litteral nuke.... also can use dbos on them.... same can be said for other classes wich btw has better ults to use

You can't just enter any class into this explanation because they work differently. Take magplar for example eventhough it's offence is really threatening it just can't keep up as its toolkit doesn't allow for offensive windows which in result leads to it being locked in one world.

Magsorc has profited from the changes which has pushed it into S-Tier for Solo play in no proc.
However unlike magnecro it hasn't seen enough defensive buffs as shields still scale with magicka only and magicka pools are more or less the same as last patch. This results in magsorc being less viable in scenarios where you can't streak away because you'd leave your group behind.

Magnecro has always struggled with offence, since it has been released it was always overtuned defensive wise due to its passive and 2 full defensive skill lines. What had held back its offences the most was blastbones being unreliable and dealing too little damage which punished you incredibly hard for every millisecond they'd hit too late. The second issue with its offensive power was the lack of a cheap burst ultimate which is an important part of being able to play solo, if you have to rely on a 250 cost ult you easily run into situations where you're overwhelmed because you didn't have your ult ready and couldn't finish off people before they'd swarm you.

Both these issues have been kinda resolved due to 1k free spelldamage and the CP changes while benefiting it's defensive power a lot, mortal coil is reaching incredible values as does intensive mender.


I don't have any reason to overhype magnecro, if you read through some of my previous post you'll see that I'm the last person to advocate for magnecro to be a viable spec, but this patch it really is viable even without procs.

The 1k spell power does not not make blast bones a nuke unless you go full class canon on magcro..... and even if cp benefits it a lot the fact that it's better than any other class according to this tier list except maybe stamden is still a joke.... 1k spell power and boom it's op and better than anything in both cp and no cp..... that is hard to believe and quite funny.... keep in mind the point of no cp is not having cp.... with no procs and no cp( one of the 2 reasons you listed that has made it the strongest class in game) it only received 1k spell power same as everyone else..... so you are telling me macro lacked 1k spell power to go from one of the weakest to the best class in game...... I mean still the fact that it's above magsorc wich has a great defense it has great mobility and great sustain as well as great burst is also weird.... playing on a magsorc feels like an entirely different game..... magsorc is way easier and you can do a lot more than on a magnrcro

Blastbones have become a nuke.


Also you're wrong by assuming we said magnecro has the best offence, we clearly state it just has a potential damage output of 6/10, other classes easily surpass them.
But we're not fighting target dummies who just take the beating, damage taken has seen a big increase when you're getting zerged. Magnecro can play a less tanky setup than others because it inherits so much defensive power while other classes just die the second they face 3-4 enemies.

To sum it up in one short sentence:
Doesn't die but can kill.


Here's a video of one person who has worked on the list with us, showcasing what magnecro is capable of this patch.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CF95mAN7w

Still my point is that mag blade is no where near as high as you put it and that is without the latest cloak bugs wich makes it useless and the other morph of cloak is just a sad version of what a lot of other classes have..... and magcro is no way above mag sorc for solo especially in no cp.... sorry but if that's the case then I am hell confused because there are barely any magcro out there but mag sorc are popping up left right and center.... yet according to this list it's just above being in the middle of the pack for most cases

Firstmep

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Oh I read it and had a good laugh since you can just insert X class here in the explanation and it would make sense for example may sorc wich also has really good scaling on its abilities turning haubting curse and flags into a litteral nuke.... also can use dbos on them.... same can be said for other classes wich btw has better ults to use

You can't just enter any class into this explanation because they work differently. Take magplar for example eventhough it's offence is really threatening it just can't keep up as its toolkit doesn't allow for offensive windows which in result leads to it being locked in one world.

Magsorc has profited from the changes which has pushed it into S-Tier for Solo play in no proc.
However unlike magnecro it hasn't seen enough defensive buffs as shields still scale with magicka only and magicka pools are more or less the same as last patch. This results in magsorc being less viable in scenarios where you can't streak away because you'd leave your group behind.

Magnecro has always struggled with offence, since it has been released it was always overtuned defensive wise due to its passive and 2 full defensive skill lines. What had held back its offences the most was blastbones being unreliable and dealing too little damage which punished you incredibly hard for every millisecond they'd hit too late. The second issue with its offensive power was the lack of a cheap burst ultimate which is an important part of being able to play solo, if you have to rely on a 250 cost ult you easily run into situations where you're overwhelmed because you didn't have your ult ready and couldn't finish off people before they'd swarm you.

Both these issues have been kinda resolved due to 1k free spelldamage and the CP changes while benefiting it's defensive power a lot, mortal coil is reaching incredible values as does intensive mender.


I don't have any reason to overhype magnecro, if you read through some of my previous post you'll see that I'm the last person to advocate for magnecro to be a viable spec, but this patch it really is viable even without procs.

The 1k spell power does not not make blast bones a nuke unless you go full class canon on magcro..... and even if cp benefits it a lot the fact that it's better than any other class according to this tier list except maybe stamden is still a joke.... 1k spell power and boom it's op and better than anything in both cp and no cp..... that is hard to believe and quite funny.... keep in mind the point of no cp is not having cp.... with no procs and no cp( one of the 2 reasons you listed that has made it the strongest class in game) it only received 1k spell power same as everyone else..... so you are telling me macro lacked 1k spell power to go from one of the weakest to the best class in game...... I mean still the fact that it's above magsorc wich has a great defense it has great mobility and great sustain as well as great burst is also weird.... playing on a magsorc feels like an entirely different game..... magsorc is way easier and you can do a lot more than on a magnrcro

Blastbones have become a nuke.


Also you're wrong by assuming we said magnecro has the best offence, we clearly state it just has a potential damage output of 6/10, other classes easily surpass them.
But we're not fighting target dummies who just take the beating, damage taken has seen a big increase when you're getting zerged. Magnecro can play a less tanky setup than others because it inherits so much defensive power while other classes just die the second they face 3-4 enemies.

To sum it up in one short sentence:
Doesn't die but can kill.


Here's a video of one person who has worked on the list with us, showcasing what magnecro is capable of this patch.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CF95mAN7w

Still my point is that mag blade is no where near as high as you put it and that is without the latest cloak bugs wich makes it useless and the other morph of cloak is just a sad version of what a lot of other classes have..... and magcro is no way above mag sorc for solo especially in no cp.... sorry but if that's the case then I am hell confused because there are barely any magcro out there but mag sorc are popping up left right and center.... yet according to this list it's just above being in the middle of the pack for most cases

Sorc shields are not as potent in no cp, there are 2 cps that boost max mag and 2 that boost hp as well as bastion.
You don't get any of that in no cp.
Magcro mitigation passives on the other hand only get stronger in no cp, Beacuse of how %modifiers work.

gariondavey

Pretty accurate list, as usual. Thanks for the post!

Gythral

& I was expecting yet another TEAR list

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Brrrofski wrote: »

Mag NB has the same issues as before - completely obvious burst that takes too long to line up. Also, to the guy not using shade - you're out of your mind.

Like I already said its not about me refusing to use shade rather me not having enough space on my skillbar. I run shade on Stamnb without any issues, it synergizes well with the roly poly playstyle.

MagNB suffers from skillbar set-up/a cramped up skill bar, overly telegraphed burst combo (Spectral Bow and Soul Harvest sound cues), unreliable defenses (invis is bugged), bad healing (you literally have to stack dark cloak, swallow soul, siphnoning strikes, rapid regen and a magic shield just to not get one banged), unreliable/dodgable offensive abilities and thats supposed to be B tier (average) ? Come on...

How is it a higher tier than a StamDK who has still decent healing, good burst through leap and good pressure though DoTs, decent mobility with a bow and roll dodge. Or 2 tiers higher than a Magplar.

I dont disagree with the higher tiers, but the lower tiers just seem biased/wrong.

SshadowSscale

Firstmep wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

So magcro for lost procs but hey all of a sudden it's the best spec in the game..... and mag nb..... what???I am hella confused..... with the latest bugs to cloak and magblade burst still being a joke with no reliable class self heal..... did I miss some major buffs..... how the hell is magcro above mag sorc?????
edit: Please tell me this is some kind of late April Fools joke

Have you read the explanation for magnecro in the initial post?

Oh I read it and had a good laugh since you can just insert X class here in the explanation and it would make sense for example may sorc wich also has really good scaling on its abilities turning haubting curse and flags into a litteral nuke.... also can use dbos on them.... same can be said for other classes wich btw has better ults to use

You can't just enter any class into this explanation because they work differently. Take magplar for example eventhough it's offence is really threatening it just can't keep up as its toolkit doesn't allow for offensive windows which in result leads to it being locked in one world.

Magsorc has profited from the changes which has pushed it into S-Tier for Solo play in no proc.
However unlike magnecro it hasn't seen enough defensive buffs as shields still scale with magicka only and magicka pools are more or less the same as last patch. This results in magsorc being less viable in scenarios where you can't streak away because you'd leave your group behind.

Magnecro has always struggled with offence, since it has been released it was always overtuned defensive wise due to its passive and 2 full defensive skill lines. What had held back its offences the most was blastbones being unreliable and dealing too little damage which punished you incredibly hard for every millisecond they'd hit too late. The second issue with its offensive power was the lack of a cheap burst ultimate which is an important part of being able to play solo, if you have to rely on a 250 cost ult you easily run into situations where you're overwhelmed because you didn't have your ult ready and couldn't finish off people before they'd swarm you.

Both these issues have been kinda resolved due to 1k free spelldamage and the CP changes while benefiting it's defensive power a lot, mortal coil is reaching incredible values as does intensive mender.


I don't have any reason to overhype magnecro, if you read through some of my previous post you'll see that I'm the last person to advocate for magnecro to be a viable spec, but this patch it really is viable even without procs.

The 1k spell power does not not make blast bones a nuke unless you go full class canon on magcro..... and even if cp benefits it a lot the fact that it's better than any other class according to this tier list except maybe stamden is still a joke.... 1k spell power and boom it's op and better than anything in both cp and no cp..... that is hard to believe and quite funny.... keep in mind the point of no cp is not having cp.... with no procs and no cp( one of the 2 reasons you listed that has made it the strongest class in game) it only received 1k spell power same as everyone else..... so you are telling me macro lacked 1k spell power to go from one of the weakest to the best class in game...... I mean still the fact that it's above magsorc wich has a great defense it has great mobility and great sustain as well as great burst is also weird.... playing on a magsorc feels like an entirely different game..... magsorc is way easier and you can do a lot more than on a magnrcro

Blastbones have become a nuke.


Also you're wrong by assuming we said magnecro has the best offence, we clearly state it just has a potential damage output of 6/10, other classes easily surpass them.
But we're not fighting target dummies who just take the beating, damage taken has seen a big increase when you're getting zerged. Magnecro can play a less tanky setup than others because it inherits so much defensive power while other classes just die the second they face 3-4 enemies.

To sum it up in one short sentence:
Doesn't die but can kill.


Here's a video of one person who has worked on the list with us, showcasing what magnecro is capable of this patch.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CF95mAN7w

Still my point is that mag blade is no where near as high as you put it and that is without the latest cloak bugs wich makes it useless and the other morph of cloak is just a sad version of what a lot of other classes have..... and magcro is no way above mag sorc for solo especially in no cp.... sorry but if that's the case then I am hell confused because there are barely any magcro out there but mag sorc are popping up left right and center.... yet according to this list it's just above being in the middle of the pack for most cases

Sorc shields are not as potent in no cp, there are 2 cps that boost max mag and 2 that boost hp as well as bastion.
You don't get any of that in no cp.
Magcro mitigation passives on the other hand only get stronger in no cp, Beacuse of how %modifiers work.

sorc can shield stack better than any other class has accses to pets who can body block for them and then on top of it streak to get out of situations that are not favorable for them.... magnecro is gonna be able to mitagate a lot yes but will get overwhelmed eventually while sorc can just streak away and take out the few that chased..... and I really don't think I need to explain why sorc burst is superior to magnecro burst do I?

Seraphayel

Sangwyne wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Okay, let me correct some things here:

1. My main is an Argonian Templar. My Khajiit Necromancer is only my second or third alt, which is barely played at the moment. But granted, I’ll focus more on my Necromancer soon because I figured out a build and a background story for him I want to explore further.

2. I‘m not necessarily asking for Necromancer buffs, the toolkit itself isn’t bad, it’s just very clunky and the positional requirements for many skills are the biggest downside in PvP. Where you can make perfect use of Tethers, Blastbones etc in PvE, it’s really hard to make full use of them in PvP.

3. Those several dozen PvP players are just that. I don’t disrespect what they did here, I’m just saying the list is subjective - and maybe basing a list solely on PvP-Pros isn’t the best decision overall. How much skill is required to play a MagCro to the same potential as e.g. a Stamcro or a Stamden? This isn’t even debated here which is a major contributing factor to a classes‘ power - in my opinion. This should be added to the list and is my suggestion for the OPs when they’re planning to do the next list(s). Something like what skill level is required for build x to reach its full potential?

4. MagCro is almost always put above Magsorc in the ranking (except Cyrodiil CP solo play), although - due to said ranking - the class toolkit of Magsorc gets 30/40 points while MagCro gets 24/30. The only advantage MagCro seems to have is Defense Healing & Mitigation, where it beats Magsorc by 2 points. In every other category Magsorc beats MagCro - and MagCro is still rated superior to Magsorc?

5. On regard to 4.:

Nightblade: 25.5 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Sorcerer: 29 (Stam) vs. 30 (Mag)
Dragonknight: 20 (Stam) vs. 25 (Mag)
Templar: 17.5 (Stam) vs. 19 (Mag)
Warden: 28 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Necromancer: 28.5 (Stam) vs. 24 (Mag)

Something eventually doesn’t add up here. But that’s just my interpretation of the numbers and the corresponding results (this is my opinion).

Based on this Nightblades (Stam), Sorcerers (Stam + Mag), Dragonknights (Mag), Wardens (Stam) and Necromancers (Stam) do have better toolkits, but Magcro is somehow beating all of them / is on par with them?

6. I don’t see how Dawnbreaker benefits Magcros the most. Because the class toolkit on offensive Ultimates is bad, Magcro can finally make use of Dawnbreaker as a reliable burst ultimate? How is that limited to Magcros? Isn’t everyone and their mother already using Dawnbreaker for years in PvP? But all of a sudden this shoots Magcro to the top?

7. If I go by comment reactions, there are at least a bunch of guys that agree with me. So it’s not like I‘m a lone wolf. Again, that’s due to rankings mostly being an amalgamation of subjective opinions turned into a more or less objective end result.

[snip]

I want to make this clear: I very much appreciate the work from the OP and all the others that created this list. It’s a very good starting point for PvP and offers a lot of insights. That I and others disagree with some placements might be due to that lists like this are usually subjective - to a bigger or lesser extend. Often there’s no real consensus overall and that’s not bad, that’s helping the game. Consensus is usually only existing when there are extreme outliers in strengths or weaknesses (imbalance, overpowered or how you want to call it). The less consensus on what’s the best, the better.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Fhritz

The key word here is "theoretically"

Seraphayel

Fhritz wrote: »

The key word here is "theoretically"

Then I’m somehow missing the explanation why theoretically Magcro is weaker than many other specs, but practically stronger. Why is this only / mostly applying to Magcro? Why isn’t this the case for other specs? The only thing that seems to make Magcro stronger than any other spec is their defensive capabilities, which I agree with. In no other area they’re theoretically excelling.

SshadowSscale

Seraphayel wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Okay, let me correct some things here:

1. My main is an Argonian Templar. My Khajiit Necromancer is only my second or third alt, which is barely played at the moment. But granted, I’ll focus more on my Necromancer soon because I figured out a build and a background story for him I want to explore further.

2. I‘m not necessarily asking for Necromancer buffs, the toolkit itself isn’t bad, it’s just very clunky and the positional requirements for many skills are the biggest downside in PvP. Where you can make perfect use of Tethers, Blastbones etc in PvE, it’s really hard to make full use of them in PvP.

3. Those several dozen PvP players are just that. I don’t disrespect what they did here, I’m just saying the list is subjective - and maybe basing a list solely on PvP-Pros isn’t the best decision overall. How much skill is required to play a MagCro to the same potential as e.g. a Stamcro or a Stamden? This isn’t even debated here which is a major contributing factor to a classes‘ power - in my opinion. This should be added to the list and is my suggestion for the OPs when they’re planning to do the next list(s). Something like what skill level is required for build x to reach its full potential?

4. MagCro is almost always put above Magsorc in the ranking (except Cyrodiil CP solo play), although - due to said ranking - the class toolkit of Magsorc gets 30/40 points while MagCro gets 24/30. The only advantage MagCro seems to have is Defense Healing & Mitigation, where it beats Magsorc by 2 points. In every other category Magsorc beats MagCro - and MagCro is still rated superior to Magsorc?

5. On regard to 4.:

Nightblade: 25.5 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Sorcerer: 29 (Stam) vs. 30 (Mag)
Dragonknight: 20 (Stam) vs. 25 (Mag)
Templar: 17.5 (Stam) vs. 19 (Mag)
Warden: 28 (Stam) vs. 22 (Mag)
Necromancer: 28.5 (Stam) vs. 24 (Mag)

Something eventually doesn’t add up here. But that’s just my interpretation of the numbers and the corresponding results (this is my opinion).

Based on this Nightblades (Stam), Sorcerers (Stam + Mag), Dragonknights (Mag), Wardens (Stam) and Necromancers (Stam) do have better toolkits, but Magcro is somehow beating all of them / is on par with them?

6. I don’t see how Dawnbreaker benefits Magcros the most. Because the class toolkit on offensive Ultimates is bad, Magcro can finally make use of Dawnbreaker as a reliable burst ultimate? How is that limited to Magcros? Isn’t everyone and their mother already using Dawnbreaker for years in PvP? But all of a sudden this shoots Magcro to the top?

7. If I go by comment reactions, there are at least a bunch of guys that agree with me. So it’s not like I‘m a lone wolf. Again, that’s due to rankings mostly being an amalgamation of subjective opinions turned into a more or less objective end result.

[snip]

I want to make this clear: I very much appreciate the work from the OP and all the others that created this list. It’s a very good starting point for PvP and offers a lot of insights. That I and others disagree with some placements might be due to that lists like this are usually subjective - to a bigger or lesser extend. Often there’s no real consensus overall and that’s not bad, that’s helping the game. Consensus is usually only existing when there are extreme outliers in strengths or weaknesses (imbalance, overpowered or how you want to call it). The less consensus on what’s the best, the better.

Yeah nah something is really wrong with this tierlist..... magcro has 24 points..... stamcro has 28. 5 and stamden has 28.... stamsorc 29 and mag sorc 30..... Stam blade 25. 5 and mag dk 25...... yet magcro is placed at the top (alongside stamwarden) of the tier list as the best of the best...... something is wrong when all the others I mentioned has a higher point score