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The real problem with combat in Overland
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Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭[snip]
We are not going to see a 100% consensus on anything on these boards. At all. We can exchange ideas until we are blue in the face and ZoS can not implement a single thing. Does not mean we can advocate for a position or proposal we would like to see.
I never equated every "quit thread" to overland being too easy for them. In fact, I said the quitting numbers are unknown to us. That point still stands. But there are anecdotes about people quiting because of easy gameplay, I have seen some of the threads before deletion. Anecdotes are not evidence, therefore no hard evidence one way or another.
Customers can voice their complaints and offer suggestions. Guess what this thread is doing. Voicing complaints and offering solutions, not demanding. [snip]
All - It seems an newer adage really applies here. "Half of all the arguments on *instert platform* are assuming someones intentions and then getting mad at them for said intentions" That said, anyone bringing up old Crag as a "gotcha" or saying anyone is asking for a return to that is being disingenuous.
No one is asking for a zone that requires grouping, most of us just a bit more challenge in the large majority of the game space. Some probably do want it harder, take it up with them. Old Crag is dead, it can't hurt you.
[Edited to remove Baitinng]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 2, 2021 1:14PM1 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why do people keep ignoring the fact that no one can agree on want they want? There can be no solution without a identifiable problem. Your opinion is just that your opinion, mine is mine who is to say you are right or I am right. I do not see a problem with overland content. This is my opinion. If you want a different instance ask for that but don't ask for them to change overland to suit your needs because I don't feel the people asking for this are the majority of players.3 -
Maxx7410✭✭✭✭I agree that the overland Content is too easy and not sastifactory in combat and rewards1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Why do people keep ignoring the fact that no one can agree on want they want? There can be no solution without a identifiable problem. Your opinion is just that your opinion, mine is mine who is to say you are right or I am right. I do not see a problem with overland content. This is my opinion. If you want a different instance ask for that but don't ask for them to change overland to suit your needs because I don't feel the people asking for this are the majority of players.
Speaking as the person who started this thread and has been following what people have been saying.
No one has been proposing to change the existing instance of Overland. The OP is not worded in anyway to insinuate that (with & without edits)
No one in this thread has proposed it either.
———————————————————
We’ve pointed out the problem.
1. Enemies are weak, incapable, and don’t put the player in a position to get better. As consequence, Overland becomes very stale in a relatively short amount of time.
2. The Main Story Boss encounters are very lackluster. Undermining the questing experience.
———————————————————
The primary two suggestions that have been put out are;
1. Devs do nothing and Players Nerf Themselves, if they want to change up their Overland experience.
OR
2. Devs create a separate instance with improved mechanics & stats
People have made their points on why they are for or against these ideas.
———————————————————
Let’s not paint this issue like it’s a chaotic mess, people have been clear and articulate on their positions.5 -
SshadowSscale✭✭✭✭✭Jeffrey530 wrote: »BrownChicken wrote: »I can imagine how this year I will be able to defeat Mehrunes Dagon in two strikes ... And I feel scared for the game.
Kaalgrontiid boss of elsweyr has 1.7 mil health. I see you must be doing more than 8mil dps to kill bosses in 2 strikes.
Honestly it's sad to even have to state that it has a forced mechanic to nuke a large portion of his health bar at certain percentages.... it sucks and made it tedious in burning since the fight for me went like: skill.... oh time to nuke his health bar then skill just to have to nuke his health bar again.... and during the fight I never felt as if I could die it was just a boring hp bar wich had to get nuked.... having more hp does not make a fight harder.... it just makes it more annoying.... I honestly wish we could get a vet overland toggle or something so that those who wants more of a challenge can actually get it.... but for some reason people are so against us having a toggle for it.... and now companions are coming too so in all honesty I could just afk against the next story boss and let my companion kill him for me.... hell all I have to do for the story is move from x to y.... since I won't have to kill anything anymore because the companion will just do it for me3 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Player Feedback after 4 months of playing
https://youtu.be/Vf-X7Deb--I
Around 8:25
————————————I feel that the outdoor world is a bit too easy about 90% of the time and way too tedious the other 10%.
What I mean is the majority of the mobs you’re gonna fight in this game in the outside world are pathetically simple to slaughter.
You can cut them down by the dozens no problem but then you’ll encounter bigger NPCs every so often that take a little bit of time to kill because they have these big large health pools.
Now this wouldn’t be a big deal but the “Big NPCs” usually don’t have any mechanics aside from the basic ones that pretty much all NPCs have.
A forward cone attack, a leap-over-strike, and so on. That means you end up fighting tougher regular NPCs with a larger health pool, it just takes a while to kill them and just slows things down. I don’t think that’s fun.
If you’re gonna have tougher NPCs in the open world, you gotta make them Tougher - more mechanics, more ways that they can kill you, and so on and so forth.
Edited for spelling & grammarEdited by Iccotak on April 2, 2021 12:40PM4 -
Castagere✭✭✭✭✭OMG, another one of these posts. What's happening here is the vet trials and vet dungeon players are all gold geared out and now want the base game to cater to them. Having control of all the vet gameplay is not enough for them. If ZOS gives them what they want half the player base would quit and they could care less about that. These people that make these posts are selfish beyond belief.10 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OMG, another one of these posts. What's happening here is the vet trials and vet dungeon players are all gold geared out and now want the base game to cater to them. Having control of all the vet gameplay is not enough for them. If ZOS gives them what they want half the player base would quit and they could care less about that. These people that make these posts are selfish beyond belief.
Must be why they are asking for an optional instance with harder difficulty...........Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.6 -
TheFibrewire✭✭✭Yes there is no meaning full encounter mechanics in ESO, I rather not fight enemies at this point as they are just tedious not fun. I agree with your points, great post.3
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Ergele✭✭✭Majority of the game is overland content. I think experienced players deserve to enjoy it. It does not have to be endgame content hard. Just hard enough.5
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Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some people are asking for instances and some are not see the post above me. It's as I said people can not agree on what they want if you want it instanced great I hope you get it, but do not change the game play for me because I like overland content and difficulty. If you can't respect my opinion or how I play don't answer my post.Edited by Alurria on April 2, 2021 3:34PM4 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭Some people are asking for instances and some are not see the post above me. It's as I said people can not agree on what they want if you want it instanced great I hope you get it, but do not change the game play for me because I like overland content and difficulty. If you can't respect my opinion or how I play don't answer my post.
1 - Where in the post above yours say anything about it being game wide, instanced or really anything specific?
2- Please show a mass consensus from the player base about an issue (barring lag, which is universally hated and not dev created content...presumably) Every issue from which class needs a rework, vampires, werewolfs, pvp et all...none of these things have ever had a mass consensus on what should be done.4 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Some people are asking for instances and some are not see the post above me. It's as I said people can not agree on what they want if you want it instanced great I hope you get it, but do not change the game play for me because I like overland content and difficulty. If you can't respect my opinion or how I play don't answer my post.
Alurria, this has already been addressed time and time again.
Even recently by me.
No one advocating for changes wants to enforce their preference on the whole player base.
You keep pointing at others to be saying these things but you can look through the thread yourself to see that no one has advocated to taking away your current Overland experience.
Sure we are not in 100% agreement or assurance how this “Veteran Instance” would work but like I said before;
———————————————————Let’s not paint this issue like it’s a chaotic mess, people have been clear and articulate on their positions.
Now there’s that poll which isn’t helping because it’s starting the whole conversation all over again and some of us have to explain again that the problem isn’t difficulty so much as a lack of engagement.
Fighting Overland mobs encounters isn’t fun for the reasons listed in the OP and throughout the the thread.
And the Main Story encounters are very lackluster.
And Self Nerf has not helped. We’ve tried it and it doesn’t make the fights fun - Just longer and tedious.8 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some people are asking for instances and some are not see the post above me. It's as I said people can not agree on what they want if you want it instanced great I hope you get it, but do not change the game play for me because I like overland content and difficulty. If you can't respect my opinion or how I play don't answer my post.
Alurria, this has already been addressed time and time again.
Even recently by me.
No one advocating for changes wants to enforce their preference on the whole player base.
You keep pointing at others to be saying these things but you can look through the thread yourself to see that no one has advocated to taking away your current Overland experience.
Sure we are not in 100% agreement or assurance how this “Veteran Instance” would work but like I said before;
———————————————————Let’s not paint this issue like it’s a chaotic mess, people have been clear and articulate on their positions.
Now there’s that poll which isn’t helping because it’s starting the whole conversation all over again and some of us have to explain again that the problem isn’t difficulty so much as a lack of engagement.
Fighting Overland mobs encounters isn’t fun for the reasons listed in the OP and throughout the the thread.
And the Main Story encounters are very lackluster.
And Self Nerf has not helped. We’ve tried it and it doesn’t make the fights fun - Just longer and tedious.
Thank you for the clarification, it was apparent you and one other poster were asking for that but some others were not, because of the comments made about teaching players mechanics of the game. I see nothing wrong in wanting a harder instance mode for those who want it.1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some people are asking for instances and some are not see the post above me. It's as I said people can not agree on what they want if you want it instanced great I hope you get it, but do not change the game play for me because I like overland content and difficulty. If you can't respect my opinion or how I play don't answer my post.
Alurria, this has already been addressed time and time again.
Even recently by me.
No one advocating for changes wants to enforce their preference on the whole player base.
You keep pointing at others to be saying these things but you can look through the thread yourself to see that no one has advocated to taking away your current Overland experience.
Sure we are not in 100% agreement or assurance how this “Veteran Instance” would work but like I said before;
———————————————————Let’s not paint this issue like it’s a chaotic mess, people have been clear and articulate on their positions.
Now there’s that poll which isn’t helping because it’s starting the whole conversation all over again and some of us have to explain again that the problem isn’t difficulty so much as a lack of engagement.
Fighting Overland mobs encounters isn’t fun for the reasons listed in the OP and throughout the the thread.
And the Main Story encounters are very lackluster.
And Self Nerf has not helped. We’ve tried it and it doesn’t make the fights fun - Just longer and tedious.
Thank you for the clarification, it was apparent you and one other poster were asking for that but some others were not, because of the comments made about teaching players mechanics of the game. I see nothing wrong in wanting a harder instance mode for those who want it.
There are major problems with that;
This costs development and upkeep money.
Remember the people asking for “harder content” are not asking for npcs to have more hp and hit harder. They want them to have more abilities. So every mob, from mudcrabs to boss fights needs to be redone and rebalanced. Every encounter and npc interaction as well. So it’s not like zos can just turn a dial.
Splitting up players in already underpopulated zones means less people to group up with to fight such things as wb’s or geysers.
What exactly is the difficulty level aimed to be for? 160 cp? 300? 1000?
Tanks and healers have a hard enough time clearing content as it is. So the fraction of vet players that will use this mode seems small.
If the difficulty level is still too easy for some players, is a third difficulty level justified? A fourth?7 -
JTD✭✭✭TheFibrewire wrote: »Yes there is no meaning full encounter mechanics in ESO, I rather not fight enemies at this point as they are just tedious not fun. I agree with your points, great post.
Run past till they reach their agroresetrange and they'll wobble back. When at quest marker, wall fo elements 3/4 times and its done. Maybe a 'quest npc' Wall and 3 spammable's.
I just did the prelude quest for the Blackwood thing. The end fight in that questline... i dropped my destro ult and just waited. Jobs a goodn. That is just sad.
4 -
Ergele✭✭✭Can we get a champion tree that increases our damage taken by mobs/decreases our stats for more exp/gold/drops?3
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Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some people are asking for instances and some are not see the post above me. It's as I said people can not agree on what they want if you want it instanced great I hope you get it, but do not change the game play for me because I like overland content and difficulty. If you can't respect my opinion or how I play don't answer my post.
Alurria, this has already been addressed time and time again.
Even recently by me.
No one advocating for changes wants to enforce their preference on the whole player base.
You keep pointing at others to be saying these things but you can look through the thread yourself to see that no one has advocated to taking away your current Overland experience.
Sure we are not in 100% agreement or assurance how this “Veteran Instance” would work but like I said before;
———————————————————Let’s not paint this issue like it’s a chaotic mess, people have been clear and articulate on their positions.
Now there’s that poll which isn’t helping because it’s starting the whole conversation all over again and some of us have to explain again that the problem isn’t difficulty so much as a lack of engagement.
Fighting Overland mobs encounters isn’t fun for the reasons listed in the OP and throughout the the thread.
And the Main Story encounters are very lackluster.
And Self Nerf has not helped. We’ve tried it and it doesn’t make the fights fun - Just longer and tedious.
Thank you for the clarification, it was apparent you and one other poster were asking for that but some others were not, because of the comments made about teaching players mechanics of the game. I see nothing wrong in wanting a harder instance mode for those who want it.
There are major problems with that;
This costs development and upkeep money.
Remember the people asking for “harder content” are not asking for npcs to have more hp and hit harder. They want them to have more abilities. So every mob, from mudcrabs to boss fights needs to be redone and rebalanced. Every encounter and npc interaction as well. So it’s not like zos can just turn a dial.
Splitting up players in already underpopulated zones means less people to group up with to fight such things as wb’s or geysers.
What exactly is the difficulty level aimed to be for? 160 cp? 300? 1000?
Tanks and healers have a hard enough time clearing content as it is. So the fraction of vet players that will use this mode seems small.
If the difficulty level is still too easy for some players, is a third difficulty level justified? A fourth?
Tanks and healers got a nice upgrade in U29 as far as overland goes. The extra SD/WD is nice and really only needs a gear/ability change to perform well in overland.
With companions coming out soon the "Spliiting the player base" argument is losing much of its relevance, though Ive never held the position that it was a good counter argument.
Most people dont want the average mudcrab or wolf to be change. They're asking for the story to be engaging. That primarily involves quest bosses and such, not necessarily every mudcrab.4 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tanks got nerfed, AGAIN this patch. While I don’t follow healers too much, I assume they got hit with the same cp nerf tanks did.
I also think it’s hilarious that to suggest tanks and healers should have separate gear to do overland, but suggesting overpowered dps to change out their gear to make overland harder on themselves is a non-starter.
Not everyone is going to have access to the next chapter with companions, even after the following chapter comes out new players would have to know how to get them.
On top of that we have an event right now to do dailies. Yet you would not know it by how hard it is to get groups for wbs in older chapters. Splitting the zones will take more people out of the pool.
So what’s the cut off on mobs then, wasps? Tigers? What arbitrary line are we drawing here? And even without mudcrabs, imagine having to redo all the ghosts, goblins, orcs, trolls, Minotaurs... The bestiary is monumental in eso. And nearly (by your suggestion) ALL of it needs to be redone.Edited by BlueRaven on April 3, 2021 8:54PM3 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tanks took a nerf in some ways, in others, they gained. More damage mitigated when blocking and more damage output are examples of how tanks actually gained this patch. It's easier than ever to quest in overland as a tank now. Healers have always had their group utility tied to their max stat and haven't suffered to the extreme that tanks have due to their attributes not being max in an attribute that would give them more power.
Tank is a role. A role that is specific to group content. Its not something that you choose in the character selection screen and can be changed at will. Our characters are not defined by group roles. People are free do that if they wish, I have no issue with that, but the game shouldn't be balanced around if an optional change can be made. Which is what companions will do.
I suspect that we will see more people choose to play with companions as opposed to players that would opt for a vet overland. Either way, companions will negate the need to group in many cases and essentially split the base whether everyone has them or not. That's not to say that I'm not in favor of them. I'm fine with people having more choices. Especially if it doesn't effect me, and they won't. Just a vet overland wouldn't effect lower levels who chose not to utilize it.2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tanks got nerfed, AGAIN this patch. While I don’t follow healers too much, I assume they got hit with the same cp nerf tanks did.
I also think it’s hilarious that to suggest tanks and healers should have separate gear to do overland, but suggesting overpowered dps to change out their gear to make overland harder on themselves is a non-starter.
Not everyone is going to have access to the next chapter with companions, even after the following chapter comes out new players would have to know how to get them.
On top of that we have an event right now to do dailies. Yet you would not know it by how hard it is to get groups for wbs in older chapters. Splitting the zones will take more people out of the pool.
So what’s the cut off on mobs then, wasps? Tigers? What arbitrary line are we drawing here? And even without mudcrabs, imagine having to redo all the ghosts, goblins, orcs, trolls, Minotaurs... The bestiary is monumental in eso. And nearly (by your suggestion) ALL of it needs to be redone.
And did you thought that tougher =/= more hp? If it is not about more hp it is not about more DPS requirement, it actually would be the other way. If mobs would have more ways to kill us it would be easier to play tank or healer because you actually wouldn't have to pay attention that much about mechanics, tanks and healers could finally be usefull in overland as without them less skilled DD's would have harder time to get through the content. It's the current low diffuclty makes tanks and healers obsolete thus everyone play DDs. I remember when we had Vet zones back in the past many people were runing hybrid builds because runing full DD meant you would die to much.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tanks got nerfed, AGAIN this patch. While I don’t follow healers too much, I assume they got hit with the same cp nerf tanks did.
I also think it’s hilarious that to suggest tanks and healers should have separate gear to do overland, but suggesting overpowered dps to change out their gear to make overland harder on themselves is a non-starter.
Not everyone is going to have access to the next chapter with companions, even after the following chapter comes out new players would have to know how to get them.
On top of that we have an event right now to do dailies. Yet you would not know it by how hard it is to get groups for wbs in older chapters. Splitting the zones will take more people out of the pool.
So what’s the cut off on mobs then, wasps? Tigers? What arbitrary line are we drawing here? And even without mudcrabs, imagine having to redo all the ghosts, goblins, orcs, trolls, Minotaurs... The bestiary is monumental in eso. And nearly (by your suggestion) ALL of it needs to be redone.
And did you thought that tougher =/= more hp? If it is not about more hp it is not about more DPS requirement, it actually would be the other way. If mobs would have more ways to kill us it would be easier to play tank or healer because you actually wouldn't have to pay attention that much about mechanics, tanks and healers could finally be usefull in overland as without them less skilled DD's would have harder time to get through the content. It's the current low diffuclty makes tanks and healers obsolete thus everyone play DDs. I remember when we had Vet zones back in the past many people were runing hybrid builds because runing full DD meant you would die to much.
Are you suggesting to make all the zones like old school Craglorn? Where groups are required? I sure it will be just as popular as that zone was. So popular they had to nerf it, hard.
Tanks and healers are unpopular because they no longer do any significant damage. They need that damage returned so they can actually do things when not in a group setting. That will make the role popular again.
Making a zone where their already feeble damage is even less effective won’t attract more of them.Edited by BlueRaven on April 3, 2021 10:34PM2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tanks got nerfed, AGAIN this patch. While I don’t follow healers too much, I assume they got hit with the same cp nerf tanks did.
I also think it’s hilarious that to suggest tanks and healers should have separate gear to do overland, but suggesting overpowered dps to change out their gear to make overland harder on themselves is a non-starter.
Not everyone is going to have access to the next chapter with companions, even after the following chapter comes out new players would have to know how to get them.
On top of that we have an event right now to do dailies. Yet you would not know it by how hard it is to get groups for wbs in older chapters. Splitting the zones will take more people out of the pool.
So what’s the cut off on mobs then, wasps? Tigers? What arbitrary line are we drawing here? And even without mudcrabs, imagine having to redo all the ghosts, goblins, orcs, trolls, Minotaurs... The bestiary is monumental in eso. And nearly (by your suggestion) ALL of it needs to be redone.
And did you thought that tougher =/= more hp? If it is not about more hp it is not about more DPS requirement, it actually would be the other way. If mobs would have more ways to kill us it would be easier to play tank or healer because you actually wouldn't have to pay attention that much about mechanics, tanks and healers could finally be usefull in overland as without them less skilled DD's would have harder time to get through the content. It's the current low diffuclty makes tanks and healers obsolete thus everyone play DDs. I remember when we had Vet zones back in the past many people were runing hybrid builds because runing full DD meant you would die to much.
Are you suggesting to make all the zones like old school Craglorn? Where groups are required? I sure it will be just as popular as that zone was. So popular they had to nerf it, hard.
Tanks and healers are unpopular because they no longer do any significant damage. They need that damage returned so they can actually do things when not in a group setting. That will make the role popular again.
Making a zone where their already feeble damage is even less effective won’t attract more of them.
[Quoted post was removed]
You suggested that tanks would become more popular if they were needed for a zone...
“... tanks and healers could finally be usefull in overland as without them less skilled DD's would have harder time to get through the content.”
That is what craglorn was like. Content intended to be done in groups.
And that is why I asked if you was actually suggesting to make zones like that. Craglorn was changed because it was not used very much as it was intended.
Harder content is done by a fraction of the player base (like hard mode trials and arenas). If harder content is introduced most people will do everything they can to avoid it. If they can’t avoid it (I.e. “We need to teach new players how to play properly “ A common sentiment brought up in this thread.) They will find a game they actually like to play (“Wildstar” read up on why that game failed.)
It is a jokey meme, but the the phrase “Housing is the real endgame” is around because housing is more popular then the “hard mode” crowd. And it brings in way more money too.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 4, 2021 3:38PM7 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭In a hypothetical “veteran” instance of a zone the enemies would have to go through a rework and changes - for this separate instance exclusively. Because buffing the stats wouldn’t be enough to actually engage the players.
——————————————————
If we only prioritized what the mass majority wanted or played - then Dungeons, Arenas, & Trials would not be a thing.
——————————————————
I do think what Mayreal means (correct me if I’m wrong) is that mobs with more tools & abilities and greater stats would encourage players to work together - as opposed to forced grouping like Old Craglorn.
While solo play would still be viable, friends might have more reason to play together in Overland.
At least that’s my take away.Edited by Iccotak on April 4, 2021 3:43AM0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In a hypothetical “veteran” instance of a zone the enemies would have to go through a rework and changes - for this separate instance exclusively. Because buffing the stats wouldn’t be enough to actually engage the players.
——————————————————
If we only prioritized what the mass majority wanted or played - then Dungeons, Arenas, & Trials would not be a thing.
——————————————————
I do think what Mayreal means (correct me if I’m wrong) is that mobs with more tools & abilities and greater stats would encourage players to work together - as opposed to forced grouping like Old Craglorn.
While solo play would still be viable, friends might have more reason to play together in Overland.
At least that’s my take away.
Yes. And there is what, hundreds of different mobs now? And for each new content to come they would have to do two passes (at least) for each mob. Rebalancing boss fights in delves and public dungeons for all the existing zones. It's not going to happen.
•••
"If we only prioritized what the mass majority wanted or played - then Dungeons, Arenas, & Trials would not be a thing." 100% correct. Vet players should be happy they get something in nearly every dlc. PvP players hardly get anything, and casuals get something as content every six months. Let casuals have their fun. Vet players are already getting plenty of content.
•••
Players are either playing solo or together. Read up on the history of Murkmire, the zone was already being assembled early in ESO's development. Here is a video from 2014;
https://youtu.be/OGANBTnrSHM
It was going to be another zone similar to Craglorn. It got shelved because of the poor reception Craglorn got, a zone that can be described as "While solo play would still be viable, friends might have more reason to play together in Overland." Murkmire was eventually released four years later after they radically reworked the difficulty of the zone.
As an aside, I have tried doing Craglorn with friends. It is a pain. The rest of us have to wait because someone is late. One person needs to stop because of their dog. Another because they got a call. One needs to stop early to go get something to eat. One person wants to rush through the quests. Another likes to hear the voice acting and ask all of the lore questions.
Doing overland as a group is not enjoyable, because everyone plays the game a bit differently.
EDIT: Overland is best played as a "pick up and go, then stop on a dime" type of activity. Waiting to get the right other people to do it, and have everyone on the same page, is not enjoyable.
Edited by BlueRaven on April 4, 2021 4:33AM5 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭I find issue with 2 points in opposition to the idea of an optional vet overland.
1. That it will be or should be on par with old Crag. There is no reason it should be an all or nothing. Or even that it should be mandatory. There is plenty of room for a more reasoned approach that will not force group play, but still offer challenge.
2. "Show players the proper way to play" I think it is irrefutable that the game does a poor job of explaining its mechanics to the player. Whether from pushing too many concepts at once, going for a large "WOW factor" to set the hook or a combo of the two. The point stands, the game does not explain its internal concepts well and actively hampers the reinforcement of those concepts.
Player set standards - good for guild/group. Bad for game.
Game not showing its own internal tools, leaving large parts of the population in ignorance or seeking 3rd party knowledge....Bad.1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As an aside, I have tried doing Craglorn with friends. It is a pain. The rest of us have to wait because someone is late. One person needs to stop because of their dog. Another because they got a call. One needs to stop early to go get something to eat. One person wants to rush through the quests. Another likes to hear the voice acting and ask all of the lore questions.
Doing overland as a group is not enjoyable, because everyone plays the game a bit differently.
EDIT: Overland is best played as a "pick up and go, then stop on a dime" type of activity. Waiting to get the right other people to do it, and have everyone on the same page, is not enjoyable.
Again, no one has advocated for the return of Old Craglorn (or even new Craglorn)
We generally are all in agreement that old Craglorn was not fun and are not asking for something that forces a group.
What people have said us they’d like to be able to enjoy Overland and/or have fun with a friend.
Many of us would also like to be able to feel engaged in questing Without having to get the right group of people together for something as intense as a Vet Dungeon or Trial.
We’d like to enjoy the questing experience but currently largely don’t because the gameplay is not engaging for that content.
———————————————————"If we only prioritized what the mass majority wanted or played - then Dungeons, Arenas, & Trials would not be a thing."
100% correct. Vet players should be happy they get something in nearly every dlc. PvP players hardly get anything, and casuals get something as content every six months.
Let casuals have their fun. Vet players are already getting plenty of content.
Not really like the mindset ofJust be happy you got anything and shut up
No, we don’t have to be happy or satisfied with the current experience of the majority of the content because there’s hardcore endgame in a corner of the game.
Endgame is great and is fine where it is. And like I have said before there has to be a better middle ground between bare minimum starter zone easy & trial endgame.
———————————————————
Also the “what-abou-ism”. What about PvP?
I’ve advocated that PvP should be getting more battlegrounds within Chapters and Zone DLCs.
However, this thread isn’t about PvP. This is about making Overland more fun for more people.0
This discussion has been closed.