OMG, another one of these posts. What's happening here is the vet trials and vet dungeon players are all gold geared out and now want the base game to cater to them. Having control of all the vet gameplay is not enough for them. If ZOS gives them what they want half the player base would quit and they could care less about that. These people that make these posts are selfish beyond belief.

Yes there is no meaning full encounter mechanics in ESO, I rather not fight enemies at this point as they are just tedious not fun. I agree with your points, great post.

TheFibrewire wrote: »

Yes there is no meaning full encounter mechanics in ESO, I rather not fight enemies at this point as they are just tedious not fun. I agree with your points, great post.

Run past till they reach their agroresetrange and they'll wobble back. When at quest marker, wall fo elements 3/4 times and its done. Maybe a 'quest npc' Wall and 3 spammable's.

I just did the prelude quest for the Blackwood thing. The end fight in that questline... i dropped my destro ult and just waited. Jobs a goodn. That is just sad.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Alurria wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Alurria wrote: »

Some people are asking for instances and some are not see the post above me. It's as I said people can not agree on what they want if you want it instanced great I hope you get it, but do not change the game play for me because I like overland content and difficulty. If you can't respect my opinion or how I play don't answer my post.

Alurria, this has already been addressed time and time again.
Even recently by me.

No one advocating for changes wants to enforce their preference on the whole player base.

You keep pointing at others to be saying these things but you can look through the thread yourself to see that no one has advocated to taking away your current Overland experience.

Sure we are not in 100% agreement or assurance how this “Veteran Instance” would work but like I said before;

Let’s not paint this issue like it’s a chaotic mess, people have been clear and articulate on their positions.

———————————————————

Now there’s that poll which isn’t helping because it’s starting the whole conversation all over again and some of us have to explain again that the problem isn’t difficulty so much as a lack of engagement.

Fighting Overland mobs encounters isn’t fun for the reasons listed in the OP and throughout the the thread.

And the Main Story encounters are very lackluster.

And Self Nerf has not helped. We’ve tried it and it doesn’t make the fights fun - Just longer and tedious.

Thank you for the clarification, it was apparent you and one other poster were asking for that but some others were not, because of the comments made about teaching players mechanics of the game. I see nothing wrong in wanting a harder instance mode for those who want it.

There are major problems with that;

This costs development and upkeep money.
Remember the people asking for “harder content” are not asking for npcs to have more hp and hit harder. They want them to have more abilities. So every mob, from mudcrabs to boss fights needs to be redone and rebalanced. Every encounter and npc interaction as well. So it’s not like zos can just turn a dial.

Splitting up players in already underpopulated zones means less people to group up with to fight such things as wb’s or geysers.

What exactly is the difficulty level aimed to be for? 160 cp? 300? 1000?

Tanks and healers have a hard enough time clearing content as it is. So the fraction of vet players that will use this mode seems small.

If the difficulty level is still too easy for some players, is a third difficulty level justified? A fourth?

Tanks and healers got a nice upgrade in U29 as far as overland goes. The extra SD/WD is nice and really only needs a gear/ability change to perform well in overland.

With companions coming out soon the "Spliiting the player base" argument is losing much of its relevance, though Ive never held the position that it was a good counter argument.

Most people dont want the average mudcrab or wolf to be change. They're asking for the story to be engaging. That primarily involves quest bosses and such, not necessarily every mudcrab.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Tanks got nerfed, AGAIN this patch. While I don’t follow healers too much, I assume they got hit with the same cp nerf tanks did.
I also think it’s hilarious that to suggest tanks and healers should have separate gear to do overland, but suggesting overpowered dps to change out their gear to make overland harder on themselves is a non-starter.

Not everyone is going to have access to the next chapter with companions, even after the following chapter comes out new players would have to know how to get them.
On top of that we have an event right now to do dailies. Yet you would not know it by how hard it is to get groups for wbs in older chapters. Splitting the zones will take more people out of the pool.

So what’s the cut off on mobs then, wasps? Tigers? What arbitrary line are we drawing here? And even without mudcrabs, imagine having to redo all the ghosts, goblins, orcs, trolls, Minotaurs... The bestiary is monumental in eso. And nearly (by your suggestion) ALL of it needs to be redone.

And did you thought that tougher =/= more hp? If it is not about more hp it is not about more DPS requirement, it actually would be the other way. If mobs would have more ways to kill us it would be easier to play tank or healer because you actually wouldn't have to pay attention that much about mechanics, tanks and healers could finally be usefull in overland as without them less skilled DD's would have harder time to get through the content. It's the current low diffuclty makes tanks and healers obsolete thus everyone play DDs. I remember when we had Vet zones back in the past many people were runing hybrid builds because runing full DD meant you would die to much.

Mayrael wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Tanks got nerfed, AGAIN this patch. While I don’t follow healers too much, I assume they got hit with the same cp nerf tanks did.
I also think it’s hilarious that to suggest tanks and healers should have separate gear to do overland, but suggesting overpowered dps to change out their gear to make overland harder on themselves is a non-starter.

Not everyone is going to have access to the next chapter with companions, even after the following chapter comes out new players would have to know how to get them.
On top of that we have an event right now to do dailies. Yet you would not know it by how hard it is to get groups for wbs in older chapters. Splitting the zones will take more people out of the pool.

So what’s the cut off on mobs then, wasps? Tigers? What arbitrary line are we drawing here? And even without mudcrabs, imagine having to redo all the ghosts, goblins, orcs, trolls, Minotaurs... The bestiary is monumental in eso. And nearly (by your suggestion) ALL of it needs to be redone.

And did you thought that tougher =/= more hp? If it is not about more hp it is not about more DPS requirement, it actually would be the other way. If mobs would have more ways to kill us it would be easier to play tank or healer because you actually wouldn't have to pay attention that much about mechanics, tanks and healers could finally be usefull in overland as without them less skilled DD's would have harder time to get through the content. It's the current low diffuclty makes tanks and healers obsolete thus everyone play DDs. I remember when we had Vet zones back in the past many people were runing hybrid builds because runing full DD meant you would die to much.

Are you suggesting to make all the zones like old school Craglorn? Where groups are required? I sure it will be just as popular as that zone was. So popular they had to nerf it, hard.

Tanks and healers are unpopular because they no longer do any significant damage. They need that damage returned so they can actually do things when not in a group setting. That will make the role popular again.
Making a zone where their already feeble damage is even less effective won’t attract more of them.

[Quoted post was removed]

You suggested that tanks would become more popular if they were needed for a zone...

“... tanks and healers could finally be usefull in overland as without them less skilled DD's would have harder time to get through the content.”

That is what craglorn was like. Content intended to be done in groups.

And that is why I asked if you was actually suggesting to make zones like that. Craglorn was changed because it was not used very much as it was intended.

Harder content is done by a fraction of the player base (like hard mode trials and arenas). If harder content is introduced most people will do everything they can to avoid it. If they can’t avoid it (I.e. “We need to teach new players how to play properly “ A common sentiment brought up in this thread.) They will find a game they actually like to play (“Wildstar” read up on why that game failed.)

It is a jokey meme, but the the phrase “Housing is the real endgame” is around because housing is more popular then the “hard mode” crowd. And it brings in way more money too.

Iccotak wrote: »

In a hypothetical “veteran” instance of a zone the enemies would have to go through a rework and changes - for this separate instance exclusively. Because buffing the stats wouldn’t be enough to actually engage the players.
——————————————————
If we only prioritized what the mass majority wanted or played - then Dungeons, Arenas, & Trials would not be a thing.
——————————————————
I do think what Mayreal means (correct me if I’m wrong) is that mobs with more tools & abilities and greater stats would encourage players to work together - as opposed to forced grouping like Old Craglorn.

While solo play would still be viable, friends might have more reason to play together in Overland.

At least that’s my take away.

Yes. And there is what, hundreds of different mobs now? And for each new content to come they would have to do two passes (at least) for each mob. Rebalancing boss fights in delves and public dungeons for all the existing zones. It's not going to happen.

•••

"If we only prioritized what the mass majority wanted or played - then Dungeons, Arenas, & Trials would not be a thing." 100% correct. Vet players should be happy they get something in nearly every dlc. PvP players hardly get anything, and casuals get something as content every six months. Let casuals have their fun. Vet players are already getting plenty of content.

•••

Players are either playing solo or together. Read up on the history of Murkmire, the zone was already being assembled early in ESO's development. Here is a video from 2014;

https://youtu.be/OGANBTnrSHM

It was going to be another zone similar to Craglorn. It got shelved because of the poor reception Craglorn got, a zone that can be described as "While solo play would still be viable, friends might have more reason to play together in Overland." Murkmire was eventually released four years later after they radically reworked the difficulty of the zone.

As an aside, I have tried doing Craglorn with friends. It is a pain. The rest of us have to wait because someone is late. One person needs to stop because of their dog. Another because they got a call. One needs to stop early to go get something to eat. One person wants to rush through the quests. Another likes to hear the voice acting and ask all of the lore questions.
Doing overland as a group is not enjoyable, because everyone plays the game a bit differently.

EDIT: Overland is best played as a "pick up and go, then stop on a dime" type of activity. Waiting to get the right other people to do it, and have everyone on the same page, is not enjoyable.