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The real problem with combat in Overland
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jtm1018✭✭✭✭✭Just put veteran mode on overland already.
Also put a hardmode on world bosses, delves, public dungeons. Just give us extra gold and scraps on hardmode.5 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well I am happy that this post made me realize that I can further enhance my RolePlaying during overland content with making Potions that are harmful to me, and poisons that are beneficial to the mobs or bosses.
0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
Old Craglorn has been used ad nauseam as a counter argument against any sort of veteran instance or adjustments to Overland gameplay.
I think many people here have pointed out why it’s a flawed argument at this point.
1. Old Craglorn had numerous problems besides it being hard and that using it as an example of a “veteran zone” is not accurate.craglorn was the product of a VERY, VERY different version of ESO. Full stop. It is in no way applicable to the current experience that max / high level players generally have and for what incentives exist today for desiring to complete overland content in the first place.
2. What people have proposed is almost nothing like Old Craglorn, as their ideas still hav a focus on solo play - No one is asking for forced grouping like Craglorn had.
3. There has to be a better compromise between Old Craglorn and what we have now.Yeah, we have to ask “do we really want all zones to be as easy as a bleakrock?”
I get that people do not want Old Craglorn, but there has to be a better compromise...
Because the way it’s currently set up just isn’t engaging for the majority of the experience.
And again not all of us are saying we want everything to be as hard as an endgame dungeon or trial - we just want to be able to enjoy our solo questing and story experiences.it’s great for some new players just getting into the game...we’ve said this. The problem is that it’s the majority of the content and it’s appeal is mostly to new people.
This is why people have proposed a separate instance with higher difficulty and some adjustments to mechanics.
And the self nerf argument has been addressed again and again and again and again.3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »We already had veteran overland. It didn't work. They got rid of it with One Tamriel. They are not going to bring back something that previously failed.
Old Craglorn has been used ad nauseam as a counter argument against any sort of veteran instance or adjustments to Overland gameplay.
Where did I say anything about old Craglorn? I am talking about Veteran overland.
Before One Tamriel every faction could only play their own zones, and only with others in their faction. Once those zones were completed you got a quest called Cadwell's Silver. (This still exists but not as a required path for leveling any more.)
Cadwell's Silver sent you to one of the other faction's zones, but they weren't the same ones that faction started in. They were veteran level, and the difficulty was much higher. After those you then got Cadwell's Gold for the last zones, which was harder still.
It was a nightmare. I just remember dying all the time to overland mobs while trying to quest and enjoy the story. I only did it once.
It was after that they introduced old Craglorn, and that is when I quit for a few years. I only came back after they fixed that mess with One Tamriel.
So yes we once had veteran overland and it was removed for a reason.
PCNA8 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »We already had veteran overland. It didn't work. They got rid of it with One Tamriel. They are not going to bring back something that previously failed.
Old Craglorn has been used ad nauseam as a counter argument against any sort of veteran instance or adjustments to Overland gameplay.
Where did I say anything about old Craglorn? I am talking about Veteran overland.
Before One Tamriel every faction could only play their own zones, and only with others in their faction. Once those zones were completed you got a quest called Cadwell's Silver. (This still exists but not as a required path for leveling any more.)
Cadwell's Silver sent you to one of the other faction's zones, but they weren't the same ones that faction started in. They were veteran level, and the difficulty was much higher. After those you then got Cadwell's Gold for the last zones, which was harder still.
It was a nightmare. I just remember dying all the time to overland mobs while trying to quest and enjoy the story. I only did it once.
It was after that they introduced old Craglorn, and that is when I quit for a few years. I only came back after they fixed that mess with One Tamriel.
So yes we once had veteran overland and it was removed for a reason.
Even in the case of Pre-One Tamriel was a cluster of different problems like Old Veteran Rank system. Which was very flawed and skewed as the devs themselves said which is why it was done away and replaced with CP.
I think there is a misconception about what the old system was like.
Original vet zones were a mess, not because they spit the player base into 2-3 groups, because they actually got split into 9 different groups.
Like you said;
Before OT, you could only play with people in the same faction. The Faction you chose determined the level of all the zones and it was different for each side. Different alliances had different zones at different difficulties.
So for if you chose EP then their zones were 1-50, and Veteran rank order went from DC to AD.
Meanwhile AD Veteran ranks went from EP to DC
DC Veteran Ranks went from AD to EP
(That may not be the entirely correct order but you get the point)
The Old Veteran zones failed for more reasons than just being hard.
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try making an overland that has engaging gameplay because something they tried in the past failed for very different reasons.Edited by Iccotak on March 30, 2021 5:51AM4 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Old Veteran zones failed for more reasons than just being hard.
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try making an overland that has engaging gameplay because something they tried in the past failed for very different reasons.
Overland is engaging enough just how it is for the majority of players. If you want a challenge do the end game content that was developed for that reason.PCNA9 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The Old Veteran zones failed for more reasons than just being hard.
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try making an overland that has engaging gameplay because something they tried in the past failed for very different reasons.
Overland is engaging enough just how it is for the majority of players. If you want a challenge do the end game content that was developed for that reason.
Except it isn’t. People have stated the reasons as to why it is not.
People have already explained that their desire for engaging overland and for the main story/questing experience does not mean they are asking for more group content like dungeons and trials.
We are generally happy with the state of Endgame, it’s fun.
We don’t enjoy the rest of the majority of the content- The general questing experience - For the various reasons I do not have to say again because you can read yourself on this very thread.
You keep on saying it’s fine and people keep on telling you that it’s not and they state the reasons why - only for you to say it’s fine again.
There cannot be a conversation if you are not willing to listen
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Edited for grammar and spellingEdited by Iccotak on March 30, 2021 9:06AM8 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The Old Veteran zones failed for more reasons than just being hard.
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try making an overland that has engaging gameplay because something they tried in the past failed for very different reasons.
Overland is engaging enough just how it is for the majority of players. If you want a challenge do the end game content that was developed for that reason.
Except it isn’t. People have stated the reasons as to why it is not.
People have already explained that their desire for engaging overland and for the main story/questing experience does not mean they are asking for more group content like dungeons and trials.
We are generally happy with the state of Endgame, it’s fun.
We don’t enjoy the rest of the majority of the content- The general questing experience - For the various reasons I do not have to say again because you can read yourself on this very thread.
You keep on saying it’s fine and people keep on telling you that it’s not and they state the reasons why - only for you to say it’s fine again.
There cannot be a conversation if you are not willing to listen
——————————————————
Edited for grammar and spelling
If you talk to the MMORPG community they all agree that ESO has the best questing in the mmorpg realm.
They on the other hand all say how the combat sucks, feels floaty and they hate animation canceling.
Could it be that some people are just dissatisfied with the combat non flashy feeling and how they just feel floaty and unimpactful ?
Saying ESO has poor a questing experience is like saying WOW has bad raiding.Edited by WiseSky on March 30, 2021 10:16AM4 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The Old Veteran zones failed for more reasons than just being hard.
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try making an overland that has engaging gameplay because something they tried in the past failed for very different reasons.
Overland is engaging enough just how it is for the majority of players. If you want a challenge do the end game content that was developed for that reason.
Except it isn’t. People have stated the reasons as to why it is not.
People have already explained that their desire for engaging overland and for the main story/questing experience does not mean they are asking for more group content like dungeons and trials.
We are generally happy with the state of Endgame, it’s fun.
We don’t enjoy the rest of the majority of the content- The general questing experience - For the various reasons I do not have to say again because you can read yourself on this very thread.
You keep on saying it’s fine and people keep on telling you that it’s not and they state the reasons why - only for you to say it’s fine again.
There cannot be a conversation if you are not willing to listen
——————————————————
Edited for grammar and spelling
If you talk to the MMORPG community they all agree that ESO has the best questing in the mmorpg realm.
They on the other hand all say how the combat sucks, feels floaty and they hate animation canceling.
Could it be that some people are just dissatisfied with the combat non flashy feeling and how they just feel floaty and unimpactful ?
Saying ESO has poor a questing experience is like saying WOW has bad raiding.
Have you read what others here on this thread have said?
Because this counterpoint feels very disconnected from what people have actually said.
Nowhere is anyone criticizing a “lack of flashy animation”.
No one is discussing problems with ESO‘s combat system, as many of us enjoy instances of combat in the game - The issue is specifically with overland gameplay and the gameplay experience of the main quest.
What I have said specifically is that the general Overland populace are incredibly weak and incapable - and that once you reach about level 10 all fights in Overland feel about the same.
We generally agree that the writing is good however we think the writing is undermined when their big bad villain is a mediocre encounter with poor mechanics that don’t engage us.
Which is why people have proposed a separate harder instance.
What many of us have pointed out is that gameplay and story should go hand-in-hand, and we feel that engaging gameplay and engaging story have been made mutually exclusive.
That has been a consistent complaint, not only in this thread but throughout many other threads that have brought up this topic.
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Edited for Grammar & SpellingEdited by Iccotak on March 30, 2021 2:27PM5 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The Old Veteran zones failed for more reasons than just being hard.
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try making an overland that has engaging gameplay because something they tried in the past failed for very different reasons.
Overland is engaging enough just how it is for the majority of players. If you want a challenge do the end game content that was developed for that reason.
Except it isn’t. People have stated the reasons as to why it is not.
People have already explained that their desire for engaging overland and for the main story/questing experience does not mean they are asking for more group content like dungeons and trials.
We are generally happy with the state of Endgame, it’s fun.
We don’t enjoy the rest of the majority of the content- The general questing experience - For the various reasons I do not have to say again because you can read yourself on this very thread.
You keep on saying it’s fine and people keep on telling you that it’s not and they state the reasons why - only for you to say it’s fine again.
There cannot be a conversation if you are not willing to listen
——————————————————
Edited for grammar and spelling
If you talk to the MMORPG community they all agree that ESO has the best questing in the mmorpg realm.
They on the other hand all say how the combat sucks, feels floaty and they hate animation canceling.
Could it be that some people are just dissatisfied with the combat non flashy feeling and how they just feel floaty and unimpactful ?
Saying ESO has poor a questing experience is like saying WOW has bad raiding.
Have you read what others here on this thread have said?
Because this counterpoint feels very disconnected from my people have actually said.
Nowhere is anyone criticizing a “lack of flashy animation”.
No one is discussing problems with ESO‘s combat system, as many of us enjoy instances of combat in the game - The issue is specifically with overland gameplay and the gameplay experience of the main quest.
What I have said specifically is that the general Overland populace are incredibly weak and incapable - and that once you reach about level 10 all fights in Overland feel about the same.
We generally agree that the writing is good however we think the writing is undermined when their big bad villain is a mediocre encounter with poor mechanics that don’t engage us.
Which is why people have proposed a separate harder instance.
What many of us have pointed out is that gameplay and story should go hand-in-hand, and we feel that engaging gameplay and engaging story have been made mutually exclusive.
That has been a consistent complaint, not only in this thread but throughout many other threads that have brought up this topic.
What I am saying is maybe looking from outside, people who played eso would say the whole feeling of combat sucks.
What if the bigger picture is that some players are not satisfied at all of the floating combat in eso.
I remember playing Skyrim with an 1 hit kill OP sorc, every mob and boss was trivial, but the whole fun aspect was aiming my 1 m ice crystal at the mobs.
I killed everything in 1 hit and it felt good.5 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7184930
New to game. Has issues with overland and wants advice on possibly changing classes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/566247/new-player-question
Does not quite understand how the skill bar system works.
•••
And these are just the people who managed to figure out how to post on these forums.
Doing things in overland combat is not easy for new players as it is.
Adding alternate vet levels cost time and money. And zos is not a company where they throw money around.
7 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And overland not engaging players, by having no situations that require people to branch out and learn, by having content that can be cleared with so little effort, players don't learn to learn. If you face challenges you need to try different things, that's how players learn things. How many players enter 4 man dungeons for the first time clueless on what a stun is, or how to use food, because overland never encouraged them to try?
"inexpericenced on mechanics and i simply do not know the game well enough" is a direct reason one of them said for their question. Overland does nothing to prepare people, if people are engaged they learn, an npc mage who spends 20s of a 21s fight picking their nose doesn't teach anything.6 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And overland not engaging players, by having no situations that require people to branch out and learn, by having content that can be cleared with so little effort, players don't learn to learn. If you face challenges you need to try different things, that's how players learn things. How many players enter 4 man dungeons for the first time clueless on what a stun is, or how to use food, because overland never encouraged them to try?
"inexpericenced on mechanics and i simply do not know the game well enough" is a direct reason one of them said for their question. Overland does nothing to prepare people, if people are engaged they learn, an npc mage who spends 20s of a 21s fight picking their nose doesn't teach anything.
“Not knowing the game well enough” is exactly the reason why overland is difficult for new players, but easier for people with experience. How is making overland more difficult in any way more helpful?
Vet players have experience, they have content specifically made for players with experience, do that.4 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Do you not think that if this was a viable use of Zos’ time and resources they would have done this by now?
They can see just how many players bother with ‘harder’ stuff - as was pointed out upthread, the completion rate for dungeons on console is something like 0.5%.
No company is going to waste time & money on something for that small number of players.
New servers just for vet instances? Never going to happen. We need new servers just for the game as it is, let alone for an instance that few will use.
Some sort of toggle? Again this would take time & money. And no-one has clearly shown how precisely this would work.
Perhaps it might be better to address the ridiculous power creep and narrow focus on max dps?
I appreciate your frustration but I doubt it is going to change.6 -
Parasaurolophus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Do you understand that this is very bad?Hallothiel wrote: »Do you not think that if this was a viable use of Zos’ time and resources they would have done this by now? They can see just how many players bother with ‘harder’ stuff - as was pointed out upthread, the completion rate for dungeons on console is something like 0.5%.
PC/EU1 -
Smitch_59✭✭✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »
Do you understand that this is very bad?Hallothiel wrote: »Do you not think that if this was a viable use of Zos’ time and resources they would have done this by now? They can see just how many players bother with ‘harder’ stuff - as was pointed out upthread, the completion rate for dungeons on console is something like 0.5%.
Bad for whom?By Azura, by Azura, by Azura!0 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »
Do you understand that this is very bad?Hallothiel wrote: »Do you not think that if this was a viable use of Zos’ time and resources they would have done this by now? They can see just how many players bother with ‘harder’ stuff - as was pointed out upthread, the completion rate for dungeons on console is something like 0.5%.
Very bad how?
For the game? Possibly. But it suggests that despite what some on here think, most players are fine with the level of overland, and that it is only a significantly small number of players that want it all to be harder.6 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭And overland not engaging players, by having no situations that require people to branch out and learn, by having content that can be cleared with so little effort, players don't learn to learn. If you face challenges you need to try different things, that's how players learn things. How many players enter 4 man dungeons for the first time clueless on what a stun is, or how to use food, because overland never encouraged them to try?
"inexpericenced on mechanics and i simply do not know the game well enough" is a direct reason one of them said for their question. Overland does nothing to prepare people, if people are engaged they learn, an npc mage who spends 20s of a 21s fight picking their nose doesn't teach anything.
“Not knowing the game well enough” is exactly the reason why overland is difficult for new players, but easier for people with experience. How is making overland more difficult in any way more helpful?
Vet players have experience, they have content specifically made for players with experience, do that.
Thank you! What happens when this content is released and the very same vet players gain the experience to make it once again easy?
You can not undo what you learned. Which means EVERYTIME they learn the new mechanics implemented the challenge is no longer there.
Which puts us right back here every damn couple of months. Who else wants the combat overhauled as well? I'd love if they improved upon the floaty animations. If it's beneficial for one small group, everyone should get the tweaks they want, right?There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway2 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hallothiel wrote: »Do you not think that if this was a viable use of Zos’ time and resources they would have done this by now?
They can see just how many players bother with ‘harder’ stuff - as was pointed out upthread, the completion rate for dungeons on console is something like 0.5%.
No company is going to waste time & money on something for that small number of players.
New servers just for vet instances? Never going to happen. We need new servers just for the game as it is, let alone for an instance that few will use.
Some sort of toggle? Again this would take time & money. And no-one has clearly shown how precisely this would work.
Perhaps it might be better to address the ridiculous power creep and narrow focus on max dps?
I appreciate your frustration but I doubt it is going to change.
Mindboggling how they keep avoiding all the real issues that plagues this request, mainly from a business perspective first and foremost and who would benefit from this endeavor, in particular Zos.
Imagine Zos sitting on a pile of data that shows this is something that will benefit them, yet year after year they avoid doing so? Players complaining about game being too easy? Their response? They introduce companions that will make it even easier lol. I mean they must have some idea what they are doing, no?Edited by Sevn on March 30, 2021 3:08PMThere is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The Old Veteran zones failed for more reasons than just being hard.
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try making an overland that has engaging gameplay because something they tried in the past failed for very different reasons.
Overland is engaging enough just how it is for the majority of players. If you want a challenge do the end game content that was developed for that reason.
Except it isn’t. People have stated the reasons as to why it is not.
People have already explained that their desire for engaging overland and for the main story/questing experience does not mean they are asking for more group content like dungeons and trials.
We are generally happy with the state of Endgame, it’s fun.
We don’t enjoy the rest of the majority of the content- The general questing experience - For the various reasons I do not have to say again because you can read yourself on this very thread.
You keep on saying it’s fine and people keep on telling you that it’s not and they state the reasons why - only for you to say it’s fine again.
There cannot be a conversation if you are not willing to listen
——————————————————
Edited for grammar and spelling
If you talk to the MMORPG community they all agree that ESO has the best questing in the mmorpg realm.
They on the other hand all say how the combat sucks, feels floaty and they hate animation canceling.
Could it be that some people are just dissatisfied with the combat non flashy feeling and how they just feel floaty and unimpactful ?
Saying ESO has poor a questing experience is like saying WOW has bad raiding.
Have you read what others here on this thread have said?
Because this counterpoint feels very disconnected from my people have actually said.
Nowhere is anyone criticizing a “lack of flashy animation”.
No one is discussing problems with ESO‘s combat system, as many of us enjoy instances of combat in the game - The issue is specifically with overland gameplay and the gameplay experience of the main quest.
What I have said specifically is that the general Overland populace are incredibly weak and incapable - and that once you reach about level 10 all fights in Overland feel about the same.
We generally agree that the writing is good however we think the writing is undermined when their big bad villain is a mediocre encounter with poor mechanics that don’t engage us.
Which is why people have proposed a separate harder instance.
What many of us have pointed out is that gameplay and story should go hand-in-hand, and we feel that engaging gameplay and engaging story have been made mutually exclusive.
That has been a consistent complaint, not only in this thread but throughout many other threads that have brought up this topic.
What I am saying is maybe looking from outside, people who played eso would say the whole feeling of combat sucks.
What if the bigger picture is that some players are not satisfied at all of the floating combat in eso.
That may be an aspect of it for some people, but I don’t think it is accurate to say it is the root issue or the overall issue, and is also reductive.
It conflates “floaty animation” with slow & incapable enemies. These are not the same issues
It doesn’t account for people who still enjoy Dungeons & Trials but don’t bother doing the Overland or Story anymore.And overland not engaging players, by having no situations that require people to branch out and learn, by having content that can be cleared with so little effort, players don't learn to learn. If you face challenges you need to try different things, that's how players learn things. How many players enter 4 man dungeons for the first time clueless on what a stun is, or how to use food, because overland never encouraged them to try?
"inexpericenced on mechanics and i simply do not know the game well enough" is a direct reason one of them said for their question. Overland does nothing to prepare people, if people are engaged they learn, an npc mage who spends 20s of a 21s fight picking their nose doesn't teach anything.
“Not knowing the game well enough” is exactly the reason why overland is difficult for new players, but easier for people with experience. How is making overland more difficult in any way more helpful?
Vet players have experience, they have content specifically made for players with experience, do that.
Like I said previously.So it’s great for some new players just getting into the game...we’ve said this. The problem is that it’s the majority of the content and it’s appeal is mostly to new people.
This is why people have proposed a separate instance with higher difficulty and some adjustments to mechanics.
And emphasis on Some new players - not all new players. As plenty have left due to Overland being too stale.
There’s this idea that keeps being pushed that the story content should ONLY be designed for the lowest common denominator in mind.
Just because everyone can do it, no matter their level or Skill, doesn’t mean everyone enjoys it.
No one is asking that story becomes exclusive to elites- just for the option to give story content engaging gameplay.
what someone else saidJust because some people find the combat engaging doesn't mean the rest of the community does.
The solution is to give players more challenging options. Would be nice for the enemies to be a little more threatening than the wet noodles they are. My bf and I come back to this game on and off and we're always reluctant due to how stupid easy the overworld is. It gets really frustrating when we want to have a good time going through the different zones and adventuring, but when the adventure involves deleting majority of enemies in 2 hits or killing the sUpEr BaD bOSs before they can even finish their dialogue, can't say it's very appealing. When the majority of your content is so easy even new players complain about how easy it is, it's a problem.1 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭And overland not engaging players, by having no situations that require people to branch out and learn, by having content that can be cleared with so little effort, players don't learn to learn. If you face challenges you need to try different things, that's how players learn things. How many players enter 4 man dungeons for the first time clueless on what a stun is, or how to use food, because overland never encouraged them to try?
"inexpericenced on mechanics and i simply do not know the game well enough" is a direct reason one of them said for their question. Overland does nothing to prepare people, if people are engaged they learn, an npc mage who spends 20s of a 21s fight picking their nose doesn't teach anything.
“Not knowing the game well enough” is exactly the reason why overland is difficult for new players, but easier for people with experience. How is making overland more difficult in any way more helpful?
Vet players have experience, they have content specifically made for players with experience, do that.
That just highlights the devs failure to properly introduce mechanics / have a sufficient tutorial for new players. The problem is kinda glaring on the elswyr tutorial. Sure it shows you how yo heavy attack, block, interrupt. but does nothing to explain how food buffs are important, using light,hvys with class and weapon skills. Then to top if all off, you are fighting a dragon. Probably blows all previous lessons out the window because "Cool, I'm fighting a dragon!"
Engaging the player with mechanics that require a bit of skill and growing the need to use those skills leads to ....better players.3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People have already explained that their desire for engaging overland and for the main story/questing experience does not mean they are asking for more group content like dungeons and trials.
We are generally happy with the state of Endgame, it’s fun.
We don’t enjoy the rest of the majority of the content- The general questing experience - For the various reasons I do not have to say again because you can read yourself on this very thread.
You keep on saying it’s fine and people keep on telling you that it’s not and they state the reasons why - only for you to say it’s fine again.
There cannot be a conversation if you are not willing to listen.
Some players may agree with you that overland is not hard enough or engaging, but they are far from the majority.
You say you are happy with end game, which is there to give a challenge to end game players, but that isn't enough. You want everything to be challenging, completely ignoring the fact that this would hurt the causal community, which makes up the majority of the player base. There needs to be something for everyone, and that something is overland and the main story.
And in a conversation both sides have to be willing to listen.PCNA9 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭Well, I try to not die at all - a hero isn't a hero if he/she has died over and over and over again in my books. When I hear that people die several times per hour, where is the hero-part in that?
It's not about not dying but about keep going despite the difficulties. You want to go this way? Ok. There is no courage without fear, there is no respect when there is no difficulty, there is no hero when there is no risk of dying.
This.
The story loses all value when you completely demolish everything in your path with zero effort. It's pretty much a universal truth accepted by humans across time. Even going back thousands of years the quintessential archetype of the hero that has lasted millenia consists of various difficulties being set in their way, setbacks, and struggling to overcome them which makes reaching the final conclusion fulfilling.
Humans are very aware that anything worth having is worth struggling for which is how you reach the end content and fulfilled. You'll meet a lot of people in life that don't grasp this and will go through life doing the bare minimum to get by. Never trying to learn something new or accepting new responsibilities. Being mediocre to poor at their job for decades. You'll notice these people also tend to be miserable and complain a lot about everything.5 -
Rescorla_ESO✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
it did work it was just too hard for most players and not worth the time and effort. Prior to One Tamriel it was also forced on the player if they wanted to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold. The difference now is it would be optional for those players who want to be challenged and want an extra reward for completing the challenge.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
it did work it was just too hard for most players and not worth the time and effort. Prior to One Tamriel it was also forced on the player if they wanted to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold. The difference now is it would be optional for those players who want to be challenged and want an extra reward for completing the challenge.
By your own words "it was just too hard for most players and not worth the time and effort". That hasn't changed.
Making an optional overland will just split the playerbase, leaving end game players in one version and everyone else in the other. This will completely destroy the mix of players in each world, and having a mix of skill levels is vital for a functional community.PCNA4 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can someone link me this data that shows tons of players are leaving purely because overland is too easy? How are players emphatically making this claim from their own experience?
Let me understand this, players like them, who all complained about the same thing left the game, yet they themselves remain? Year after year? Yet you want players to believe this is a real issue? Why wouldn't the others continue putting up the same fight or why have you remained?
Players are using real data to show just how unpopular challenging content is in eso, where's the counter data? Zos is ignorant of this number of players leaving due to lack of difficulty and yet do nothing? Year after year? That makes sense to anyone?
Are we just pulling numbers out from nowhere that push the agenda? If I read one more personal experience as a gauge for the entire population it's open season on pulling numbers out of nowhere that state the opposite.
"I know plenty of players who would leave if they offered an optional vet overworld because reasons". Better get used to that statement.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway7 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »And overland not engaging players, by having no situations that require people to branch out and learn, by having content that can be cleared with so little effort, players don't learn to learn. If you face challenges you need to try different things, that's how players learn things. How many players enter 4 man dungeons for the first time clueless on what a stun is, or how to use food, because overland never encouraged them to try?
"inexpericenced on mechanics and i simply do not know the game well enough" is a direct reason one of them said for their question. Overland does nothing to prepare people, if people are engaged they learn, an npc mage who spends 20s of a 21s fight picking their nose doesn't teach anything.
“Not knowing the game well enough” is exactly the reason why overland is difficult for new players, but easier for people with experience. How is making overland more difficult in any way more helpful?
Vet players have experience, they have content specifically made for players with experience, do that.
That just highlights the devs failure to properly introduce mechanics / have a sufficient tutorial for new players. The problem is kinda glaring on the elswyr tutorial. Sure it shows you how yo heavy attack, block, interrupt. but does nothing to explain how food buffs are important, using light,hvys with class and weapon skills. Then to top if all off, you are fighting a dragon. Probably blows all previous lessons out the window because "Cool, I'm fighting a dragon!"
Engaging the player with mechanics that require a bit of skill and growing the need to use those skills leads to ....better players.
I disagree, I don't want to have to play to what someone feels is a standard that everyone should play the way they do. People keep throwing around terms like teaching players how to play? Wait a minute I am not here to play how others want me to play. I am here to have fun playing. I don't feel that anyone should demand I learn about weaving or skill or whatever it is they think I should be doing. When someone pays my sub then I might let them tell me how to play. As far a food overland doesn't need to teach me that. We had level areas we had silver and gold we had craglorn all of those didn't work. Making a new player frustrated is worse than having easier content. People who claim to be veteran players have experience. Am I a veteran I don't think so even though I have been here seven years. I have step foot in one dungeon in seven years. I don't care for toxic players. Also it's not just about new players many many more people do not touch harder content than do because of imposed standards by the community. This whole thread is not clear either, some people want overland to go back to being hard making it hard to progress for new people and casual players,some people want game mechanics that are not meant to be in overland content, some people want instances or a slider ( which I've only seen in single player games) while ignoring the majority of the player base. But than claiming people quit because it's too easy, when I know for a fact just the opposite happened when we had silver and gold, tedious and craglorn totally group play and the only way to progress at the time because there were not many dungeons in the game at the time.
This just keeps going around in circles. With a hand full of players wanting harder content I just feel we can keep having this conversation or find actual solutions that do not impose upon others who are happy with overland content. Just remember there are more casual players than those who are hardcore. The term veteran player is not accurate either.8
This discussion has been closed.