The real problem with combat in Overland
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Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can someone link me this data that shows tons of players are leaving purely because overland is too easy? How are players emphatically making this claim from their own experience?
Let me understand this, players like them, who all complained about the same thing left the game, yet they themselves remain? Year after year? Yet you want players to believe this is a real issue? Why wouldn't the others continue putting up the same fight or why have you remained?
Players are using real data to show just how unpopular challenging content is in eso, where's the counter data? Zos is ignorant of this number of players leaving due to lack of difficulty and yet do nothing? Year after year? That makes sense to anyone?
Are we just pulling numbers out from nowhere that push the agenda? If I read one more personal experience as a gauge for the entire population it's open season on pulling numbers out of nowhere that state the opposite.
"I know plenty of players who would leave if they offered an optional vet overworld because reasons". Better get used to that statement.
You know as well as I do that the data you seek is only known to Zos and they wont ever publish the numbers of people quitting the game. We cannot say how many or how few people left because of too easy overland since all we have is anecdotal evidence but it is enough to say that there is people leaving because of too easy overland.
I personally didnt like overland for quite some time but I stayed for vet trials and PvP. Others probably do the same. Some people might also stay to play with friends.
Data on completion rate is quite different in the sense that it is somewhat public through achievements and from Zos talking about it sometimes. No achievements for quitting the game or messages from Zos on how many players quit this month Im afraid.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.2 -
Rescorla_ESO✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Rescorla_ESO wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
it did work it was just too hard for most players and not worth the time and effort. Prior to One Tamriel it was also forced on the player if they wanted to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold. The difference now is it would be optional for those players who want to be challenged and want an extra reward for completing the challenge.
By your own words "it was just too hard for most players and not worth the time and effort". That hasn't changed.
Making an optional overland will just split the playerbase, leaving end game players in one version and everyone else in the other. This will completely destroy the mix of players in each world, and having a mix of skill levels is vital for a functional community.
So what if it splits the player base? As we have seen already in this thread the players who prefer trivially easy PVE content have made it clear they choose not to do challenging PVE like trials and vet dungeons. The game as it currently exists already splits the player base. Also, what you do when you play the game has zero impact on me or anyone else who plays. When I am doing solo PVE content I don't pay any attention to what other players are doing. If anything seeing them in the same delve or quest instance as me breaks immersion.
This is what it all boils down to.
The players who want trivially easy PVE content have exactly what they want. The players who want to do stuff like decorate their house, create unique outfit combinations, or play the crafting/trading game have exactly what they want. The players who have plenty of time on their hands and enjoy doing challenging content like trials and vet dungeons have exactly what they want. Players like me who enjoy the personal satisfaction of completing challenging PVE content and whose real life time constraints prevent me from doing trials and finding groups for vet dungeons would like to experience solo PVE content that is somewhat challenging. Giving me the option to do solo PVE content in hardmode has zero impact on any other player who wants trivially easy PVE.10 -
Rescorla_ESO✭✭✭✭Can someone link me this data that shows tons of players are leaving purely because overland is too easy? How are players emphatically making this claim from their own experience?
I started playing this game on Day 1. I played when Vet levels were in the game and Cadwell's Silver and Gold were challenging. Every time I have quit and taken months long breaks away from the game is 100% due to the fact that overland PVE is now trivially easy and I just got bored with doing the solo PVE quests. The only reason I came back this time after a one year break from the game was to check out the Antiquity system.
6 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Making an optional overland will just split the playerbase, leaving end game players in one version and everyone else in the other. This will completely destroy the mix of players in each world, and having a mix of skill levels is vital for a functional community.
So what if it splits the player base?
That would be detrimental because of what I said above. And also because One Tamriel was introduced to unite us. They are not going to introduce something to split us again.PCNA4 -
Rescorla_ESO✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »People have already explained that their desire for engaging overland and for the main story/questing experience does not mean they are asking for more group content like dungeons and trials.
We are generally happy with the state of Endgame, it’s fun.
We don’t enjoy the rest of the majority of the content- The general questing experience - For the various reasons I do not have to say again because you can read yourself on this very thread.
You keep on saying it’s fine and people keep on telling you that it’s not and they state the reasons why - only for you to say it’s fine again.
There cannot be a conversation if you are not willing to listen.
Some players may agree with you that overland is not hard enough or engaging, but they are far from the majority.
On what basis do you make the claim your opinion is the majority opinion? I would think most players regardless of their choice of playstyle would support the idea of giving every player the individual choice on how trivial or challenging they want the game to be.6 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »On what basis do you make the claim your opinion is the majority opinion?
On the same basis that you make yours.PCNA3 -
Rescorla_ESO✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Rescorla_ESO wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Making an optional overland will just split the playerbase, leaving end game players in one version and everyone else in the other. This will completely destroy the mix of players in each world, and having a mix of skill levels is vital for a functional community.
So what if it splits the player base?
That would be detrimental because of what I said above. And also because One Tamriel was introduced to unite us. They are not going to introduce something to split us again.
The player base is already split between the players who are technically competent at maximizing the performance of the characters and those who are not. The game gives both types of players content that is completable for their skill level.4 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »The player base is already split between the players who are technically competent at maximizing the performance of the characters and those who are not. The game gives both types of players content that is completable for their skill level.
It's not split... it's a mix of both.
Also, I would not classify the players as "players who are competent at maximizing the performance of the characters" and "those who are not". A more accurate description would be "players who develop their characters for end game content" and "casual players".PCNA5 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Rescorla_ESO wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
it did work it was just too hard for most players and not worth the time and effort. Prior to One Tamriel it was also forced on the player if they wanted to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold. The difference now is it would be optional for those players who want to be challenged and want an extra reward for completing the challenge.
By your own words "it was just too hard for most players and not worth the time and effort". That hasn't changed.
Making an optional overland will just split the playerbase, leaving end game players in one version and everyone else in the other. This will completely destroy the mix of players in each world, and having a mix of skill levels is vital for a functional community.
Zos has zero issues splitting the community as per their own words with the goals of the companion system.
This is a weak argument.5 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Zos has zero issues splitting the community as per their own words with the goals of the companion system.
Please provide a link to your source.PCNA0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Rescorla_ESO wrote: »The player base is already split between the players who are technically competent at maximizing the performance of the characters and those who are not. The game gives both types of players content that is completable for their skill level.
It's not split... it's a mix of both.
Also, I would not classify the players as "players who are competent at maximizing the performance of the characters" and "those who are not". A more accurate description would be "players who develop their characters for end game content" and "casual players".
It’s split in that there’s an ever increasing percentage of the player populace that doesn’t play Overland anymore, or just leaves the game due to the majority of the content being not engaging or fun.
And the content is designed in such a way that caters to the lowest common denominator. Just because everyone can easily complete the content, no matter their level or skill, doesn’t make the content enjoyable.
I don’t want everything to be a challenge so much as I want Overland to not be mind numbingly boring and to actually be engaging.
I would like the Main Story to have a sense of challenge and be a fight to look forward to rather than another encounter handed to me on a silver platter.
People are telling you that they would like overland to be fun and you are saying that would somehow hurt the player base .... by giving more players more options to have fun.
You keep comparing 2 instances to pre-one Tamriel which was a mess of 9 separate instances.3 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Zos has zero issues splitting the community as per their own words with the goals of the companion system.
Please provide a link to your source.
Rich lambert said verbatim that playing with other players can be scary and that the companion system is being added in part so solo focused players can play the game without that element of player interaction if they so chose.
They have no issue reinforcing a solo experience.
This was said on the reveal event earlier this year. You can do the google sleuthing.Edited by exeeter702 on March 30, 2021 6:42PM4 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Rich lambert said verbatim that playing with other players can be scary and that the companion system is being added in part so solo focused players can play the game without that element of player interaction if they so chose.
They have no issue reinforcing a solo experience.
This was said on the reveal event earlier this year. You can do the google sleuthing.
A solo experience doesn't translate to two completely different worlds.
Regardless, you made the claim. You are the one who needs to back it up with a reference.It’s split in that there’s an ever increasing percentage of the player populace that doesn’t play Overland anymore, or just leaves the game due to the majority of the content being not engaging or fun.
The biggest reason some players choose not to do overland any more isn't because they find it unengaging because it's too easy. It's because they have done it a gazillion times on all their alts and it's not new any more.Edited by SilverBride on March 30, 2021 6:51PMPCNA5 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If Zos stated that only 0.5 % of players completed veteran content and they want overland content to be made harder,
Then as a RolePlayer which also is around 0.5% of the population I want the overland mobs to engage in discussions with me and any conflict could be resolved with wits and an emote battle.
Imagine if the super rich aka 0.5 % were asking that all the prices of everything be increased cause it’s trivial for them.
Imagine if the extremely fit aka 0.5 % were asking for instead of sidewalk and elevators they had parkour style terrain to reach their intended destination.
Life and games would be way more “engaging”Edited by WiseSky on March 30, 2021 6:54PM9 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And overland not engaging players, by having no situations that require people to branch out and learn, by having content that can be cleared with so little effort, players don't learn to learn. If you face challenges you need to try different things, that's how players learn things. How many players enter 4 man dungeons for the first time clueless on what a stun is, or how to use food, because overland never encouraged them to try?
"inexpericenced on mechanics and i simply do not know the game well enough" is a direct reason one of them said for their question. Overland does nothing to prepare people, if people are engaged they learn, an npc mage who spends 20s of a 21s fight picking their nose doesn't teach anything.
“Not knowing the game well enough” is exactly the reason why overland is difficult for new players, but easier for people with experience. How is making overland more difficult in any way more helpful?
Vet players have experience, they have content specifically made for players with experience, do that.
The problem is that Overland is the majority of the contents, and by the time you’ve done 5 to 9 zones you’re no longer so New to the game that it’s still a struggle.
Eventually New players becomes consistent players. I largely play casually and I can say that Overland is boring.
So yes, we would like something in between the mind numbingly boring easy Overland and the hard-core endgame.
Because right now those are the two extremes that we can choose.
We can choose either story - or - engaging gameplay. We don’t get both.2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Rich lambert said verbatim that playing with other players can be scary and that the companion system is being added in part so solo focused players can play the game without that element of player interaction if they so chose.
They have no issue reinforcing a solo experience.
This was said on the reveal event earlier this year. You can do the google sleuthing.
A solo experience doesn't translate to two completely different worlds.
Regardless, you made the claim. You are the one who needs to back it up with a reference.It’s split in that there’s an ever increasing percentage of the player populace that doesn’t play Overland anymore, or just leaves the game due to the majority of the content being not engaging or fun.
The biggest reason some players choose not to do overland any more isn't because they find it unengaging because it's too easy. It's because they have done it a gazillion times on all their alts and it's not new any more.
You can go back through this very thread and see that people don’t even bother playing the new overland content and story, from DLCs & Chapters, with any of their characters.
Not with their alts or their mains. They don’t bother with any of it because it’s not fun or engaging.1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Rich lambert said verbatim that playing with other players can be scary and that the companion system is being added in part so solo focused players can play the game without that element of player interaction if they so chose.
They have no issue reinforcing a solo experience.
This was said on the reveal event earlier this year. You can do the google sleuthing.
A solo experience doesn't translate to two completely different worlds.
Regardless, you made the claim. You are the one who needs to back it up with a reference.
I don't need to back anything up lol.. if you want to disregard it and remain in the dark to the subject, that's on you.
The PR speak of the companion system is to help solo focused players do content they would otherwise not do with strangers, and "hopefully" ease them into group content, which is surely a noble cause right? Expect that zos absolutely doesnt wouldnt have created this feature if they had even an inkling of desire to incentivize cross player interactions in overland. They are implementing a system to further foster the lack of any need for casual players to play with random players in the overworld.
Two separate worlds vs solo experience is semantics. And if you are going to try amd creep that rebuttal into a technical code limitation or dev time sink, know that the server infrastructure / tech already exists in facilitate that device with minimal burden.
Dividing players is a weak argument.Edited by exeeter702 on March 30, 2021 7:03PM1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If Zos stated that only 0.5 % of players completed veteran content and they want overland content to be made harder,
Then as a RolePlayer which also is around 0.5% of the population I want the overland mobs to engage in discussions with me and any conflict could be resolved with wits and an emote battle.
Imagine if the super rich aka 0.5 % were asking that all the prices of everything be increased cause it’s trivial for them.
Imagine if the extremely fit aka 0.5 % were asking for instead of sidewalk and elevators they had parkour style terrain to reach their intended destination.
Life and games would be way more “engaging”
How does a populace asking for an ‘option’ translate to them asking for something that applied to everyone?
That’s the logic that you are presenting. It’s not even an accurate comparison to have people been saying3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can go back through this very thread and see that people don’t even bother playing the new overland content and story, from DLCs & Chapters, with any of their characters.
Not with their alts or their mains. They don’t bother with any of it because it’s not fun or engaging.
I doubt people are not playing new content because it's not fun or engaging because that is flawed logic. You can't make a judgement about something you haven't experienced.
Regardless, you and I are never going to agree. It is a bad idea to split into two worlds and alienate players from each other, and it's a small minority who want that any way.
I am confident that this will never happen, and I swore I wouldn't get caught up in this mess again, so I am done.PCNA5 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If Zos stated that only 0.5 % of players completed veteran content and they want overland content to be made harder,
Then as a RolePlayer which also is around 0.5% of the population I want the overland mobs to engage in discussions with me and any conflict could be resolved with wits and an emote battle.
Imagine if the super rich aka 0.5 % were asking that all the prices of everything be increased cause it’s trivial for them.
Imagine if the extremely fit aka 0.5 % were asking for instead of sidewalk and elevators they had parkour style terrain to reach their intended destination.
Life and games would be way more “engaging”
That would be a good analogy if the "super rich" were asking for everyone's prices to go up. They're only asking for their own.
In this case the "extremely fit" are asking for the choice to parkour style terrain instead of being forced to use elevators and sidewalks.2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »You can go back through this very thread and see that people don’t even bother playing the new overland content and story, from DLCs & Chapters, with any of their characters.
Not with their alts or their mains. They don’t bother with any of it because it’s not fun or engaging.
I doubt people are not playing new content because it's not fun or engaging because that is flawed logic. You can't make a judgement about something you haven't experienced.
Regardless, you and I are never going to agree. It is a bad idea to split into two worlds and alienate players from each other, and it's a small minority who want that any way.
I am confident that this will never happen, and I swore I wouldn't get caught up in this mess again, so I am done.
People have literally said the very thing that you doubt exists.
Several pages back people have said they don’t do Overland content more. They just do the dungeons and trials because Overland just isn’t fun for them.
Do you want evidence? There it is.
You can read it yourself, and you’ll find that not only here on this thread but on other threads that I’ve talked about this issue.
——————————————————
Edit: Also from my perspective the only person doing any alienating here has been you - Because you have consistently made the point that not everyone’s enjoyment of overland & story matters.
That the only people who matter when it comes to Overland is this very specific subsection of new players just getting into the game.Edited by Iccotak on March 30, 2021 7:24PM6 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If Zos stated that only 0.5 % of players completed veteran content and they want overland content to be made harder,
Then as a RolePlayer which also is around 0.5% of the population I want the overland mobs to engage in discussions with me and any conflict could be resolved with wits and an emote battle.
Imagine if the super rich aka 0.5 % were asking that all the prices of everything be increased cause it’s trivial for them.
Imagine if the extremely fit aka 0.5 % were asking for instead of sidewalk and elevators they had parkour style terrain to reach their intended destination.
Life and games would be way more “engaging”
How does a populace asking for an ‘option’ translate to them asking for something that applied to everyone?
That’s the logic that you are presenting. It’s not even an accurate comparison to have people been saying
Ok sure let’s scratch that one. You are right.
What do you have to say to my demand that overland content be made for RolePlayers?
The is no reason a wolf I see in the wild, can’t be lured with fresh meat and is made to ignore me or even be tamed.
All those humanoids could be bribed, I could talk to them and just pay them to leave.
Or shouldn’t most mobs fear and run away from a mystical Fire and Ice warrior decked out in magical armour riding some mount that even the deadric princes would be jealous of?
I strongly believe that as a RolePlayers the overland content is not “engaging” it’s just violent.
All of the overland mobs can only be solved with violence.
I want the option to persuade or intimidate or bribe each and every overland monster.Edited by WiseSky on March 30, 2021 7:23PM6 -
Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
Players like me who enjoy the personal satisfaction of completing challenging PVE content and whose real life time constraints prevent me from doing trials and finding groups for vet dungeons would like to experience solo PVE content that is somewhat challenging. Giving me the option to do solo PVE content in hardmode has zero impact on any other player who wants trivially easy PVE.
Why not start doing dungeons and vet dungeons solo? That's essentially a hard mode for them, and it's a lot of fun. Challenging too, depending on your build and the dungeon. IMO it's the most fun solo content, even though it is designed to be group content.
Granted, there's some dungeons that can't be solo'd due to mechanics, but there's a lot that can. I am hoping the upcoming companion system allows those dungeons to be solo'd.Edited by penguin_zombies on March 30, 2021 7:27PM0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If Zos stated that only 0.5 % of players completed veteran content and they want overland content to be made harder,
Then as a RolePlayer which also is around 0.5% of the population I want the overland mobs to engage in discussions with me and any conflict could be resolved with wits and an emote battle.
Imagine if the super rich aka 0.5 % were asking that all the prices of everything be increased cause it’s trivial for them.
Imagine if the extremely fit aka 0.5 % were asking for instead of sidewalk and elevators they had parkour style terrain to reach their intended destination.
Life and games would be way more “engaging”
How does a populace asking for an ‘option’ translate to them asking for something that applied to everyone?
That’s the logic that you are presenting. It’s not even an accurate comparison to have people been saying
Ok sure let’s scratch that one. You are right.
What do you have to say to my demand that overland content be made for RolePlayers?
The is no reason a wolf I see in the wild, can’t be lured with fresh meat and is made to ignore me or even be tamed.
All those humanoids could be bribed, I could talk to them and just pay them to leave.
Or shouldn’t most mobs fear and run away from a mystical Fire and Ice warrior decked out in magical armour riding some mount that even the deadric princes would be jealous of?
I strongly believe that as a RolePlayers the overland content is not “engaging” it’s just violent.
All of the overland mobs can only be solved with violence.
I want the option to persuade or intimidate or bribe each and every overland monster.
Actually, I have another thread in the role-playing section that asks what the developers could do to make it more role player friendly because I do think there are things that could be improved when it comes to the aspect of role-playing considering that this is an RPG.
Maybe the developers should work on the AI so then an animal/creature retreats when it knows the odds are against it.
Maybe there should be instances where an enemy mob backs down and asks for you to let them go..
If that’s a thing you want to talk about here’s a link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529662/what-could-zenimax-do-to-better-accommodate-the-role-player-community/p11 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If Zos stated that only 0.5 % of players completed veteran content and they want overland content to be made harder,
Then as a RolePlayer which also is around 0.5% of the population I want the overland mobs to engage in discussions with me and any conflict could be resolved with wits and an emote battle.
Imagine if the super rich aka 0.5 % were asking that all the prices of everything be increased cause it’s trivial for them.
Imagine if the extremely fit aka 0.5 % were asking for instead of sidewalk and elevators they had parkour style terrain to reach their intended destination.
Life and games would be way more “engaging”
How does a populace asking for an ‘option’ translate to them asking for something that applied to everyone?
That’s the logic that you are presenting. It’s not even an accurate comparison to have people been saying
Ok sure let’s scratch that one. You are right.
What do you have to say to my demand that overland content be made for RolePlayers?
The is no reason a wolf I see in the wild, can’t be lured with fresh meat and is made to ignore me or even be tamed.
All those humanoids could be bribed, I could talk to them and just pay them to leave.
Or shouldn’t most mobs fear and run away from a mystical Fire and Ice warrior decked out in magical armour riding some mount that even the deadric princes would be jealous of?
I strongly believe that as a RolePlayers the overland content is not “engaging” it’s just violent.
All of the overland mobs can only be solved with violence.
I want the option to persuade or intimidate or bribe each and every overland monster.
Actually, I have another thread in the role-playing section that asks what the developers could do to make it more role player friendly because I do think there are things that could be improved when it comes to the aspect of role-playing considering that this is an RPG.
Maybe the developers should work on the AI so then an animal/creature retreats when it knows the odds are against it.
Maybe there should be instances where an enemy mob backs down and asks for you to let them go..
If that’s a thing you want to talk about here’s a link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529662/what-could-zenimax-do-to-better-accommodate-the-role-player-community/p1
I know of that post and have posted multiple times one it
Maybe Zos should make a forum section for Vetran players, cause this sort of post in general discussion is not really for the general populace.
3 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If Zos stated that only 0.5 % of players completed veteran content and they want overland content to be made harder,
Then as a RolePlayer which also is around 0.5% of the population I want the overland mobs to engage in discussions with me and any conflict could be resolved with wits and an emote battle.
Imagine if the super rich aka 0.5 % were asking that all the prices of everything be increased cause it’s trivial for them.
Imagine if the extremely fit aka 0.5 % were asking for instead of sidewalk and elevators they had parkour style terrain to reach their intended destination.
Life and games would be way more “engaging”
How does a populace asking for an ‘option’ translate to them asking for something that applied to everyone?
That’s the logic that you are presenting. It’s not even an accurate comparison to have people been saying
Ok sure let’s scratch that one. You are right.
What do you have to say to my demand that overland content be made for RolePlayers?
The is no reason a wolf I see in the wild, can’t be lured with fresh meat and is made to ignore me or even be tamed.
All those humanoids could be bribed, I could talk to them and just pay them to leave.
Or shouldn’t most mobs fear and run away from a mystical Fire and Ice warrior decked out in magical armour riding some mount that even the deadric princes would be jealous of?
I strongly believe that as a RolePlayers the overland content is not “engaging” it’s just violent.
All of the overland mobs can only be solved with violence.
I want the option to persuade or intimidate or bribe each and every overland monster.
I dont think that every single monster should be able to be bribed, maybe illusion magic would be better suited here?
I'd be all for it though. You're right, violence is the only tool in the tool box.1 -
Ergele✭✭✭Instead of vet overland perhaps a toggle to nerf ourselves would be nice?
Like a toggle that increases our damage taken and nerfs our healing while granting extra exp and gold?0 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »And overland not engaging players, by having no situations that require people to branch out and learn, by having content that can be cleared with so little effort, players don't learn to learn. If you face challenges you need to try different things, that's how players learn things. How many players enter 4 man dungeons for the first time clueless on what a stun is, or how to use food, because overland never encouraged them to try?
"inexpericenced on mechanics and i simply do not know the game well enough" is a direct reason one of them said for their question. Overland does nothing to prepare people, if people are engaged they learn, an npc mage who spends 20s of a 21s fight picking their nose doesn't teach anything.
“Not knowing the game well enough” is exactly the reason why overland is difficult for new players, but easier for people with experience. How is making overland more difficult in any way more helpful?
Vet players have experience, they have content specifically made for players with experience, do that.
That just highlights the devs failure to properly introduce mechanics / have a sufficient tutorial for new players. The problem is kinda glaring on the elswyr tutorial. Sure it shows you how yo heavy attack, block, interrupt. but does nothing to explain how food buffs are important, using light,hvys with class and weapon skills. Then to top if all off, you are fighting a dragon. Probably blows all previous lessons out the window because "Cool, I'm fighting a dragon!"
Engaging the player with mechanics that require a bit of skill and growing the need to use those skills leads to ....better players.
I disagree, I don't want to have to play to what someone feels is a standard that everyone should play the way they do.
I think you have missed the point here. Its not the other players setting some standard for people to meet. It's the game itself not explaining/showing/demonstrating (pick your favorite verbage) in game mechanics fully. This concept of the game explaining how things happen in the game is universal. Whereas most games will have a better tutorial phase and ramping mechanics, ESO has a bare bones tutorial and then a massive plateau of content that is equivalent to similar games starter zones.
Overland asks for bare minimum effort and so that is what players give.This just keeps going around in circles. With a hand full of players wanting harder content I just feel we can keep having this conversation or find actual solutions that do not impose upon others who are happy with overland content. Just remember there are more casual players than those who are hardcore. The term veteran player is not accurate either.
Total group play overland was a failure, I haven't seen anyone ask for its return. You wont see good numbers about people quitting because *gasp* bad optics. Why else would all the "I quit" threads get deleted.
A solution? Make some set instances of overland vet with the option to enter into them. As others have stated, there are multiple instances of a map running already.
*fixed a messed up quote by me, should be more legible now*Edited by Thechuckage on March 31, 2021 11:06PM1 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thechuckage wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »And overland not engaging players, by having no situations that require people to branch out and learn, by having content that can be cleared with so little effort, players don't learn to learn. If you face challenges you need to try different things, that's how players learn things. How many players enter 4 man dungeons for the first time clueless on what a stun is, or how to use food, because overland never encouraged them to try?
"inexpericenced on mechanics and i simply do not know the game well enough" is a direct reason one of them said for their question. Overland does nothing to prepare people, if people are engaged they learn, an npc mage who spends 20s of a 21s fight picking their nose doesn't teach anything.
“Not knowing the game well enough” is exactly the reason why overland is difficult for new players, but easier for people with experience. How is making overland more difficult in any way more helpful?
Vet players have experience, they have content specifically made for players with experience, do that.
That just highlights the devs failure to properly introduce mechanics / have a sufficient tutorial for new players. The problem is kinda glaring on the elswyr tutorial. Sure it shows you how yo heavy attack, block, interrupt. but does nothing to explain how food buffs are important, using light,hvys with class and weapon skills. Then to top if all off, you are fighting a dragon. Probably blows all previous lessons out the window because "Cool, I'm fighting a dragon!"
Engaging the player with mechanics that require a bit of skill and growing the need to use those skills leads to ....better players.
I disagree, I don't want to have to play to what someone feels is a standard that everyone should play the way they do.
I think you have missed the point here. Its not the other players setting some standard for people to meet. It's the game itself not explaining/showing/demonstrating (pick your favorite verbage) in game mechanics fully. This concept of the game explaining how things happen in the game is universal. Whereas most games will have a better tutorial phase and ramping mechanics, ESO has a bare bones tutorial and then a massive plateau of content that is equivalent to similar games starter zones.
Overland asks for bare minimum effort and so that is what players give.
Total group play overland was a failure, I haven't seen anyone ask for its return. You wont see good numbers about people quitting because *gasp* bad optics. Why else would all the "I quit" threads get deleted.
A solution? Make some set instances of overland vet with the option to enter into them. As others have stated, there are multiple instances of a map running already.
Alurria wrote below
I don't have a problem with instances for people who want more of a challenge. What I have a problem with is overland being changed for everyone because a small minority are bored. I have asked for clarification in this thread more than one time but no one is in agreement about what they want. We have some advocating for overland to be changed in difficulty, mechanics etc. Until we have clarification there can be no real exchange of working solutions. If people can't really identify the problem how can it be solved. If you read this thread in it's entirety you will see there are people asking for different things. The conversation then circles around. No one else way of playing should be imposed on another. Until there is actual agreement on what exactly people feel the problem is I don't believe Zos feels there is a problem with overland content otherwise this would have been addressed by now. I know they have the numbers to look at and I feel like the numbers indicate most people are happy or we would have seen changes being made very quickly to keep the player base intact. That last is just my opinion.
Oh I don't think you can equate every I quit thread with someone leaving because of overland content and to imply so is false. I am not into bashing Zos either because I enjoy the product they have made. I pay my sub every 90 days because I find entertainment in the game. I'm not a programmer or developer and have no business telling them if something is easy or hard to implement. I am a customer who can give an opinion but that doesn't mean I get to make demands. And here is the thing if someone is so unhappy they leave that is their decision. Most people who quit do not come to these forums and announce it. As they shouldn't because the forums should be a place of constructive posts not endless complaints about being bored. Any 3 or 4 year old can complain they are bored after playing with a new toy for 10 minutes. You think to yourself if your bored go do something elseEdited by Alurria on March 31, 2021 3:38PM0 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Memba looking at a craglorn mob and wondering if the node/nirn chance was worth it?
Fear is the Mindkiller1
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