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Mudball harrassment
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virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
I’m used to this from academia. Glad to know people aren’t all that different outside the Ivory Tower...2 -
Bucky_13✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You reported him??? I mean I kind of understand you being annoyed, but you actually want him to get banned for throwing mudballs? Seems totally excessive and I am no longer sure who the bad guy is in this situation.IntenseRenegader wrote: »Often i find myself getting bombarded with mudballs, and especially this one guy yesterday kept targetting me, i gently asked him to stop and that only seemed to fuel the fire, as he actually stopped throwing it at others, and only threw at me after that. I ported out of the instance and reported the guy.
Mudballs is the only thing I'd report someone for except for botting in Cyro. I hate the mudballs so much, would prefer to have ZoS remove them from the game completely however.
I have never reported being mudballed but in the future I will ask annoying people to stop and if they don't I will report them just because I have now seen how many people get absolutely LIVID over the idea that someone could be punished for bad behaviour
First one, I ask them nicely to stop, second one it's either a report or start to insult or bait them. I could write my opinion about people who throw mudballs here, but I'd be removed by the mods so I won't.
Well, the whole thread’s in for a lock between the bashing, baiting, flaming, misinformation, discussion of disciplinary action, and probably more. Just a matter of a mod being awake (sorry for the mess!).
Lol, fair enough. If you could have an option to completely ignore the effects of having a mudball thrown at you, then I wouldn't care about it. But that animation annoys the hell out of me for some reason.1 -
Spawniaq✭✭✭its MMORPG, be happy they only used mudballs, some random Skooma Mafia role players could kidnapp you, and sell your bodyparts...
maybe in that mudballs guys perspective that was a free chocolate ball and he was the Charlie...
accept the blessing
we hate haters
Ps4 / Eu0 -
WhereArtThouVampires✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.0 -
deleted008293✭✭✭✭Okay lets say again... You are doing a video or taking part on an event or just on a break from a bad day, or a good one why not. Out of nowhere somebody jumps right in the middle of it and interrupt that with all sorts of emotes.
An option to turn them off would be really nice. I encountered myself a lot of players who felt harassed over all sorts of things such as playing lute, throwing flowers or mudballs. Unfortunately many players can feel harassed over nothing and causes problems in a smaller or larger community. Communication is the key here. But not hate speech but a nice mature talk in which you simply tell your "harasser" that his or her.
Stop doing "namehere". Is hate speech. And might either encourage such behaviour towards you or others. But when you explain the reason in a nice manner then maybe things would also be easier to understand.
Imagine you are new to an MMO and you see ppl doing the teabag emote on others. You do same. Without knowing that is offensive. Without being explained why that is offensive you might continue such behavior.
On the other way if you do not see someone harassing you then you will also not feel harassed. It won't ruin your day and it won't ruin the other person day either.0 -
xTAKISx✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
For some people it's not about being factually correct, it's about arguing until feeling like the audience views them as right
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
Mark Twain.1 -
deleted008293✭✭✭✭We have an option in game to turn on/off profany. So why not having an option to turn off player emotes and mementos.1
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭How about other "balls" you can strike other players ?
About cake events, snow balls ?
You only do not like Mud balls ?
Mud balls are just OK.
Stop harrasment to mud balls !1 -
WhereArtThouVampires✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?2 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
For some people it's not about being factually correct, it's about arguing until feeling like the audience views them as right
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
Mark Twain.
I'm much more for Sun Tzu's work
"Every battle is won before it is fought"
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
1 -
Togal✭✭✭✭There used to be people pelting me with mudballs at the outfit station, it was annoying but it was kinda funny at the same time.0
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WhereArtThouVampires✭✭✭✭How about other "balls" you can strike other players ?
About cake events, snow balls ?
You only do not like Mud balls ?
Mud balls are just OK.
Stop harrasment to mud balls !
everyone says what about mudballs?
But nobody ever says 'How's mudballs?'
#pleasestopmudballtargetting
#OtherBallsAreBallsToo.4 -
xTAKISx✭✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?
From my time in the forums @VaranisArano has been a pretty respected and solid pillar of the community. Guess everyone has a bad day every once and a while.2 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?
From my time in the forums @VaranisArano has been a pretty respected and solid pillar of the community. Guess everyone has a bad day every once and a while.
Yeah, sometimes @VaranisArano posts helpful information quoting from the company and people who feel like they disagree with those statements decide to go on about how their inability to comprehend a statement means the statement is somehow not valid in the way it was presented
stuff like that can be a bad day for anyone; make an honest effort to provide factual information only to be met with skepticism"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
2 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
It's not about my beliefs in this case, it's about my experiences moderating for a gaming company in a corporate setting and the positions of the upper management in those instances
it is viewed as much less of a loss to get rid of a single toxic player than to lose the multiple players that report them
can comprehend that you have a lot of personal feelings or beliefs about why you may not agree with such business practices, am not really interested in those so much as the facts of what ZOS position has been expressed to be"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭someone was asked to stop doing something, not only did they not stop they increased their efforts to hit the player in question with mudballs.
I have nothing against mudballs and pies and am happybto throw them at friends. The occasional innocent 3rd party may get one by accident but I would never target someone outside my guild.
To deliberately target someone after they have asked you to stop is harassment, same as with tbagging. I'm sure there will be plenty of snowflake and get over yourself comments but for those targeted in this way it can make them feel uncomfortable and for those with anxiety can set off their anxiety symptoms.
Unfortunately we are all quite different and their are plenty who play the game that have mental health issues (not suggesting the OP has, I don't know them) and things like targeted harassment can trigger their symptoms.
I'm not saying don't throw mudballs, I'm saying respect others and if they ask you to stop, stop. Failing to do so isn't funny, it's nasty and could have a really detrimental effect on someone's health.
Yes to the thrower its just a mudball, to the person being harassed it may just be a mudball, or it may be a reminder of when they've been harassed in real life.
This is a game I agree, but don't think what happens on the game necessarily stays in the game. Should respect to your fellow players, have fun but don't harass.
I agree with this. Also, the point of reporting a player for this isn't to get him banned or even suspended, it's partly to enable ZOS to see that there's a problem and partly to enable them to check the reported player's account - and if there's a history of this sort of thing or other forms of harassment thenthere's a case for disciplinary action.1 -
WhereArtThouVampires✭✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?
From my time in the forums @VaranisArano has been a pretty respected and solid pillar of the community. Guess everyone has a bad day every once and a while.
Yeah, sometimes @VaranisArano posts helpful information quoting from the company and people who feel like they disagree with those statements decide to go on about how their inability to comprehend a statement means the statement is somehow not valid in the way it was presented
stuff like that can be a bad day for anyone; make an honest effort to provide factual information only to be met with skepticism
at least we can all agree it isn't as bad of a day as getting mudball'd repeatedly on ESO.
That truly makes for the worst of days judging by the people here.1 -
WhereArtThouVampires✭✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?
From my time in the forums @VaranisArano has been a pretty respected and solid pillar of the community. Guess everyone has a bad day every once and a while.
Everyone hops on the oopsie train now and then, I totally get it.1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?
From my time in the forums @VaranisArano has been a pretty respected and solid pillar of the community. Guess everyone has a bad day every once and a while.
Yeah, sometimes @VaranisArano posts helpful information quoting from the company and people who feel like they disagree with those statements decide to go on about how their inability to comprehend a statement means the statement is somehow not valid in the way it was presented
stuff like that can be a bad day for anyone; make an honest effort to provide factual information only to be met with skepticism
at least we can all agree it isn't as bad of a day as getting mudball'd repeatedly on ESO.
That truly makes for the worst of days judging by the people here.
oh for sure, getting mudballed repeatedly is not a bad day by my standards -- have spent 90% of my life below the poverty line and being in a place to game now at all is a blessing
that won't stop me from politely asking people to stop in the future and reporting them if they do not tho, something does not have to ruin my day for me to recognize how it is bad to have in the communityEdited by Samadhi on March 10, 2021 11:26AM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
ZeniMax Media is part of Microsoft now. So, speaking as a stockholder, I’m of the opinion that people who agree to abide by the ToS and CoC should abide by them.
In the meantime, did you actually follow that link and read Gina’s post that “spamming emotes is fine, although if someone asks you to please stop, you should stop”? Sounds like it covers emotes to me.1 -
WhereArtThouVampires✭✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
It's not about my beliefs in this case, it's about my experiences moderating for a gaming company in a corporate setting and the positions of the upper management in those instances
it is viewed as much less of a loss to get rid of a single toxic player than to lose the multiple players that report them
can comprehend that you have a lot of personal feelings or beliefs about why you may not agree with such business practices, am not really interested in those so much as the facts of what ZOS position has been expressed to be
Right, but here's the thing with your first bit of experience there. People like OP won't be lost to the game or company because they will NEVER see the mudballer again or remember their name.
So, they can either choose to not lose a thing or to get rid of a potentially very high paying customer just because of an emote the devs created. At that point with my experience in corporate, if the feature is deemed to lead to extremely toxic behavior then it should be removed or at the very least be given an option to turn off by clicking ignore on the player.
But, it also isn't a reportable thing because it's a feature the devs implemented.0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
ZeniMax Media is part of Microsoft now. So, speaking as a stockholder, I’m of the opinion that people who agree to abide by the ToS and CoC should abide by them.
In the meantime, did you actually follow that link and read Gina’s post that “spamming emotes is fine, although if someone asks you to please stop, you should stop”? Sounds like it covers emotes to me.
Why it is ok to stop if some one asks ?
If they ask:
Stop stay 1000 meters near me, stop play the same server, stop sit near me, stop stay AFK ?
Just make them option like decline duells and let them be happy. If they are so self important for mud balls.0 -
WhereArtThouVampires✭✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
ZeniMax Media is part of Microsoft now. So, speaking as a stockholder, I’m of the opinion that people who agree to abide by the ToS and CoC should abide by them.
In the meantime, did you actually follow that link and read Gina’s post that “spamming emotes is fine, although if someone asks you to please stop, you should stop”? Sounds like it covers emotes to me.
Gina making an off-hand comment about 'you should stop' doesn't really mean much. If she added a 'or disciplinary action will be taken' at the end of it, I'd agree fully.
But her just saying that doesn't necessarily mean it's something that is punishable.
And again, if the emote has a chance of breaking the ToS why is it even in the game in the first place then? Coming from a stockholder position, it'd make a lot more sense to simply remove the emote entirely.Edited by WhereArtThouVampires on March 10, 2021 11:32AM0 -
RedMuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rootmender_Inky wrote: »As an Argonian, I mudball lots of people.
First, good for your dryskin.
Second, MOISTURE is good for you, makes scales shiny
Third, *Throws Mudball and runs*
Please dont spoil the fun of mudballing people just because you got butthurt about people doing it to you. Simply ignore the person or change instance.
Seems like a petty thing to ask, and you dont see the other sides perspective. Did the Mudballers killed you? Did they steal from you or caused harm in any way? No, you got offended with another human interacting with you.
Also, I know it can be frustrating when you ask people to stop and they dont do so. People are like that, and don't ruin it for the rest of us just because YOU had a bad experience. As I said, change zone, instance, or simply mudball them back.
Hist guide you Beeko
I'm sorry but OP is not the problem and I doubt ZOS is going to stop mudballing totally because a few people don't know how to behave and think harassment is okay. Yes continuing doing something to someone after they told you to stop is harassment. OP did all they should have to to stop this person, which is tell them to stop it. If any consequences comes to them or to the community as a whole because they chose to harass OP that is their fault, not OP's. If you have a problem, take it up with the people like the harasser who haven't been taught basic manners and decency.1 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
ZeniMax Media is part of Microsoft now. So, speaking as a stockholder, I’m of the opinion that people who agree to abide by the ToS and CoC should abide by them.
In the meantime, did you actually follow that link and read Gina’s post that “spamming emotes is fine, although if someone asks you to please stop, you should stop”? Sounds like it covers emotes to me.
Gina making an off-hand comment about 'you should stop' doesn't really mean much. If she added a 'or disciplinary action will be taken' at the end of it, I'd agree fully.
But her just saying that doesn't necessarily mean it's something that is punishable.
And again, if the emote has a chance of breaking the ToS why is it even in the game in the first place then? Coming from a stockholder position, it'd make a lot more sense to simply remove the emote entirely.
So you did not in fact read the post or her other post in that thread. It is very clear that continuing to teabag or spam emotes on a single person (“targeted harassment”) after someone has asked you to stop “is not ok.” It can lead to action, which is not something they take lightly. They have a team to consider the best response depending on context, also as Gina said.
It is not the emote itself that is the problem. It is spamming it after you have been asked to stop that is the problem.2 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭It is true that it is not really good to do bad thingth to others. And if some one do not like some thing, it will be good to stop. But if some one asks to much ? Logick must be in the first place !
Do not like sit stand on me, jump near me, ingame communications... .
And i just do not like such people.
So give us button to ban such people and do not take META players for groups.
Or let them play META server some where in a long distance of other players.
All is OK with game. No problem that players can solve on their own.
May be T- bag was bad, because you can not kill 10 players solo that T- bag you.
With mud ball - 2 k to buy, free to strike.
No real problem !
0 -
WhereArtThouVampires✭✭✭✭Rootmender_Inky wrote: »As an Argonian, I mudball lots of people.
First, good for your dryskin.
Second, MOISTURE is good for you, makes scales shiny
Third, *Throws Mudball and runs*
Please dont spoil the fun of mudballing people just because you got butthurt about people doing it to you. Simply ignore the person or change instance.
Seems like a petty thing to ask, and you dont see the other sides perspective. Did the Mudballers killed you? Did they steal from you or caused harm in any way? No, you got offended with another human interacting with you.
Also, I know it can be frustrating when you ask people to stop and they dont do so. People are like that, and don't ruin it for the rest of us just because YOU had a bad experience. As I said, change zone, instance, or simply mudball them back.
Hist guide you Beeko
I'm sorry but OP is not the problem and I doubt ZOS is going to stop mudballing totally because a few people don't know how to behave and think harassment is okay. Yes continuing doing something to someone after they told you to stop is harassment. OP did all they should have to to stop this person, which is tell them to stop it. If any consequences comes to them or to the community as a whole because they chose to harass OP that is their fault, not OP's. If you have a problem, take it up with the people like the harasser who haven't been taught basic manners and decency.
By this logic if I tell someone to stop standing in front of me in game they should move otherwise it is harassment.
And apologies if I don't exactly have too much sympathy for the harrowing experience OP must have gone through with getting pixels tossed on their screen.0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
It's not about my beliefs in this case, it's about my experiences moderating for a gaming company in a corporate setting and the positions of the upper management in those instances
it is viewed as much less of a loss to get rid of a single toxic player than to lose the multiple players that report them
can comprehend that you have a lot of personal feelings or beliefs about why you may not agree with such business practices, am not really interested in those so much as the facts of what ZOS position has been expressed to be
Right, but here's the thing with your first bit of experience there. People like OP won't be lost to the game or company because they will NEVER see the mudballer again or remember their name.
So, they can either choose to not lose a thing or to get rid of a potentially very high paying customer just because of an emote the devs created. At that point with my experience in corporate, if the feature is deemed to lead to extremely toxic behavior then it should be removed or at the very least be given an option to turn off by clicking ignore on the player.
But, it also isn't a reportable thing because it's a feature the devs implemented.
Right but here's the thing with your lack of experience -- ZOS has to manage a community and has the tools to do so
you apparently do not even comprehend the tools because you posed me the question
which is simply not true and demonstrates that you are not thinking of this issue from the perspective of the gaming company but instead from the perspective of a gamer defending player toxicitySee, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
Chat logs will show that the player was asked to stop. Activity logs will show that the player continued. It's not some case where ZOS can't see what goes on in alleyways in their servers, everything we do in game can be observed and logged
you keep framing hypotheticals according to your standards in response to being told about how cases are handled in the real world"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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