VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
You reported him??? I mean I kind of understand you being annoyed, but you actually want him to get banned for throwing mudballs? Seems totally excessive and I am no longer sure who the bad guy is in this situation.IntenseRenegader wrote: »Often i find myself getting bombarded with mudballs, and especially this one guy yesterday kept targetting me, i gently asked him to stop and that only seemed to fuel the fire, as he actually stopped throwing it at others, and only threw at me after that. I ported out of the instance and reported the guy.
Mudballs is the only thing I'd report someone for except for botting in Cyro. I hate the mudballs so much, would prefer to have ZoS remove them from the game completely however.
I have never reported being mudballed but in the future I will ask annoying people to stop and if they don't I will report them just because I have now seen how many people get absolutely LIVID over the idea that someone could be punished for bad behaviour
First one, I ask them nicely to stop, second one it's either a report or start to insult or bait them. I could write my opinion about people who throw mudballs here, but I'd be removed by the mods so I won't.
Well, the whole thread’s in for a lock between the bashing, baiting, flaming, misinformation, discussion of disciplinary action, and probably more. Just a matter of a mod being awake (sorry for the mess!).
VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
For some people it's not about being factually correct, it's about arguing until feeling like the audience views them as right
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
For some people it's not about being factually correct, it's about arguing until feeling like the audience views them as right
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
Mark Twain.
How about other "balls" you can strike other players ?
About cake events, snow balls ?
You only do not like Mud balls ?
Mud balls are just OK.
Stop harrasment to mud balls !
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?
From my time in the forums @VaranisArano has been a pretty respected and solid pillar of the community. Guess everyone has a bad day every once and a while.
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
someone was asked to stop doing something, not only did they not stop they increased their efforts to hit the player in question with mudballs.
I have nothing against mudballs and pies and am happybto throw them at friends. The occasional innocent 3rd party may get one by accident but I would never target someone outside my guild.
To deliberately target someone after they have asked you to stop is harassment, same as with tbagging. I'm sure there will be plenty of snowflake and get over yourself comments but for those targeted in this way it can make them feel uncomfortable and for those with anxiety can set off their anxiety symptoms.
Unfortunately we are all quite different and their are plenty who play the game that have mental health issues (not suggesting the OP has, I don't know them) and things like targeted harassment can trigger their symptoms.
I'm not saying don't throw mudballs, I'm saying respect others and if they ask you to stop, stop. Failing to do so isn't funny, it's nasty and could have a really detrimental effect on someone's health.
Yes to the thrower its just a mudball, to the person being harassed it may just be a mudball, or it may be a reminder of when they've been harassed in real life.
This is a game I agree, but don't think what happens on the game necessarily stays in the game. Should respect to your fellow players, have fun but don't harass.
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?
From my time in the forums @VaranisArano has been a pretty respected and solid pillar of the community. Guess everyone has a bad day every once and a while.
Yeah, sometimes @VaranisArano posts helpful information quoting from the company and people who feel like they disagree with those statements decide to go on about how their inability to comprehend a statement means the statement is somehow not valid in the way it was presented
stuff like that can be a bad day for anyone; make an honest effort to provide factual information only to be met with skepticism
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?
From my time in the forums @VaranisArano has been a pretty respected and solid pillar of the community. Guess everyone has a bad day every once and a while.
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine going to the trouble of providing sources only for the people who asked for them to either not read them or move the goalposts about exactly what sources they require to be convinced.
As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Genuinely quoting a random quote as if it shares any context here is peak performance. Salary has quite literally nothing to do with anything regarding a topic about mudball harrasment in a video game. Unless you're trying to imply I'm either stupid or make less money than you do. Both of which is pretty insulting tbh.
I've read your sources. They don't say anything about mudballing being considered harassment.
Tell me, if I ask a player to stop standing in a specific location and they don't move. Would that also be considered harassment? They're invading my personal space.
What if I told a player to give me a specific piece of loot from a dungeon? Is them not listening to me or ignoring me not a form of harassment? They ignored what I said.
If we say that throwing a mudball when told not to, an emote the devs designed themselves, is a form of harassment. What is stopping us from saying all of these other things?
From my time in the forums @VaranisArano has been a pretty respected and solid pillar of the community. Guess everyone has a bad day every once and a while.
Yeah, sometimes @VaranisArano posts helpful information quoting from the company and people who feel like they disagree with those statements decide to go on about how their inability to comprehend a statement means the statement is somehow not valid in the way it was presented
stuff like that can be a bad day for anyone; make an honest effort to provide factual information only to be met with skepticism
at least we can all agree it isn't as bad of a day as getting mudball'd repeatedly on ESO.
That truly makes for the worst of days judging by the people here.
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
It's not about my beliefs in this case, it's about my experiences moderating for a gaming company in a corporate setting and the positions of the upper management in those instances
it is viewed as much less of a loss to get rid of a single toxic player than to lose the multiple players that report them
can comprehend that you have a lot of personal feelings or beliefs about why you may not agree with such business practices, am not really interested in those so much as the facts of what ZOS position has been expressed to be
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
ZeniMax Media is part of Microsoft now. So, speaking as a stockholder, I’m of the opinion that people who agree to abide by the ToS and CoC should abide by them.
In the meantime, did you actually follow that link and read Gina’s post that “spamming emotes is fine, although if someone asks you to please stop, you should stop”? Sounds like it covers emotes to me.
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
ZeniMax Media is part of Microsoft now. So, speaking as a stockholder, I’m of the opinion that people who agree to abide by the ToS and CoC should abide by them.
In the meantime, did you actually follow that link and read Gina’s post that “spamming emotes is fine, although if someone asks you to please stop, you should stop”? Sounds like it covers emotes to me.
Rootmender_Inky wrote: »As an Argonian, I mudball lots of people.
First, good for your dryskin.
Second, MOISTURE is good for you, makes scales shiny
Third, *Throws Mudball and runs*
Please dont spoil the fun of mudballing people just because you got butthurt about people doing it to you. Simply ignore the person or change instance.
Seems like a petty thing to ask, and you dont see the other sides perspective. Did the Mudballers killed you? Did they steal from you or caused harm in any way? No, you got offended with another human interacting with you.
Also, I know it can be frustrating when you ask people to stop and they dont do so. People are like that, and don't ruin it for the rest of us just because YOU had a bad experience. As I said, change zone, instance, or simply mudball them back.
Hist guide you Beeko
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
ZeniMax Media is part of Microsoft now. So, speaking as a stockholder, I’m of the opinion that people who agree to abide by the ToS and CoC should abide by them.
In the meantime, did you actually follow that link and read Gina’s post that “spamming emotes is fine, although if someone asks you to please stop, you should stop”? Sounds like it covers emotes to me.
Gina making an off-hand comment about 'you should stop' doesn't really mean much. If she added a 'or disciplinary action will be taken' at the end of it, I'd agree fully.
But her just saying that doesn't necessarily mean it's something that is punishable.
And again, if the emote has a chance of breaking the ToS why is it even in the game in the first place then? Coming from a stockholder position, it'd make a lot more sense to simply remove the emote entirely.
Rootmender_Inky wrote: »As an Argonian, I mudball lots of people.
First, good for your dryskin.
Second, MOISTURE is good for you, makes scales shiny
Third, *Throws Mudball and runs*
Please dont spoil the fun of mudballing people just because you got butthurt about people doing it to you. Simply ignore the person or change instance.
Seems like a petty thing to ask, and you dont see the other sides perspective. Did the Mudballers killed you? Did they steal from you or caused harm in any way? No, you got offended with another human interacting with you.
Also, I know it can be frustrating when you ask people to stop and they dont do so. People are like that, and don't ruin it for the rest of us just because YOU had a bad experience. As I said, change zone, instance, or simply mudball them back.
Hist guide you Beeko
I'm sorry but OP is not the problem and I doubt ZOS is going to stop mudballing totally because a few people don't know how to behave and think harassment is okay. Yes continuing doing something to someone after they told you to stop is harassment. OP did all they should have to to stop this person, which is tell them to stop it. If any consequences comes to them or to the community as a whole because they chose to harass OP that is their fault, not OP's. If you have a problem, take it up with the people like the harasser who haven't been taught basic manners and decency.
WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »There was no verbal or physical harassment, Gina said that that player 'should stop' not have to stop.
I'm going to quote the part of Gina's post that doesn't agree with you; "As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop."
So there was no verbal or physical harassment, but since the player was asked to stop amd didn't, there absolutely was harassment, according to Gina. Perhaps you missed that part of her followup to the Discord post?
Not going to argue with you over a mudball. It is not harassment in any way. Period. if ZoS decides to classify it as harassments they will be setting up a very unhealthy precedent. Everything in the game that players can interact with will come into subject. Watch what you wish for.
you forgot to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno to ask her to personally clarify if when she previously stated all forms of harassment she meant all forms of harassment, or if she means all forms of harassment except this one
you mean all forms of harassment that the devs didn't specifically program into the game?
Like, let's just be honest here, if the mudball thing was an actual issue ZoS would have removed it by now. It's pretty simple.
Mudballs are not an issue when they are not used to harass people
somehow you equate "people should not be allowed to harass others" with "people should not be allowed to throw mudballs at anyone ever"
despite your narrative, that is not the case; plenty of people find mudballs fun and plenty of people do not use them to harass others
a small toxic minority of players will use any means necessary to harass others tho, and it is much better for ZOS to remove those players than remove decent systems that are otherwise fun
You genuinely believe that it's a better business practice for ZoS to LOSE customers than to remove an emote or just simply do what they are doing now: nothing at all?
That's..... uh.... kind of a yikes take, tbh. I don't think the ZoS stockholders would appreciate knowing they're losing out on money and revenue because some people can't handle a mudball spam now and then.
See, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.
It's a very slippery slope to go down and I don't think anyone here would like the destination.
It's not about my beliefs in this case, it's about my experiences moderating for a gaming company in a corporate setting and the positions of the upper management in those instances
it is viewed as much less of a loss to get rid of a single toxic player than to lose the multiple players that report them
can comprehend that you have a lot of personal feelings or beliefs about why you may not agree with such business practices, am not really interested in those so much as the facts of what ZOS position has been expressed to be
Right, but here's the thing with your first bit of experience there. People like OP won't be lost to the game or company because they will NEVER see the mudballer again or remember their name.
So, they can either choose to not lose a thing or to get rid of a potentially very high paying customer just because of an emote the devs created. At that point with my experience in corporate, if the feature is deemed to lead to extremely toxic behavior then it should be removed or at the very least be given an option to turn off by clicking ignore on the player.
But, it also isn't a reportable thing because it's a feature the devs implemented.
which is simply not true and demonstrates that you are not thinking of this issue from the perspective of the gaming company but instead from the perspective of a gamer defending player toxicitySee, another issue with your statement is: When does "throwing a mudball at anyone ever" become 'harassment'? Technically speaking, you could report someone for throwing a mudball at you once and then they ran off. ZoS would be none the wiser.