furiouslog wrote: »You earned the experience for the cp you have now. Can you or someone please give a legitimate reasoning for why you think you earned more cp than you already have without doing any work? Because I still haven't seen a good argument for it
I could give you the wage analogy, or the vma weapons analogy, but we all know it'll just be another argument trying to convince us it is wrong, even though it is the same exact thing.
I think I've provided a good argument, but you'll have to go back a few posts and check it out.
furiouslog wrote: »You earned the experience for the cp you have now. Can you or someone please give a legitimate reasoning for why you think you earned more cp than you already have without doing any work? Because I still haven't seen a good argument for it
I could give you the wage analogy, or the vma weapons analogy, but we all know it'll just be another argument trying to convince us it is wrong, even though it is the same exact thing.
I think I've provided a good argument, but you'll have to go back a few posts and check it out.
No, I don't think you did, otherwise I wouldn't have repeated these facts.
furiouslog wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »
They didn't do this when they increased the max to 810. Why would they do it now?
Are you also saying to give 360 CP to people with 500 CP? Because I assume that even they were acquiring CP at a slower rate that they will after the update. Every time they increased the CP cap, it moved the curve of XP needed to acquire CP. Obviously we should not give such a boost to those of us with 810+ CP while not giving it to someone with 500 CP who also had slower CP accumulation pre-patch.
I am suspicious of anyone only talking about what boon can be given to 810+ CP players.
I don't want a boon, per se, although I think CP earned should stay earned. I just don't want a detriment.
Me neither; I wasn't after a boon, I wasn't asking to be awarded unearned experience, I wanted my legitimately accrued experience to apply to the heavily revised requirements.
Alas according to the developers the experience I have accrued over the past few years is somehow lesser in quality than the one that will be awarded moving forward thus needing significantly more of it to qualify for the same [CP].
But you are absolutely asking for unearned experience.
I really have no idea how you reach that conclusion. I qualify for the CP I have because I have earned the experience required to qualify for the CP I have.
Care to elaborate?
You earned the experience for the cp you have now. Can you or someone please give a legitimate reasoning for why you think you earned more cp than you already have without doing any work? Because I still haven't seen a good argument for it
I could give you the wage analogy, or the vma weapons analogy, but we all know it'll just be another argument trying to convince us it is wrong, even though it is the same exact thing.
furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »
Perhaps it’s better to think in the terms “end of life”. Every game seemingly has an EOL point where it all creatively ends. Maybe the game persists but development ends on it. Now who knows where we are in ESO’s finite life but each year we edge closer to the end.
That said there is no way you can attract new players if they can’t catch up to the current base. Sure the current base has played more and earned more but if things stay the same you have players that will never ever catch up to them.
Great point, but I have two counterpoints:
1. I don't think that nerfing veteran players existing stats and capabilities significantly in the name of closing the gap is equitable and fair to people who have already been supporting their game. It's too great of a cost with little benefit in extending EOL. In my case, under the example solution I provided, I'd get 1660 CP instead of 1300 CP. That's plenty of space for my characters o grow, and it does not put me so far ahead of new players that they can't catch up under the new XP curve. I still would have spent more XP to get to that level then they will.
2. The game is more popular than it's ever been (part of the reason they are probably improving accessibility - check Steamcharts), which is encouraging for EOL - and an additional reason why fully invested players who obviously want to continue playing should not get nerfed, especially given the amount of horizontal progression currently available to them and possibly in the future as they continue to make changes.
You made additional points about elitism. Sharing my experience, I agree, but the CP system won't fix that. A friend and I left an elitist guild and started our own with the intent of helping new players who wanted to progress move up and get to veteran content. We started almost a year ago, and we launched our first home-grown prog group last week, which is awesome. But, it's also a long time. I get that. Yet, if I wake up on Tuesday and can't do the same DPS and survive as well on my magplar anymore as a result of nerfs, I'm not going to want to have to grind for weeks to get where I was. It's a disincentive to stay and keep doing what I do. Some people on my team will have it a lot worse given their current CP, which makes it harder to clear when it's already challenging as is. Does that make sense?
trackdemon5512 wrote: »
1. The nerf to player stats is all around, not just to veterans. The DPS has gotten out of control with straight burn and the complete ignoring of mechanics in PVE. There are unintentional design exploits that result in increased damage (usually overlooked sets for a patch) and then there are those that creep up. The latter was exemplified by the flaws of CP1.0 at higher levels and is precisely why the cap hasn’t changed in 2.25 years.
trackdemon5512 wrote: »
2. Yes the game is arguably more popular than ever BUT gaining new players isn’t as important as active retention. New players are a dime a dozen, ask any bot farmer. But players that stay in, add to the community, engage, and most importantly for ZOS subscribe to ESO+ are far far more important. They drive the revenue (and I’m guessing profits) that keep this game going.
furiouslog wrote: »So shouldn't they be trying to retain me as well? I'm in that cohort. I'm unhappy. What's being done about my retention?
i tested 36 differents profiles for my 810cp characters, and i need 350-400cp per tree so 1200cp total to be in the same spot as i was before...
for 10 of my accounts i need 1800cp, those are filling 2 roles, either dps heal or tank... and were spec to do good at those 2 roles... not excellent but good... ya sure i could reallocated my cp each time but at a cost
i already earned the experience to be over 1200cp... according to the new curve... and could be exactly where i want to be at day 1 on 26 of my accounts, if they reconsider xp for vets payed at quadruple cost... or readjustment of the curved by 25% or simple lower cost of each skills lines by 33% before this goes lives...
ive played over 100hours on the pts in last 4 weeks... so i am not throwing up stuff in the air just for fun...
its a vMA 2.0 fiasco in even worst
and since we are limited to 4 perks, per three, having 2400 or 1200 cp won't increase your dps overall so we should not be penalized...
i can't redo all the quest line ive done to rearn those xp lost... so for me its grind all over again... or delete toons and start over...
please reset all quest so we can do them again
or compensate us for the new curved and all those hard earned extra cp cost past 810
and at least
free respect for a year
and 2 race changes token per 8 character you have
or a free 3 months races changes token
end billing done on 2 accounts
thanks ZOS for the journey
trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »So shouldn't they be trying to retain me as well? I'm in that cohort. I'm unhappy. What's being done about my retention?
@furiouslog
Well the hard truth comes down to a numbers game. You are ONE versus the MANY. You've surpassed a point where your technical expertise and knowledge of the game far outmatches other players. But at the same time what is the cost of keeping one (or the few like you) happy versus the larger numbers. You can pay for ESO+ and buy crowns but your buying power is always drastically outmatched by those of the many others.
If I bought a year membership and 21000 crowns that comes out to $300 US. If you quit ZOS loses out on at least $15 a month.
Now compare that to 20 other players who are more casual and do a single month subscription to ESO. In one month they match your yearly amount. In two months they double that. Now expand that to the millions of active account and potential accounts and you can easily see that you may be a large fish but your in an ocean and not a pond, there are plenty of ways to make up your loss.
This is why most game companies won't even chase after twitch streaming stars. Yes they provide publicity but there are plenty of others out there to take up and make up. Deltia left ESO for years after I believe a funeral for their Templar, only coming back to dip their toe this past pts. The game didn't die and easily moved beyond.
It just comes down to that addressing your unhappiness isn't worth not addressing the unhappiness of others.
trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »
Perhaps it’s better to think in the terms “end of life”. Every game seemingly has an EOL point where it all creatively ends. Maybe the game persists but development ends on it. Now who knows where we are in ESO’s finite life but each year we edge closer to the end.
That said there is no way you can attract new players if they can’t catch up to the current base. Sure the current base has played more and earned more but if things stay the same you have players that will never ever catch up to them.
Great point, but I have two counterpoints:
1. I don't think that nerfing veteran players existing stats and capabilities significantly in the name of closing the gap is equitable and fair to people who have already been supporting their game. It's too great of a cost with little benefit in extending EOL. In my case, under the example solution I provided, I'd get 1660 CP instead of 1300 CP. That's plenty of space for my characters o grow, and it does not put me so far ahead of new players that they can't catch up under the new XP curve. I still would have spent more XP to get to that level then they will.
2. The game is more popular than it's ever been (part of the reason they are probably improving accessibility - check Steamcharts), which is encouraging for EOL - and an additional reason why fully invested players who obviously want to continue playing should not get nerfed, especially given the amount of horizontal progression currently available to them and possibly in the future as they continue to make changes.
You made additional points about elitism. Sharing my experience, I agree, but the CP system won't fix that. A friend and I left an elitist guild and started our own with the intent of helping new players who wanted to progress move up and get to veteran content. We started almost a year ago, and we launched our first home-grown prog group last week, which is awesome. But, it's also a long time. I get that. Yet, if I wake up on Tuesday and can't do the same DPS and survive as well on my magplar anymore as a result of nerfs, I'm not going to want to have to grind for weeks to get where I was. It's a disincentive to stay and keep doing what I do. Some people on my team will have it a lot worse given their current CP, which makes it harder to clear when it's already challenging as is. Does that make sense?
2. Yes the game is arguably more popular than ever BUT gaining new players isn’t as important as active retention. New players are a dime a dozen, ask any bot farmer. But players that stay in, add to the community, engage, and most importantly for ZOS subscribe to ESO+ are far far more important. They drive the revenue (and I’m guessing profits) that keep this game going.
trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »
Perhaps it’s better to think in the terms “end of life”. Every game seemingly has an EOL point where it all creatively ends. Maybe the game persists but development ends on it. Now who knows where we are in ESO’s finite life but each year we edge closer to the end.
That said there is no way you can attract new players if they can’t catch up to the current base. Sure the current base has played more and earned more but if things stay the same you have players that will never ever catch up to them.
Great point, but I have two counterpoints:
1. I don't think that nerfing veteran players existing stats and capabilities significantly in the name of closing the gap is equitable and fair to people who have already been supporting their game. It's too great of a cost with little benefit in extending EOL. In my case, under the example solution I provided, I'd get 1660 CP instead of 1300 CP. That's plenty of space for my characters o grow, and it does not put me so far ahead of new players that they can't catch up under the new XP curve. I still would have spent more XP to get to that level then they will.
2. The game is more popular than it's ever been (part of the reason they are probably improving accessibility - check Steamcharts), which is encouraging for EOL - and an additional reason why fully invested players who obviously want to continue playing should not get nerfed, especially given the amount of horizontal progression currently available to them and possibly in the future as they continue to make changes.
You made additional points about elitism. Sharing my experience, I agree, but the CP system won't fix that. A friend and I left an elitist guild and started our own with the intent of helping new players who wanted to progress move up and get to veteran content. We started almost a year ago, and we launched our first home-grown prog group last week, which is awesome. But, it's also a long time. I get that. Yet, if I wake up on Tuesday and can't do the same DPS and survive as well on my magplar anymore as a result of nerfs, I'm not going to want to have to grind for weeks to get where I was. It's a disincentive to stay and keep doing what I do. Some people on my team will have it a lot worse given their current CP, which makes it harder to clear when it's already challenging as is. Does that make sense?
2. Yes the game is arguably more popular than ever BUT gaining new players isn’t as important as active retention. New players are a dime a dozen, ask any bot farmer. But players that stay in, add to the community, engage, and most importantly for ZOS subscribe to ESO+ are far far more important. They drive the revenue (and I’m guessing profits) that keep this game going.
no cp scaling lead me to cancel eso+...
trackdemon5512 wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »
Perhaps it’s better to think in the terms “end of life”. Every game seemingly has an EOL point where it all creatively ends. Maybe the game persists but development ends on it. Now who knows where we are in ESO’s finite life but each year we edge closer to the end.
That said there is no way you can attract new players if they can’t catch up to the current base. Sure the current base has played more and earned more but if things stay the same you have players that will never ever catch up to them.
Great point, but I have two counterpoints:
1. I don't think that nerfing veteran players existing stats and capabilities significantly in the name of closing the gap is equitable and fair to people who have already been supporting their game. It's too great of a cost with little benefit in extending EOL. In my case, under the example solution I provided, I'd get 1660 CP instead of 1300 CP. That's plenty of space for my characters o grow, and it does not put me so far ahead of new players that they can't catch up under the new XP curve. I still would have spent more XP to get to that level then they will.
2. The game is more popular than it's ever been (part of the reason they are probably improving accessibility - check Steamcharts), which is encouraging for EOL - and an additional reason why fully invested players who obviously want to continue playing should not get nerfed, especially given the amount of horizontal progression currently available to them and possibly in the future as they continue to make changes.
You made additional points about elitism. Sharing my experience, I agree, but the CP system won't fix that. A friend and I left an elitist guild and started our own with the intent of helping new players who wanted to progress move up and get to veteran content. We started almost a year ago, and we launched our first home-grown prog group last week, which is awesome. But, it's also a long time. I get that. Yet, if I wake up on Tuesday and can't do the same DPS and survive as well on my magplar anymore as a result of nerfs, I'm not going to want to have to grind for weeks to get where I was. It's a disincentive to stay and keep doing what I do. Some people on my team will have it a lot worse given their current CP, which makes it harder to clear when it's already challenging as is. Does that make sense?
2. Yes the game is arguably more popular than ever BUT gaining new players isn’t as important as active retention. New players are a dime a dozen, ask any bot farmer. But players that stay in, add to the community, engage, and most importantly for ZOS subscribe to ESO+ are far far more important. They drive the revenue (and I’m guessing profits) that keep this game going.
no cp scaling lead me to cancel eso+...
I mean you're asking the developers to create an entirely new system by which to equate XP to new CP or bump up CP on every account by a unique percentage to each individual.
A system that would need extensive testing. A system that if it screws up more likely than not can wipe your CP amounts from the database. A system that if it does work would drive customer service crazy with requests saying that individuals should have a different CP than what they see.
And a process that is rendered completely meaningless because your CP number, which never is to decrease, doesn't dictate your power level. What does dictate that power is how the developers assign points and values to CP stars and constellations that literally change from patch to patch.
What you're saying is that asking the developers to needlessly waste their time led you to cancel ESO+ rather than them catering to a very select few who are vocal on a Public Test Server message board.
honey_badger82 wrote: »I have been building up my enlightenment for almost 2 weeks now just logging into my CP level characters just to do crafting writs and collect mail from hirelings. I used the rest of my time to bring up my last 2 characters to CP level.
Anyone know if at least all that built up enlightenment will transfer over? I was hoping it would and because of the new xp curve that it would go much further than right now, I am around 935 currently so well past any curve on live.
trackdemon5512 wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »
Perhaps it’s better to think in the terms “end of life”. Every game seemingly has an EOL point where it all creatively ends. Maybe the game persists but development ends on it. Now who knows where we are in ESO’s finite life but each year we edge closer to the end.
That said there is no way you can attract new players if they can’t catch up to the current base. Sure the current base has played more and earned more but if things stay the same you have players that will never ever catch up to them.
Great point, but I have two counterpoints:
1. I don't think that nerfing veteran players existing stats and capabilities significantly in the name of closing the gap is equitable and fair to people who have already been supporting their game. It's too great of a cost with little benefit in extending EOL. In my case, under the example solution I provided, I'd get 1660 CP instead of 1300 CP. That's plenty of space for my characters o grow, and it does not put me so far ahead of new players that they can't catch up under the new XP curve. I still would have spent more XP to get to that level then they will.
2. The game is more popular than it's ever been (part of the reason they are probably improving accessibility - check Steamcharts), which is encouraging for EOL - and an additional reason why fully invested players who obviously want to continue playing should not get nerfed, especially given the amount of horizontal progression currently available to them and possibly in the future as they continue to make changes.
You made additional points about elitism. Sharing my experience, I agree, but the CP system won't fix that. A friend and I left an elitist guild and started our own with the intent of helping new players who wanted to progress move up and get to veteran content. We started almost a year ago, and we launched our first home-grown prog group last week, which is awesome. But, it's also a long time. I get that. Yet, if I wake up on Tuesday and can't do the same DPS and survive as well on my magplar anymore as a result of nerfs, I'm not going to want to have to grind for weeks to get where I was. It's a disincentive to stay and keep doing what I do. Some people on my team will have it a lot worse given their current CP, which makes it harder to clear when it's already challenging as is. Does that make sense?
2. Yes the game is arguably more popular than ever BUT gaining new players isn’t as important as active retention. New players are a dime a dozen, ask any bot farmer. But players that stay in, add to the community, engage, and most importantly for ZOS subscribe to ESO+ are far far more important. They drive the revenue (and I’m guessing profits) that keep this game going.
no cp scaling lead me to cancel eso+...
I mean you're asking the developers to create an entirely new system by which to equate XP to new CP or bump up CP on every account by a unique percentage to each individual.
A system that would need extensive testing. A system that if it screws up more likely than not can wipe your CP amounts from the database. A system that if it does work would drive customer service crazy with requests saying that individuals should have a different CP than what they see.
And a process that is rendered completely meaningless because your CP number, which never is to decrease, doesn't dictate your power level. What does dictate that power is how the developers assign points and values to CP stars and constellations that literally change from patch to patch.
What you're saying is that asking the developers to needlessly waste their time led you to cancel ESO+ rather than them catering to a very select few who are vocal on a Public Test Server message board.
jesus.. it's a one off, offline, isolated db script that runs during downtime. all it does is run through acounts. read a couple of numbers. do a coyple of trivial computations. and write back a couple different numbers.
peanuts.
it's written and tested on a testdb in a couple hours.
Disclaimer: writing such one-off db scripts is part of my job.
honey_badger82 wrote: »I have been building up my enlightenment for almost 2 weeks now just logging into my CP level characters just to do crafting writs and collect mail from hirelings. I used the rest of my time to bring up my last 2 characters to CP level.
Anyone know if at least all that built up enlightenment will transfer over? I was hoping it would and because of the new xp curve that it would go much further than right now, I am around 935 currently so well past any curve on live.
trackdemon5512 wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »
Perhaps it’s better to think in the terms “end of life”. Every game seemingly has an EOL point where it all creatively ends. Maybe the game persists but development ends on it. Now who knows where we are in ESO’s finite life but each year we edge closer to the end.
That said there is no way you can attract new players if they can’t catch up to the current base. Sure the current base has played more and earned more but if things stay the same you have players that will never ever catch up to them.
Great point, but I have two counterpoints:
1. I don't think that nerfing veteran players existing stats and capabilities significantly in the name of closing the gap is equitable and fair to people who have already been supporting their game. It's too great of a cost with little benefit in extending EOL. In my case, under the example solution I provided, I'd get 1660 CP instead of 1300 CP. That's plenty of space for my characters o grow, and it does not put me so far ahead of new players that they can't catch up under the new XP curve. I still would have spent more XP to get to that level then they will.
2. The game is more popular than it's ever been (part of the reason they are probably improving accessibility - check Steamcharts), which is encouraging for EOL - and an additional reason why fully invested players who obviously want to continue playing should not get nerfed, especially given the amount of horizontal progression currently available to them and possibly in the future as they continue to make changes.
You made additional points about elitism. Sharing my experience, I agree, but the CP system won't fix that. A friend and I left an elitist guild and started our own with the intent of helping new players who wanted to progress move up and get to veteran content. We started almost a year ago, and we launched our first home-grown prog group last week, which is awesome. But, it's also a long time. I get that. Yet, if I wake up on Tuesday and can't do the same DPS and survive as well on my magplar anymore as a result of nerfs, I'm not going to want to have to grind for weeks to get where I was. It's a disincentive to stay and keep doing what I do. Some people on my team will have it a lot worse given their current CP, which makes it harder to clear when it's already challenging as is. Does that make sense?
2. Yes the game is arguably more popular than ever BUT gaining new players isn’t as important as active retention. New players are a dime a dozen, ask any bot farmer. But players that stay in, add to the community, engage, and most importantly for ZOS subscribe to ESO+ are far far more important. They drive the revenue (and I’m guessing profits) that keep this game going.
no cp scaling lead me to cancel eso+...
I mean you're asking the developers to create an entirely new system by which to equate XP to new CP or bump up CP on every account by a unique percentage to each individual.
A system that would need extensive testing. A system that if it screws up more likely than not can wipe your CP amounts from the database. A system that if it does work would drive customer service crazy with requests saying that individuals should have a different CP than what they see.
And a process that is rendered completely meaningless because your CP number, which never is to decrease, doesn't dictate your power level. What does dictate that power is how the developers assign points and values to CP stars and constellations that literally change from patch to patch.
What you're saying is that asking the developers to needlessly waste their time led you to cancel ESO+ rather than them catering to a very select few who are vocal on a Public Test Server message board.
jesus.. it's a one off, offline, isolated db script that runs during downtime. all it does is run through acounts. read a couple of numbers. do a coyple of trivial computations. and write back a couple different numbers.
peanuts.
it's written and tested on a testdb in a couple hours.
Disclaimer: writing such one-off db scripts is part of my job.
A simple script in a game whose engine and assets are as buggy as this one can have dire consequences. Recall what happened with World of Warcraft almost two years ago when they wrote a script to automate a leveling task previously done manually.
https://kotaku.com/blizzard-is-sorry-world-of-warcraft-patch-8-0-messed-up-1827735593
With the max CP being set at 3600, it means that in order to fill out everything in each tree will require 1200 CP points.
furiouslog wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »
They didn't do this when they increased the max to 810. Why would they do it now?
Are you also saying to give 360 CP to people with 500 CP? Because I assume that even they were acquiring CP at a slower rate that they will after the update. Every time they increased the CP cap, it moved the curve of XP needed to acquire CP. Obviously we should not give such a boost to those of us with 810+ CP while not giving it to someone with 500 CP who also had slower CP accumulation pre-patch.
I am suspicious of anyone only talking about what boon can be given to 810+ CP players.
I don't want a boon, per se, although I think CP earned should stay earned. I just don't want a detriment.
Me neither; I wasn't after a boon, I wasn't asking to be awarded unearned experience, I wanted my legitimately accrued experience to apply to the heavily revised requirements.
Alas according to the developers the experience I have accrued over the past few years is somehow lesser in quality than the one that will be awarded moving forward thus needing significantly more of it to qualify for the same [CP].
But you are absolutely asking for unearned experience.
I really have no idea how you reach that conclusion. I qualify for the CP I have because I have earned the experience required to qualify for the CP I have.
Care to elaborate?
You earned the experience for the cp you have now. Can you or someone please give a legitimate reasoning for why you think you earned more cp than you already have without doing any work? Because I still haven't seen a good argument for it
I could give you the wage analogy, or the vma weapons analogy, but we all know it'll just be another argument trying to convince us it is wrong, even though it is the same exact thing.
If you want to make a 'real world' analogy to illustrate your point you could try one with experience.
As in the experience required to get chartered as a civil engineer, or to get offered a partnership on a legal firm for instance.
There are many 'real world' scenarios where you need 'x' experience to qualify for 'y'.
Either way I have accrued exactly the amount of experience required to qualify for my current CP, no more, no less.
Come Monday that amount of experience would qualify someone for a significantly higher CP yet I will remain exactly the same CP I am today.
Hence saying that according to the developers the experience I have accrued until this point is of significantly lesser quality than the experience that will be awarded from Monday on.
I have been playing since the game released. My ESO+ sub has never lapsed. To date I have accumulated 1449 CP points, that divided by 3 for each tree equals 483 points. With the max CP being set at 3600, it means that in order to fill out everything in each tree will require 1200 CP points.
I am 70 years old and I play about 6 to 8 hours a day. At this rate I might actually never see 3600 CP points. I have no intention of grinding my life away so I can say I have X number of CP points. There have been a lot of changes over the years to the game and I seem to have adapted to the changes without having lost my enjoyment in the game or the friends I play with.
With the upcoming changes it will be another time where I'll need to adapt to the changes and make the best of it. I guess I just have a different perspective at this age, but the game is my entertainment and it comes at a really cheap price of 50 cents a day for the sub. I think I am getting more than my monies worth. Of course others value may vary.
honey_badger82 wrote: »I have been building up my enlightenment for almost 2 weeks now just logging into my CP level characters just to do crafting writs and collect mail from hirelings. I used the rest of my time to bring up my last 2 characters to CP level.
Anyone know if at least all that built up enlightenment will transfer over? I was hoping it would and because of the new xp curve that it would go much further than right now, I am around 935 currently so well past any curve on live.
bloody hope so. am on target for 4.8M when servers come back. cp810-1800 enlightenment will be worth 3x in CP.
but i don't put it beyond them to just wipe enlightenment too for no good reason.
honey_badger82 wrote: »I have been building up my enlightenment for almost 2 weeks now just logging into my CP level characters just to do crafting writs and collect mail from hirelings. I used the rest of my time to bring up my last 2 characters to CP level.
Anyone know if at least all that built up enlightenment will transfer over? I was hoping it would and because of the new xp curve that it would go much further than right now, I am around 935 currently so well past any curve on live.
There are no changes to enlightenment.
I have been playing since the game released. My ESO+ sub has never lapsed. To date I have accumulated 1449 CP points, that divided by 3 for each tree equals 483 points. With the max CP being set at 3600, it means that in order to fill out everything in each tree will require 1200 CP points.
I am 70 years old and I play about 6 to 8 hours a day. At this rate I might actually never see 3600 CP points. I have no intention of grinding my life away so I can say I have X number of CP points. There have been a lot of changes over the years to the game and I seem to have adapted to the changes without having lost my enjoyment in the game or the friends I play with.
With the upcoming changes it will be another time where I'll need to adapt to the changes and make the best of it. I guess I just have a different perspective at this age, but the game is my entertainment and it comes at a really cheap price of 50 cents a day for the sub. I think I am getting more than my monies worth. Of course others value may vary.
With the max CP being set at 3600, it means that in order to fill out everything in each tree will require 1200 CP points.
That’s no longer true. It is impossible to fill everything in each tree in 2.0, because it would take more than 1200 points. The new system seems designed to feel less like there is a definitive endpoint. It’s not “I get to 3600 and then I mindlessly take everything and I’m done.” There will always be choices to make and remake, which gives it a much more open-ended feel and places less emphasis on reaching 3600.
furiouslog wrote: »Wow. I kind of want to help you get to 3600 now, but I agree that 3600 does not equal enjoyment. It's not really bucket-list-worthy, either.
Out of curiosity, what do you enjoy about the game? For me, because I've done most everything apart from the harder vet trials and trifectas on DLC dungeons, a lot of what I do is just a backdrop to socialize in Discord, with a 50/50 mix of PVE and PVP stuff. I probably play about 10-15 hours per week. Sometimes I throw chunks of time into housing.
trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »
Perhaps it’s better to think in the terms “end of life”. Every game seemingly has an EOL point where it all creatively ends. Maybe the game persists but development ends on it. Now who knows where we are in ESO’s finite life but each year we edge closer to the end.
That said there is no way you can attract new players if they can’t catch up to the current base. Sure the current base has played more and earned more but if things stay the same you have players that will never ever catch up to them.
Great point, but I have two counterpoints:
1. I don't think that nerfing veteran players existing stats and capabilities significantly in the name of closing the gap is equitable and fair to people who have already been supporting their game. It's too great of a cost with little benefit in extending EOL. In my case, under the example solution I provided, I'd get 1660 CP instead of 1300 CP. That's plenty of space for my characters o grow, and it does not put me so far ahead of new players that they can't catch up under the new XP curve. I still would have spent more XP to get to that level then they will.
2. The game is more popular than it's ever been (part of the reason they are probably improving accessibility - check Steamcharts), which is encouraging for EOL - and an additional reason why fully invested players who obviously want to continue playing should not get nerfed, especially given the amount of horizontal progression currently available to them and possibly in the future as they continue to make changes.
You made additional points about elitism. Sharing my experience, I agree, but the CP system won't fix that. A friend and I left an elitist guild and started our own with the intent of helping new players who wanted to progress move up and get to veteran content. We started almost a year ago, and we launched our first home-grown prog group last week, which is awesome. But, it's also a long time. I get that. Yet, if I wake up on Tuesday and can't do the same DPS and survive as well on my magplar anymore as a result of nerfs, I'm not going to want to have to grind for weeks to get where I was. It's a disincentive to stay and keep doing what I do. Some people on my team will have it a lot worse given their current CP, which makes it harder to clear when it's already challenging as is. Does that make sense?
1. The nerf to player stats is all around, not just to veterans. The DPS has gotten out of control with straight burn and the complete ignoring of mechanics in PVE. There are unintentional design exploits that result in increased damage (usually overlooked sets for a patch) and then there are those that creep up. The latter was exemplified by the flaws of CP1.0 at higher levels and is precisely why the cap hasn’t changed in 2.25 years.
The developers aren’t just nerfing you to close gaps between players, they’re doing so because it’s hampering their ability to actually design the game. You can’t develop new experiences and have the bypassed every DLC with players doing insane damage. What else are they to do when those same players complain that the game isn’t a challenge and that one-shot mechanics aren’t fair? The veteran players have to give in order for everyone else, including the devs, to move forward.
2. Yes the game is arguably more popular than ever BUT gaining new players isn’t as important as active retention. New players are a dime a dozen, ask any bot farmer. But players that stay in, add to the community, engage, and most importantly for ZOS subscribe to ESO+ are far far more important. They drive the revenue (and I’m guessing profits) that keep this game going.
Whales exist and are important financially but the cumulative impact of those non-endgame casual players far far exceeds what those whales are capable of. This is precisely why instead of a new class/race the game is getting “companions” this year. It’s about abolishing inequality.
trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »
Perhaps it’s better to think in the terms “end of life”. Every game seemingly has an EOL point where it all creatively ends. Maybe the game persists but development ends on it. Now who knows where we are in ESO’s finite life but each year we edge closer to the end.
That said there is no way you can attract new players if they can’t catch up to the current base. Sure the current base has played more and earned more but if things stay the same you have players that will never ever catch up to them.
Great point, but I have two counterpoints:
1. I don't think that nerfing veteran players existing stats and capabilities significantly in the name of closing the gap is equitable and fair to people who have already been supporting their game. It's too great of a cost with little benefit in extending EOL. In my case, under the example solution I provided, I'd get 1660 CP instead of 1300 CP. That's plenty of space for my characters o grow, and it does not put me so far ahead of new players that they can't catch up under the new XP curve. I still would have spent more XP to get to that level then they will.
2. The game is more popular than it's ever been (part of the reason they are probably improving accessibility - check Steamcharts), which is encouraging for EOL - and an additional reason why fully invested players who obviously want to continue playing should not get nerfed, especially given the amount of horizontal progression currently available to them and possibly in the future as they continue to make changes.
You made additional points about elitism. Sharing my experience, I agree, but the CP system won't fix that. A friend and I left an elitist guild and started our own with the intent of helping new players who wanted to progress move up and get to veteran content. We started almost a year ago, and we launched our first home-grown prog group last week, which is awesome. But, it's also a long time. I get that. Yet, if I wake up on Tuesday and can't do the same DPS and survive as well on my magplar anymore as a result of nerfs, I'm not going to want to have to grind for weeks to get where I was. It's a disincentive to stay and keep doing what I do. Some people on my team will have it a lot worse given their current CP, which makes it harder to clear when it's already challenging as is. Does that make sense?
1. The nerf to player stats is all around, not just to veterans. The DPS has gotten out of control with straight burn and the complete ignoring of mechanics in PVE. There are unintentional design exploits that result in increased damage (usually overlooked sets for a patch) and then there are those that creep up. The latter was exemplified by the flaws of CP1.0 at higher levels and is precisely why the cap hasn’t changed in 2.25 years.
The developers aren’t just nerfing you to close gaps between players, they’re doing so because it’s hampering their ability to actually design the game. You can’t develop new experiences and have the bypassed every DLC with players doing insane damage. What else are they to do when those same players complain that the game isn’t a challenge and that one-shot mechanics aren’t fair? The veteran players have to give in order for everyone else, including the devs, to move forward.
2. Yes the game is arguably more popular than ever BUT gaining new players isn’t as important as active retention. New players are a dime a dozen, ask any bot farmer. But players that stay in, add to the community, engage, and most importantly for ZOS subscribe to ESO+ are far far more important. They drive the revenue (and I’m guessing profits) that keep this game going.
Whales exist and are important financially but the cumulative impact of those non-endgame casual players far far exceeds what those whales are capable of. This is precisely why instead of a new class/race the game is getting “companions” this year. It’s about abolishing inequality.
1. Since when the customers have to pay for the manufacturer's mistakes? Usually, the latter deal with it and begs pardon.
2. I am "player retention" material too. I started in closed beta. OF COURSE I am a position of advantage, it's the whole point of starting early, paying collector's editions and so on. So what? ESO is exactly doing what they did with Istaria: constantly screwing loyal players (I am loyal enough that I literally have the "loyal customer Tiger mount" !). What will they get? Exactly like in Istaria: the elder players see they are not "player retention" material and quit. And, in fact, I am exactly going to cancel my sub right now. I don't tolerate disrespect after I *FED* ZOS for 7 years. Istaria lost so many players due to this attitude that in the end they defaulted as a company and sold off for pennies.
3. Whales are the 20% (and below) of players who earn 80% of the money. No, it's not true AT ALL that new players bring in more cash than whales, no game shows this. New players come in, see a 2015 era MMO with stale mechanics. They play for free and don't feel attached or loyal at all. Loyalty is earned over years and it's loyal players who keep buying and collecting stuff. ZOS never worked very hard to keep loyal players to begin with and this move is not going to help that.