Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »I am kinda neutral on that. Almost all of my characters are non-meta. I did not race changed any of them back in Wrathstone and I still have unused tokens. Will I change them ? Definitely not, even if I had more tokens.
But, I clearly see why people who actually care about competitive gameplay (pvp, pve score runs etc.) can feel kinda "cheated". So ZOS could give some free tokens, just to avoid backlash or something. But as I stated before - I (personally) do not care much for chasing what is BiS & Meta.
Seraphayel wrote: »VoidCommander wrote: »I don’t know what it is you care about in the game, but clearly you don’t understand the effort that goes into making a solid endgame build if you so egregiously undervalue a player’s desire to have the proper race for their role.
Every race can fulfill every role to the amount that’s needed to succeed in every part of the game - from hardcore PvP to hardcore PvE and everything in between.
Your choice of race does matter on paper, it doesn’t matter in reality (e.g. in game). There’s no content that requires you to have a perfect race-group-setup to be successful. Every race is a proper race when it comes to game mechanics and the game itself. The issues solely exist in players‘ heads and, as I already said, on paper, in statistics, parses and metrics - luckily those things don’t make or break the game.
You're either dillusional or completely out of touch of the realities of this game. We've already had some of THE best players currently playing the game saying they will be race changing due to these changes.
You cannot stand up here and say passives mean nothing if you want to be the best you can be or get the acheivements you want, the only people making those comments are the one's resided to the fact they'll never be good enough to get them in the first place. (Feel free to prove me wrong, show us your flawless on an agonian, or stam brenton, or magic orc)
Some people care too much about numbers. I was never refused a place in a trial group based on my main character's race and class (khajiit stamblade). The only time someone told me to reroll an orc was when I couldn't break a 60k parse threshold, now I parse over 80k and still play a khajiit. My tank is a redguard, and I cleared vet DLC dungeon hardmodes on that toon. I never even considered playing a nord tank.
Kudos, top 10%, and I bet you have less than a 80ms ping. Well done, fell proud of yourself. You are far from a representation of the average player....
Seraphayel wrote: »Some people care too much about numbers. I was never refused a place in a trial group based on my main character's race and class (khajiit stamblade). The only time someone told me to reroll an orc was when I couldn't break a 60k parse threshold, now I parse over 80k and still play a khajiit. My tank is a redguard, and I cleared vet DLC dungeon hardmodes on that toon. I never even considered playing a nord tank.
Kudos, top 10%, and I bet you have less than a 80ms ping. Well done, fell proud of yourself. You are far from a representation of the average player....
Average players are exactly those that aren’t affected by the changes as their skill ceiling is not high enough to get any effect of marginal adjustments to racial passives.
MorganaBlue wrote: »I have to respec 3 Bretons and 2 Redguards which weren't the best races even before, and are are now utter trash.
Please include racial respec in the Heroes Reforged event perks ffs.
If the ploy is to sell race change tokens - it is a pepega approach.
I personally won't buy them- I'd rather make a new character and grind to 50, which we'll be able to do much faster with new patch anyway.
Why are breton and redguard trash in the in new patch? Werent those 2 races streight out buffed.
And why would grinding a char from 1 to 50 be faster?
Grinding a character from 1-50 is faster than grinding for the gold to get a race change if you don't want/can't spend real money to fill ZOS' coffers
Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »VoidCommander wrote: »I don’t know what it is you care about in the game, but clearly you don’t understand the effort that goes into making a solid endgame build if you so egregiously undervalue a player’s desire to have the proper race for their role.
Every race can fulfill every role to the amount that’s needed to succeed in every part of the game - from hardcore PvP to hardcore PvE and everything in between.
Your choice of race does matter on paper, it doesn’t matter in reality (e.g. in game). There’s no content that requires you to have a perfect race-group-setup to be successful. Every race is a proper race when it comes to game mechanics and the game itself. The issues solely exist in players‘ heads and, as I already said, on paper, in statistics, parses and metrics - luckily those things don’t make or break the game.
You're either dillusional or completely out of touch of the realities of this game. We've already had some of THE best players currently playing the game saying they will be race changing due to these changes.
You cannot stand up here and say passives mean nothing if you want to be the best you can be or get the acheivements you want, the only people making those comments are the one's resided to the fact they'll never be good enough to get them in the first place. (Feel free to prove me wrong, show us your flawless on an agonian, or stam brenton, or magic orc)
They’re race changing - ok, who cares? Those are the ones that don’t even need it because their skill ceiling is the 0.01% that almost nobody in this forum will ever achieve. They’re doing it for the sake of having the best parses on paper, they don’t do it because it’s required. It’s just the shtick of meta-players.
And again, you can be the best (on paper) if you want, just not at the cost of Zenimax. If you’re really striving for the last 1%, there are two options: level a new character or get a token out of the store. If it really is so important for you all, then spend the money or time.
No, no, you've got it all wrong - remember everyone, it's optional! You don't have to be a min-maxer to play the game. That is a choice you made. You don't have to play the game that way at all. You can just not buy it - therefore race change is optional. Charging customers a large sum of money for a race change instead of having an in-game mechanism to do this is okay, because it's optional.
...
*cough*
...
The above, effectively, is what a lot of us get told when we point out the problems with this game's monetization for other aspects of the game. From housing to mounts, costumes to motifs, this game has a monetization problem but we get told "but it's optional" as if that somehow means it isn't a problem. And while I could here smiling in smug satisfaction at "finally, maybe, more players will get what I've been going on about now that it's biting them," that's not my style. Because race change *should* be a base game feature accessible to everyone for in-game gold from an actual NPC (maybe even part of a quest!). So should appearance changes, name changes, alliance changes, outfit slots, pet-exclusive inventory space, cash-shop exclusive ultimate charge ups (yes, that's going to be a thing - it's in the patch notes), and on and on and on.
Once monetization is baked into a game's design, rarely is it relented. This rubbish has become normalized, in part because those who raise the alarm get told "but it's optional" or "but it's only cosmetic" or some other thoroughly debunked excuse that devalues the customer's time and money. This game has been sliding down the slope of unethical monetization ever since someone thought it was a brilliant idea to introduce gambling. Perhaps earlier, but that's when things started getting ridiculous.
Good luck getting any of this to change. The only advice I have is to be careful what you buy in the cash shop, carefully track your spending, and really ask yourself some hard questions about what things are really worth to you. If we're lucky, they'll release a mini-DLC that just gives people infinite race/appearance changes for a one-time cost. If we're really lucky, they'll just go "wait, this was scummy, here, have this as a base-game feature." Hell, I can dream, can't I? *sigh*
I'm just gonna borrow from something I wrote up in the PTS forum when someone raised questions about the ethics of all this:No, no, you've got it all wrong - remember everyone, it's optional! You don't have to be a min-maxer to play the game. That is a choice you made. You don't have to play the game that way at all. You can just not buy it - therefore race change is optional. Charging customers a large sum of money for a race change instead of having an in-game mechanism to do this is okay, because it's optional.
...
*cough*
...
The above, effectively, is what a lot of us get told when we point out the problems with this game's monetization for other aspects of the game. From housing to mounts, costumes to motifs, this game has a monetization problem but we get told "but it's optional" as if that somehow means it isn't a problem. And while I could here smiling in smug satisfaction at "finally, maybe, more players will get what I've been going on about now that it's biting them," that's not my style. Because race change *should* be a base game feature accessible to everyone for in-game gold from an actual NPC (maybe even part of a quest!). So should appearance changes, name changes, alliance changes, outfit slots, pet-exclusive inventory space, cash-shop exclusive ultimate charge ups (yes, that's going to be a thing - it's in the patch notes), and on and on and on.
Once monetization is baked into a game's design, rarely is it relented. This rubbish has become normalized, in part because those who raise the alarm get told "but it's optional" or "but it's only cosmetic" or some other thoroughly debunked excuse that devalues the customer's time and money. This game has been sliding down the slope of unethical monetization ever since someone thought it was a brilliant idea to introduce gambling. Perhaps earlier, but that's when things started getting ridiculous.
Good luck getting any of this to change. The only advice I have is to be careful what you buy in the cash shop, carefully track your spending, and really ask yourself some hard questions about what things are really worth to you. If we're lucky, they'll release a mini-DLC that just gives people infinite race/appearance changes for a one-time cost. If we're really lucky, they'll just go "wait, this was scummy, here, have this as a base-game feature." Hell, I can dream, can't I? *sigh*
All that said, I'm personally OK with them not handing out free race change tokens largely because I am hoping - very much hoping - they STOP making this a cash shop only feature in the first place. Where are the forerunners of the Riften face sculptor? Put him/her/zir in the game already!
All that said, I'm personally OK with them not handing out free race change tokens largely because I am hoping - very much hoping - they STOP making this a cash shop only feature in the first place.
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
All that said, I'm personally OK with them not handing out free race change tokens largely because I am hoping - very much hoping - they STOP making this a cash shop only feature in the first place.
You're right - they should remove race change from the cash shop. And not put it in the game anywhere, either. There's no reason (an no "I take the game Seriously™" isn't a reason. It's an absurdity.) to change your character's race. Make a new damn character if you want a different race, like we did for years & years before people started expecting all these stupid cash shop "change" functions.
edit: one of the biggest mistakes this game did was to put score/"leaderboards" on PvE content, infecting PvE with the whole ultra-competitiveness that's part of what makes PvP such a plague. Who the hell cares that your DPS is 1% higher than that other guy's, or that your team finished <dungeon> 3 seconds faster?
Araneae6537 wrote: »I very much agree with your write-up! And I agree that these shouldn’t be cash-shop only features, but the fact is that they are and I’ve not seen any evidence of their moving away from that, so I am puzzled why you use that as a reason to be okay with no tokens? I would think that on principle you would agree that ZOS should give players race and name change tokens if these changes aren’t going to be even temporarily accessible in game. Or is it because features that you do care about remain cash-shop only or worse, locked behind gamble crates?
Araneae6537 wrote: »I very much agree with your write-up! And I agree that these shouldn’t be cash-shop only features, but the fact is that they are and I’ve not seen any evidence of their moving away from that, so I am puzzled why you use that as a reason to be okay with no tokens? I would think that on principle you would agree that ZOS should give players race and name change tokens if these changes aren’t going to be even temporarily accessible in game. Or is it because features that you do care about remain cash-shop only or worse, locked behind gamble crates?
Sorry, I see how that could be confusing on that last paragraph there.
It's more a vain hope that they'll add an in-game way of doing race/appearance/name changes. And alliance changes, for that matter. It would have been really, really cool to have an in-game NPC or a quest to facilitate these.
Imagine how that would look for the alliance change. You'd have to go do some sort of small mission to prove your loyalty to the new alliance. Perhaps traveling to a small new zone where you steal plans from your alliance or sabotage their siege weapons?
Then I imagine how it would look for name/race/appearance change. We'd have the precursors of the face sculptor dwelling within the outlaw refuges of capitol cities. They could remake your face for a fee, or even your race. Name change would require them sending heralds all around tamriel and would be an extra gold charge. We could also maybe actually have actual salons instead if all you want to do is change your hair and hair color.
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »I can't imagine ever changing the race of my characters. The race is part of why I made them.
(Also, I'm used to things changing in MMOs. You just roll with it.
And certainly no-one is "forcing" people to pay for race changes. Other than they themselves.)
If you're an ESO+ member, use your free crowns. If you are not an ESO+ member, buy some. Sorted.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Not sure what the best relief is. My solution would be some sort of unlimited free race change, but only for a very short period of time after the new patch drops, any time racial passives are adjusted.
This is what, the third time they have done an overhaul in racial passives since launch?