I'm curious about the various opinions out there:
Do people feel we should get free race change tokens after any change to racial passives, or only when they reach a certain threshold? If the latter, where is the threshold for when free tokens are warranted?
Since I don't play any other MMOs, I wonder why race changes lead to calls for tokens whereas changing stats so (paid) DLC gear is much more attractive seems fairly widely accepted as the norm (Iceheart being a very notable exception, especially as the DLC alternative was never comparable). Isn't that a very similar mechanic in that there is an associated cost to follow meta as it changes?
For the racial changes, since they haven't been posted yet in this thread, see here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559360/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-0
The devs call these "slight adjustments." They do seem to be adjustments to the current bonuses, for the most part, rather than wholesale changes as we got before. ("Slight" will be subjective.) This is why I'm asking where people feel the threshold is for free race change tokens.
ETA: For comparison, here are the previous race changes that eventually merited 3 race change tokens per account:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21
The numbers were tweaked slightly in some cases, if I remember right, but just to give people a sense of the magnitude and quality of the changes.
Seraphayel wrote: »Just get over it. ZOS can’t offer you race change tokens every time they adjust the racial passives,
Seraphayel wrote: »Just get over it. ZOS can’t offer you race change tokens every time they adjust the racial passives,
Why?
It does not have material cost.
It does not have shipping cost
They already exist
It does not need many working hours.
Why can't they offer them every time they make racial changes in your opinion?
Seraphayel wrote: »Just get over it. ZOS can’t offer you race change tokens every time they adjust the racial passives, especially when the changes are rather minor like this time. You guys asking for tokens don’t even want one racial change token, you want one for every character or multiple tokens which - for me - reeks of entitlement.
I don’t understand these discussions either, the changes are so minimal and vary in a 1-2% range, at best, and still people keep changing races for the sake of changing races. And in the next patch when they are adjusted again they want to change again. This is really a bizarre way of playing a game.
Stick to and live with your choices. Don’t make choices based on numbers or minuscule changes. Choose and play the race you sympathize the most with, not the race you think (or better: are told by others) is the best.
No free race change tokens.
VoidCommander wrote: »There are thousands of orc characters in this game not because we all love roleplaying an ugly green tusk humanoid, but because it has good stamina dps passives. If it is significant enough for people to make that aesthetic sacrifice for more damage, then it is significant enough for zos to give back what they are taking from us, which is the meta racial passives we sought after in the first place!
Previously rebalancing of races was accompanied by 3 race change tokens per account, an action that the majority of the playerbase accepted as being fair last time.
Seraphayel wrote: »VoidCommander wrote: »There are thousands of orc characters in this game not because we all love roleplaying an ugly green tusk humanoid, but because it has good stamina dps passives. If it is significant enough for people to make that aesthetic sacrifice for more damage, then it is significant enough for zos to give back what they are taking from us, which is the meta racial passives we sought after in the first place!
This is exactly the problem. You’re choosing a race you aesthetically don’t like just for the perception to perform better. If you’re chasing the meta, live with the consequences, e.g. the volatility of said meta.
This is an MMORPG where changes happen on a frequent basis. You can live with the changes or you adjust to them. It’s not the responsibility of the game to pander to your imaginary needs of meta-chasing. That’s the way you chose for yourself - which is absolutely fine - but if you want to go that way, commit to it and don’t ask others to make it easier for you to stick to that path. What’s the saying? Go hard or go home.
And you’ve asked for numbers, so I’ll give you mine: 10% or more is for me a threshold that can be felt. A 1% difference is recognizable on paper, but you’ll never recognize it in game without using combat parses.
VoidCommander wrote: »I'm curious about the various opinions out there:
Do people feel we should get free race change tokens after any change to racial passives, or only when they reach a certain threshold? If the latter, where is the threshold for when free tokens are warranted?
Since I don't play any other MMOs, I wonder why race changes lead to calls for tokens whereas changing stats so (paid) DLC gear is much more attractive seems fairly widely accepted as the norm (Iceheart being a very notable exception, especially as the DLC alternative was never comparable). Isn't that a very similar mechanic in that there is an associated cost to follow meta as it changes?
For the racial changes, since they haven't been posted yet in this thread, see here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559360/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-0
The devs call these "slight adjustments." They do seem to be adjustments to the current bonuses, for the most part, rather than wholesale changes as we got before. ("Slight" will be subjective.) This is why I'm asking where people feel the threshold is for free race change tokens.
ETA: For comparison, here are the previous race changes that eventually merited 3 race change tokens per account:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21
The numbers were tweaked slightly in some cases, if I remember right, but just to give people a sense of the magnitude and quality of the changes.
When the changes to iceheart were announced, the playerbase was furious on the forums. We saw it for what it was, a deliberate money-grab scheme to help entice people to buy the new dlc to get the absolutely worthless Mother Cainet set. We didn’t and still don’t accept the practice of artificially creating a need to spend real money to improve builds you should already possess. Make dlc stuff stronger, but not by making my current stuff weaker to the point of being obsolete like with Iceheart.
With racial changes, its not like a dlc where I can wait for a eso+ free trial, get all the gear I need for my build and call it a day, or even simply buying eso+ for a month which in and of itself provides LOADS of content that is well worthy of the price. These racial changes make me need to spend $20-$30 (depending on how “in bulk” I buy the crowns) PER CHARACTER. Every stamina dps that made an orc will be at a significant disadvantage compared to their dark elf counterparts, and what of the tanks that chose to be a nord instead of a breton because of the large amount of armor it provided, only for it to be stripped to less than half its original value?
Not providing race change tokens would be an extremely unethical choice on zenimax’s part. I’m still holding out hope that they won’t screw over their entire endgame playerbase with this, on top of the 10-20% damage nerf.....
VoidCommander wrote: »I don’t know what it is you care about in the game, but clearly you don’t understand the effort that goes into making a solid endgame build if you so egregiously undervalue a player’s desire to have the proper race for their role.
Seraphayel wrote: »VoidCommander wrote: »I don’t know what it is you care about in the game, but clearly you don’t understand the effort that goes into making a solid endgame build if you so egregiously undervalue a player’s desire to have the proper race for their role.
Every race can fulfill every role to the amount that’s needed to succeed in every part of the game - from hardcore PvP to hardcore PvE and everything in between.
Your choice of race does matter on paper, it doesn’t matter in reality (e.g. in game). There’s no content that requires you to have a perfect race-group-setup to be successful. Every race is a proper race when it comes to game mechanics and the game itself. The issues solely exist in players‘ heads and, as I already said, on paper, in statistics, parses and metrics - luckily those things don’t make or break the game.
MorganaBlue wrote: »I have to respec 3 Bretons and 2 Redguards which weren't the best races even before, and are are now utter trash.
Please include racial respec in the Heroes Reforged event perks ffs.
If the ploy is to sell race change tokens - it is a pepega approach.
I personally won't buy them- I'd rather make a new character and grind to 50, which we'll be able to do much faster with new patch anyway.
Some people care too much about numbers. I was never refused a place in a trial group based on my main character's race and class (khajiit stamblade). The only time someone told me to reroll an orc was when I couldn't break a 60k parse threshold, now I parse over 80k and still play a khajiit. My tank is a redguard, and I cleared vet DLC dungeon hardmodes on that toon. I never even considered playing a nord tank.
MorganaBlue wrote: »I have to respec 3 Bretons and 2 Redguards which weren't the best races even before, and are are now utter trash.
Please include racial respec in the Heroes Reforged event perks ffs.
If the ploy is to sell race change tokens - it is a pepega approach.
I personally won't buy them- I'd rather make a new character and grind to 50, which we'll be able to do much faster with new patch anyway.
Why are breton and redguard trash in the in new patch? Werent those 2 races streight out buffed.
And why would grinding a char from 1 to 50 be faster?
Some people care too much about numbers. I was never refused a place in a trial group based on my main character's race and class (khajiit stamblade). The only time someone told me to reroll an orc was when I couldn't break a 60k parse threshold, now I parse over 80k and still play a khajiit. My tank is a redguard, and I cleared vet DLC dungeon hardmodes on that toon. I never even considered playing a nord tank.
Kudos, top 10%, and I bet you have less than a 80ms ping. Well done, fell proud of yourself. You are far from a representation of the average player....