Do you support the planned Racial Passive changes without Free change tokens?

NoSoup

There are a few threads already on the upcoming racial passive changes with no free race change tokens being offered but no polls to gauge sentiment on the subject. Previously rebalancing of races was accompanied by 3 race change tokens per account, an action that the majority of the playerbase accepted as being fair last time. Given that we're not going to see them this time it means either A: the changes arn't deemed significant enough or B: the community is becoming more accepting of changes that force you to spend IRL money to counter.

Grandchamp1989

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

I know I will change a few races next patch...

renne

NoSoup wrote: »

There are a few threads already on the upcoming racial passive changes with no free race change tokens being offered but no polls to gauge sentiment on the subject. Previously rebalancing of races was accompanied by 3 race change tokens per account, an action that the majority of the playerbase accepted as being fair last time. Given that we're not going to see them this time it means either A: the changes arn't deemed significant enough or B: the community is becoming more accepting of changes that force you to spend IRL money to counter.

Why would it mean B? To be fair, racial changes have been commented on, as have requests for tokens, BUT these changes are lumped in with so many OTHER massive changes, it's not hugely surprising that something has fallen by the wayside when there's the CP changes, the massive DPS nerf, the armour changes, etc... that people are more focussed on.

Given ZoS makes the choice to offer tokens or not, it just seems like it's only A. They just don't consider the changes significant enough to warrant it.

NoSoup

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

renne wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

There are a few threads already on the upcoming racial passive changes with no free race change tokens being offered but no polls to gauge sentiment on the subject. Previously rebalancing of races was accompanied by 3 race change tokens per account, an action that the majority of the playerbase accepted as being fair last time. Given that we're not going to see them this time it means either A: the changes arn't deemed significant enough or B: the community is becoming more accepting of changes that force you to spend IRL money to counter.

Why would it mean B? To be fair, racial changes have been commented on, as have requests for tokens, BUT these changes are lumped in with so many OTHER massive changes, it's not hugely surprising that something has fallen by the wayside when there's the CP changes, the massive DPS nerf, the armour changes, etc... that people are more focussed on.

Given ZoS makes the choice to offer tokens or not, it just seems like it's only A. They just don't consider the changes significant enough to warrant it.

Yes, lumping these changes in with other signifcant changes certainly helps to bury community dissent but these forums have been incredibly vocal about this subject matter in the past, which is where B comes into play.

renne

NoSoup wrote: »

renne wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

There are a few threads already on the upcoming racial passive changes with no free race change tokens being offered but no polls to gauge sentiment on the subject. Previously rebalancing of races was accompanied by 3 race change tokens per account, an action that the majority of the playerbase accepted as being fair last time. Given that we're not going to see them this time it means either A: the changes arn't deemed significant enough or B: the community is becoming more accepting of changes that force you to spend IRL money to counter.

Why would it mean B? To be fair, racial changes have been commented on, as have requests for tokens, BUT these changes are lumped in with so many OTHER massive changes, it's not hugely surprising that something has fallen by the wayside when there's the CP changes, the massive DPS nerf, the armour changes, etc... that people are more focussed on.

Given ZoS makes the choice to offer tokens or not, it just seems like it's only A. They just don't consider the changes significant enough to warrant it.

Yes, lumping these changes in with other signifcant changes certainly helps to bury community dissent but these forums have been incredibly vocal about this subject matter in the past, which is where B comes into play.

And again, in the past was it dumped in with a massive change to CP, complete review of how armour works, mitigation, DPS, etc etc etc? Like I said I have seen plenty of posts about the racial changes, it's not like it's being completely ignored. Racial changes are obviously just lower on the priority list for the majority of vocal people than all the other nerfs.

Tandor

Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.

I think the fact that this forum's front page hasn't been dominated by protests about the racial passive changes on PTS makes for a clear distinction between this and previous times. I realise there are other more substantial changes which might be expected to dominate but the forum's been pretty quiet on those too. I get the impression that the base game changes coming with this update are generally well liked. It may just be that all the usual pre-update QQers have left before now, but my hunch is that they'll all be back this time around if only to check out the CP changes.

As for this topic, I've no idea what the racial passive changes are, there just haven't been any major discussions drawing my attention to them, so I guess that the answer to the OP's speculation is "A".

Kiralyn2000

Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.

I can't imagine ever changing the race of my characters. The race is part of why I made them.

(Also, I'm used to things changing in MMOs. You just roll with it.
And certainly no-one is "forcing" people to pay for race changes. Other than they themselves.)

NoSoup

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

Tandor wrote: »

As for this topic, I've no idea what the racial passive changes are, there just haven't been any major discussions drawing my attention to them, so I guess that the answer to the OP's speculation is "A".

This is a bit of the problem in itself, not enough people fully familiarise themselves with the patch notes until either A, its too late or B, someone like Alcast update's their websites and people see what it means for their characters. I'm sure once Alcast updates his website to say that Orc's no longer give them best stats for Stamina and its now Dunmer then heaps of people will start moaning....

kijima

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

Solid post.

The changes are significant enough, at least in my mind they are.

Sarannah

Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.

Yes, I still have my race changes from last time ZOS gave those out for free. And my guess is many players do, except for some of the more elite players. Which is my guess on why ZOS does not give those out for free anymore.

Besides, my characters look awesome!

Sylvermynx

Can you tell me which patch notes have the info on the racials? I've read them all as they came out (as I can't do PTS - don't have the data to download/update etc.) and don't really remember seeing anything about it.

virtus753

I'm curious about the various opinions out there:

Do people feel we should get free race change tokens after any change to racial passives, or only when they reach a certain threshold? If the latter, where is the threshold for when free tokens are warranted?

Since I don't play any other MMOs, I wonder why race changes lead to calls for tokens whereas changing stats so (paid) DLC gear is much more attractive seems fairly widely accepted as the norm (Iceheart being a very notable exception, especially as the DLC alternative was never comparable). Isn't that a very similar mechanic in that there is an associated cost to follow meta as it changes?

For the racial changes, since they haven't been posted yet in this thread, see here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559360/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-0

The devs call these "slight adjustments." They do seem to be adjustments to the current bonuses, for the most part, rather than wholesale changes as we got before. ("Slight" will be subjective.) This is why I'm asking where people feel the threshold is for free race change tokens.

ETA: For comparison, here are the previous race changes that eventually merited 3 race change tokens per account:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21

The numbers were tweaked slightly in some cases, if I remember right, but just to give people a sense of the magnitude and quality of the changes.

Sylvermynx

Thanks @virtus753.

TwinLamps

I wont change races of my chars no matter what.
idgaf anymore.
justified or not, I simply dont have energy to care about ESO things that defy logic and reason.

Kiralyn2000

Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.

virtus753 wrote: »

For the racial changes, since they haven't been posted yet in this thread, see here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559360/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-0

...that's it? For this, people need to change their races?

NoSoup

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

virtus753 wrote: »

I'm curious about the various opinions out there:

Do people feel we should get free race change tokens after any change to racial passives, or only when they reach a certain threshold? If the latter, where is the threshold for when free tokens are warranted?

Since I don't play any other MMOs, I wonder why race changes lead to calls for tokens whereas changing stats so (paid) DLC gear is much more attractive seems fairly widely accepted as the norm (Iceheart being a very notable exception, especially as the DLC alternative was never comparable). Isn't that a very similar mechanic in that there is an associated cost to follow meta as it changes?

For the racial changes, since they haven't been posted yet in this thread, see here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559360/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-0

The devs call these "slight adjustments." They do seem to be adjustments to the current bonuses, for the most part, rather than wholesale changes as we got before. ("Slight" will be subjective.) This is why I'm asking where people feel the threshold is for free race change tokens.

ETA: For comparison, here are the previous race changes that eventually merited 3 race change tokens per account:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21

The numbers were tweaked slightly in some cases, if I remember right, but just to give people a sense of the magnitude and quality of the changes.

For me the threshold would be the adjustments don't change the hirachy of each race for performing certain roles. Which most the changes were in line with until they halved the amount of Stamina for Orcs for a Spell damage bonus. This changes the hirechy for Stamina PVE builds where Dunmer would be a clear choice as its much easier to find 1000 health in game compared to stamina. Depending on class Woodelf could even have higher stats now than Orcs due to their penetration bonus being always on.

For magic PVE builds the change probably just further cemented high elfs as being the absolute best choice, but in itself this hasn't changed any hirachy.

Mythreindeer

Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.

I don't bear any sense of entitlement so it doesn't bother me.

Fischblut

I wont change races of my chars no matter what.
idgaf anymore.
justified or not, I simply dont have energy to care about ESO things that defy logic and reason.

My feelings are very similar nowadays
I have race change tokens unused since very long time. Why bother? If character is already looking good, it's good enough... Racial changes happen from time to time, gear and skills change constantly, CP is getting weaker (possibly forever).

I realise there are other more substantial changes which might be expected to dominate but the forum's been pretty quiet on those too. I get the impression that the base game changes coming with this update are generally well liked.

There are lot of unhappy people in PTS forum section. When update hits live, and more people will feel the CP changes, I would expect unhappy people in General forums as well.

But in this case of upcoming racial changes, I'm very indifferent. Some buffs, some nerfs... I would take free tokens, of course - it's much better than "free ESO+ statuettes" - but all my characters are keeping their races.

Wolfpaw

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

TwinLamps wrote: »

I wont change races of my chars no matter what.
idgaf anymore.
justified or not, I simply dont have energy to care about ESO things that defy logic and reason.

Additional bump in revenue through the Crown Store for the quarter plus.

Race change token sales have slowed since the last "balance" racial update. Not balance, not lore, just $$.

Araneae6537

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

Sarannah wrote: »

Yes, I still have my race changes from last time ZOS gave those out for free. And my guess is many players do, except for some of the more elite players. Which is my guess on why ZOS does not give those out for free anymore.

Besides, my characters look awesome!

I mostly feel the same — passives are only one aspect I consider when making my characters and so most I wouldn’t change, one maybe, the rest I’d use as free appearance adjustment tokens.

It’s more the principle of the thing. I get the impression from the threads I’ve read on different topics that ZOS has generally decreased what is done for players over the years when it comes to compensation and thank you type of things. Do I feel I am owed a crate during a free ESO+ week? Not at all, but that sounds like a really cool bonus, a nice extra perk for being a subscriber.

Hlanu

Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.

I play the race for the looks and feel, not for some numbers. Apart from that, I usually play Magicka Bosmers and Stamina Altmers, so racials never really mattered to me anyway.

Sangwyne

...I don't even support the planned racial changes WITH free race change tokens. I'd rather just have the characters I've invested so much into retain the same stats they had when I first selected them, what's wrong with letting Argonians have a little sustain or Nords be known as durable tanks? Why do Orcs suddenly have a stronger claim to Magicka DPS than the Bretons or the Altmer deal more damage than Redguards or Nords when High Elves look more like the "Get stickbugged!" gif than actual warriors?

NotaDaedraWorshipper

I don't pick races for their passives, but for the character concept I have in mind. So I don't care much about it, but I wouldn't say no to free tokens. Can always use them as appearance ones.

russelmmendoza

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

Give me race change token,

before racial passive change.

Starlight_Whisper

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

Well I have seen 3 race changes in a 5 years

PaddyVu

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

I wasted 5M gold to change racial for 4 toons from highelf to darkelf, now i continue to waste another 5M gold to change from darkelf to highelf Great !

rpa

Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.

Still have the 3 tokens from whenever it was. The time when they mess with the passives enough to make some races unviable for some role is the time to switch to some other game instead.

PaddyVu

No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Atleast give us 1 race change token so we can focus on main toon. I started this game from 28 June 2020 and didnt know about the past or anything, if u make the change for new members, atleast give us 1 race change token or sale it by 50%. I really dont want to spend 800k-1m gold to change a race...

colossalvoids

Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.

Well as much as I'd like some tokens it's not even near wrathstone level where it was a necessity. Nothing changed that dramatically for such a thing to happen again.

Daemons_Bane

Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.

Won't bother me a single bit

zaria

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I can't imagine ever changing the race of my characters. The race is part of why I made them.

(Also, I'm used to things changing in MMOs. You just roll with it.
And certainly no-one is "forcing" people to pay for race changes. Other than they themselves.)

Race change tokens can also be used as appearance change tokens who is always nice to have.