Pallio wrote: »

So 1200 to 1800 is the same rate as 810+ now. So good for people below 1200, otherwise now change. Other than actually needing to get to 1800 now.

@Pallio sorry please see my recent edit including an update from Gina Bruno with PTS 6.3.3 (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561927/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-3#latest) where that curve has been further adjusted up to 1800 from 1200.

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Ringod123 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

But are you taking into account the adjusted XP gain curve as it sounds like you aren't. XP amounts haven't changed but that curve sure is and it will be much easier post patch just to get to 810 than it did for you. The same as it was to get to 690 when I started. When you go beyond that curve gain that is the official grind point but by that point you're level is more than enough to complete all content.

Every player who started this game from the beginning has been going through this. The grind to VR16 was the same as the current grind to 810 relatively speaking. But after you hit that max you were literally grinding for nothing. It has been the exact same since every CP update since up to the Murkmire 810 cap. Those who haven't gotten then have an easier time. Those who have can feel good that through extra hard work they future proofed themselves.

Can you show me this XP gain curve?
As far as i'm aware there is only a curve for converting your XP into CP. 200M XP will take the same time in the new system to earn as id did in the old. The reason it's quicker to get to 810 than before is because it now takes less XP, not because you gain XP faster.

And 1000 hours over the current cap, which took 2.5k hours to get to itself, shouldn't be enough to already be at the new cap?

"With CP 2.0, we have reduced a lot of that gap by baking in the base max Magicka, Stamina, and Health you got from spending 100 points per “CP color” into your characters as you level up. We have also increased Weapon and Spell damage for players with this change to make up for that gap. Lastly, we adjusted the rate at which you gain CP to be faster than it currently is on the live servers. Considering we haven’t raised the cap by 30 per patch in quite some time, we adjusted the CP curve to accommodate for that difference with a focus on speeding up the gain between 810 CP and roughly 1200 CP. This means you’ll gain CP levels faster at lower levels, and the rate at which you gain CP between 810 and 1200 (ish) will be slightly faster than how it is now with CP 1.0. After 1200 CP or so, the CP gain rate will feel about the same as it did in CP 1.0 once you reached higher ranks." - Brian Wheeler https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559230/update-29-combat-preview/p1

That curve has been a part of every patch with CP. It was done so that newer players didn't spend forever just getting to CP160 (formerly VR16) and then they faced a new grind just to get to the current CP cap at the time. It has consistently been adjusted each patch so that the time spent to get to the current max CP was relatively equivalent to how much time it took to get to VR16 5 years ago.

Enlightenment is a further boost on top of that curve adjustment that offers a flat extreme boost to a limited amount of XP. That said, once you hit the ZOS current cap every player will has to level their XP without any adjustment outside of enlightenment and scrolls. This is how it has always been. When this patch goes live you'll see you get to 1800 much faster than I did and that individuals who are under you get to CP810 much faster than you did.

No one is getting screwed here.

**EDIT**

"Champion System

- Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
- Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch. " Gina Bruno PTS Patch 6.3.3 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561927/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-3#latest

CP gain has been boosted, not XP gain. And since enlightenment is also staying the same I can easily work out how long it will take to earn the XP needed based on how long my current XP total has taken.

And my argument has never been that I won't get to 1800 quicker than people who are already there, it's that the 1K hours of playtime I have over reaching CP810 is now not deemed as enough to keep that parity going forward, but instead i'm having to earn another 2K+ hours worth of XP to regain it.

[Edit to remove bait]

remosito wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

@Pallio with consistent play and taking advantage of 2xp events it should theoretically take your friend the same amount of time to reach CP1800 as it currently takes individuals to reach CP810. Obviously that timeline is subject to variables and activities but it's directly proportional as that with all things being equally done the accomplishment will be the same.

Xp needed to get to 810 in CP1.0 = 195M
Xp needed to get to 1800 in CP2.0 = 435M

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

I myself started the game in 2017 and reached the then current CP cap by May of 2018. With the inclusion of four double XP events (Witches, New Life, Jester, and Anniversary) that was well under a full year. Someone playing half as much as me from start after the patch can expect to hit CP 900 within 5 to 6 months or even less.

Unless that player starts in Late April with no 2x event until October..... Witches, New Life, Jester, Anniversary are all within the same half-year.

The CP curve adjustment is designed to negate that. So all things being equal the same amount of activities needed to gain 810CP will get you to CP 1800. It’s not a straight curve but rather a weighted one and front loaded. You’ll gain the first levels very quickly and it slows down as you approach the cap.

Once you hit CP1800 you’ll feel the full brunt of 1.4 million XP to gain a single point.

As for the XP bonus events they’re spread out liberally across 8 months from October to May. 2 of the other months have 2xAP in Cyrodiil with MidYear Mayhem and 2x Tel Var with Imperial City event.

Also on a personal note I must say I leveled up to max CP without the use of scrolls/ambrosia and before ZOS liberally gave out XP scrolls as part of the daily rewards.

I’ve also seen pictures of enlightenment being doubled to 800k a day but I’ve yet to confirm that going live. All in all the leveling should be rather quick.

Ok lets look at it this way:

Say I earned 500k XP a day. I know most hardcore players earn far more than that but it's roughly equivalent to using all of you Enlightenment plus some more each day.

Under the current CP Leveling System it would take me:
391 days to reach CP810
1030 days to reach CP 1200
2,471 days to reach CP 1800


Under the new CP Leveling System it would be:
206 days to reach CP810
413 days to reach CP1200
870 days to reach CP1800

Now if you want "parity" the developers stated that 1200 under the new system would be the relative end of vertical progression in the game. After that your points are going for horizontal progression. So no real power increase but more choices as to what you want to simultaneously put points into. Current max is 810.

413 days versus the current 391. I don't see a problem here. Beyond that they're just giving you room for horizontal growth that normally would have taken you 4+ years to do.

If you want a higher CP then put in the time for it. But the amount of time to gain "parity" in terms of power is about the same or less than before.

I think most players are just upset about sunk time costs.The thought being "I sunk X amount of hours into this game and I should be rewarded with a higher level". But sunk time doesn't equate to level nor does it equate to skill. Time sunk is really just a matter of game enjoyment. I played the game longer and thus I got more out of it. Your power level has always been capped at what the developers set it to. Up to now (and for the last two years) that has been 810. Nothing you did beyond that had any effect on the game.

Now they're saying 1200 is effectively that and it will take new players roughly the same amount of time to get there as it took you to get to 810 if you started at Murkmire.

And if you are currently exactly CP810 well then yes it will take you another 207 days to get to 1200. Contrast that with 639 days before the patch though. And keep in mind 1200 isn't equal to 810 in combat ability. 1200 will be technically be above as its where meaningful vertical progression ends. The current 810 cap in the current system, though locked by developers, would still have had vertical progression room available for players. You would be approaching that theoretical limit.

Ringod123 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Ok lets look at it this way:

Say I earned 500k XP a day. I know most hardcore players earn far more than that but it's roughly equivalent to using all of you Enlightenment plus some more each day.

Under the current CP Leveling System it would take me:
391 days to reach CP810
1030 days to reach CP 1200
2,471 days to reach CP 1800


Under the new CP Leveling System it would be:
206 days to reach CP810
413 days to reach CP1200
870 days to reach CP1800

Now if you want "parity" the developers stated that 1200 under the new system would be the relative end of vertical progression in the game. After that your points are going for horizontal progression. So no real power increase but more choices as to what you want to simultaneously put points into. Current max is 810.

413 days versus the current 391. I don't see a problem here. Beyond that they're just giving you room for horizontal growth that normally would have taken you 4+ years to do.

If you want a higher CP then put in the time for it. But the amount of time to gain "parity" in terms of power is about the same or less than before.

I think most players are just upset about sunk time costs.The thought being "I sunk X amount of hours into this game and I should be rewarded with a higher level". But sunk time doesn't equate to level nor does it equate to skill. Time sunk is really just a matter of game enjoyment. I played the game longer and thus I got more out of it. Your power level has always been capped at what the developers set it to. Up to now (and for the last two years) that has been 810. Nothing you did beyond that had any effect on the game.

Now they're saying 1200 is effectively that and it will take new players roughly the same amount of time to get there as it took you to get to 810 if you started at Murkmire.

And if you are currently exactly CP810 well then yes it will take you another 207 days to get to 1200. Contrast that with 639 days before the patch though. And keep in mind 1200 isn't equal to 810 in combat ability. 1200 will be technically be above as its where meaningful vertical progression ends. The current 810 cap in the current system, though locked by developers, would still have had vertical progression room available for players. You would be approaching that theoretical limit.

It's clearly evident if you log onto the PTS and look at the system that PARITY starts at CP1800, as it takes 600 points in the blue tree to fill all USEFUL passives and 4 slottables, something that ZOS even agreed with when they changed the curve from 1080 to 1800. Anything less is marginal to varying degrees but is NOT parity.
If it was 1200 I wouldn't have a problem as a 400 increase in cap is a lot more modest than 1000.

Are you trying to equate filling out all vertical progression with CP810? Because I can clearly see with the current CP I can’t put into all points into my green, blue, and red trees to max out.

1200 was where Brian Wheeler stated that vertical progressing begins to tail off. 1800 would be where it hard ends. The current 810 is much closer in ability parity to the new 1200 than 1800.

tmbrinks wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Ringod123 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Ok lets look at it this way:

Say I earned 500k XP a day. I know most hardcore players earn far more than that but it's roughly equivalent to using all of you Enlightenment plus some more each day.

Under the current CP Leveling System it would take me:
391 days to reach CP810
1030 days to reach CP 1200
2,471 days to reach CP 1800


Under the new CP Leveling System it would be:
206 days to reach CP810
413 days to reach CP1200
870 days to reach CP1800

Now if you want "parity" the developers stated that 1200 under the new system would be the relative end of vertical progression in the game. After that your points are going for horizontal progression. So no real power increase but more choices as to what you want to simultaneously put points into. Current max is 810.

413 days versus the current 391. I don't see a problem here. Beyond that they're just giving you room for horizontal growth that normally would have taken you 4+ years to do.

If you want a higher CP then put in the time for it. But the amount of time to gain "parity" in terms of power is about the same or less than before.

I think most players are just upset about sunk time costs.The thought being "I sunk X amount of hours into this game and I should be rewarded with a higher level". But sunk time doesn't equate to level nor does it equate to skill. Time sunk is really just a matter of game enjoyment. I played the game longer and thus I got more out of it. Your power level has always been capped at what the developers set it to. Up to now (and for the last two years) that has been 810. Nothing you did beyond that had any effect on the game.

Now they're saying 1200 is effectively that and it will take new players roughly the same amount of time to get there as it took you to get to 810 if you started at Murkmire.

And if you are currently exactly CP810 well then yes it will take you another 207 days to get to 1200. Contrast that with 639 days before the patch though. And keep in mind 1200 isn't equal to 810 in combat ability. 1200 will be technically be above as its where meaningful vertical progression ends. The current 810 cap in the current system, though locked by developers, would still have had vertical progression room available for players. You would be approaching that theoretical limit.

It's clearly evident if you log onto the PTS and look at the system that PARITY starts at CP1800, as it takes 600 points in the blue tree to fill all USEFUL passives and 4 slottables, something that ZOS even agreed with when they changed the curve from 1080 to 1800. Anything less is marginal to varying degrees but is NOT parity.
If it was 1200 I wouldn't have a problem as a 400 increase in cap is a lot more modest than 1000.

Are you trying to equate filling out all vertical progression with CP810? Because I can clearly see with the current CP I can’t put into all points into my green, blue, and red trees to max out.

He is, and it can be right to do so, if you consider the vertical progression cap to be the point where gaining another CP no longer provides a combat benefit.
Maxing out the old tree in terms of putting 100 in all stars isn't the comparison.
Its about at what point you gain the maximum available power. With the available power either limited by a spending cap or a limit on available options, whichever occurs first.

Under the old system, this was at CP810. No ifs or buts.
Sure the whole tree isn't filled out but the enforced cap means that gaining any more CP no longer provides you any benefit, because you can't spend it.
(Barring a cap increase, in which case the limit becomes the new cap)

Under the new system, it occurs at the point at which you have maxed out all the relevant available stars (because this happens before you hit the spendable cap). In this case, the cap exists because while you can still spend CP, you can no longer spend it on something that matters.
This could be as low as ~1200 CP for single role PvE dps
It could be as high as 1800-2500 for multi-role PvP

All these tears though are based on the assumption that ZOS won't put out a hardcap when it goes it live. For those that were around when the CP 1.0 system launched they'd remember there was no hard cap originally but the power difference between the top and the bottom was so huge that ZOS quickly put in a cap and then slowly increased it. I imagine the same will happen this round...

I don't. Single role progression is essentially done at CP1100-1200, and a large number of players are already there. Multi-role progression pretty much ends at CP1800 which is the end of vertical progression (and the difference between CP1200 and CP1800 is likely to be measured in the low single percentage points.

Above CP1800 is strictly horizontal progression and RP-type abilities you have access to... along with the ability to "hot-swap" abilities.

They already reduced the impact of CP by a significant amount, by lowering the delta (slope of power gain per level), so that I don't forsee them capping it later on.

I would also not discount that (hot swapping stars) as being a requirement for score pushing. The best groups already swap gear and skills for just about every pull in a score run. This will be no different. I think you are going to need to be well north of CP 1800 if you really want to push world record scores. Do I need AOE damage? Can I flank this particular boss? The optimal combo of slotted abilities is going to vary significantly from pull to pull if min/maxing is the goal.

Admittedly, not a concern for the vast majority of the player base, but certainly something to think about.

tmbrinks wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Ringod123 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Ok lets look at it this way:

Say I earned 500k XP a day. I know most hardcore players earn far more than that but it's roughly equivalent to using all of you Enlightenment plus some more each day.

Under the current CP Leveling System it would take me:
391 days to reach CP810
1030 days to reach CP 1200
2,471 days to reach CP 1800


Under the new CP Leveling System it would be:
206 days to reach CP810
413 days to reach CP1200
870 days to reach CP1800

Now if you want "parity" the developers stated that 1200 under the new system would be the relative end of vertical progression in the game. After that your points are going for horizontal progression. So no real power increase but more choices as to what you want to simultaneously put points into. Current max is 810.

413 days versus the current 391. I don't see a problem here. Beyond that they're just giving you room for horizontal growth that normally would have taken you 4+ years to do.

If you want a higher CP then put in the time for it. But the amount of time to gain "parity" in terms of power is about the same or less than before.

I think most players are just upset about sunk time costs.The thought being "I sunk X amount of hours into this game and I should be rewarded with a higher level". But sunk time doesn't equate to level nor does it equate to skill. Time sunk is really just a matter of game enjoyment. I played the game longer and thus I got more out of it. Your power level has always been capped at what the developers set it to. Up to now (and for the last two years) that has been 810. Nothing you did beyond that had any effect on the game.

Now they're saying 1200 is effectively that and it will take new players roughly the same amount of time to get there as it took you to get to 810 if you started at Murkmire.

And if you are currently exactly CP810 well then yes it will take you another 207 days to get to 1200. Contrast that with 639 days before the patch though. And keep in mind 1200 isn't equal to 810 in combat ability. 1200 will be technically be above as its where meaningful vertical progression ends. The current 810 cap in the current system, though locked by developers, would still have had vertical progression room available for players. You would be approaching that theoretical limit.

It's clearly evident if you log onto the PTS and look at the system that PARITY starts at CP1800, as it takes 600 points in the blue tree to fill all USEFUL passives and 4 slottables, something that ZOS even agreed with when they changed the curve from 1080 to 1800. Anything less is marginal to varying degrees but is NOT parity.
If it was 1200 I wouldn't have a problem as a 400 increase in cap is a lot more modest than 1000.

Are you trying to equate filling out all vertical progression with CP810? Because I can clearly see with the current CP I can’t put into all points into my green, blue, and red trees to max out.

He is, and it can be right to do so, if you consider the vertical progression cap to be the point where gaining another CP no longer provides a combat benefit.
Maxing out the old tree in terms of putting 100 in all stars isn't the comparison.
Its about at what point you gain the maximum available power. With the available power either limited by a spending cap or a limit on available options, whichever occurs first.

Under the old system, this was at CP810. No ifs or buts.
Sure the whole tree isn't filled out but the enforced cap means that gaining any more CP no longer provides you any benefit, because you can't spend it.
(Barring a cap increase, in which case the limit becomes the new cap)

Under the new system, it occurs at the point at which you have maxed out all the relevant available stars (because this happens before you hit the spendable cap). In this case, the cap exists because while you can still spend CP, you can no longer spend it on something that matters.
This could be as low as ~1200 CP for single role PvE dps
It could be as high as 1800-2500 for multi-role PvP

All these tears though are based on the assumption that ZOS won't put out a hardcap when it goes it live. For those that were around when the CP 1.0 system launched they'd remember there was no hard cap originally but the power difference between the top and the bottom was so huge that ZOS quickly put in a cap and then slowly increased it. I imagine the same will happen this round...

I don't. Single role progression is essentially done at CP1100-1200, and a large number of players are already there. Multi-role progression pretty much ends at CP1800 which is the end of vertical progression (and the difference between CP1200 and CP1800 is likely to be measured in the low single percentage points.

Above CP1800 is strictly horizontal progression and RP-type abilities you have access to... along with the ability to "hot-swap" abilities.

They already reduced the impact of CP by a significant amount, by lowering the delta (slope of power gain per level), so that I don't forsee them capping it later on.

I would also not discount that (hot swapping stars) as being a requirement for score pushing. The best groups already swap gear and skills for just about every pull in a score run. This will be no different. I think you are going to need to be well north of CP 1800 if you really want to push world record scores. Do I need AOE damage? Can I flank this particular boss? The optimal combo of slotted abilities is going to vary significantly from pull to pull if min/maxing is the goal.

Admittedly, not a concern for the vast majority of the player base, but certainly something to think about.

From what I've seen, the flanking bonus is the biggest boost.

So yes, if you have a boss you can flank, you'll want that slotted. If you can't flank (think dragons in vSS) you'll have another slotted.

vHoF is the only trial I can quickly think of that would have both types in it (not being able to flank AG, but the other bosses being flankable) But there may be others.

But, I agree you'll need those 150 extra CP (50 in each star) to be able to hot-swap those out in those situations for the 0.01% of players who are pushing WR scores.

Yes, very small percent of the player base. I usually only run two loadouts per trial, one trash, one boss, so I am not terribly worried about it from a personal standpoint. I havent pushed score in years, but admittedly, when I play with the new CP system, I find myself wanting more than 1800 points, especially when I look at it from a PVP perspective.