100% Double Node Passive apply to surveys?

lillybit · February 2021

rrimöykk wrote: »

Do they drop double furnishings mats too, for example Heartwood?

As near as I can tell when you get a double drop (whether from an event or the passive) it doesn't just double what you've picked up but adds a second random selection, same as if you'd just picked up another node. So the extra 90% chance should almost double all drops (20 picks out of 10 rather than the current 11) unless they lower the drop rate. Here's hoping anyway!

jaws343 · February 2021

Dracane wrote: »

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Remember that the current Harvester passive works with surveys on live. So why wouldn't the CP 2.0 version work with surveys?

Regardless, the double-harvest passive currently works with surveys on Live, so it's no surprise that the new version will work with surveys.

Just that having a 10% chance to yield double from a survey node is an entirely different pair of shoes than having a 100% chance. Though I suppose it's ZoS' answer to the current economy.

Needless to say, I have just had all my characters absolve their certifications and primed that lazy writ addon so they can stock up on surveys for me. The first round already yielded good results.
What a lovely Update this is going to be if I put aside some of the negatives. Really looking forward to the changes.

Oh yeah. outside of the anniversary event, I usually only do writs on my main. But after hearing about this passive I am now doing writs on all of my characters.

CleymenZero · February 2021

Qbiken wrote: »

Hopefully it´s intended and makes it to live. The current price levels of tempers are absolutely absurd and the new CP perk would definitely help to balance it out a bit.

I think it could be intended as a way to curb market manipulation. Beginning of summer, a bunch of trading guilds were pushing their members to buy off all the mats on the market. They've succeeded in pushing the price up and as they are the ones with the mats, prolly making a nice chunk off of it.

With this passive, there's a chance for A LOT of extra mats to enter the market. ZOS can probably check what's up with gold mats and see that they're being hoarded.

I'm in favor of a little market crash.

ApoAlaia · February 2021

lillybit wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

Do they drop double furnishings mats too, for example Heartwood?

As near as I can tell when you get a double drop (whether from an event or the passive) it doesn't just double what you've picked up but adds a second random selection, same as if you'd just picked up another node. So the extra 90% chance should almost double all drops (20 picks out of 10 rather than the current 11) unless they lower the drop rate. Here's hoping anyway!

Me too.

Heartwood specially (at least in PC/EU) seems a little bit steeply priced.

More availability hopefully should bring the prices down a notch.

Dracane · February 2021

lillybit wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

Do they drop double furnishings mats too, for example Heartwood?

As near as I can tell when you get a double drop (whether from an event or the passive) it doesn't just double what you've picked up but adds a second random selection, same as if you'd just picked up another node. So the extra 90% chance should almost double all drops (20 picks out of 10 rather than the current 11) unless they lower the drop rate. Here's hoping anyway!

I can confirm this. It does not double the base gain, but adds a second drop roll.
Usually I get 20 wood from a survey node and 38 from a survey node boosted by the passive.

virtus753 · February 2021

Dracane wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

Do they drop double furnishings mats too, for example Heartwood?

As near as I can tell when you get a double drop (whether from an event or the passive) it doesn't just double what you've picked up but adds a second random selection, same as if you'd just picked up another node. So the extra 90% chance should almost double all drops (20 picks out of 10 rather than the current 11) unless they lower the drop rate. Here's hoping anyway!

I can confirm this. It does not double the base gain, but adds a second drop roll.
Usually I get 20 wood from a survey node and 38 from a survey node boosted by the passive.

Same thing for enchanting: you get double the pulls, not double the results of one pull.

FrancisCrawford · February 2021

Dracane wrote: »

A little concern I had: Has someone tried refining materials with the new passive? I have refined thousands of raw materials and have not gained a single golden material. Normally I see a roughly 10% for those on live.

10%?? I'm used to 5%, maybe 5.5%

coop500 · February 2021

As someone who refuses to pay the crazy prices players are asking for stuff, this makes me happy lol.

BergisMacBride · February 2021

It will be interesting to see how much this change will impact the materials prices and economy in the game. Certainly there will be a significant downward pressure on prices when all this supply hits the market, and that's a good thing as it will make the mats and their derivative items more available for all. The mats market's been way overheated for about a year and needed some throttling back. With this much new supply, it will also be that much more difficult to manipulate the market, which is detrimental to the game economy.

IMO another cause of the mats price inflation is the continually increasing in game money supply and lack of other large or consistent gold sinks outside of weekly trader bids. The other true gold sinks (trader listing fees\taxes, merchant repair fees, respec fees, etc...) don't account for much by comparison. The weekly Golden\Lux vendors also pulls some gold supply out each week, but at a fraction of the trader bids.

Once you get your account established and chars outfitted, bringing gold supply into the game is pretty easy if you're so inclined. Doing writs alone on 18 chars\day nets >500K gold per account each week just from the gold rewards of the quests. Lots of folks have long established accounts with maxed crafters and are mostly self-sufficient for stuff they need. This extra gold sitting around is also a significant factor in the inflation we've seen.

So I'd expect the market to settle quite abit lower than it is now, with the bottom somewhat determined by the supply of in game gold.

My main question is when I'm going to start saving my surveys before the patch. I get ~100 each week doing writs and usually keep caught up on them daily or every few days. I'm just not looking forward to doing a 300-400 survey marathon after the patch if I start banking them now....

Xebov · February 2021

BergisMacBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how much this change will impact the materials prices and economy in the game. Certainly there will be a significant downward pressure on prices when all this supply hits the market, and that's a good thing as it will make the mats and their derivative items more available for all. The mats market's been way overheated for about a year and needed some throttling back. With this much new supply, it will also be that much more difficult to manipulate the market, which is detrimental to the game economy.

If everything works as it looks now you will see double the amount of raw material combined with a higher chance for upgrade materials than before. In total you can expect 1.5 to 2.5x increase in supply. How much it realy is depends on the perk and on the ratio of gathered vs hireling/quest rewards is in supply.

BergisMacBride wrote: »

My main question is when I'm going to start saving my surveys before the patch. I get ~100 each week doing writs and usually keep caught up on them daily or every few days. I'm just not looking forward to doing a 300-400 survey marathon after the patch if I start banking them now....

It depends.
If you are collecting golden materials for your own use its definitely worth it.
If you are just want to sell it off its not worth it. The reason is: Prices will drop after the Patch. If alot of ppl start banking their surveys now they will just have the price rise now (less supply) with a bigger drop post patch (more supply). The more players bank the higher the effect will be.

KhajiitLivesMatter · February 2021

Rittings wrote: »

Thank you for the confirmation!! That's pretty awesome. Rewarding the crafters among us finally - and hopefully we can start to quash those bot farmers with our own dedication and hard work for a change! That's put a HUGE smile on my face

u know that we need the bot farmed for the economy to work

or do u want to pay 30k for 1 dreugh wax ? i dont

Rittings · February 2021

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Rittings wrote: »

Thank you for the confirmation!! That's pretty awesome. Rewarding the crafters among us finally - and hopefully we can start to quash those bot farmers with our own dedication and hard work for a change! That's put a HUGE smile on my face

u know that we need the bot farmed for the economy to work

or do u want to pay 30k for 1 dreugh wax ? i dont

It wasn’t 30k before bots. People used to farm mats, but now we can’t because bots have secured all the best nodes and spots.

Dracane · February 2021

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

A little concern I had: Has someone tried refining materials with the new passive? I have refined thousands of raw materials and have not gained a single golden material. Normally I see a roughly 10% for those on live.

10%?? I'm used to 5%, maybe 5.5%

Yes. I can usually expect to gain 1 golden material every 100 ressource refined. sometimes 1.2, sometimes 0.8.

tmbrinks · February 2021

Dracane wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

A little concern I had: Has someone tried refining materials with the new passive? I have refined thousands of raw materials and have not gained a single golden material. Normally I see a roughly 10% for those on live.

10%?? I'm used to 5%, maybe 5.5%

Yes. I can usually expect to gain 1 golden material every 100 ressource refined. sometimes 1.2, sometimes 0.8.

I've refined over 2 million mats.. and have tracked them... The drop rate is 5% 1 per 200.

Edit: We'll see what Meticulous Disassembly does for the drop rate... if it's ever fixed on PTS

FrancisCrawford · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

A little concern I had: Has someone tried refining materials with the new passive? I have refined thousands of raw materials and have not gained a single golden material. Normally I see a roughly 10% for those on live.

10%?? I'm used to 5%, maybe 5.5%

Yes. I can usually expect to gain 1 golden material every 100 ressource refined. sometimes 1.2, sometimes 0.8.

I've refined over 2 million mats.. and have tracked them... The drop rate is 5% 1 per 200.

Edit: We'll see what Meticulous Disassembly does for the drop rate... if it's ever fixed on PTS

5.0% or a bit higher? My tests have usually wound up in the 5.3-5.6% range.

Sahidom · February 2021

The crafting passives are quite expensive to reach full potential e.g. 270 CP using the shortest minimum cost path only returns +60% double yield; yet you benefit from all the awesome refinement changes. To fully benefit from all the crafting passives will require a lot more CP than the 810 (270/tree) allowance.

tmbrinks · February 2021

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

A little concern I had: Has someone tried refining materials with the new passive? I have refined thousands of raw materials and have not gained a single golden material. Normally I see a roughly 10% for those on live.

10%?? I'm used to 5%, maybe 5.5%

Yes. I can usually expect to gain 1 golden material every 100 ressource refined. sometimes 1.2, sometimes 0.8.

I've refined over 2 million mats.. and have tracked them... The drop rate is 5% 1 per 200.

Edit: We'll see what Meticulous Disassembly does for the drop rate... if it's ever fixed on PTS

5.0% or a bit higher? My tests have usually wound up in the 5.3-5.6% range.

5%, I'm within 3 thousands of 5% (4.997%) on 2.1 million resources refined.

tmbrinks · February 2021

Sahidom wrote: »

The crafting passives are quite expensive to reach full potential e.g. 270 CP using the shortest minimum cost path only returns +60% double yield; yet you benefit from all the awesome refinement changes. To fully benefit from all the crafting passives will require a lot more CP than the 810 (270/tree) allowance.

You can spend up to 1200 per tree in U29. 1/3 of the CP you have.

Dracane · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

A little concern I had: Has someone tried refining materials with the new passive? I have refined thousands of raw materials and have not gained a single golden material. Normally I see a roughly 10% for those on live.

10%?? I'm used to 5%, maybe 5.5%

Yes. I can usually expect to gain 1 golden material every 100 ressource refined. sometimes 1.2, sometimes 0.8.

I've refined over 2 million mats.. and have tracked them... The drop rate is 5% 1 per 200.

Edit: We'll see what Meticulous Disassembly does for the drop rate... if it's ever fixed on PTS

Oh I did not mean to argue about the actual statistics. I meant to say that I am normally quite lucky and that I found it odd to not receive 1 golden material in 5k mats with Meticulous Disassembly. Because it is currently not working.

Sahidom · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

Sahidom wrote: »

The crafting passives are quite expensive to reach full potential e.g. 270 CP using the shortest minimum cost path only returns +60% double yield; yet you benefit from all the awesome refinement changes. To fully benefit from all the crafting passives will require a lot more CP than the 810 (270/tree) allowance.

You can spend up to 1200 per tree in U29. 1/3 of the CP you have.

Name how many people will patch Update 29 and go... awesome, I get to spend 1200 per tree? Most likely none. I only pointed out the numbers needed to get into those star nodes for those upcoming crafters who want to take advantage of the new 2.0 system for their writ mules or crafters.

preevious · February 2021

virtus753 wrote: »

Duplomancer wrote: »

I have gotten double Fortified before, but not Potent.

On live or the PTS?

I’ve gotten double potent on live but not on the PTS so far.

Just to add that :

On live (and most likely on PTS as well), potent and fortified have their own separate odds.
Meaning on a normal (not doubled) gathering, you might end up with 1 potent AND 1 fortified.

If you got 2 of the same, it means your source was doubled, you rolled 2 times (because you don't double your first roll .. you roll 2 different times) and got lucky 2 times.
It also means that on doubled nodes, you can actually get 2 potent AND 2 fortified (with very, very small odds).
The never happened to me, but I already got 2 potent and 1 fortified in the same node.

Theorically, one day, someone WILL get 2 aeterial dust in the same node. Will be a joyous day for her/him !

tmbrinks · February 2021

Sahidom wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Sahidom wrote: »

The crafting passives are quite expensive to reach full potential e.g. 270 CP using the shortest minimum cost path only returns +60% double yield; yet you benefit from all the awesome refinement changes. To fully benefit from all the crafting passives will require a lot more CP than the 810 (270/tree) allowance.

You can spend up to 1200 per tree in U29. 1/3 of the CP you have.

Name how many people will patch Update 29 and go... awesome, I get to spend 1200 per tree? Most likely none. I only pointed out the numbers needed to get into those star nodes for those upcoming crafters who want to take advantage of the new 2.0 system for their writ mules or crafters.

Sorry, the wording in your post the "will require a lot more CP than the 810 (270/tree) allowance" implied that the "cap" of 810 was still in place.

There are at least 2 players at 3600 CP, but I admit it's a very small portion of the population.

ApoAlaia · February 2021

Given what has happened to the price of Aetherial Dust after the announcement that the grind for CP was back on the menu and in a colossal way to boot that will be very joyous indeed.

Zodiarkslayer · February 2021

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Remember that the current Harvester passive works with surveys on live. So why wouldn't the CP 2.0 version work with surveys?

Normal nodes in this case refers to harvest nodes, as opposed to mats that can be "harvested" from monsters, heavy sacks, wet gunny sacks, etc.

Now, it is true that during events, only the nodes "in the wild" will yield potentially double rewards, but it's also limited to a particular zone (with the recent Explorers Event as an exception).

Regardless, the double-harvest passive currently works with surveys on Live, so it's no surprise that the new version will work with surveys.

I do hope this might reduce the botting, but I suppose as long as there are players willing to buy from them, nothing will change. I don't look forward to Dreugh Wax falling below the 4.4K currently. Alloy and resin has crept up a bit, so I'm trying to sell as much as I can now while the price is high, since selling Wax is hard right now. Just my one trading guild has an entire page of Wax just sitting there, with sub 5K prices.

So, I'm preparing for lower prices on mats overall, which is somewhat unfortunate considering that most of my income comes from selling mats. But, maybe that will mean that the outrageous prices on dungeon/trial motif pages will come down if those players don't have to spend as much on alchemy and improvement mats.

Sub 5k? For PC that would be sub 12k...

I share your thoughts on the passive, though. It is unreasonable to assume, that double resources do not apply to surveys, when they clearly do now!

tmbrinks · February 2021

With the changes in 6.3.3, it's now down to a maximum of a 50% to double a node (still a big improvement over Live)

lillybit · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

With the changes in 6.3.3, it's now down to a maximum of a 50% to double a node (still a big improvement over Live)

It's disappointing that they've taken away one of the few things with the new system I was actually looking forward to, but not unexpected!

WiseSky · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

With the changes in 6.3.3, it's now down to a maximum of a 50% to double a node (still a big improvement over Live)

I bet this might tickle your fancy to harvest your 15K surreys

Rittings · February 2021

Nerfing players but giving hope again to bot farmers who sell gold on websites. Makes no sense why Zenimax are screwing themselves.

tmbrinks · February 2021

It's still a massive buff over current Live.

Rittings · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

It's still a massive buff over current Live.

It’s still not live... lol. More nerfs could arrive. I agree it’s better than what we currently have, and I’m thankful to that... but it really could have driven a huge knife to the heart of the bots.