Medium Armor Tank Meta...

caperb wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

WuChiWuGen wrote: »

The trouble with the tank meta's in PVP is simply they can't be killed and yet can kill easily.
When 12 can kill 60 the PVP game is totally broken.

It totally makes sense to go trolling tanky but to still be able to one shoot people is broken.
If heavy armor adds 33 percent more damage absorb it should reduce all damage by 33 percent.

Can you show me a tank build that combines excellent survival with the ability to one-shot people?

Arctic blast + malacath + random proc set combination

Mist form + malacath + vate + zaan

Sweeps + vampire ulti

Werewolf + alessian

Well, not all of these combinations one shot and they all need more sets/skills to be dangerous, but they add a lot of pressure and I think you will get the idea.

None of those 1-shot and the issue with those is not tanks but specific sets and playstyles (namely werewolf) being problematic.

This is the same as how there are characters possible with any other role that are able to do things they shouldn't because a specific item set is broken rather than the entire role (tank or dps) being broken.

This stuff (item sets and werewolves) is already being addressed with next patch.

Also sweeps plus vampire ultimate Is not even close to an example of this...

You asked for tank builds that still are able to kill people, I gave you them. Sweeps + vampire ulti is a perfect example of a combination used in builds that is very tanky and hard to kill though at the same time can sweep a player in 1 or 2 seconds, especially when using the templar stun from behind.

But I think you have come to the same conclusion as me: It is the sets that are the problem and not the role in general. Yet some blame PvP tank builds for PvE tank nerfs, which is not true at all. It is just that ZOS made it viable to have both very high damage mitigation abilities as well as damage dealing abilities in the same build because of items like malacath and insane proc sets. For people who not make such builds it looks like the tankiness is the problem and then they come on the forum asking for nerfs to tanks.

Zos has the possibility to avoid nerfing PvE tanks though, for example by not focusing the damage mitigation but by adjusting the damage dealt when certain standards are set. PvE tanks will still be viable while at the same time a PvP tank has to make a choice whether he wants more mitigation or more damage.

No...the problem is that ZOS refuses to use different skills and sets for PvP and PvE. The reason given is that they want people to just be able to jump into PvP wearing whatever...but the reality is, if I go into Cyrodiil on my PvE tank build, I will have a VERY difficult time killing anyone, and conversely, I will be rolled over by a ball group and killed within SECONDS as a solo player because the only heals I get are from myself with the healing changes. The other day I went into Cyro on my PvE tank solo without joining any type of group just to get the coffer for transmiutes...this is what happened:

1. go to wherever fighting is, trying to stay to the outskirts of the fight because I am playing solo on a build with 28k resistances and very mild damage output.
2. I might get a hit or two in on some player before a ball group rolls around the corner(they of course have at least one dedicated healer) and rolls right over me...I get a hard CC of some type, and before I can even break free I am dead because 10 other attacks have landed in that time.

Obviously in this example there are plenty of things I could do differently, I could join a group, I could run immovable pots, etc etc etc, but the real problem here is THAT YOU CANT JUST ROLL INTO PVP WITH A PVE BUILD AND BE EVEN MARGINALLY SUCCESSFUL. Taking that into consideration...why in the world would you NOT ban PvE skills and sets from PvP and vice versa? You have to have a specific build to PvP as it is and roll with PvP people...so its not a huge jump to separate the two entirely and be able to balance once side without nerfing/buffing the other.

I think I saw something about them trying to make it harder to choose between traits. Well fitted comes into play?

Stahlor wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

...so why you would nerf the most played Tank race (on the least played role: Tank) in the game is beyond me...

Maybe to give the second tanking race (Imperial) also a right to exist?

My Ice Warden Nord tank has been relegated to crafting only 3 months ago. These changes aren't going to help. I'd already started a Imp stamDK off tank and that is going to work out well it appears.

I admit I'm having to watch the Alcast vids to figure out all the upcoming changes.

I guess being a noob in an MMO is better than being a bored vet in a dying game. Been there too often over the years.

Stahlor wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

His cousin the imperial Tank got nerfed too lol

3% --> 6% cost reduction is a nerf?

more loosing the 333 health / stamina and magicka recovery every 4 seconds

when you out of stam or magicka, you will prefer the old regen to kick in... vs the extra 3% cost reduction

zvavi wrote: »

for comparison pts: (without block cost enchants, with 3 enchants it would be 447 block cost)
vet blocked swipes:

normal non blocked swipes:

stats:


live (3 block cost enchants):
vet blocked swipes (first one is under lady thorn, can be ignored):

normal non blocked swipes:
stats (roll dodge was 3430 on live if i am not mistaken):


conclusion:
same: mitigation without block, block costs
buffed: blocked damage
nerfed: dodge cost
probably would get more tanky in the pts with more cp invested in actual mitigation (tbf i only put cp into the 15% reduction from non player sources, and the single target attacks mitigation, everything else i put in max resources, and a bit weapon dmg for alkosh :tee hee:)

throughout gaining more cp on the pts, resource management and mitigation will get buffed as well (like the free roll dodge every 30 seconds, mitigation for dots, etc etc)

Very interesting!
22k resist are you rolling medium armor? Because that's what I'm playing with in my head to Tank with next patch.

I honestly do not see the roll dodge cost increase as an issue.

As a tank who doesn't see the red before it already has killed me (here's looking at you vSCP) due to high latency (240+) or get killed by it even though i'm no where near it (again looking at you vSCP).. I learnt where the red will appear on each encounter, and given most are heavily telegraphed, I just do the timewarp.

Hell, almost every single unblockable attack can be dealt with by just dancing the timewarp.

For those kids too young to understand what the timewarp is, It's just a jump to the left.. and then a step to the right.

The armor changes were poorly thought out.

They should have done the take inc magic dmg to medium (and added crit resist to med IMO).

Added a sort of maim stat to heavy. So pvp wise you have LA taking more phys damage, MA taking more mag damage and heavy taking a % less damage done per heavy piece. That would not effect tanking in PvE much, but would work to prevent HA damage builds in PvP. Tanks in PvP aren't the problem, as much as some hate them, tanks that do considerable damage are the problem.

The dodge rolling should either be much less or eliminated unless they are going to go in and take out any mechanic that requires dodge rolling in PvE. It's already hard enough to do the mini boss gryphons in vCR for some groups without setting up specific build just for that one fight to dodge roll the dot constantly. Problem is, they never go back and fix old content for these changes.

Will I still be able to tank? sure. But it's hard enough finding tanks without making the job more miserable IMO. I don't even enjoy it anymore, but my trials team needs good tanks so I'm dealing. But if I could, I'd quit tanking, they ruined what was my favorite role years ago.

EDIT: Also have to add, some (including devs) pointing out you can do 3/3/1 or different amounts of weights for armor now miss the fact that unless its a crafted set, you are stuck with heavy armor often for what the dropped tanking sets offer you. So If my group needs me to run Galenwe/Yoln for example, that's a full set of heavy and at most you can do a 1/1 L/M monster set like on live now.

Jaimeh wrote: »

The roll dodge change sucks... why do pve tanks have to suffer from the heavy meta in pvp and all the cyro tanks...

Yep they ruined it for you all. They are the most hated builds in PvP right now. One button spam.

wrong post